Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

[mstennes]

Just when I think I have my mind made up I read something on the other, and I change directions. Heres what I'm looking for a 18" barrel, it will be shot out to 800 yards max (maybe a little more)but basicly I'm looking for 500-800 yards. Whats the pros and cons of each? Will run suppressed once in a while, more if I dont have to go to Idaho. My main targets are coyotes, ground hogs, and targets on my range. I use my MK12Mod0 for 100-500, but want to get away from my bolt gun for longer shots, as my SPR has converted me to a semi format.

 

[George63]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

I have an 18" OBR, it is an accurate battle rifle with perfect reliability, but for ground hogs beyond 200yds and coyotes beyond 400, I would still go bolt gun, they are both considered varmints but to go to a rifle that would lessen the consistency of a clean kill is not preferred.

 

[Oakland Tactical]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

With what George said you can add a 260 or a 243 barrel and make a LMT MWS be a viable varmint gun. The OBR would be stuck on one barrel and round. The top rail on the OBR I think is joined by some adhesive to make it more like a monolithic. This is great but much harder if you wanted to change barrels and a lot more expensive if you wanted an additional upper.

You can change out your LMT barrels faster than you can change underware once you get them.

 

[mstennes]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

What does the LMT give up in accuracy though?

 

[mstennes]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: George63</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have an 18" OBR, it is an accurate battle rifle with perfect reliability, but for ground hogs beyond 200yds and coyotes beyond 400, I would still go bolt gun, they are both considered varmints but to go to a rifle that would lessen the consistency of a clean kill is not preferred. </div></div>
\I have actually used my 308 bolt gun, I also wanted it for longer ranger target shooting, I have had a number of accurized bolt guns, also the same with AR's, but never a 308, so I decided I can get one but not both.

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

GAP ar10, flounder builds some great gas guns.

 

[ORD]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">GAP ar10, flounder builds some great gas guns. </div></div>

+1 on this! For the money you pay for the rifle you get (<$3k fully equipped), you will not equal a GAP custom with any factory production rifle!

 

[hydro556]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

I have only been able to put about 60 rounds through my 16" OBR. The first 5 shot group I fired was about .75" and it has not shot any bigger.

Was ringing my 45% IPSC swinger at 300 with the exact same dope I use on my 20" APA bolt gun.

I bought the OBR to see if it was really as accurate as everyone seems to indicate. And if it turned out to be, I was going to sell my LR bolt gun. It is turning out to be, and the APA is going to be sold. As much as I love it, (nicest rifle I have ever seen) if I can get quality bolt gun results with a semi I would rather have a semi.

The OBR seems to be as accurate as everyone says through my preliminary results. It should only get better with practice and load development. I didnt know I could shoot a semi like this.

 

[Strangedays]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

You could buy the OBR and start posts like the one below.
And he wonders why we call them his fan boys.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=1153081

 

[mstennes]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: strangedays</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You could buy the OBR and start posts like the one below.
And he wonders why we call them his fan boys.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=1153081 </div></div>

LOL, no when I need serious answer, I realized this is the place to go! ARFCOM is good for some things, but as of late only really the ammo forum is worth a damn, to many trolls, fanboys and other types. I'm serious here as to which way to go, the LMT comes in a little cheaper with some extras the OBR does not have, and it has a huge pro with barrel changes. What does it give up in accuracy though?

 

[hydro556]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

I think if the barrel changes are a big deal to you, then the LMT is the choice.

I dont have one but a good friend does and he loves it. The barrel changes are more important to him than real tight accuracy. Every LMT product I have owned has been well built and shot well. They are pricey, but good quality in my opinion.

 

[Anchor Zero Six]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

LMT is frigging heavy thats what you are giving up.

I dont think accuracy is going to be too far apart with either.

MWS allows really easy barrel change, did I mention its heavy?

Last group I shot with my LMT was right at 1" and I can make excuses all day but the sun was almost down so I could barly see the damn target and I was shooting off an improvised rest since I forgot my bipod. 1" (5rnds) at 100 yds from a 13.5" CL barrel at 2410 FPS (175smk handloads).

Before chopping (when it was 16") the same load would yield .5 average groups. Think the shorty can do the same just need to spend some time at the range with it.

