Tubb Adaptive Target Rifle
- Thread starter Squibbler
- Start date
Have a friend that has been playing with David's rifle over the years and really likes it. Once he gets his I will be looking forward to put rounds through it. The TUB 2000 was a nice rifle, this one seems much better. Best advice would be to call David and talk to him if he doesn't comment here.
Plan on doing so further. I did email him and got referred to his YouTube video. Still looking for more independent feedback from the marketplace if there is any yet, because I'm close to laying down some hard earned cash for what looks like an awesome rifle.
I am an admirer of all things Tubb. Like all his products, this one appears to address every design aspect; implementing deep and sober thought with no-holds-barred excellent solutions.
Yes, it's a lot of money, and regardless of its attributes, it's priced above my highest conceivable bar. But it's also a lot of rifle and I think it's a fair bargain for the limited market who can reasonably consider purchasing one.
Greg
Yes, it's a lot of money, and regardless of its attributes, it's priced above my highest conceivable bar. But it's also a lot of rifle and I think it's a fair bargain for the limited market who can reasonably consider purchasing one.
Greg
I am not sure if you can pre order one or not, and pretty sure they are not yet available. However, David would be the one to ask on that. I can get you in touch with my friend who knows quite a bit about the new rifle coming out. Though I can tell you he is very biased and about the same as talking to David. Once he receives his I will be able to determine weather or not I will pick one up for my dedicated PRS rifle.
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Hey, I've got one on order, but I don't think any have been released to the public yet. It was originally slated for 1st quarter release, and they have been bumping it back for various reasons. Last update I have is October delivery.
if you have a Facebook account find him there and you will find a bit more information and pics. He tends to announce new things on the Facebook page also.
if you have a Facebook account find him there and you will find a bit more information and pics. He tends to announce new things on the Facebook page also.
How much is the rifle going to sell for? I looked through his releases and youtube videos and don't recall hearing or reading a price. More than likely I missed the msrp.
Seven thousand dollars for just a rifle, you've got to be joking. Looks like everything else I've ever seen from David Tubb, way overpriced!!! FWIW, everything I've ever purchased from DT has been a massive disappointment. I hear that name and walk in the opposite direction. YMMV
Wow, it sounds like you really have an axe to grind. What product did you purchase that made you feel this way?
5800 for the rifle minus barrel, 6900 for rifle. David said the reason for the price was that it was expensive to make and it couldn't be mass produced with the amount of work that goes into each rifle.
Nope, but I sure outshoot them
Edit: FWIW I just penciled out what it would cost to build the highest end rifle I could dream of using my gunsmith, who has also set a number of world records (BR), and it was still under $4000 with brake, rings, and an Atlas. I'm just not sure what the extra $3000 dollars would get me in Tubb's rifle. AI seem like nice rifles, they certainly have a great reputation, track record, and have proven themselves to the most knowledgeable and demanding critics in this industry.
I'm sureDT's rifle is going to be of the highest quality, but so are my rifles costing nearly half
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When I first read about the rifle I had in my head it would probably be around $4,500 - $5,000 without barrel. I wasn't too far off. Cool rifle for sure. Hope he sells a lot of em.
Maybe, not really sure, I'll let you decide. Here is what i know. I sent him more than $300 for new speedlock systems and what I got was nicely machined and of the highest quality, it just didn't work worth a damn, accuracy seriously suffered. I also know, from this website, that many others had the same experience, with no one really chiming in for DT's defense. This is a fool me once, not gonna let ya fool me twice type of situation. There's just too many other options...So like I said, I just figuratively walk in the other direction, perhaps it's my loss, oh well. Like I said YMMV, just giving my experiences
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So, let me get this straight, everything you've ever purchased from DT was this one item. Is that correct or am I miss-reading somewhere?
My disclosure, I've not owned any DT products and am only an interested reader.
I purchased three items from him, but yes, one product line, two SA's and a LA. However, he individually sells the lightweight firing pin and high speed spring. They didn't work, everyone on this forum said they had the same experiences, he continues to sell them, so i said, "huh, $300 down the drain, geez that sucks, I don't think I will be risking anymore of my money with his products, seems like he is trying to sell me a solution to a problem I don't have".
