Unexpected Problems During PRS Match?

PracticalTactical

Gunny Sergeant
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Minuteman
May 13, 2019
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I thought it would be nice to learn from peoples unexpected problems when shooting PRS competitions. Please share.

I'll start with one...

I was shooting from a stack of plastic culverts 90 degrees to the direction of the tubes. I was shooting a Cadex in 308.

After a shot or two, my magazine unexpectedly fell apart. I didn't know why at first, but all my ammo dumped so I changed to a fresh mag and continued.

Another shot or two later, the same thing happened again.

As it turned out, the grooves in the culvert were the perfect width apart to strip the floor plate off the mag during recoil.

I had to take better care to make sure the mag was not against the tube. A light recoiling rifle may not have had a problem here.

It also got me to thinking about some sort of secondary locking system to ensure the floor plate cannot unintentionally move.

What unexpected problems have you had?
 
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It also got me to thinking about some sort of secondary locking system to ensure the floor plate cannot unintentionally move.

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Not specifically PRS but I've run into the following:

- I had the safety on a Remington 700 Walker trigger come apart during a match, pieces fell out of the bottom and the lever was just free wheeling back and forth. I took some duct tape and put it over the notch in the stock to hold the safety lever forward in the fire position and finished out the weekend that way.

- I had the set screws on a McMillan saddle cheek piece loosen up during a stage and I didn't have the wrench with me to tighten them back down. So I took two pebbles about the right size to use as spacers and raise the cheek rest up while I duct taped the ends of the cheek rest to hold the everything in place.

- One time, the GearTie that I was using to secure my home made dope holder to my rifle had failed, the wire inside broke so it just flopped around. I laid it on a table to survey the damage and it snapped right up at the connection point to the plastic card holder. I cut the broken piece off, doubled it back on itself, wrapped it with some duct tape, and mashed the loop on the back with a rock so it wouldn't go anywhere, then just finished out the match.

Duct tape is hella good at fixing stuff....I always have some duct tape.
 
Have seen mags come apart a number of times. The duct tape could do the trick in preventing that.
not at a match and luckily at the loading bench i had a 12rd adapter come off. The screw holding it in place had backed out. Luckily i found it and was able to het another one and jam them together so it wouldnt back out again
 
Put 11 rounds in a 12 round mag and I don't carry a extra mag or have a spare few rounds mounted on my gun. I was super stable and nailed 9 out of 11 hits and I know damn well I would of had that last one. Well that 1 point cost me 7th place
 
I did not display the best performance today at a local rimfire match. I may or may not have called my rifle a cunt and threatened to chuck the magazine down the hill....I regret nothing. So, my problems probably started when I switched to my 10/22 at the last minute thinking I'd be fine because the gun is proven, the dope is proven, all is good right?

2nd stage of the day, I blaze through targets 1 and 2 but on target 3 I get a dead trigger so I charge the rifle and exacerbate the issue. It turns out that I had a failure to extract that I didn't notice so I was just shoving one bullet into the ass end of the other. I don't realize this until way too late and I end up dropping four points on the stage. There was a fair degree of cussing and frustration but with seven more stages to go I thought I could make up for it.

All hope for that was abandoned just two stages later when I showed up to a 10 round stage with 3 rounds in my magazine. Got through target 1, on target 2 I get my hit and I'm about to make my follow up shot and CLICK...huh weird (rack the bolt)....CLICK...the fuck? Pull the magazine and it's empty. All I said was "Well I'm done"....2 out of 10 on a stage still stings.

The day wasn't a total loss though, I shot clean or only dropped one point in six of the nine stages, hit 7/10 on the 476 yard side stage, and still managed a top 10 finish...yay.

Like most lessons, some are earned the hard way so here a couple of mine from today:

1. At least make sure the gun is lubed, maybe run a brush down the chamber, if you haven't looked at it in three months and you're taking it out for a match.

2. Carry a second magazine....

3. Always remember it's just a game...mess up a stage or two? Fine, focus on the stages to come and have a good time, laugh about it, make fun of yourself, and move on.
 