 

[mstennes]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hydro556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think if the barrel changes are a big deal to you, then the LMT is the choice.

I dont have one but a good friend does and he loves it. The barrel changes are more important to him than real tight accuracy. Every LMT product I have owned has been well built and shot well. They are pricey, but good quality in my opinion. </div></div>
I like the barrel change option, but from what I have learned here is it's heavy and I think the 18" is the way to go. I have a MRP now and I like the quick change for going 18" 556 to 16" 6.8. But I doubt I would change much on barrel lengths. How much heavier is it? Once one goes SS with LMT the OBR is pretty close in price until I add a LMT SOPMOD stock.

 

[Anchor Zero Six]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

Oops posted twice.

 

[Anchor Zero Six]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

9.2 lbs as it sits. Hard road to get it down to that, CTR, MIAD, Plastic Buis, 13.5" barrel and dimpling.

Its neat and fun but I cant say I would suggest doing this vice getting a POF or even a KAC.

 

[mstennes]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Anchor Zero Six</div><div class="ubbcode-body">9.2 lbs as it sits. Hard road to get it down to that, CTR, MIAD, Plastic Buis, 13.5" barrel and dimpling.

Its neat and fun but I cant say I would suggest doing this vice getting a POF or even a KAC.

</div></div>
My problem with KAC is their so damn spendy, and AR based rifles are supposed to be Di have a LWRC piston and yes it's a great rifle, I just don't care for piston AR's if you want a piston get a AK, FAL or SCAR. So I'm back to LMT or the OBR

 

[Anchor Zero Six]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

Only reason I mentioned POF was weight and accuracy, two things the KAC also has in its favor but yes you end up paying dearly for it.

 

[JerkeeJoe]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

There should be a sticky dealing with "LMT vs. OBR vs. REPR vs. POF" that links to the 500 threads that have already dealt with this. Not to be an ass to the OP or anything.

I have an OBR that I really like a lot. That's not to say I wouldn't love the LMT if I had it. Both shoot really nicely. I like the OBR handguard, but I like the LMT barrel changeability. The OBR also comes with a Geiselle trigger and a switchblock which are nice touches. Shoot them both and then decide which you like better.

 

[mstennes]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

Well as it stands now, my local dealer can get me a LMT for 3363.00 out the door and a 8-10 week wait, oh well, I do like the idea of putting in a 16" barrel if I want to down size.

 

[mstennes]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JerkeeJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There should be a sticky dealing with "LMT vs. OBR vs. REPR vs. POF" that links to the 500 threads that have already dealt with this. Not to be an ass to the OP or anything.

I have an OBR that I really like a lot. That's not to say I wouldn't love the LMT if I had it. Both shoot really nicely. I like the OBR handguard, but I like the LMT barrel changeability. The OBR also comes with a Geiselle trigger and a switchblock which are nice touches. <span style="color: #FF0000">Shoot them both and then decide which you like better</span>. </div></div>

Wish I could, but no one around here has a OBR

 

[TheTrauma]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

LMT

 

[Anchor Zero Six]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

Where you at in Washington? Dealers here have them in stock less than that.

PM me

 

[mstennes]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Anchor Zero Six</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where you at in Washington? Dealers here have them in stock less than that.

PM me </div></div>
Done, Thanks!
Mike

 

[Strangedays]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

I don't see why a barrel change would be a deciding factor on any of these rifles. With basic tools any of them can have their barrel changed out.

 

[mstennes]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: strangedays</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't see why a barrel change would be a deciding factor on any of these rifles. With basic tools any of them can have their barrel changed out. </div></div>
With the OBR having its rail "glued" to the upper, wouldnt that make it pretty hard to remove?

 

[Prairie Dog Dundee]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

I have the CL 16" LMT MWS and am happy with the accuracy.

Top photo; yellow target 500 yards and measures 3.75", white steel 300 yards rapid fire, paper target 100 yards and averaged .75" with the uncalled flyer and just over .5" without it. Second photo 700 yards and measures 7.5" and a 1-4 SS HD scope was used on 4X. Third target is 800 yards again with the 4X scope I was testing. Bottom target is a close up of the paper target in the top photo. Ammo was either the load shown on the paper target or M118LR.

