Has anyone actually used a tuner on a 20" barrel in 22 caliber , I have read its useless to use one since the barrel is so stiff anyway, but since I don't know how stiff it really is, any thought's if it would be worth trying??
Tuner on 20" Barrel
- Thread starter Nipper Dog
- Start date
I guess it also depends on the profile.
My barrel is a straight .940” at 24” long and the tuner works….
For the past 6yrs I've been been trying to fine a benchrest 22 capable of shooting at least 10 shot 1.5in groups at 200yds. I have bought and sold several guns from full Calfee customs to 50 year old Remington 40x. and everything in between. I have not found that gun yet' but i have learned a few things. #1 All tuners attempt to do the same thing. Get the bullet to exit the barrel on a harmonic node. This is done by adding weight an or length to the barrel. #2 If you can't tune it with a standard Harrels you probably can't tune it. #3 A tuned barrel is a tuned barrel. Barrel harmonics don't change with distance to target. #4 You can't tune at longer ranges outdoors. You never know if differences in shot placement are due to conditions, ammo. you or your tuner settings. #5 Short fat barrels don't respond well if at all to a standard Harrels tuner. #6 The easiest barrels to tune are between 22 and 27in, .870 to .9. And last is ammo,ammo,ammo. Chronographing 22lr ammo is a waste of time. You can't tell from lot to lot, box to box ,or bullet to bullet what the speed of the next shot will be!. Lot testing ammo that is offered in different lots is the only way to achieve maximum accuracy of your gun.
The B14R carbon is a pencil barrel under a hollow carbon tube so that maybe why it was effective. Someone here posted a pic of their carbon tube removed from the barrel.
How close have you gotten? My Vudoo will do 10 shots in a 2" group, but not 1.5". Though this is also shooting center-x. I would think maybe something higher $ like x-act or tenex might have a small enough SD/ES to do a 1.5" group.
I've been playing with tuners for a bit, it seems you've been playing longer so I'm curious about your #3.
Through experiments I've signed on to this explanation:
Distance definitely seems make a difference in getting slower projectiles to impact the same point as faster ones and makes total sense to me.
I know both you and Calfee don't agree on this. My question is, if you're not getting the rounds to shoot to same elevation by timing the release of the bullet in the wave, what is happening? Also, I definitely see horizontal dispersion in tuning, as if the barrel isnt vibrating directly in line w gravity but in an ellipse or figure 8 pattern. Have you witnessed this?
First of all, let me say that my post related to the accuracy of a 22 remfire are my opinions and are not necessarily etched in stone, but they are based on a lifetime of shooting. Now as to a tuned barrel is a tuned barrel. It is my belief that in order for a gun to be accurate at 100 or 200 yds it must be accurate at 50 first. Same goes for ammo. I have never found a gun that shot better at 100 than at 50. Never found ammo that shot better at 100 than it did at 50. Don't everyone get their panties in a wad. I know there are exceptions to every rule. I always tune at less than 50 yds. It lessons the effects of outdoor conditions and I always tune with my best lot of ammo. I doubt seriously that anyone can really tune a remfire barrel at 100 outdoors, and I know they can't at 200. It's hard to tell if tuner adj. is making the changes in shot placement! I have found that if I have any chance at all of hitting 10 golf balls with 10 shots at 200 my gun must be able to at least 10 to 15 shots in one .22 cal hole at fifty. I compete at 100 and 200 yds. I do all my tuning and lot testing between 30 an 50yds, I have not found a better way to get better long range results. My best gun so far for 200 was a Calfee custom 50 yd benchrest with a 23in Shilen barrel Harrels tuner that came with the tuner setting taped down so as not to be moved. It was good for 8 out of ten hits at 200 weather permitting. It would only shoot Eley 10x which some people say won't shoot past 50. Pure BS.
I've use a ATS tuner successfully on a 22lr 20 inch bull barreled ER Shaw for my RPRimfire. I think any tuner will be effective but some may require more adjustment than others due to the actual weight of the tuner body and actual postion on the barrel. I just tested my EC tuner with 1/2-28 adapter and noted the overall weight was 9 plus ounces over the ATS's 5 plus and it it mounted extending the barrel length. When I tuned with the EC tuner I found that smaller increments and only one full rotation was needs to find the total cycle and node as opposed to more coarse 1/4 turn adjustments and 3 full rotations with the lighter ATS.
You can in fact tune at 200 and should micro adjust your tune that far out for the PRS/ NRL22 game. You can see the difference in the tuner movements. This is in fact my most CF Shooters tune their rifle at 300-500. There is no way you can have a great group at long distance and not have a single hole at closer distance.
I tune my lot at 50 and micro adjust at 100. Then carry 24" plate to 200 and micro adjust again. It will shrink. You still can't stop a Bad ES or SD. Bad ammo is bad ammo.
Horizontal I atribute to me the shooter or an odd wind factor I need to look for.
Vertical Stringing is the ammo ES/SD. It can be tuned out some, but you will not tune out a 20FPS spike or fall in velocity.
All I watch at distance is the group size. If the wind is a constant and moving the group as a hole one way I am good with it. It only takes 3-5 shots at 200 to know if your tuner adjustment is working. The horizontal line on my plate is to try and keep me level and the same position on the plate. I have held one way or another and sent 1 round. The used that 1 impact to base my next 3-5 rounds off of. Make the walk with paint and rinse and repeat. Or adjust the tuner and shoot 3-5 more. You can see the change enough to make the decision.
When I say micro adjust at 100 and 200 yards. I am talking about less than 1 tick mark on the tuner. I might move mine 3 times before reaching the next mark. It works that easy. I was skeptical when I gave it a try, but the proof is in the groups.
I know this is a little old but, I think one of the problems is, not having a tuner designed for shorter barrels. I have a 20" Kidd and ordered a tuner from Joe Chacon specific to this length and the improvement was obvious. I just received my 24" Shilen set up by JElrod for my Rimx and a rechambered now 19.75" Green Mountain barrel. I have a ProX tuner for it. ProX has specific bushings for different barrel lengths.. When I measured the tuner and barrel and applied the Purdy formula, it was too long. Then I reviewed the SFP website where there are specific instructions as to how to set up the tuner for a specific barrel length to tune to the 9th harmonic. SFP has 4 different bushings corresponding to barrel lengths from 18.424" to 26.624". I have a 1/2" bushing for the shorter barrel and 1" for the 24" barrel. Once I get my Harrell's back from being recut, I will have a chance to compare the 2.
That's my understanding on the Purdy method, being very specific measurements to your barrel length. I spoke to Killough's around the two, and there's a lot of back and forth on Purdy vs Hopewell. I ended up just getting the new Holeshot Tuner and going with the Hopewell method as it's not barrel length specific.
It'd be interesting to hear how you compare your SFP purdy results with the Harrell's.
