Rifle Scopes Trying to decide on the right scope for a DMR/SPR

[DDFan86]

Hi! New member to the forum and first time posting. Trying to figure out the right optic for my Daniel Defense V7 Pro. It has an 18” heavy barrel on it. It’s designed for 3 gun, so I put a Primary Arms 1-6x24 Gen III on it. However, I don’t really run competitions, it’s mostly a range gun. I have constant access to an outdoor 100 yard range and just got access to a 300-400 yard range about once a month. A buddy of mine also got the same rifle and put a Vortex Viper PST Gen II 2.5-10x32 on his with a bipod and I like the idea. I think I would get more practical use out of it as a bench rifle for precision shooting, so I am considering putting a better scope on it with more magnification. I would definelty like it to be MOA and preferably FFP, but it could be sfp.

As such, I am looking into optics to put on it. I like the Viper PST Gen II 3-15x44, but am not sure I really want to spend quite that much. I can if it’s a great value.

Here are some options with prices that I have come across in my research. Any input or opinions would be vastly appreciated:

Vortex Viper PST Gen II 3-15x44 FFP MOA $700
Vortex Viper H-ST 4-16x44 SFP MOA $400
SWFA SS 3-15x42 FFP MOA $700
SWFA SS 3-15x42 SFP MOA $450
NightForce SHV 3-10x42 SFP MOAR $700
Zeiss Conquest V4 4-16x44 SFP MOA $400

p.s. I would also need a mount for it, so i was thinking the American Defense Recon 30mm

 

[benzy2]

What are you shooting at? At a fixed 100 yards, the difference in FFP and SFP is nothing, probably more valuable to keep the crosshairs thin with a SFP scope. Even at the 300-400 yard range, unless you are shooting unknown distance where you need the reticle to range as well, it’s not a huge deal. FFP still helps with holdover more but at that distance you won’t be holding a ton and can probably guess it. If you think you may shoot a match or at something unknown distance, especially further out, by all means go for a FFP scope.

As for the rest, what do you want the scope to do? None of those are junk. Some will do things better or worse and as a casual range scope, they probably all do more than enough. I’d look at how serious you want to take this, how nice the scope needs to be, and if you value what the more expensive options can do for you. It sounds like you’re at a spot where you just want to have fun with the rifle/scope and for that I don’t think any will treat you wrong. If you want to start more serious work, or want the option to head that direction, then the extra money is probably worth it. All of those will be more than enough to casually shoot at the range now and then.

 

[dcwillro]

I'm having a real hard time buying into these prices if they are for new scopes. But if they're correct, a couple of those are really good deals. I don't think you could go wrong with the PST Gen II for $700.

While I haven't had any experience with the Zeiss V4, I've had good luck with a lot of other Zeiss's, and for $400 I'd buy two.

As far as mounts go, I'm not well versed on AR mounts, but if I had to buy one I'd probably go with Seekins/Vortex. I love their rings.

 

[Alamo]

I don't think I'll ever shoot anything other than Spuhr mounts until something better comes along.

The ability to level the scope w/ 99.99% accuracy with no bullshit (no pulling out laser levels and strapping little spirit levels to the gun etc) is priceless. They're not cheap, but the peace of mind that comes with knowing your mount is GTG and the ammo you won't shoot confirming your rig is tuned is worth far more than the 400 dollar pricetag.

 

[Rstrick0352]

If you open yourself up to MILS you give yourself the option of the Bushnell LRHS/LRTS optics which are excellent for what you pay for and fall within the size and mag range you’re looking at.

 

[DDFan86]

What are you shooting at? At a fixed 100 yards, the difference in FFP and SFP is nothing, probably more valuable to keep the crosshairs thin with a SFP scope. Even at the 300-400 yard range, unless you are shooting unknown distance where you need the reticle to range as well, it’s not a huge deal. FFP still helps with holdover more but at that distance you won’t be holding a ton and can probably guess it. If you think you may shoot a match or at something unknown distance, especially further out, by all means go for a FFP scope.