I thought it would be nice to learn from peoples unexpected problems when shooting PRS competitions. Please share.

I'll start with one...

I was shooting from a stack of plastic culverts 90 degrees to the direction of the tubes. I was shooting a Cadex in 308.

After a shot or two, my magazine unexpectedly fell apart. I didn't know why at first, but all my ammo dumped so I changed to a fresh mag and continued.

Another shot or two later, the same thing happened again.

As it turned out, the grooves in the culvert were the perfect width apart to strip the floor plate off the mag during recoil.

I had to take better care to make sure the mag was not against the tube. A light recoiling rifle may not have had a problem here.

It also got me to thinking about some sort of secondary locking system to ensure the floor plate cannot unintentionally move.

What unexpected problems have you had?
What brand of magazine allows the floorplate to be stripped off under recoil?
 
I showed up at a stage ready to shoot and watched a team guy with a blouse hold up the whole match for 45 minutes because he said two of the targets were broken because he hit them but they didn't flash.

After sweating my ass off for an hour I finally got to shoot the stage and when I engaged the supposedly broken targets they worked fine.

That was unexpected.
 
Some other issues and lessons learned from the match today.

1. Always keep a record of your score. Had an issue with scoring today that was luckily caught and fixed pretty quick. After the match, I totaled my scores up but when the final scores came out I noticed that my score was 11 points lower than my calculated score. About five minutes with the MD got everything sorted out, but it's something I wouldn't have caught if I hadn't recorded my scores on a separate sheet.

2. When the RO asks "Does the shooter understand the course of fire?" It's not rhetorical, if you aren't sure of something, ask to have the stage description read again to be absolutely sure. Today's issue was a stage that had four targets you shot with one hit each and then four other targets down a path that got two hits each. The shooter asked the RO "one hit per target?" while standing in the start box about to engage the first array and the RO, thinking he meant the target array in front of them, confirmed one hit each. So, the shooter shot those four targets with one hit each and when he proceeded to the other four where he shot them out of sequence and with one hit each as well, instead of two. The long and short of it is he dropped several points on that stage and pitched a bitch about it to everyone but the MD. That being said, he had his own copy of the stage description, we all went through the stage brief, and several shooters went before him so it wasn't hard to pick up what the game plan was. Basically, reading comprehension is key.

3. Don't trust the ranges that they give you, if possibly hit them with an LRF yourself. You don't know where they were standing when they lased the target, if they actually hit the target, or got the berm behind the target. I checked a couple targets today that were several yards off, in one case one target was 8 yards off. Now, with a centerfire rifle that doesn't matter but with a .22LR, the difference can be significant, possibly enough to miss the target entirely.

4. Sometimes people are retarded so be prepared for that. There were a couple instances today where there was confusion between the stage description and how the targets were actually arranged. For example, we had a stage with two targets (A and B), "A" was supposed to be the closer one that you started with and then transitioned to "B". Somehow, the "A" sign got put out next to the far target, which was supposed to be "B" and put the "B" sign next to the close one. So for a few minutes we weren't sure if we were supposed to actually engage the far target first and then the close one despite the stage description telling us to do the opposite. Mistakes happen, but if there's a question about the stage design confer with the MD, that's what they're there for.
 
What unexpected problems have you had?
Empty bounced back into the chamber causing a CF

misreading dope and being 1 mil high

bolt sliding forward on the way to prop putting a round into the chamber. Repeatedly tried to jam rounds into the back of that round

Among other things.

pulling the trigger on when not all the way into the target


Happens to everyone and you learn from every incident.
 
I wasted a whole stage by dialing the wind the wrong direction. I always hold wind but changed it up for no reason. I was half asleep from working the night before and had a brain fart. I got a big fat 0. I went back after the match was over and shot that stage and went 9/10
 
Not an error per se... but something I wish I had though of during my first match: "Don't be in hurry to miss"

For my first match I got caught up in trying to shoot all the shots before I timed out, vs taking all the time to set up good shots. If I had only shot 2 rounds per stage but took the time to make sure I hit the targets I would have ended up with 8 more impacts than I had. I am still pleased with my first performance but I wish I had slowed down and focused more on fundamentals.
 