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[Anchor Zero Six]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

OBR is glued? Really? Because it lookes like the top rail which is interchangable attaches the FF tube and the upper. The FF tube looks to be bolted to a flange machined into the front of the upper.

A bit different and prprietary but dosnt look like its glued on.

 

[phxfa]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

its not glued,WTF? Ive had mine off with the forend to change out the flashider to a brake with no problems

 

[mstennes]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tom Olson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">its not glued,WTF? Ive had mine off with the forend to change out the flashider to a brake with no problems </div></div>
I swaer they say its glued

 

[rwest309]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

Glued. Really. What're the four bolts for? Have you ever seen an obr. Fuck me. Glued. The internetz sez so.

 

[Oakland Tactical]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rwest</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Glued. Really. What're the four bolts for? Have you ever seen an obr. Fuck me. Glued. The internetz sez so. </div></div>

No this was stated in a gun rag test, Ill try to look up the source. I would think that the auther would have talked to Larue about the rifle before he wrote this.

I think it is some sort of adhesive that helps unify the upper <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">in addition </span></span>to the primary bolts. The purpose was to stiffen up the upper.

This was one of the reasons I did not buy the OBR I had on order. Im sure you can take it apart, but I was concerned that it would not go back 100% the way it came from the factory. This could have changed since the test or never made it in production.

 

[Oakland Tactical]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

There it was, right by my throne.

"Once torqued and <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">chemically bonded </span></span></span>into place the rail provides an anchor that runs the length of the upper receiver and handguard"

Tom Beckstrand, Special Weapons for Military & Police, April 2010

So for those that took their uppers apart you either screwed up the bond or got screwed by not having the bond that was supposed to do the magic according to the article.

My thought on this is if you have to bond an upper to make it like a monolithic just buy a monolithic.

 

[maggitas]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

Hard to go wrong with either rifle, but for that price i would consider the New GAP AR-10. Scheyer has an LMT with SS barrel for a good price. Scroll down halfway down for the LMT.

http://www.schryvergunsales.com/

 

[AK10mm]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Re25</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There it was, right by my throne.

"Once torqued and <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">chemically bonded </span></span></span>into place the rail provides an anchor that runs the length of the upper receiver and handguard"

Tom Beckstrand, Special Weapons for Military & Police, April 2010

So for those that took their uppers apart you either screwed up the bond or got screwed by not having the bond that was supposed to do the magic according to the article.

My thought on this is if you have to bond an upper to make it like a monolithic just buy a monolithic. </div></div>

Hmmmm.....Looks like mstennes deserves an apology from those who flamed him."chemically bonded" must be PC for "Glued" in the Gun World.

 

[jason8251]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

I thought they were "chemically bonded" as well. Makes me wonder why go through all the trouble of stiffening through bonding and not just make a monolithic upper and be done with it.

 

[limamike56]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

LMT.

 

[Oakland Tactical]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jason8251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought they were "chemically bonded" as well. Makes me wonder why go through all the trouble of stiffening through bonding and not just make a monolithic upper and be done with it. </div></div>

It was in case you dammaged any of the components you could replace them. Sort of a good idea exept you would either have to know how to chemically bond them back or send it to Larue.

I also asked the question does this require a jig to get it right? The top rail is thin and if off a little either bends to conform or holds the front HG off. This has been a problem for some when installing the PRI rail and PEQ rail when the upper receiver is a little off.

It does not mean that the OBR is a bad design if everythings right. Most people will never shoot out their barrel. I dont think there is an argument that they are very accurate rifles.

 

[phxfa]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

the only glue/adhesive/bonding agent or whatever they're fuking talking about anywhere near my rail are on the screw threads that hold the rail in place,,,OH NO! my gun is junk, firesale!

 

[Oakland Tactical]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

Ill take it for $1500

 

[angelballer]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

Could it possibly be Loc-tite on the threads that they are talking about?

 

[mstennes]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

Here is what I came up with,
OBR
1. Giessel Trigger
2. Two magazines
3. 2,999.00
4. 3,439.00 with OBR scope mount and SOPMOD stock.

