Just curious to know what you all are getting at 50-55 yards for multiple 5 shot groups? And what ammo it was done with.
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Typical 17HMR Accuracy
- Thread starter Kisssofdeath
- Start date
Every HMR I've had has shot MOA or better. As long as there is no wind they were all great shooters. I've had a CZ and a few Savages. Was pretty easy to pick squirrels out of the trees with headshots.
Every 17 hmr that I ever had, has been somewhere between .8 and 1.2 MOA with five shot groups. This is several savages, 3 CZ's heavy barrel to thin, 452-453 with set trigger and 455., Sako quad, and I have own semi-auto in a Ruger 10-22 mag converted to 17 hmr and a Volquartzen. I am talking legit everyday groups, every now and then you I would get a .50 group. Now I have probably shot 500 plus 5 shot groups over the last 7-8 years and I have shot in excess of 1500 groundhogs in the time frame using a 17hmr. Here is where things get really different.
I read an article that was very very detail and scientifically proven with data and the jist of it was that a 22 and 17hmr optima barrel length should be 18 inches. I bought an Anschutz 1517 with a two-stage trigger threaded.
I tried all ammo I could find and could not get not get this gun to honestly shoot under 1.5-inch groups. I tried 6 different ammo's both 20 and 17 grain. I was pissed and ready to wrap it around a tree. As I was leaving I found a box of A17 semi-auto ammo that I had for the Volquartzen. I tried the first group and placed one round on the paper. Top right target I was shooting at. I got pissed and walked my ass down to the hundred yard target as I was leaving for the day pissed off. What do I see, that it was actually all five rounds? It measured in the .2's........... the next five groups never made it over .35 and one was a .18................... I have been in love with this gun ever since. Its a killer out to 250. I absolutely love this gun.
It takes the slightest wind to move that round out to 100, shoots legit 5 round groups and most guns will be .8 to 1.25. I have had one gun that has honestly shot under the .5 and it was the most expensive with the best trigger that I could buy. If people are telling you that they consistently shoot .5 and you actually know them, go to the range and see them actually do it. It took me a long time to find a gun and Ammo that would actually do it.
I read an article that was very very detail and scientifically proven with data and the jist of it was that a 22 and 17hmr optima barrel length should be 18 inches. I bought an Anschutz 1517 with a two-stage trigger threaded.
I tried all ammo I could find and could not get not get this gun to honestly shoot under 1.5-inch groups. I tried 6 different ammo's both 20 and 17 grain. I was pissed and ready to wrap it around a tree. As I was leaving I found a box of A17 semi-auto ammo that I had for the Volquartzen. I tried the first group and placed one round on the paper. Top right target I was shooting at. I got pissed and walked my ass down to the hundred yard target as I was leaving for the day pissed off. What do I see, that it was actually all five rounds? It measured in the .2's........... the next five groups never made it over .35 and one was a .18................... I have been in love with this gun ever since. Its a killer out to 250. I absolutely love this gun.
It takes the slightest wind to move that round out to 100, shoots legit 5 round groups and most guns will be .8 to 1.25. I have had one gun that has honestly shot under the .5 and it was the most expensive with the best trigger that I could buy. If people are telling you that they consistently shoot .5 and you actually know them, go to the range and see them actually do it. It took me a long time to find a gun and Ammo that would actually do it.
Your results will vary depending on how well the machines are being run
at CCI and Winchester. They are the only manufacturers at this time.
Results can range from 5 in one tiny hole to 2 inches of spread at 50 yards.
I've found out of spec brass, irregular seating depths, canted bullets,
irregular case mouths and ES as high as 400 fps.
Also an occasional split neck can be expected.
Neither CCI or Winchester worries too much about quality control
from what I see on target and the chronograph.
It's varminting ammo. Fine for critter getting, not precision paper punching.
See the 6x5 thread for results.
You'll find my targets posted.
at CCI and Winchester. They are the only manufacturers at this time.
Results can range from 5 in one tiny hole to 2 inches of spread at 50 yards.
I've found out of spec brass, irregular seating depths, canted bullets,
irregular case mouths and ES as high as 400 fps.