That's it, and I could very well be wrong about all of this, I have no problem acknowledging that, this could very well be the greatest rifle ever produced, outperforming everything else, making seven thousand dollars a true bargain. But, that first experience left me with such a bad taste, I don't plan on revisiting.
That's it, and I could very well be wrong about all of this, I have no problem acknowledging that, this could very well be the greatest rifle ever produced, outperforming everything else, making seven thousand dollars a true bargain. But, that first experience left me with such a bad taste, I don't plan on revisiting.
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I spend a fair amount of time last year visiting with DT at last years Berger SW Nationals going over his new rifle. He had it with him and took the time to go through all the details and had an opportunity to handle it. It is very well made and I was impressed. It is an improvement over the T2K which is quite a statement in itself. I have owned a T2K for several years and have barrels for it in several different calibers and they all shoot. Expensive yes.
Attachments
Nope, but I sure outshoot them
Edit: FWIW I just penciled out what it would cost to build the highest end rifle I could dream of using my gunsmith, who has also set a number of world records (BR), and it was still under $4000 with brake, rings, and an Atlas. I'm just not sure what the extra $3000 dollars would get me in Tubb's rifle. AI seem like nice rifles, they certainly have a great reputation, track record, and have proven themselves to the most knowledgeable and demanding critics in this industry.
I'm sureDT's rifle is going to be of the highest quality, but so are my rifles costing nearly half
Have you actually seen the Tubb gun? Does your sub $4k gun do half the things that this gun does? How bout this, show your gunsmith the Tubb gun, and ask him to make you one. We'll all wait for you to post his price quote here. Do you actually expect a low volume specialty rifle with features like that to price out like a basic custom( the highest end rifle you could dream of apprently). Sorry, you just sound ridiculous.
I have no connection with Tubb, and dont plan on buying his rifle. I think it's pretty badass though. Cheaper than my AXMC was.
Seen the gun? Only pics on the internet
Will the sub 4 grand rifle do half or more as the Tubb? Yes, pretty much everything, was an apples to apples comparison. And what you call specialty features, I call solutions to non-existent problems which require you to buy additional parts from DT with no aftermarket support.
Whether you want to admit it, a rifle is just a tool that has a specific job, it doesn't have to be absurdly expensive to do that job and do it well.
I once asked my GS why his prices were so low, he told me it was simple. He'd been doing it for 40 years, owned all his equipment, and had zero overhead. I'm not sure DT can make all those claims. Which doesn't necessarily detract from the quality of his rifle, but certainly helps in explaining his prices as well as many other's in the industry.
And like I said above, I'm sure his rifle will be of the highest quality. Please reread this line.
So I may sound ridiculous, but I'm not a fool
and here is a summary of costs;
TL3, Defiance Deviant, or most any custom action $1300, Mausingfield $1600
Bartlein barrel shipped to my door with tax $400 (I know this charge well)
Manners T series with all the options $1300, McMillan, Cadex comp ($1850)
Brake $75
Chambering $150
Muzzle brake install $50
Timney Trigger $200
Scope Rings $200
which is basically what my target rifles look like, a mix of Manners, McMillan, a laminated target stock thrown in, a couple jewel triggers, just plain Jane 700's though.
Total $3675, call it an even 4 grand for the Mausingfield, with an avg wait time of less than a week, ridiculous? So what will DT's rifle do the above won't?
An extra three grand and barrels that are twice the price with how long a wait-time? Just not for me. But this obviously means he didn't design it for me. No one is right or wrong here, it's just perspective and priorities.
I think I've made my point painfully clear, I've certainly written way more than I wanted and derailed the thread long enough, anyone with hands on experience wanna chime in? Even I can handle only so much theoretical debate.
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You never listed anything in your post that indicates your rifle can do everything the new DT rifle can. As you said, "Apples to Apples"
Anyone can throw a list of components together with some ballpark prices next to it. However, that is not what David did with this rifle and it seems you have not even taken the time to find out what his rifle is capable of before your constant bitching because something costs more than you are willing to spend.
We get it, the rifle is above your price range.