As for the rest, what do you want the scope to do? None of those are junk. Some will do things better or worse and as a casual range scope, they probably all do more than enough. I’d look at how serious you want to take this, how nice the scope needs to be, and if you value what the more expensive options can do for you. It sounds like you’re at a spot where you just want to have fun with the rifle/scope and for that I don’t think any will treat you wrong. If you want to start more serious work, or want the option to head that direction, then the extra money is probably worth it. All of those will be more than enough to casually shoot at the range now and then.

It's more just range shooting and 300-400 yard shooting with friends on private property. No plans to enter any competitions, and I don't have any available ranges over 500 yards that are within a reasonable drive. If I did end up doing any type of 1000 yard shooting, I would likely get a dedicated bolt action rifle, like the Bergara HMR. For right now, this is just for an occasional use at 400 yards, with constant use at 100 yards.

I'm having a real hard time buying into these prices if they are for new scopes. But if they're correct, a couple of those are really good deals. I don't think you could go wrong with the PST Gen II for $700.

While I haven't had any experience with the Zeiss V4, I've had good luck with a lot of other Zeiss's, and for $400 I'd buy two.

As far as mounts go, I'm not well versed on AR mounts, but if I had to buy one I'd probably go with Seekins/Vortex. I love their rings.

I have a buddy that is a dealer and could get some brands at a discount, that is why some of them are lower. The Zeiss V4 is definitely tempting but i think i am currently leaning towards the Pst gen 2.

 

[dcwillro]

I thought that might be the case. Those are good deals! I think the Vortex would be a good choice.

 

[benzy2]

To me that sounds like any decent scope will do and that needing to dial 10-20MIL isn’t going to be common. Since it’s not a do or die situation, things like zero stop aren’t all that important, since being off a revolution does no real harm. I guess my point is the list of NEEDS in this scope is fairly low and they all meet or exceed them. Then it becomes the list of WANTS and that is very personal. I don’t think you will ever go wrong by buying more scope than you think you need and more features than you think you need, but for just this use I’d happily shoot any of them any day.

 

[DDFan86]

To me that sounds like any decent scope will do and that needing to dial 10-20MIL isn’t going to be common. Since it’s not a do or die situation, things like zero stop aren’t all that important, since being off a revolution does no real harm. I guess my point is the list of NEEDS in this scope is fairly low and they all meet or exceed them. Then it becomes the list of WANTS and that is very personal. I don’t think you will ever go wrong by buying more scope than you think you need and more features than you think you need, but for just this use I’d happily shoot any of them any day.

That being said, what would your choice be? I have heard some complain about the tracking in the vipers, but i am not sure how they compare in glass quality to the SWFA SS? The SHV and V4 are also very tempting, but both are in SFP and i would prefer FFP. I really don't know what to choose. The only one that I have seen in person is the Viper which I loved. At the same time, I really like the price of the V4, and I know that the quality of NightForce is second to none. The SWFA also apparently has a great reputation for reliability.

 

[benzy2]

The V4 at $400 is an unreal deal. I’d buy one or two even if I didn’t have a use. The PST Gen II isn’t a bad deal either. My first instinct would be the Zeiss, see how that goes, and if you don’t like it, sell it for $600-$700 and then buy what you want. It’s such a below market price I couldn’t pass that one up. If I was given one for free, I’d probably take the PST Gen II of that group first.

 

[DDFan86]

The V4 at $400 is an unreal deal. I’d buy one or two even if I didn’t have a use. The PST Gen II isn’t a bad deal either. My first instinct would be the Zeiss, see how that goes, and if you don’t like it, sell it for $600-$700 and then buy what you want. It’s such a below market price I couldn’t pass that one up. If I was given one for free, I’d probably take the PST Gen II of that group first.

