Trump in Helsinki: Did He Let Putin Eat His Lunch? Or Was This Just Recon?

[Fig]

Trump stated out front - low expectations.

He was looking for areas to agree. If that means getting Iran out of Syria that is good.

Who cruise misled Syria, put Iran in sanctions and smoked 200 Russian mercs?

Hint it wasn't Obama.

Putin said about nuthin' when Trump "smoked 200 Russian mercs". With the frenzy the left is in right now I'm sure they would start WWIII over it if those were our contractors...

 

[_Windrider_]

When it comes to politics and world affairs, Putin way outclasses trump. Putin is caniving and calculating. Trump is an idiot in International affairs and politics.

 

[Snuby642]

Maybe it's like-

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer?

They are both crafty at negotiating if nothing else.

 

[Veer_G]

It seems to escape everyone that they also met privately. The press conference could have been an attempt to let Vlad save face and keep his Bears out of our airspace.

 

[j-huskey]

It seems to escape everyone that they also met privately. The press conference could have been an attempt to let Vlad save face and keep his Bears out of our airspace.

Eventually it will become known to us. The private meeting.
'Sophocles said: hide nothing, for time, which sees all and hears all, exposes all.'
'Anon. Whatever happens in the dark always comes to light.'

 

[Snuby642]

In england i lived in the game keepers cottage at the end of the runway, outside the fence.
One day I stopped at the ice cream truck, in December and asked for an ice cream, it was parked near the runway.

The operator told me he didn't have any, I pressed him and he started to cry, no shit.
He asked me how I would feel if I were so far from home in a stupid ice cream truck hiding in the middle of a field.
He said he missed his wife and wish they would send him home.

The next day security, osi I think pulled me down on the carpet, told me to never speek to him again.
They said he only hears what they want him to hear.

 

[MarinePMI]

In england i lived in the game keepers cottage at the end of the runway, outside the fence.
One day I stopped at the ice cream truck, in December and asked for an ice cream, it was parked near the runway.

The operator told me he didn't have any, I pressed him and he started to cry, no shit.
He asked me how I would feel if I were so far from home in a stupid ice cream truck hiding in the middle of a field.
He said he missed his wife and wish they would send him home.

The next day security, osi I think pulled me down on the carpet, told me to never speek to him again.
They said he only hears what they want him to hear.

Help me out here...what are you talking about?

 

[Veer_G]

Help me out here...what are you talking about?

End of the runway? Ice cream truck? Must be some prime chiba growing in the hedge-rows of East Anglia.

 

[MarinePMI]

Maybe "normal for Norfolk" type shit?

 

[Snuby642]

Cold war diplomacy fb 111's, one way ticket to Moscow.
We let the commies hear and see what we wanted.

Looks like we still do.

 

[Veer_G]

Maybe "normal for Norfolk" type shit?

More like Lakenheath or Mildenhall.

 

[Veer_G]

More like Lakenheath or Mildenhall.

Okay, Lakenheath.

 

[Snuby642]

Mildenhall delivered personell and gear, lakenheath delivered cristmass packedges.
Just not enough fuel left with the big engines to get to a refuler after delivery.

Nothing the commies could do to stop them from thier apointed rounds.
We paraded cristmass packedges around the tarmac at times, to let them count.
Diplomacy old school.

 

[Veer_G]

Mildenhall delivered personell and gear, lakenheath delivered cristmass packedges.
Just not enough fuel left with the big engines to get to a refuler after delivery.

Nothing the commies could do to stop them from thier apointed rounds.
We paraded cristmass packedges around the tarmac at times, to let them count.
Diplomacy old school.

Having spent time under a roof in Beck Row, I know quite well. No ice cream trucks, though.

 

[Snuby642]

1 fond memory from Lakenheath.
Was sitting on tamack weapon pointed at a no lone zone smoking a Marlboro.
Sec controll pulls up and asked wtf why are you not in your fox hole.

Pionted out the Christmas packedge laying on the tarmack, protacal.
It had bounced off a trailer and everyone ran except me, no coms.

You can't outrun that shit, or forget it.

 

[Veer_G]

The Aardvark was a complicated animal.

 

[lash]

Maybe it's like-

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer?