Not comparing apples to apples. DT's rifle is a platform which can be configured for different types of competition; High Power, FTR, PRS to name a few. Change out barrels which is a snap and you are good to go. Try that with a a conventional 700 build described above. The rifle is not for everybody but for a certain class of competitive shooters.
David's rifle is multi caliber, he can shoot an NRA Match one weekend, an ELR Match the next weekend and a PRS Match the follow weekend with a variety of cartridges a normal short action cannot do.
This rifle is closer to an AXMC than an AX308... that is the mistake of the comparison to a custom rifle that uses a Bighorn or Mausingfield
This is all I have in front of me
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/6C7ZXS7MrKc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
This rifle is closer to an AXMC than an AX308... that is the mistake of the comparison to a custom rifle that uses a Bighorn or Mausingfield
This is all I have in front of me
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/6C7ZXS7MrKc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
So, what will the Tubb gun do the gun above won't? It's a simple question that you've refused to answer, nor did you address any other points I made. You just call names and make stupid comments.
In my opinion, it's a way overpriced tifle from a man who has sold me products in the past that did not live up to his claims and rendered one rifle completely useless, failing to fire more than half the time. I don't trust him, so I wouldn't buy one of his rifles. Period.
Well I watched the videos online and read the info on his website. I don't see anything special here. I see a gun that requires an extra $100 for every barrel, a piece that can only be purchased through Tubb. Proprietary magazines, only available through Tubb for how much? And a jack of all trades gun.
I've actually been quite nice and professional, til now. So if you don't like my opinions, don't respond, it's the internet.
And, finally I love when pretentious retards think it's all about what you can afford, a fool with money is still a fool my friend. So, I will continue building rifles with a specific job in mind, because like my favorite econ professor always told me, a jack of all trades is an expert of none.
you should have probably known this before chiming in about your experience buying a high speed firing pin lol
Let's say you buy a small piece from LRI, maybe something for an RPR. You get it and it leaves your gun not working, mind you the piece is not defective, it just doesn't work, even though Chad assured you it would.
Now, who in their right mind would then buy a full rifle of his design. That is where I'm coming from. He may be the best guy in the world, but because of his actions, I don't trust him. Tubb, not Chad, lol.
And so there's no ambiguity, I think Chad at LRI is the man and don't in any way think anything remotely negative. Just the opposite.
I'm not sure how many times I can say this. I'm sure the rifle will be nice. Ok?
Now, who in their right mind would then buy a full rifle of his design. That is where I'm coming from. He may be the best guy in the world, but because of his actions, I don't trust him. Tubb, not Chad, lol.
And so there's no ambiguity, I think Chad at LRI is the man and don't in any way think anything remotely negative. Just the opposite.
I'm not sure how many times I can say this. I'm sure the rifle will be nice. Ok?
Not to mention he gives you $4k for parts but includes no labor to build the rifle, including the time it takes to receive it.
The Tubb Rifle can shoot Magnum and Non Magnum Calibers, Short Action and Long, in the same configuration. Sure you have to buy barrels, but the custom rifle configured for $4k cannot alternate between Magnum Calibers, long Action stuff, and Short Action in the same system. So to answer the question on what the Tubb Gun can do your Custom Build cannot is, just that...
To equal the Tubb Rifle with a custom short action, you would actually need two rifles, a Short Action and a Separate Long Action, so you are back to $8k for just the parts, a bit more if you figure some long actions might be a bit more expensive. Then you would need a Switch Lug or something similar in order to switch barrels and cailbers without a gunsmith.
How can a Bighorn TL3 shoot both a 243 and 338 ? The Tubb Rifle can ... everything inbetween too
The Tubb Rifle can shoot Magnum and Non Magnum Calibers, Short Action and Long, in the same configuration. Sure you have to buy barrels, but the custom rifle configured for $4k cannot alternate between Magnum Calibers, long Action stuff, and Short Action in the same system. So to answer the question on what the Tubb Gun can do your Custom Build cannot is, just that...
To equal the Tubb Rifle with a custom short action, you would actually need two rifles, a Short Action and a Separate Long Action, so you are back to $8k for just the parts, a bit more if you figure some long actions might be a bit more expensive. Then you would need a Switch Lug or something similar in order to switch barrels and cailbers without a gunsmith.