Another mistake I have made is I like to run a pint sized gamechanger with sand fill for just about everything. One stage I knew that bag wasn't gonna be tall enough so I took my OG gamechanger out and set it next to the pint size. So it's my turn and sure enough I grab the wrong bag and that boned me on some points. Try to make a plan but don't get so focused or start to have tunnel vision because you start to miss things like picking up the right bag
 
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Slapped a Magpul AICS mag into my RPR and burped 2 rounds into the action. Learned on the clock that E lander 6.5 Grendel mags do not do well when dirty. As an RO, most of the problems I’ve seen have been with the magazines failing, actions not feeding well, and mis-dialing dope.
 
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Ive Dialed .6 instead of 1.6
Grabbed a half loaded mag from previous stage instead of a full one.
Torched one off before I was all the way on target... Damn new comp trigger.
Went up with scope bikini still on.
Typical dumb shit that hopefully you only do once.
 
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“Shooter are you ready?”
”Yes.”
”Shooter, do you understand the course of fire?”
”Yes.”
”Beeeeeeep.”
”Ooh, this f’er is wobbly. Okay, where is the target? Ok. Got it. Close the bolt. Flip the safety. Click. Click? Run the action again. Click. WTF Click?!?!!”
”Shooter, you don’t have a mag.”
”FML...”

Yeah, I’ve done that a couple of times. Generally toward the end of a match that is dragging, when I’m hot and dehydrated, and sucking anyway.

RO’d a match and watched a guy clean the target rack, all except the first target. Unfortunately, it was hit to move on, and he did not engage the first target.
 
Yeah, i saw a shooter Saturday shoot 5/6 on one plate rack, then clean the second plate rack. The problem was you had to drop all the plates on the first rack before moving on to the second so he went from an 11 to a 5. Probably a combination of being too high in magnification and it being the last stage of the day.
 
I saw a guy at a match, somehow, forget to prime his brass… he loaded his mag for the first stage and quickly realized something was wrong.

Another guy used paint marker to mark his brass and I guess it was enough that caused pressure. I dunno I just know that after stage one he was frantically scrapping off the paint.

Not a PRS match, but a team match, the shooters complete their course of fire only to realize there was no spotters and the RO who launched them was just doing time.
 
Not a PRS match, but a team match, the shooters complete their course of fire only to realize there was no spotters and the RO who launched them was just doing time.

Damn, that’s rough, especially if it was a smoking run. If I’m running time I always ask if the spotters are up for that very reason because it’s not uncommon for the spotters to not be on glass in between shooters and they‘ve wondered off to have social hour, get a drink, load mags, etc..

I was shooting a PRS club match and before we started one of the stages the spotter says something to the effect of “I’ll do the best I can but I’ve never spotted before and I don’t have the best eye sight”. I stopped right there and asked the MD if it was possible to get someone else to spot that knew what they were doing. It wouldn’t have been fair to the shooters or that spotter if he attempted to spot during that match, it would’ve been a total shit show, especially amongst the jersey crowd. Luckily some of the other competitors had spotting scopes and stepped up to help spot for our squad. I sympathize with MD’s that struggle to get enough RO’s and spotters but damn, sometimes you need more than a warm body with a pulse.
 
A buddy of mines qr bipod spring broke, so mid stage his bipod was shifting under loading, and then when he reposition it simply fell off.

I had arca rail come loose, simply user error, forgot to tighten the back 2 screws and as I’d rotate slightly, the arca would separate from forend putting immense pressure on the fore end making it extremely difficult to hold without additional wobble from fighting it.
 
A buddy of mines qr bipod spring broke, so mid stage his bipod was shifting under loading, and then when he reposition it simply fell off.

I had arca rail come loose, simply user error, forgot to tighten the back 2 screws and as I’d rotate slightly, the arca would separate from forend putting immense pressure on the fore end making it extremely difficult to hold without additional wobble from fighting it.
Oh yeah, forgot - I ripped an atlas off the arca adapter plate coming off a rooftop transitioning to prone. Took my shots off the rooftop and when I pulled my big ass up off the platform to go prone my bipod was still hanging off the front of the prop. Pulled the screws & threads right out. Tapped the bipod, put in oversized screws and now use it as a backup since I found the importance of having one on standby when in need!
 