They are both crafty at negotiating if nothing else.

This.

Maybe you all have forgotten that this is one of DT's primary principles. Most have.

 

[FS1]

I think it was a swarm of F-111's that put one in Gaddafi's tent.

 

[srtsam]

Trump is always a no win situation. If he went there acting and talking tough the same talking heads would instead be saying how reckless he was and he's trying to get us in a war ...blah blah blah..... So either way it does't matter. The swamp is always the swamp.

 

[Limedust]

Oh, please. He's an incompetent dupe who does his best to obscure every fuck-up with bluster, law-suits, and the interference of his increasingly ineffective staff. At the very, very least, his behavior was pathetic, weak, and demonstrated zero concern for the interests of this country.

 

[jcm331]

Oh, please. He's an incompetent dupe who does his best to obscure every fuck-up with bluster, law-suits, and the interference of his increasingly ineffective staff. At the very, very least, his behavior was pathetic, weak, and demonstrated zero concern for the interests of this country.

What exactly did the Russians do that trump was supposed be so tough on? Hacking the dnc server? buying some face book ads? That shit happens everyday. Please, I'm sick and tired of all the Russian blaming. There are issues that we need to be hard on them for but to categorize them as the enemy in facet is dumb.

 

[Dewey7271]

Oh, please. He's an incompetent dupe who does his best to obscure every fuck-up with bluster, law-suits, and the interference of his increasingly ineffective staff. At the very, very least, his behavior was pathetic, weak, and demonstrated zero concern for the interests of this country.

Really?
Would that be the "intelligence interests" that asshole Brennan was all freaked out about?
Or the other Washington interests that are sooo loyal to their commander in chief? (Sarcasm)
Yep, he's a fuckup. You bet.
Let's see. Great tax law. (If you don't feel that way, fine but you need to retake Econ 101)
Repeal of the individual mandate. A tax or penalty especially heinous on the self-employed.
At least got rocket boy to the table. No predecessors did that for all their bullshit and swagger. And damn, they were supposed to be smart. Guess Trump is just lucky for a dupe.
Bolstering defense. Yeah ,that's bad.
ISIS about wiped out. (Obama's "drone war"having proven so effective, lol)
Took his military commanders advice and dropped a big fuckin bomb.
Shit, I could fill up the page.
You just keep on believing he and the party are idiots and dupes. Denial is what occurs just before you get your ass kicked at the polls this fall.

Go on back to your MSNBC or CNN or network news.

 

[Limedust]

What exactly did the Russians do that trump was supposed be so tough on? Hacking the dnc server? buying some face book ads? That shit happens everyday. Please, I'm sick and tired of all the Russian blaming. There are issues that we need to be hard on them for but to categorize them as the enemy in facet is dumb.

Those two are a good start. He might also have brought up murdering journalists on foreign soil, invading sovereign nations and annexing territory (just like our last president should have done), hell, even the pipeline he criticized late last week.

Additionally, if he didn't want to shit in Putin's bed, he might have discussed something of mutual benefit, something tangible and concrete, and let people know about. All we have right now is "the U.S. was stupid and let's be friends." Not good enough.

 

[Limedust]

Really?
Would that be the "intelligence interests" that asshole Brennan was all freaked out about?
Or the other Washington interests that are sooo loyal to their commander in chief? (Sarcasm)
Yep, he's a fuckup. You bet.
Let's see. Great tax law. (If you don't feel that way, fine but you need to retake Econ 101)
Repeal of the individual mandate. A tax or penalty especially heinous on the self-employed.
At least got rocket boy to the table. No predecessors did that for all their bullshit and swagger. And damn, they were supposed to be smart. Guess Trump is just lucky for a dupe.
Bolstering defense. Yeah ,that's bad.
ISIS about wiped out. (Obama's "drone war"having proven so effective, lol)
Took his military commanders advice and dropped a big fuckin bomb.
Shit, I could fill up the page.
You just keep on believing he and the party are idiots and dupes. Denial is what occurs just before you get your ass kicked at the polls this fall.

Go on back to your MSNBC or CNN or network news.

Nah. I'll stick around ... and keep watching the ten of you here with revolution on your minds and the wool over your eyes make excuses for a fellow that doesn't deserve your support nearly as often as you think he does.