How can a Bighorn TL3 shoot both a 243 and 338 ? The Tubb Rifle can ... everything inbetween too
Lowlight,
Thanks for that, I wrote my above post before I read yours. I guess that is what I was missing, a TL3 long action cannot move from a 243 class to a 338 magnum class, i was misinformed. Good to know the truth now.
edit: sorry, I didn't catch that first part. On first read I thought you were saying something about Tubb giving four grand in parts and not charging labor.
But, actually that four grand does include building the rifle. I did include those charges in the list. And he lives just 10 minutes from me so no fees 'cept for gas. Thanks again for the clarification. I think now I'll step back and just read what people with hands on experience have to say.
Thanks for that, I wrote my above post before I read yours. I guess that is what I was missing, a TL3 long action cannot move from a 243 class to a 338 magnum class, i was misinformed. Good to know the truth now.
edit: sorry, I didn't catch that first part. On first read I thought you were saying something about Tubb giving four grand in parts and not charging labor.
But, actually that four grand does include building the rifle. I did include those charges in the list. And he lives just 10 minutes from me so no fees 'cept for gas. Thanks again for the clarification. I think now I'll step back and just read what people with hands on experience have to say.
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After perusing a five minute youtube vid(not franks), i gathered this in no particular order:
-A machined double stack magazine which reconfigures from 308 family to 338lm, and everything in between.
-Its a multicaliber platform (308-lapua mag)that uses interchangable bolt heads (as opposed to entire bolts like other 308-338lm multi caliber rigs)
-its a three lug
-it uses a 1.125 tenon diameter.
-it has a bolt design which goes to seemingly great lengths to maintain bolt alignment(never seen it addressed in this way)
-dissassembly appears to be completely tool-less.
Thats just off the top of my head, there is more. He's also addressing bolt action rifle construction in a completely new way(not cheap).Your sub $4k gun accomplishes none of that list, except you could have a 3 lug. To my knowledge, nothing combines those features in one rifle(along with other things like folding stocks and widely adjustable ergos). Maybe im wrong and there is just such a rifle already on the market, but it most certainly isn't under $4k. Your claim that this rifle is wildly overpriced, or that nothing anyone could want should excede your arbitrary price cap, is just ridiculous.
-A machined double stack magazine which reconfigures from 308 family to 338lm, and everything in between.
-Its a multicaliber platform (308-lapua mag)that uses interchangable bolt heads (as opposed to entire bolts like other 308-338lm multi caliber rigs)
-its a three lug
-it uses a 1.125 tenon diameter.
-it has a bolt design which goes to seemingly great lengths to maintain bolt alignment(never seen it addressed in this way)
-dissassembly appears to be completely tool-less.
Thats just off the top of my head, there is more. He's also addressing bolt action rifle construction in a completely new way(not cheap).Your sub $4k gun accomplishes none of that list, except you could have a 3 lug. To my knowledge, nothing combines those features in one rifle(along with other things like folding stocks and widely adjustable ergos). Maybe im wrong and there is just such a rifle already on the market, but it most certainly isn't under $4k. Your claim that this rifle is wildly overpriced, or that nothing anyone could want should excede your arbitrary price cap, is just ridiculous.
But even to emphasize it more its a multidiscipline rifle. You wont see anyone shooting a PRS rig one weekend then the next shooting it in highpower and then the next shooting it in KO2M. Its simply made to do pretty much absolutely everything.
This rifle is way above my price range or what I am comfortable spending. However, once my friend receives his, or if he ever takes me to David's place to shoot, I would love to try one out. If this rifle is everything David has me convinced it is then I may sell off my match rifle and elr rifle to purchase one of these as my primary PRS, ELR, and Hunting rifle. Using only one scope would be nice as well.
I have never owned anything of DT, but have played with quite a few of his toys and was even a fan of the T2K. I hate to sell my surgeon and trg but this thing may cause that to happen.
Marksman10x , alas, I cannot address your questions because I have no knowledge of this platform other than what I've read and seen.
I don't see the new rifle doing all that well. I don't think there is much of a demand for a $7000 NRA Match rifle? The rifle arrangement itself is good for basically one thing.
The HP shooters that shoot PRS prefer rifles built for PRS. Same can be said for F-Class, etc.