Yeah that V4 is very tempting. I would definitely get it if it was in FFP, but the fact that it is FFP is making me still lean toward the PST.

What do you think of the Vortex Precision Extended Cantilever Mount? They have one that appears to be made by seekins and one made by ADM.

 

[dcwillro]

One thing to think about on the Zeiss is that while the subtensions are only accurate at max power they do scale with magnification. For example at 8x each hash is 4 MOA and at 4x each has is 8 MOA. So the hash marks are still functional.

Furthermore, you might think about how much you really plan to use hold overs. I really only use my reticle for wind and measuring, and dial the turrets for drop.

Not that there is anything wrong with the Vortex, I have a a Gen 1 FFP PST and it's been great. I just prefer my Zeiss V6, and I assume the V4 is of similar quality and have read great reviews on it.

 

[DDFan86]

One thing to think about on the Zeiss is that while the subtensions are only accurate at max power they do scale with magnification. For example at 8x each hash is 4 MOA and at 4x each has is 8 MOA. So the hash marks are still functional.

Furthermore, you might think about how much you really plan to use hold overs. I really only use my reticle for wind and measuring, and dial the turrets for drop.

Not that there is anything wrong with the Vortex, I have a a Gen 1 FFP PST and it's been great. I just prefer my Zeiss V6, and I assume the V4 is of similar quality and have read great reviews on it.

Wow, I had not read about that feature for the Zeiss V4. With that knowledge, I think I may actually go with the Zeiss. Out of curiosity, what mount are you using for your V6?

For the zeiss, it has a capped windage turret, so do you just hold over for wind, or remove the cap and adjust the dial for wind as well?

 

[dcwillro]

It is not specific to Zeiss either, it works on all SFP scopes. It'll work for any magnification but the math is easiest at half power and quarter power. Take max magnification divided by current magnification, and then multiply that by 2 MOA (for that particular reticle) to find out how much one hash is worth at that power. For example, at 12x, 16x/12x=4/3. (4/3)×2=(8/3) so at 12x each hash is 2.66 MOA.

On the V6, the windage turret is not capped. But yes I use the reticle for wind. I don't ever dial for it, but that's just a personal preference. In fact, I wish my windage turret was capped.

As for mounts, I use Seekins rings and a 20MOA rail, but it's on a bolt action. They make an AR mount too, but I have neither experience nor knowledge with it. If you decide to go with the Zeiss over the Vortex, you'll have saved almost enough for the Spuhr mount, which is supposed to really be the cat's ass. I'd like to try one myself.

 

[VegasHKShooter]

I voted “something else” because you can get the NightForce SHV in a 4-14 FFP and it is an AMAZING scope. Better than anything on that list, and in a FFP. I JUST sold one, and not because it wasn’t awesome, just that I replaced it with an ATACR 1-8. For the guns I use, the 1-8, especially the ATACR is perfect. But....it’s in a different universe on price etc.

Do yourself a favor, check out the SHV F1.

 

[Stickshift]

Is there any reason you haven't listed any Athlons? If you're looking at the Viper PST Gen 2 and are budget conscious, you'd benefit from looking at the Athlon Ares BTR and even the new Midas Tac. Both have similar features to the Viper for less money and marginally less refinement/quality. I think one of these or the Viper is the way to go. I voted for the Viper.

Crazy idea time: this might also be a good application for a Leupold VX-3i LRP. Leupold gets a lot of crap here for good reason - hell, someone posted tracking issues with their LRP here last week - but on paper it's a good fit for an AR where you don't want a boat anchor of a scope. The 4.5-14x is very short and very light. There are simple hash and Christmas tree reticles in MOA and mils and first and second focal plane. The big, goofy elevation turret has a solid zero stop and a clever rev counter. Windage is optionally capped. If you don't mind possibly having to send it back to correct the tracking, and don't mind the variable eye relief that old-style Leupold's have, one may be worth trying out.