 

[Dewey7271]

I seem to have taken your first post on this wrong. Sorry.

 

[BadDogPSD]

David Brooks writes:

When C.S. Lewis was a boy, his mother died. “With my mother’s death,” he wrote, “all settled happiness, all that was tranquil and reliable, disappeared from my life. There was to be much fun, many pleasures, many stabs of Joy; but no more of the old security. It was sea and islands now; the great continent had sunk like Atlantis.”

It may seem melodramatic, but that passage comes to mind when I think of the death of America’s relationship with Europe, and Donald Trump’s betrayal Monday of the democratic values that were the basis for that relationship.

Europe is America’s mother continent. Our foundational institutions were inherited from Europe. Our democracy is Greek and British. Our universities are German. The etiquette book George Washington read to improve himself was translated from French, and so were Thomas Jefferson’s ideals.

Europe represented a path to progress; America saw itself embracing that path and surpassing it. After the revolution, as the historian Joseph Ellis has written, Americans were sure a new generation of Shakespeares, Dantes and Ciceros would arise on North American soil.

As a young adult nation, we took what Europe had and started democratizing it for our own purposes. The luxury hotel is a European palace turned into a commercial enterprise. Frederick Law Olmsted visited England in 1850, marveled at the gardens of the aristocracy, came back to America and turned what he saw into great public parks — Central Park, the U.S. Capitol grounds and many more.

Then as a mature nation, we became our parent’s partner. After World War II, a reforged, American-led West stabilized itself. There were fights and rivalries, but underneath, there was an unspoken awareness — these are our kin.

This trans-Atlantic partnership was a vast historical accomplishment, a stumbling and imperfect effort to extend democracy, extend rights, extend freedom and build a world ordered by justice and not force. Since 1945 it is the thing we have all taken for granted.

Over the weekend, Trump ripped the partnership to threads. He said the European Union is our “foe.” On Monday, Trump essentially sided with Vladimir Putin, who has become the biggest moral and political enemy of the Euro-American relationship. Trump essentially dropped a project that has oriented American culture and policy for centuries. He pointed us to a world in which the central ethos is that might makes right.

But remember, Donald Trump exists only to put a capstone on every poisonous trend that preceded him. It took many hands to kill the Euro-American bond.

Right-wing politicians and commentators began to use Europe as a stand-in for American liberals. It’s a bunch of godless socialists, just like those heretics in Berkeley and Cambridge. Euro-bashing became a unifying conservative trope.

Progressives fell into the poisonous trap of racialism. They looked at the glories of Aristotle, Shakespeare and Mozart, and the most interesting thing they had to say about them was that they were dead white males. Future historians will marvel at how sophisticated people willfully made themselves so simple-minded. Eurocentrism became a code word for colonialism, oppression and privilege, taking a piece of European history for the whole of it.

Europeans didn’t help. In the wake of the Cold War, they have dedicated themselves to a post-nationalist project that is too top-down and technocratic and is now crumbling.

The Euro-American political project is now nearing end times. George W. Bush feuded with Europe over the Iraq war. Barack Obama pivoted away. Now, as Robert Kagan writes in The Washington Post, Trump is taking a sledgehammer to the Atlantic alliance.

Trump could have gone to last week’s NATO summit and taken credit only for increased European military spending. Instead, he moved the goal posts, humiliated the Europeans, reasserted his trade war talk and made it impossible for European leaders to do anything that might seem to support him. These are the actions of a man who wants the alliance to fail.

His embrace of Putin Monday was a victory dance on the Euro-American tomb.

“This is not just another family quarrel,” Kagan writes. “The democratic alliance that has been the bedrock of the American-led liberal world order is unraveling. At some point, and probably sooner than we expect, the global peace that that alliance and that order undergirded will unravel, too. Despite our human desire to hope for the best, things will not be okay.”

Kagan was writing before Monday’s press conference, and now his core point is doubly true. If you thought we could ride the Trump storm and then return to normal, you can surely see now this view is mistaken. The fundamental arrangements of our world are being remade.