I think if there was a market for a HP match rifle that can also PRS, we would see a lot more Eliseo tube guns. In theory you could enjoy a lot of the modularity just by building on a long action, and getting 3 bolt heads, and 3 lower units. I also wouldn't be surprised if someone could pin a switch lug to one and mill a slot in the handguard to get to it.
The HP shooters that shoot PRS prefer rifles built for PRS. Same can be said for F-Class, etc.
I think if there was a market for a HP match rifle that can also PRS, we would see a lot more Eliseo tube guns. In theory you could enjoy a lot of the modularity just by building on a long action, and getting 3 bolt heads, and 3 lower units. I also wouldn't be surprised if someone could pin a switch lug to one and mill a slot in the handguard to get to it.
The HP shooters build prs rifles for prs because their HP rifles wont do it. From what tubb is saying, this is field reliable, and has the modularity thats all the rage these days(AXMC/DTA). His T2k never sat on shelves, this one should be much more popular than that ever was. I think it's interesting, but im not in the market for one.
One other thing, this goes 308 to lapua mag with the same magazine(no adapters). A bighorn wont do a lapua magnum at all, and a long bighorn with its associated bottom metal wont take a short action mag. Maybe there's an adapter out there im not aware of... but it seems to me that nothing really does all that this does.
I wanna see a barrel change happen. It's conspicuously absent in the vids. They show detailed shots of the extension and associated parts, but no wrench. The nut holding the forend on is a giant knurled thing.
Colddeadhands, go to youtube and google adaptive target rifle, I believe it will be the first hit.
The T2K is an NRA Match Rifle that came out at a time when there wasn't really anything that filled that niche.
I don't doubt the new rifle is cool. I just don't think there are a lot of match rifle shooters that want a rifle that crosses over from NRA stuff to PRS and ELR stuff. All 3 of the sports are very competitive and equipment intensive so people that want to be competitive are more than likely going to use a specific rifle for each.
I think the T2K never took off for PRS because it just isn't as well suited to it. Big round fronts don't rest on barricades well. It's not that the rifle is overly fragile; lots of people shoot PRS with basically Benchrest rifles dressed up as snipers.
I did a little research and the Eliseo RTM chassis can take 3 different lower units for AICS, AICS LA, and AICS CIP mags, so it is conceivable that you could build a "Do it all" rifle on one of the conventional actions.
For what it is worth...I have an Eliseo RTM and a T2K. I've shot both rifles in PRS style matches and the Steel Safari. They did just fine. I think gear simply gets pushed to certain audiences and it becomes self-fulfilling. While some gear is very sport specific, these 2 rifles can cross-over. The RTM is no different than all the other chassis' out there, except that it is even more cartridge modular. It's like a poor man's AXMC except you can trick it out with all the custom parts you want, still run AI mags, and have full adjustability...what's not to like? My RTM eventually became my dedicated 338 once I got the T2K.
T2K: Very smooth and quick bolt throw, great adjustability, Jewell single stage or Anschutz 2-stage trigger, forget mag extensions, how about a 20 round mag? Mine didn't fail in the sands of NM where I shot most comps as well as shot it day to day in the hills where I lived...again, what's not to like?
I am able to shoot often on family land, but haven't shot many competitions in a few years, and got back out to a club match recently. PRS has evolved to a lot of barricades and bags out the wazoo...I bring this up simply because I had some concerns about a round forend tube too, but when everyone is throwing a bag under their forend it kind of becomes a moot point. I'm very impressed by the innovative features of the MPA chassis, and yet I think they've almost become over shadowed by putting a bag under the forend.
Fact is, there are a lot of rifle and gear combinations that will work, you just have to practice. The new ATR brings some new features that make it even more versatile.
To answer a few questions: The barrel assembles with barrel extension, barrel nut, and armorer wrench. I don't think it will be as quick as an AI or DT, but it allows you to get barrels without shipping the action, and I think this is the advantage many want these days. The action is not a full length long action like the RTM. Its really going to lend itself to optimizing the short mags seated long, and with some change in reamer specs it can run the Nosler and Norma mags from the magazine. You will be single feeding belted mags and the big long ELR cartridges, but this isn't much of a detriment, especially if ELR is something you're only dabbling in for fun. It will have a single feed load block so it is a quick and easy motion. David single fed his rifle a .375-338 variant at KO2M and did pretty well.