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Left my bipod at home before a match. Learned the importance of having a checklist to get all of the gear together before walking out of the door.

Left my boots another trip- after rains that turned the range into a lake.

Went to a match with a suppressed rifle, with insufficient testing done on the affects of the suppressor on the accuracy of the rifle. Shot 1/2 the score that I expected.
 
Shot one stage where I dialed for all the targets. Next stage I used holdovers, was about 4 shots in wondering why I was missing everything before I realized I hadn’t zeroed my scope back out from the previous stage.
 
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Case head separation. Dropped 6 on that stage. By the time I got it out I rushed to the next stage and dropped another 6. I had gotten 3 others out before on other people's rigs but this one was terrible stuck in there. Would never have run the brass normally, knew it was at the end of it's life but got caught between barrels with my pants down this last ammo crisis.

Couldn't find the kestrel before the first stage on day 2. Packed up camp and it got tossed deep into a duffel bag it took forever to find. Need to update hard data dope cards and stay organized.

Worst others that I've seen was launching a can, 3 other case head separations, broken firing pins and broken bolt stops. Another very odd one last match we had twice in our squad different receivers have the cocking piece unscrew while firing.
 
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Had the bolt shroud on my RPR come lose, allowing the bolt to de-cock, preventing me from closing the bolt, so that I could fold the stock, to retrieve the loose bolt shroud. Had to remove the stock and receiver extension between stages to repair the rifle. Enough tools- minus a vice- to build an AR are in my match kit.
 
Found a single round leaking powder from an unprimed primer pocket. Whoever said “fresh ammo is the best ammo” spent too much or too little time loading the night before a match.
 
Left chamber indicators in and not put a mag in are some of the more minor ones. Had a stage one time that was 4 positions and you could see the target from 3 of them and the 4th position you couldn’t. The MD painted a red mark where the target was on the dirt berm above the target so you could see the mark from the last position. All you had to do was measure the distance from the mark to the target using your reticle. I measured it at 2 mils and didn’t miss the target on the first 3 positions. Go to the last position with my dope dialed and hold directly on the red marker instead of 2 mils low…
 
What?? You mean I was supposed to hit the targets???

Obvious miscues. 1. Hit the stage with only three rounds loaded (ten round stage). 2. When using elevation knobs when shooting at different range targets. Starting the next stage when forgetting to reset the scope.
 
During my first match I had a classic SNAFU as well. I needed ten rounds for a stage & loaded all mags to capacity, - except the one I’d just used. I grabbed a mag w/ three rounds while needing 10. I got good hits w/ the first three rounds & “click!” I thought I short-stroked the bolt, ran it again & “click.” I looked up to find an empty mag. I’m thinking “Oh shit.”

I had a few loose rounds in my pocket & dropped the mag to reload. I threw a round in the chamber, etc. Big PITA! I unloaded, showed clear & walked off the stage before I dropped the rifle or some other unsafe shit happened.

*Nobody cares if you screw up a stage & you can laugh about it later. The important thing is to not become a safety violator.

However, another local match I was shooting great for the day. So, I’m feeling confident when I get to stage 5. I’d hit 2/3 66% IPSCs at 600 yards from a tank trap. Out of nowhere, my RO says “You’re like 1.5 MIL left!” Next round, same thing. Next round, 1 MIL right. I finished the stage w/ 2 hits. I just shook my head & chalked it up to shooter’s error.

Moving along to the next stage, I should’ve gotten at least 6/8 at my skill level. I got a zero & used my Mulligan. I felt really good about my fundamentals & wind calls. I zeroed it again. I sat the gun down for a breather & to think on it a minute as I was just lost. Two other shooters looked at the gun & realized my base had come loose. Mechanical issues are real & sometimes out of our control.

*I’ve since upgraded to a new action w/ an integral base.
 