Today, Europe and America face common perils and common problems — including the rise of ravenous strongmen who want to remake the world order. We’ve lost the bonds that might enable us to fight them together. Worse, the wolves are not only in the henhouse; they are in the Executive Mansion.

Beware what happens when you walk away from your lineage.

Really? The USA has done a horrible job managing trade. Part of me thinks much of this was done on purpose under the guise of propping up weaker nations. Perhaps it was to weaken the U.S..
Trump recognizes problems and fixes them. If someone gets butt-hurt, too fuckin bad.
I think the whole Russian election meddling story is a big smoke screen from the DNC propagated by the media.
Russia is not our enemy. Nor is it our ally. I agree with Trump that it makes more sense to have a good working relationship with Russia.

 

[pmclaine]

Nah. I'll stick around ... and keep watching the ten of you here with revolution on your minds and the wool over your eyes make excuses for a fellow that doesn't deserve your support nearly as often as you think he does.

And do tell who got your support.

I'm taking it you voted Hillary.

Please do explain away the scandal surrounding her?

Everyone use Gmail......

 

[Limedust]

This.

Maybe you all have forgotten that this is one of DT's primary principles. Most have.

And do tell who got your support.

I'm taking it you voted Hillary.

Please do explain away the scandal surrounding her?

Everyone use Gmail......

I registered no party and didn't vote in the last election, not that it matters. I make no excuses for our current president, past ones, or anyone else. Now is the subject at hand the one at hand, or shall we dig up other irrelevancies?

 

[pmclaine]

I registered no party and didn't vote in the last election, not that it matters. I make no excuses for our current president, past ones, or anyone else. Now is the subject at hand the one at hand, or shall we dig up other irrelevancies?

If you failed to vote than why register any displeasure now.

You got what you voted for.

Any chance Limedust is Limey?

 

[j-huskey]

Now is the subject at hand the one at hand, or shall we dig up other irrelevancies?

The subject in my hand is my ....., its relevancy is to remove waste.... , for fun, and to procreate. I didnt vote to get it, I was born with it... just sayin.

Some people think big P is a ..... , hes laid waste to a lot of peoples lives in the Rodina. Hes relevant in that he can be very dangerous. Untreated clap can be dangerous to ......s. His being voted in is questionable.

Several people here on the board think DT is a ......., hes supposed to remove a bunch of waste in the big swamp. He was voted in to be a ...... and drain the swamp... hes the ...... the American people have in their hand to remove waste. And create the new life he promised in MAGA.

Some people don't like to swallow ...... , but end up doing it anyway, and they mostly hate .......

One ........ is just like any other in function. Some are just packaged a little different. Your ...... isn't better than X's ..... .

Whether u voted for him or not, u got him, hes your ...... to drain the waste, to perform a relevant function....

All things are relevant, but irrelevant, but relevant. Time will tell who got their ...... slammed in the big P/DT meeting, everyone will see eventually.

Don't be a ......., be relevant, try to make a difference.

 

[Snipe260]

If you failed to vote than why register any displeasure now.

You got what you voted for.

Any chance Limedust is Limey?

I know man! Where are these fuckin people coming from?

 

[Limedust]

The subject in my hand is my ....., its relevancy is to remove waste.... , for fun, and to procreate. I didnt vote to get it, I was born with it... just sayin.

Some people think big P is a ..... , hes laid waste to a lot of peoples lives in the Rodina. Hes relevant in that he can be very dangerous. Untreated clap can be dangerous to ......s. His being voted in is questionable.

Several people here on the board think DT is a ......., hes supposed to remove a bunch of waste in the big swamp. He was voted in to be a ...... and drain the swamp... hes the ...... the American people have in their hand to remove waste. And create the new life he promised in MAGA.

Some people don't like to swallow ...... , but end up doing it anyway, and they mostly hate .......

One ........ is just like any other in function. Some are just packaged a little different. Your ...... isn't better than X's ..... .

Whether u voted for him or not, u got him, hes your ...... to drain the waste, to perform a relevant function....

All things are relevant, but irrelevant, but relevant. Time will tell who got their ...... slammed in the big P/DT meeting, everyone will see eventually.

Don't be a ......., be relevant, try to make a difference.

Like a prose poem ... I like it.