Also an occasional split neck can be expected.
Neither CCI or Winchester worries too much about quality control
from what I see on target and the chronograph.
It's varminting ammo. Fine for critter getting, not precision paper punching.
See the 6x5 thread for results.
You'll find my targets posted.
My CZ 455 Varmint run sub 0.5" at 50 yds. I have shot 1" at 150 yds. All with CCI 20gr Gamepoints or Hornaday 20gr XTP, same ammo, CCI makes both. In my gun the 20gr bullets out shoot all the tipped 17gr bullets. A17 is close second with 17gr bullet.
Mark
I do wish I could I could find and purchase some consistent 17 hmr.
All these reports of sub moa results has me extremely envious.
I've been testing all the various flavors of 17 hmr
and results across the chrony and on target have been less than satisfactory.
At 100 yards 2 plus inches of spread for 50 shots is typical.
Visual inspection shows irregular brass, uneven seating depths
and in the cartridges I pulled apart
major variations in primer amounts.
I need to find some of that magic ammo.
Sadly it's not the rifle or skill that's the problem.
It's all about ammo quality.
All these reports of sub moa results has me extremely envious.
I've been testing all the various flavors of 17 hmr
and results across the chrony and on target have been less than satisfactory.
At 100 yards 2 plus inches of spread for 50 shots is typical.
Visual inspection shows irregular brass, uneven seating depths
and in the cartridges I pulled apart
major variations in primer amounts.
I need to find some of that magic ammo.
Sadly it's not the rifle or skill that's the problem.
It's all about ammo quality.
Justin,
Have you tried the 20gr bullets ? They are night and day difference in my CZ. My gun does not like the tipped bullets.
Mark
Mark, you've seen the 50 at 200 I've been playing with.
The 20 grainers were not even in contention for a thumbs up.
Chrony numbers were poor.
CCI doesn't have the qc in place to maintain consistent production tolerances.
Winchester has been worse.
It's rimfire, without adequate qc, you have no idea what will show up on target.
The 20 grainers were not even in contention for a thumbs up.
Chrony numbers were poor.
CCI doesn't have the qc in place to maintain consistent production tolerances.
Winchester has been worse.
It's rimfire, without adequate qc, you have no idea what will show up on target.
The problem with 17HMR ammo, it is hunting ammo, not match. Then I got heavy into long range Rimfire, a friend of mine just cracked, he was into IR 50/50. He knows how I am with centerfire guns, he said the best rimfire ammo made will drive me crazy. He was right.
I think my CZ barrel twist rate just likes the 20gr bullets.
Mark
I think my CZ barrel twist rate just likes the 20gr bullets.
Mark
It would be interesting to find a 100 yard indoor facility
and do an ammunition test of the 17 hmr.
The results would most likely be not as good as CCI or Winchester
would want us to know.
Imagine the results from a fixture in the Lapua computer recorded
lot testing facility in Arizona.
I'd pay to see the video from that one.
Imagine the targets and chronograph numbers.
Think of it, test 17hmr, 22wmr, 22lr
from a 24 inch 1.25 inch diameter match barrel in a vise
with a competition quality receiver and trigger.
Could you imagine the pain it would cause for internet rimfire forums?
All those hard numbers and target results....
... I can hear the excuses now...
You didn't find the brand the rifle liked.
and do an ammunition test of the 17 hmr.
The results would most likely be not as good as CCI or Winchester
would want us to know.
Imagine the results from a fixture in the Lapua computer recorded
lot testing facility in Arizona.
I'd pay to see the video from that one.
Imagine the targets and chronograph numbers.
Think of it, test 17hmr, 22wmr, 22lr
from a 24 inch 1.25 inch diameter match barrel in a vise
with a competition quality receiver and trigger.
Could you imagine the pain it would cause for internet rimfire forums?
All those hard numbers and target results....
... I can hear the excuses now...
You didn't find the brand the rifle liked.