Anyway, its going to be a neat rifle, and there's no reason that it can't do well at PRS.
T2K: Very smooth and quick bolt throw, great adjustability, Jewell single stage or Anschutz 2-stage trigger, forget mag extensions, how about a 20 round mag? Mine didn't fail in the sands of NM where I shot most comps as well as shot it day to day in the hills where I lived...again, what's not to like?
I am able to shoot often on family land, but haven't shot many competitions in a few years, and got back out to a club match recently. PRS has evolved to a lot of barricades and bags out the wazoo...I bring this up simply because I had some concerns about a round forend tube too, but when everyone is throwing a bag under their forend it kind of becomes a moot point. I'm very impressed by the innovative features of the MPA chassis, and yet I think they've almost become over shadowed by putting a bag under the forend.
Fact is, there are a lot of rifle and gear combinations that will work, you just have to practice. The new ATR brings some new features that make it even more versatile.
To answer a few questions: The barrel assembles with barrel extension, barrel nut, and armorer wrench. I don't think it will be as quick as an AI or DT, but it allows you to get barrels without shipping the action, and I think this is the advantage many want these days. The action is not a full length long action like the RTM. Its really going to lend itself to optimizing the short mags seated long, and with some change in reamer specs it can run the Nosler and Norma mags from the magazine. You will be single feeding belted mags and the big long ELR cartridges, but this isn't much of a detriment, especially if ELR is something you're only dabbling in for fun. It will have a single feed load block so it is a quick and easy motion. David single fed his rifle a .375-338 variant at KO2M and did pretty well.
Anyway, its going to be a neat rifle, and there's no reason that it can't do well at PRS.
I
I was thinking the same thing. Would like a vid showing barrel swap, bolt head change, and setting up the magazine to a particular length cartridge. Also how the action cycles repeatedly in a shooting situationn--to be able to watch bolt lift, bolt cycle, and extraction. I've seen the T2K and that looked extremely light and fast for bolt manipulation, wondering if this will be the same.
This rifle seems very interesting and has a lot of ingenuity.
It addresses a lot of wants and needs of the shooting community especially those with wanting to cover multiple disciplines.
To those that have never gone down the rabbit hole of trying to use readily available components to make a multiple caliber rifle that can go from .308 bolt face to .338 bolt face....there are several obstacles. Many of you in this thread already know this. For those that don't here's some issues to be conquered.
-Short actions cannot physically fit a .300wm much less any other caliber that is longer
-ok so you get a long action.......now it's the bolt faces, go get .308, .300wm, .338 LM bolts/heads
****HERE'S WHERE THE BRICK WALL IS for most setups....magazines and feeding**
Having bottom metal that's made for long actions is too long to just pop in a short action mag. There's a couple ways I have found to remedy this.
Let's think of a major rifle that's a short action caliber that's built off a long action.......the Army M24. Getting your hands on the badger bottom metal for drop box mag setup that has the spacing for .308 to run in a ling action is really REALLY tough. Another option is Cadex since some of their chassis have removable bottom metal that you can remove and insert different mag sleeves. They also make an optional bottom metal that has the correct spacing for the M24 setup. So you can get a long action and slap it into a Cadex chassis then swap the bottom metal pieces and mag inserts. Then you have to change the barrel if you get creative a person could probably change barrels without removing from chassis. This was a plan I came up with BEFORE the Kraken came out and 2 years before any info on it was released. Now this is not a super fast and easy barrel change that can be done with an Allen wrench but there is one big advantage.......I have come up with a way to utilize the top rail of the Cadex Dual Strike so it can stay mounted to the action and be removed so it can be dropped into a light weight hunting stock. This way the top rail (base) AND optic stay mounted always. I even have a very well known action manufacturer that is willing to work with me on developing a .223 bolt for this setup.