Some think POTUS did a good job in Helsinki, for various reasons. I don’t agree, for reasons already stated.

 

[DuneBoer]

Whatevs. We need Russia when we finally go to war with China.

 

[Snuby642]

War with china or Russia.
Here or there at least our troops can have some booze and eat bacon without offending some indigenous peoples.

That would be rude. Lol

 

[sharac]

Crimea = Kosovo

For the rest all is fair game in the grand theater of absurd (international politics) though having your brains washed clean is no excuse as there is enough unbiased information for those of average intellect and will to educate themselves...

I think DT and Putin are on the same side of the war that is being fought against people of this Earth by some elites who would prefer world order much alike "Hunger games" districs. Question is who is on their side and if enough those who matter are - it remains to be seen.


PS: You might start with this site http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_...ng-classified-house-testimony-bureau-bos.html a lot of serious analysis and info.

 

[Snipe260]

Crimea = Kosovo

For the rest all is fair game in the grand theater of absurd (international politics) though having your brains washed clean is no excuse as there is enough unbiased information for those of average intellect and will to educate themselves...

I think DT and Putin are on the same side of the war that is being fought against people of this Earth by some elites who would prefer world order much alike "Hunger games" districs. Question is who is on their side and if enough those who matter are - it remains to be seen.


PS: You might start with this site http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_...ng-classified-house-testimony-bureau-bos.html a lot of serious analysis and info.

Very interesting!

 

[pmclaine]

Trump never does well when he goes on the defensive, and the Communists only work themselves into a more violent fervor when they smell weakness.

Take a page from Alinsky and attack your antagonizers, they don't know how to handle it.

I saw honesty in the press conference.

Both admitted that they are concerned with the interests of their respective countries. Where they have common interests they will cooperate where their interests diverge they will compete. Is that a fucking revelation?

Why should Trump trust his intel services? I hope there are mid level Patriots but a lot of the top is in the mold of Rod Weaselstein. All he should say is did you see Sztrocks testimony.

Regards the hacking Trump needs to point out if you don't want to get hacked don't be a dipshit. Podesta opening up phishing attacks, Clinto's server, the Awan brothers, the fact you are a paranoid Commnist Party committing high crimes and treason so you can't let investigators check your systems and you open yourself to all sorts of blackmail when a foreign agency gets in your system.

Would China be the hacker?

I'm sure they are trying to hack even my PC. Thought last week they had me dead to rights caught spanking it to Redtube ready to expose me unless I forwarded $1200 in Bitcoin.

Obama yesterday, in South Africa of all places, saying anything Trump says is a lie. He is shitting his pants and has an equally tainted team trying to keep their necks out of the noose. Regards SA will there be new sanctions when Orania gets over run. That will be coming to head soon now that Orania is adopting its own currency.

Now let's invent this BS about the NRA lobbyist. Hello have you seen the Clinton Foundation. The fact it stopped functioning after she lost the election is a fucking clue.

Mueller requesting all his witnesses be kept secret or granted immunity? Talk about Stalinist. I'm sure he will find people to say whatever he wants.

I'm not sure how much will come from Lisa Page. I kind of thought she was the more biased of the two and DumbSztrock was just trying to get some ass.

Trump needs to attack, every day attack.

Fuck em.

 

[MarinePMI]

Oh, please. He's an incompetent dupe who does his best to obscure every fuck-up with bluster, law-suits, and the interference of his increasingly ineffective staff. At the very, very least, his behavior was pathetic, weak, and demonstrated zero concern for the interests of this country.

"The greatest trick the devil ever played, was convincing the world that he didn't exist." (Not that I think DT is the devil mind you, only that bluster is often a very effective cover.)

 

[FS1]

Obama and Hillary were not the Devil...They just work for him. Someone on this site once said its not evil just Politics. Well I disagree, I think they are doers of evil and they know it and take pride in it.

 

[pmclaine]

Saw Rep Loudermilk mention that interference in our elections is par for the course and we do it too.

He mentioned Ted Kennedys letter to Andropov asking him to interfere in the Carter/Reagan election and help the Dems (him?) win.

Funny how that high treason never gets denied or talked about.

 

[Fig]

So true. The left loved Russia when it was communist. They would love it still if not for the invented story behind the coup attempt.