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We have a local monthly match of sorts, where 100yd targets are shot with a rimfire only. 3 shots at a 2moa target and then 3 shots at a 1moa target. Pretty much all CZ455’s in 17hmr is what everyone uses, and the 15.5gr Hornady non-toxic is what seems to work the best. Winchester has a similar 15.5gr that is identical to the Hornady except less consistent. My experience with the NTX ammo is that about 1 in 15-20 will be a huge flyer or almost even a halfcharged round landing 6’ or more short of the target. Of course that only happens during my turn when the points count right.
I’m seriously wondering if my CZ 452 is finally shot out. I shoot a couple thousand rounds of Hornady 17gr every year at ground squirrels but rarely shoot groups. Usually just check zero couple times a year. It is still fairly accurate but I doubt I could get 1MOA groups anymore.
Is there a step up in accuracy before Anshutz? I’m not sure I can justify that price point even with the amount of rodent control I do with it. My CPA loves it when I tell him to write off another rifle...
Is there a step up in accuracy before Anshutz? I’m not sure I can justify that price point even with the amount of rodent control I do with it. My CPA loves it when I tell him to write off another rifle...
I’ve had a similar experience with the HMR ammo. I found the A17 stuff to be by far the most accurate. I went back to the BB store I had bought it at, and got 3 bricks with the same lot number. I picked up some more at a later date (still have the good stuff) and found it to be mediocre. Ot is truly hit-and-miss. I would try some Wipe-Out on the barrel first. The bullets are indeed tiny, but so is the bore right? I know I did mine a while back and was amazed at the amount of copper that came out on those tiny patches.
From the 1st version of the 6x5 with a Sav 93R in 17hmr at 100y
0.953"/0.910 MOA (JG26_Irish- Savage 93R/17HMR, 2/14/14, post 507) Ave 5 sh grp
0.653"/0.624 MOA (JG26_Irish- Savage 93R/17HMR, 2/14/14, post 507) Best 5 sh grp
That is just under 1moa at 100y. I never shot it much at 50y because that seemed too easy for the rifle. It is not a precise as my best 22's at 50y but is still in the slightly less than 1 moa range. At 200y is was about 1.30 - 1.60 best groups. That was in dead calm conditions. Seemed to group better with the 17g HP ammo. CCI was better than Winchester. The ballistic tips were less accurate but more effective on game so I use them more. Note: CLEAN your bore well. These tiny bores foul up fast and it does affect accuracy. Anytime I hear of a 17 rimfire not shooting well, I ask the owner to clean the bore and try it again. It makes a big difference. If Haystax wants to sell me that shot out CZ452, I will give it a good home.
Irish
0.953"/0.910 MOA (JG26_Irish- Savage 93R/17HMR, 2/14/14, post 507) Ave 5 sh grp
0.653"/0.624 MOA (JG26_Irish- Savage 93R/17HMR, 2/14/14, post 507) Best 5 sh grp
That is just under 1moa at 100y. I never shot it much at 50y because that seemed too easy for the rifle. It is not a precise as my best 22's at 50y but is still in the slightly less than 1 moa range. At 200y is was about 1.30 - 1.60 best groups. That was in dead calm conditions. Seemed to group better with the 17g HP ammo. CCI was better than Winchester. The ballistic tips were less accurate but more effective on game so I use them more. Note: CLEAN your bore well. These tiny bores foul up fast and it does affect accuracy. Anytime I hear of a 17 rimfire not shooting well, I ask the owner to clean the bore and try it again. It makes a big difference. If Haystax wants to sell me that shot out CZ452, I will give it a good home.
Irish
My Ruger American Rifle Target Model using Hornady 17g Vmax at 50yds using bench and bags outdoors with swirling winds 3-6 mph. This was shot during initial break in, it's gotten better based on it's performance in the orchard with 331 Grey Diggers KIA'd.
It’s permanently attached to my truck so it can’t leave :wink:
Maybe it’s me that can’t shoot sub MOA anymore! But I’m always looking for an excuse. Seriously though, how many rounds is a .17HMR barrel good for? I’m sure I’m north of 10k easily
I have 10k+ through my Savage stainless Varminter and haven't noticed a significant reduction in accuracy. Rimfire ammunition variables make it tough to be scientific.