Most recent match for me, I forgot to hold over some targets on stage 1 and had the wrong gun profile in the kestrel for the first 2 stages so my dope was off even if I had held over. I couldn't find a target on stage 3 till half way through my time because it blended in with the terrain and I could not see it powered down. I had to zoom in and scan to find the target on the 3rd stage. Then found out my zero was off and I corrected based on the spotter feedback after stage 3. Shit show to start but everything started to smooth out after the first three stages.
 
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Did the same thing with a mag, 3 or 4 rounds and realized I was empty, single loaded from a sap two rounder then walked away kicking myself in the ass as this was the best I had shot all day, and I run out of ammo.

Had a buddy that some how jacked his windage know around and was so far off target couldn’t even begin to spot misses and adjust. This was after he decided to not check zero before match.
 
Friend of mine at a 2 day match was running his 223 rem dope on his kestrel when he was infact shooting his 6.5 creedmoor. Couldn't figure out why shit wasn't working. About 2 or 3 that afternoon he realized he was running the wrong dope. This is a guy who regularly wins regional matchs so he's no slouch, happens to every body
 
Wrong gun loaded in kestrel
half loaded mag
premature discharge (that was negligent, but on the berm, still paid the price)
failing to reset dope to the zero stop and then trying to hold dope
changed extractor and didn’t test it first (failed to eject)
 
Let's see... at one PRS match we figured out only after the first three shooters that impacts were being called for those shooters at a stupidly nearby and similar target being fired at by the group at the next stage. It was odd because the first three shooters - including me - were beginners and this was the days first stage for our group yet we all got at least 6 impact calls (and the target in question was at about 712 yards). When a competitive shooter got to the line, he didn't get impact calls for shots I watched him hit using his binoculars. I was the one that called out the issue. I re-shot because I brought enough ammo to do so and ended up with an official score of 4 out of 10, haha. The guys who didn't reshoot kept their score.

I also tend to have the issue of my sunshade unscrewing. I use the sunshade to rest my hand for stabilization (not because I've ever actually needed a sunshade). And in a few instances I've had my hand on it about to fire my first round and it pops off. Learned to check between rounds.

And finally... I drove 2 hours and stayed in a hotel room the night before for a PRS match I didn't sign up for. I was signed up for the next one. :cool:
 
Shoot first target, transition to position 2 target 2, forget to adjust elevation.
Lose track of target order.
Shoot at wrong target.
Start stage with scope covers on.
Hold under instead of over.
Shoot a match with a 9 lbs. .308
Suck in general....... LOL
 
I've shot the wrong target or in the wrong order before.
Forgot to dial dope between targets
But my favorite of all my failures was the last match I shot. I'm 2nd or 3rd up on the first stage of the first day. "Shooter ready" "Yup"
I get into position, run bolt right into my chamber flag. Pull chamber flag, run bolt forward again only to realize I didn't even put a mag in. I did better from then on but man those first stage jitters can get to a guy.
 
At the First SOA Match (2002) I was using a load made up by a teammate. I tested it and It was too hot, so I decreased my loads by a whole grain and tested it again. It still seemed hot, but the bolt lift wasn't too bad, so I went with it and zeroed the gun for the new load. This all transpired before the trip to NM.

Arriving at Whittington and two days into the match, the ambient temp went up to the higher 90's, and I started blowing primers. At one point, the extractor gave up and went away. I had no alternate source of ammo, so I had to continue with what I had. BUT!!!! a colleague handed me a paint can opener hook. By reaching into the bolt lug recess, I could hook the case rim and manually extract the cartridges. I ended up finishing the stage OK, but was rattled by the experience. That was as strange as I had ever seen before or since.

This method should work on most turn bolt actions, and I never I leave for the range without one of those hooks in my range bag. Needless to say, I have revised my acceptable degree of primer flattening since then, and I now give a more conscious mind to environmentals both during load development, and during actual range work/matches.

Upon long reflection since then, I have abandoned any adherence to hot loading or dependence on maximum velocity as an accuracy tool.