LMT MWS
1. Quick change barrel
2. BUIS
3. 3360.00
4. 3500.00+ with a scope mount/rings

Now there is a good argument for the MWS, with the introduction of 260, and 6.5 but thos will just increse costs yet again, and your really only going to use one anyway. You can get a Rock 5R barrel, for the MWS, from what I have turned up, whereas the OBR is LW, but nothing wrong there either, so I'm back to the list.

 

[angelballer]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

You can get a CL MWS on GB for < $2400. Add a 20" SS barrel in a caliber of choice for another $700 or less from a site sponsor and you have two barrels for only $100 dollars more than the initial cost of an OBR. I am not sure why you would pay $3360 for one. Lin Schryver had a CL listed here for $2500 not too long ago as well.

 

[Prairie Dog Dundee]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: angelballer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can get a CL MWS on GB for < $2400. Add a 20" SS barrel in a caliber of choice for another $700 or less from a site sponsor and you have two barrels for only $100 dollars more than the initial cost of an OBR. I am not sure why you would pay $3360 for one. Lin Schryver had a CL listed here for $2500 not too long ago as well. </div></div>

This is the smart way to go. The pictures I posted above were fired with the CL. It exceeded my expectations and I will be getting at least one more barrel, in 260. If I like it I'll look into a .243. Since I got this rifle my other firearms are gathering dust.

 

[mstennes]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: angelballer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can get a CL MWS on GB for < $2400. Add a 20" SS barrel in a caliber of choice for another $700 or less from a site sponsor and you have two barrels for only $100 dollars more than the initial cost of an OBR. <span style="color: #FF0000">I am not sure why you would pay $3360 for one</span>. Lin Schryver had a CL listed here for $2500 not too long ago as well. </div></div>

It was the price quoted me from Rainier Arms, I know very high, but that was out the door for a 18" stainless, their CL 16" is 2800.00. But you still forgot that the OBR has a Giessel trigger, and my price includes the OBR scope mount.

 

[angelballer]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

That is still full retail. I purchased a CL MWS, Geissele SD-E, and a Magpul PRS stock for what Rainier are asking for just the CL MWS. If you don't want to pay the premium for the PRS, you can get something cheaper and then use the money towards an American Defense/Bobro mount.

If you want to pay Rainier's price feel free but at least shop around. The cost of the trigger can easily be covered by looking for a better deal.

 

[Prairie Dog Dundee]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

I paid $2,375.00 for mine. The trigger on the LMT is not at all bad. It is way better the the target trigger on my RRA varminter. Maybe not up to Geissele standards but it is very good.

 

[mstennes]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: angelballer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That is still full retail. I purchased a CL MWS, Geissele SD-E, and a Magpul PRS stock for what Rainier are asking for just the CL MWS. If you don't want to pay the premium for the PRS, you can get something cheaper and then use the money towards an American Defense/Bobro mount.

If you want to pay Rainier's price feel free but at least shop around. The cost of the trigger can easily be covered by looking for a better deal. </div></div>

No I agree, its time to shop around, I just cant justify their price, when its cheaper else where.

 

[Oakland Tactical]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

POF: 9.04 pounds (with magazine?)
Larue OBR: 9.7 pounds (weight with Larue Mag)
LMT MWS: 9.9 pounds (weight with KAC mag)
LWRCI REPR: 9.5 pounds (with magazine ?)

All weights taken from each manufacturers website. The POF is the weight winner but I just dont get why the LMT is always called a pig for being ~3oz. heavier. The weight is in the barrel which makes it a bit slower on target than the REPR or the POF.

My rifle with a NF 2.5-10x32 scope, NF mount, magpul 20 round mag and factory sling weights 12.5 pounds. The OBR as shown on their website (OBR mount,Mark 4 scope) is 14.00 pounds. But it has a really heavy Harris bipod on it and no sling.

 

[rwest309]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

The screws may have loctite on them but I promise you the hand guard is not glued to Jack shit. That is retarded. I have seen some gun rag bs before but that takes the cake.

 

[Oakland Tactical]

Re: Trying to decide on either a OBR or LMT

To those who own the OBR, how many screws the top rail to the receiver and the handgurd? Is it like the POF?