I haven't seen any data regarding HMR barrel life expectancy though. The velocity is up there but the not at a hyper barrel killing level, add the rimfire priming compound which to my understanding has glass in it which adds to throat erosion and ????
I had a Savage 93BV and it was 1 MOA on a calm day. I never could seem to get the small groups as everyone else, so I lost interest and sold it.
Here are some groups from some ammo testing I did several years ago... Measurements are edge to edge and include the bullet diameter. Outdoor testing was not done on the same day as the indoor testing, but with the same rifle. Marlin 917vs, Cabelas 3-9x40 scope.
Maybe the groups could be tighter, but- honestly- it does what I need it to do...
Maybe the groups could be tighter, but- honestly- it does what I need it to do...
I've got a savage that shot .75 out of the box. Haven't tested much yet. It was with A17. My father has an Alexander Arms AR that shoots sub .5moa - Also shooting A17. He did go through testing though.
I have a Savage 93R17 Stainless Heavy Barrel and it has been a terrible shooter since the day I bought it. I've shot every ammo I can get my hands on.
I moved it to a Match Target Rimfire stock and no change.
Ditched the two piece scope bases and mounted a 1 piece DNZ Game Reaper bedded with JB Weld and no change.
Told by many to stop cleaning the barrel, so today I went to the range and shot 250 rounds of various ammo and could not get a 100 yard 5 shot group under 3 inches. I'm at my wits end with this gun and shooting it just angers me. The funny thing was that the 1st 3 shots were a ragged hole and then they just opened up from there.
The only other thing I can think to try would be bedding the action somehow because even though I have the heavy bottom metal, the action does not bolt up very solid in the stock. I have no idea how to bed it and really don't want to throw anymore money at this thing.
I moved it to a Match Target Rimfire stock and no change.
Ditched the two piece scope bases and mounted a 1 piece DNZ Game Reaper bedded with JB Weld and no change.
Told by many to stop cleaning the barrel, so today I went to the range and shot 250 rounds of various ammo and could not get a 100 yard 5 shot group under 3 inches. I'm at my wits end with this gun and shooting it just angers me. The funny thing was that the 1st 3 shots were a ragged hole and then they just opened up from there.
The only other thing I can think to try would be bedding the action somehow because even though I have the heavy bottom metal, the action does not bolt up very solid in the stock. I have no idea how to bed it and really don't want to throw anymore money at this thing.
Years back I picked up a CZ 452 in 17 HMR. Out of the box with a cheap scope it was so so. Dinged the stock a bit and the cheap scope. Took it to my smith to steam out the dent in the stock. Ended up bedding the action, making sure the barrel was free floated and mounted a good scope. Went to the range and accuracy was considerably better. Tried various ammo and found that Hornady 17 gr was by far the best. Matter of fact, it's a real shooter.
I suspect most rimfires would benefit from a decent bedding job.
I suspect most rimfires would benefit from a decent bedding job.
I used to have a Marlin 917VR. All I did was put it in a Boyd’s tacticool stock and installed a Rifle Basix trigger. That thing shot dimes at 100.
Today was pretty nice and I had some time so I figured I'd try a few at 50 for you.
CZ 455 sporter (nicknamed "the laser") Weaver tactical 3.5-10, Hornady 20 XTP
I suppose I could do better at 100 with more scope, but this thing is mostly a corner rifle for unwanted guests.
Typical? I don't know. I sold the Anschutz when I got this one.
Top row 50 / bottom 100
Had a little bit of wind to adjust for
the perch
Maybe it's just my eyes. I used to be able to see much better at 10X/100
#needsmorescope
CZ 455 sporter (nicknamed "the laser") Weaver tactical 3.5-10, Hornady 20 XTP
I suppose I could do better at 100 with more scope, but this thing is mostly a corner rifle for unwanted guests.
Typical? I don't know. I sold the Anschutz when I got this one.
Top row 50 / bottom 100
Had a little bit of wind to adjust for
the perch
Maybe it's just my eyes. I used to be able to see much better at 10X/100
#needsmorescope
Nope, it's not y'er eyes Tucker. It's the ammunition.