 

[Veer_G]

So true. The left loved Russia when it was communist. They would love it still if not for the invented story behind the coup attempt.

Reading between, and on the lines here, I think that some of us missed the memo regarding Russia's gradual change from Communism to a neo-Tsarist oligarchy.

 

[pmclaine]

Reading between, and on the lines here, I think that some of us missed the memo regarding Russia's gradual change from Communism to a neo-Tsarist oligarchy.

Which probably could have been avoided had Clinton one done something in Russia when the CCCP fell instead of going to his kitchen for blow jobs.

Truth be told Clinton was upset Communism failed.

We wasted 50 years of Cold War when the opportunity came to transition The CCCP to Russia.

I hate nation building but a Marshall plan for Moscow could have prevented strong man oligarchy.

 

[Fig]

Reading between, and on the lines here, I think that some of us missed the memo regarding Russia's gradual change from Communism to a neo-Tsarist oligarchy.

That's very true, but I think the media and a lot of people can be forgiven for that seeing as how Russian communism, in practice, wasn't far off from a Tsarist oligarchy since it's inception. It was only a question of who the oligarchs would be. The ideologically pure and fervent communists under the old régime, or the capitalist cowboys who seized the initiative after it's fall. The insiders (like Putin) are/were the Russian deep state who seize the controls as soon as the Russian people got tried of being taken advantage of by criminals.

Some places have a culture that almost demands Strong-Man leadership. I think Russian culture is coarser and more suited to monarchy than republicanism. There's a reason it has been the dominant form of government throughout the ages. It isn't by any means superior, but it is stable, and has it's advantages...

 

[pmclaine]

That's very true, but I think the media and a lot of people can be forgiven for that seeing as how Russian communism, in practice, wasn't far off from a Tsarist oligarchy since it's inception. It was only a question of who the oligarchs would be. The ideologically pure and fervent communists under the old régime, or the capitalist cowboys who seized the initiative after it's fall. The insiders (like Putin) are/were the Russian deep state who seize the controls as soon as the Russian people got tried of being taken advantage of by criminals.

Some places have a culture that almost demands Strong-Man leadership. I think Russian culture is coarser and more suited to monarchy than republicanism. There's a reason it has been the dominant form of government throughout the ages. It isn't by any means superior, but it is stable, and has it's advantages...

The Russian psyche goes back strongly to Mongol invaders ruling their lands from their seat of power in Crimea.

They paid felty to their mongol overlords for hundreds of years and developed a distrust and culture of secrecy that continues today.

We have no clue of the mentality some of these long in the tooth countries carry for psychological baggage.

Mongols, Poles, Vikings, Germans everyone has tapped Russian ass but to the Russky credit they pull their pants up, dust themselves off, and end up skull fucking their former violators because they love their country and common experience.

I don't love the Russians, I respect them as survivors, and I think right now, there is more we could have in common than not.

 

[Snipe260]

Question? How did Russia interfere with the election? Did there officials call anyone here to change there vote? What could they do to change the outcome? Serious question!

 

[pmclaine]

Question? How did Russia interfere with the election? Did there officials call anyone here to change there vote? What could they do to change the outcome? Serious question!

Actually if you want to talk vote changing we should ask what the Obama machine was doing in Georgia and why was the Jill Stein recount stopped to avoid evidence of Democrat ballot stuffing in Detroit?

The Russians posted BS. Same could be said for anything I post online.

Perhaps the Russians or some other actor hacked the comical DNC/Clinton MIS system.

Let's ask who disadvantaged their political opponent by never giving them a chance to actually run in the Primary with the ability to win. That party predetermined who their candidate would be.

I'd suggest a class action law suit against the DNC by Bernie voters.

 

[pmclaine]

Question? How did Russia interfere with the election? Did there officials call anyone here to change there vote? What could they do to change the outcome? Serious question!

Short answer.

They did nothing we don't try to do.

 

[Snuby642]

Clinton and oboma got elected, goes to prove some people are to stupid to govern themselves.

 

[Snipe260]

Clinton and oboma got elected, goes to prove some people are to stupid to govern themselves.

Yes, half the people are dumbasses!