In simple fact, no matter whether running a peak velocity or a mild one, the shooter must still accommodate wind and drop to some degree, and trying to beat the wind with some extra ergs of energy may actually be a fool's pursuit. You still have to adjust for drop and drift, and now you also have accelerated bore wear. I put this philosophy to work when I bought my Lothar-Walther custom 260 barrel in 2003. Although I can easily get 2850fps from it with 140's, I changed over from H-4350 to H-4831SC, and now run at about 2700-2750fps. Either will get me to 1000yd supersonic, and while drift is greater, it is so only by a constant proportion, and is no harder to accommodate than 2850fps. FWIW, new in 2003, I'm still shooting it to this day, and have several years worth of 1Kyd F Open League shooting at Bodines into this barrel. Velocity-wise, my sole remaining concern with velocity is that the bullet arrives on target at 1300fps or greater.

...and now, living at about 4400ft ASL here in SE AZ, reduced air resistance has the effect of shooting through only 85% as much air as at 0ft ASL. Performance difference is easily visible on the 1000yd target. But age has taken my beauty, and sin has left me adrift on an ocean of medical concerns, so I no longer compete. A shame, but we'll all get there some day...

Greg

PS Not PRS, but it's something that could happen in any comp, so....
 
Oh I've done them all. If you shoot enough things happen.
Shot the wrong target - too much power and last stage
Search for targets in the wrong canyon
Didn't reload a magazine after a stage
Used dry erase and it.rubbed off staging the gun
Having a reshoot and skip a position on the reshoot - went from 8/10 (time called early) to 4/10 when I hadn't missed a target in both passes
Of course not holding on holdover targets
Travel across country and show up for the shoot sleep-deprived.
Taking backup ammo that the gun wasn't zero for use, .3 low and left
Then the basic issue of place a bag and having it fall through the window and outside the conex box.

But great shooters just power past the issues, I'm not one of them but just a mid pack shooter. We all have issues, it is what you do after the issue arises.
 
Well, we'll go with this weekends match.

When I was the RO for a stage, I asked "Shooter ready?" and they said "Yes!" I replied "Shooter ready?" and they knew something was wrong. No mag, and chamber flag in. That would have been a fun fix if he saw the empty mag well and not the chamber flag first.

On my part, what I've done in the last 2 years:
#1 is if you use AW double stack mags, and run your brass super clean in a wet tumbler....gingerly insert the magazine into your rifle. Don't load it like an AR-15, or you'll have multiple rounds pop out of the magazine upon insertion. I ended up getting a triple feed Brazzers special.

#2 Scope covers closed while raining. I'll never do that again. It caused the glass to fog up, and I couldn't see worth a crap on a stage. Just let the rain hit the lenses. You can clean them well enough later.

#3 Making sure not to lose your match book.

#4 If you clean your rifle, double check everything before a match, including your zero. I did a light cleaning, didn't realize I got a bit of carbon on the threads of the suppresor mount...end cap strike happened when I was trying to zero the next day at the match. Ended up burning 40 rounds to find out why my POI was all over the place. Took the suppressor off, had to run the match with a brake I never used and a gun that didn't have a zero.
 
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Friend of mine at a 2 day match was running his 223 rem dope on his kestrel when he was infact shooting his 6.5 creedmoor. Couldn't figure out why shit wasn't working. About 2 or 3 that afternoon he realized he was running the wrong dope. This is a guy who regularly wins regional matchs so he's no slouch, happens to every body

I've done that, but with a 6 Creed. My 223 trainer was close enough on velocity that the data didn't look off on the first couple of stages due to shorter targets, but it was still juuuust enough to miss. A lot.
 
Put 11 rounds in a 12 round mag and I don't carry a extra mag or have a spare few rounds mounted on my gun. I was super stable and nailed 9 out of 11 hits and I know damn well I would of had that last one. Well that 1 point cost me 7th place

I have several of these, for good reason. The cheapest stage insurance you can buy...




I always get distracted thinking through any misses after a stage and forget to reset to zero. Pull up to the next stage, go "well, it's just a few mills I'll hold it" and proceed to shoot way high or low.