Proof? Yeah, I have proof. My current hobby is 50 shots, with rimfire, at 200 yards.
Same rifle/setup/range across a chronograph. all shots at the same aimpoint.
Barrel cleaned after each box of 17 hmr. No excuses, no cherry picking.
All the information on the target. Every flavor of 17hmr I could get my hands on
The rifle is a barrel block CZ 455/set trigger/Lilja bull barrel/Mueller 8-32x44 target retical/Sinclair bipod
### Indicates best results
Browning 17 grain ballistic tip 17hmr Link to post
### CCI A17 17 grain 17 hmr Link to first 50 Link to second 50
CCI FMJ 20 grain 17hmr Link to first 50 Link to second 50
CCI Gamepoint 20 grain jacketed soft point 17hmr Link to post
### CCI TNT 17 grain hollow point 17hmr Link to post
CCI TNT Green Lead Free 16 grain hollow point 17 hmr Link to post
CCI VMax 17 grain ballistic tip 17hmr Link to post
CCI VNT 17 grain ballistic tip 17hmr Link to post
Federal V-Shok V-Max 17 grain polymer tip 17hmr Link to post
Federal V-Shok TNT 17 grain hollow point 17hmr ### Link to first 50 Link to second 50
Hornady NTX 15.5 grain lead free 17hmr Link to post
### Hornady V-Max 17 grain ballistic tip 17hmr Link to post
Hornady XTP 20 grain hollow point 17hmr Link to post
Winchester Super X 20 grain 17 hmr jhp Link to post
Winchester Varmint HV 17 grain polymer tip 17hmr Link to post
You have no control over the quality of the ammo produced on the CCI and Winchester lines.
They are the only manufacturers of the 17hmr. All the rest are just relabeled products.
I found irregular brass dimensions/case mouths, varied seating depths, canted bullets.
Pulled a few apart and the amounts of primer in each case is visibly different.
And then there's the occasional split neck to be expected. The qc just isn't there.
Proof? Yeah, I have proof. My current hobby is 50 shots, with rimfire, at 200 yards.
Same rifle/setup/range across a chronograph. all shots at the same aimpoint.
Barrel cleaned after each box of 17 hmr. No excuses, no cherry picking.
All the information on the target. Every flavor of 17hmr I could get my hands on
The rifle is a barrel block CZ 455/set trigger/Lilja bull barrel/Mueller 8-32x44 target retical/Sinclair bipod
### Indicates best results
Browning 17 grain ballistic tip 17hmr Link to post
### CCI A17 17 grain 17 hmr Link to first 50 Link to second 50
CCI FMJ 20 grain 17hmr Link to first 50 Link to second 50
CCI Gamepoint 20 grain jacketed soft point 17hmr Link to post
### CCI TNT 17 grain hollow point 17hmr Link to post
CCI TNT Green Lead Free 16 grain hollow point 17 hmr Link to post
CCI VMax 17 grain ballistic tip 17hmr Link to post
CCI VNT 17 grain ballistic tip 17hmr Link to post
Federal V-Shok V-Max 17 grain polymer tip 17hmr Link to post
Federal V-Shok TNT 17 grain hollow point 17hmr ### Link to first 50 Link to second 50
Hornady NTX 15.5 grain lead free 17hmr Link to post
### Hornady V-Max 17 grain ballistic tip 17hmr Link to post
Hornady XTP 20 grain hollow point 17hmr Link to post
Winchester Super X 20 grain 17 hmr jhp Link to post
Winchester Varmint HV 17 grain polymer tip 17hmr Link to post
You have no control over the quality of the ammo produced on the CCI and Winchester lines.
They are the only manufacturers of the 17hmr. All the rest are just relabeled products.
I found irregular brass dimensions/case mouths, varied seating depths, canted bullets.
Pulled a few apart and the amounts of primer in each case is visibly different.
And then there's the occasional split neck to be expected. The qc just isn't there.
Big berm on the north side of the range.
Stayed in the wind shadow.
Only worry is the eddy caused by the slope.
Stayed in the wind shadow.
Only worry is the eddy caused by the slope.