Another option is running long action bottom metal is a composite stock and modifying magazines. I have talked with Josh at PVA who has built several rifles doing this. Most have been .300wm and 6.5cm switch barrel setups. He modifies AICS .300wm mags to hold the 6.5cm/.308 to feed properly and then you just swap your barrel/bolt (most of the time just bolt head since he uses a lot of TL3 actions). Stock was a manners with PTG bottom metal (don't quote me on that).
Another point to mention is people thinking they can go buy a factory R700 long action or donor rifle to build .300 NM or the such. Can things of this nature physically be done.....yes...are they safe......that's a whole different story.
Now enter the setups that were designed by big manufacturers and most were designed for or inspired by the PSR SOCOM bid back in 2013.
-AI AXMC
-Remington PSR
-Sako TRG M10
-Desert Tech SRS
-FN Ballista
-Barrett MRAD
There's hours of discussion and bickering that could go on about what's best out of those. To sum it up, there are some GREAT choices out of those above with some having far more support and options than others.
The price of the above mentioned PSR contenders is not really much more than the big custom rifle I described above using the Cadex chassis.
Other than the Eliseo there's hardly any other options that can go .308 to .338 LM.
Back to the Tubb Adaptive Target Rifle.......one point that would hold me back is what happens if David Tubb no longer wants to or is able to deal with making more rifles or parts for rifles? What kind of support system is there ? I am legitimately asking because I don't personally know how big his operation is and if there is someone who could stand right up in his absence. A recent example is the unfortunate passing of a great man who was passionate about ELR, Mr. Bill Ritchie from EDM. There is a company that luckily has taken over but what if they hadn't. Sure everything can be reverse engineered but I'm sure the costs would be astronomical.
With all that said, I am settled on an AI AXMC for accuracy, reliability, ease of access to parts, ease of barrel change, long proven history and proven long term business model they have developed.
It addresses a lot of wants and needs of the shooting community especially those with wanting to cover multiple disciplines.
To those that have never gone down the rabbit hole of trying to use readily available components to make a multiple caliber rifle that can go from .308 bolt face to .338 bolt face....there are several obstacles. Many of you in this thread already know this. For those that don't here's some issues to be conquered.
-Short actions cannot physically fit a .300wm much less any other caliber that is longer
-ok so you get a long action.......now it's the bolt faces, go get .308, .300wm, .338 LM bolts/heads
****HERE'S WHERE THE BRICK WALL IS for most setups....magazines and feeding**
Having bottom metal that's made for long actions is too long to just pop in a short action mag. There's a couple ways I have found to remedy this.
Let's think of a major rifle that's a short action caliber that's built off a long action.......the Army M24. Getting your hands on the badger bottom metal for drop box mag setup that has the spacing for .308 to run in a ling action is really REALLY tough. Another option is Cadex since some of their chassis have removable bottom metal that you can remove and insert different mag sleeves. They also make an optional bottom metal that has the correct spacing for the M24 setup. So you can get a long action and slap it into a Cadex chassis then swap the bottom metal pieces and mag inserts. Then you have to change the barrel if you get creative a person could probably change barrels without removing from chassis. This was a plan I came up with BEFORE the Kraken came out and 2 years before any info on it was released. Now this is not a super fast and easy barrel change that can be done with an Allen wrench but there is one big advantage.......I have come up with a way to utilize the top rail of the Cadex Dual Strike so it can stay mounted to the action and be removed so it can be dropped into a light weight hunting stock. This way the top rail (base) AND optic stay mounted always. I even have a very well known action manufacturer that is willing to work with me on developing a .223 bolt for this setup.
Another option is running long action bottom metal is a composite stock and modifying magazines. I have talked with Josh at PVA who has built several rifles doing this. Most have been .300wm and 6.5cm switch barrel setups. He modifies AICS .300wm mags to hold the 6.5cm/.308 to feed properly and then you just swap your barrel/bolt (most of the time just bolt head since he uses a lot of TL3 actions). Stock was a manners with PTG bottom metal (don't quote me on that).
Another point to mention is people thinking they can go buy a factory R700 long action or donor rifle to build .300 NM or the such. Can things of this nature physically be done.....yes...are they safe......that's a whole different story.
Now enter the setups that were designed by big manufacturers and most were designed for or inspired by the PSR SOCOM bid back in 2013.
-AI AXMC
-Remington PSR
-Sako TRG M10
-Desert Tech SRS
-FN Ballista
-Barrett MRAD
There's hours of discussion and bickering that could go on about what's best out of those. To sum it up, there are some GREAT choices out of those above with some having far more support and options than others.
The price of the above mentioned PSR contenders is not really much more than the big custom rifle I described above using the Cadex chassis.
Other than the Eliseo there's hardly any other options that can go .308 to .338 LM.
Back to the Tubb Adaptive Target Rifle.......one point that would hold me back is what happens if David Tubb no longer wants to or is able to deal with making more rifles or parts for rifles? What kind of support system is there ? I am legitimately asking because I don't personally know how big his operation is and if there is someone who could stand right up in his absence. A recent example is the unfortunate passing of a great man who was passionate about ELR, Mr. Bill Ritchie from EDM. There is a company that luckily has taken over but what if they hadn't. Sure everything can be reverse engineered but I'm sure the costs would be astronomical.
With all that said, I am settled on an AI AXMC for accuracy, reliability, ease of access to parts, ease of barrel change, long proven history and proven long term business model they have developed.
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Also interested to hear hand's on experiences. Wondering if DT will sell a few more now that his son-in-law set the ELR record with that weapon system.
I got my lefty ATR out this morning for the first time. I loaded up 50 rounds with a mild charge just to break in some new brass, zero load development. Sighted it in, in a couple of rounds and then put about 10 through the 1/2" dot, basically a .25" group. Did a little positional work on some small steel rounds at 200, and then moved on to my long range steel, that is placed roughly every 100 yards from 400 to 1020. I was shooting a few rounds on each target before moving on to the next target. Wind varied between 5 and 10 mph, nothing crazy. Ended up with 3 shots in 3" at 900 yards with about 1.5" of vertical. At 1020, wind picked up and spread my group out about 6", and had about 2-2.5" of vertical. Finished off the last 10 rounds shooting the 400 yard plate from a kneeling position with rifle set on top of a barricade bag.
Take away: Rifle is easy to get behind. I might have gotten lucky with the load, but it is my experience that rifles with more tennon support have wider nodes, and it appears to hold true with the Tubb ATR. T7T trigger is simply excellent, not much else to say. Magazines cycle smooth, and I can run the bolt about as fast as I used to with my old T2K (with one or 2 fingers), it's just a slightly longer bolt throw. I had already dry fired the rifle at least 1500 times so I'm used to it. Magazines are machined, and fit tight in the mag well. At first they are pretty tight due to the coating, but they are breaking in nicely. The long handguard on this thing is like a long wheel base...it tracks reeeeal smooth. Rifle balances nicely on a barricade bag. Folder locks up tight. I really like how small this thing can fold down to if you take the barrel and hand guard off. I'm probably going to pick up a short Proof 6.5mm barrel for killing stuff, and I bet the rifle sans scope will weigh about 9.5 lbs in that config. I have a very precise counting scale, so I'm always weighing stuff....Rifle is 7.1 lbs with everything assembled (including barrel extension), except a barrel. Feel free to ask questions, and as of today there are still some lefties in stock.
Take away: Rifle is easy to get behind. I might have gotten lucky with the load, but it is my experience that rifles with more tennon support have wider nodes, and it appears to hold true with the Tubb ATR. T7T trigger is simply excellent, not much else to say. Magazines cycle smooth, and I can run the bolt about as fast as I used to with my old T2K (with one or 2 fingers), it's just a slightly longer bolt throw. I had already dry fired the rifle at least 1500 times so I'm used to it. Magazines are machined, and fit tight in the mag well. At first they are pretty tight due to the coating, but they are breaking in nicely. The long handguard on this thing is like a long wheel base...it tracks reeeeal smooth. Rifle balances nicely on a barricade bag. Folder locks up tight. I really like how small this thing can fold down to if you take the barrel and hand guard off. I'm probably going to pick up a short Proof 6.5mm barrel for killing stuff, and I bet the rifle sans scope will weigh about 9.5 lbs in that config. I have a very precise counting scale, so I'm always weighing stuff....Rifle is 7.1 lbs with everything assembled (including barrel extension), except a barrel. Feel free to ask questions, and as of today there are still some lefties in stock.
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