Uniquetek Clamped Dillon Toolhead

[dan46n2]

I haven't tried out the clamped toolhead these guys have and am just thinking out loud here. I thought about the way the original Dillon toolhead was designed and seems to me to be a better design. The slight movement the toolhead has from being pinned rather than clamped acts similiar to how a Forster Co-ax press does with the moving case holder. The difference here is the toolhead can move slightly to align better with the cases.

Anyone else agree with this?

 

[former naval person]

Re: Uniquetek Clamped Dillon Toolhead

I do.

 

[memilanuk]

Re: Uniquetek Clamped Dillon Toolhead

Kinda depends on what all you have going on at each station. Having the strain/force of the sizing station pushing the toolhead one way has the potential to adversely affect the business going on at the seating station. Being quite a bit more delicate it tends to lose such confrontations

What works pretty well though is to use the tool head clamping setup in combination with floating the individual dies the way Tubb described in his book some years back... which is how Whidden set up the 550/650 tool heads that he sells. Clamp the head to the frame to keep things relatively level and stationary, and then float the individual dies. The logic being that its fairly unlikely for four individual holes on a mass-produced hunk of aluminum to be aligned 100% correctly, so its better to let them float and find their own centers. I've got one or two of his earlier ones, and a couple of his newer CNC machined heads... they work *very* well for the semi-progressive loading I do with my 550.

YMMV,

Monte

 

[dan46n2]

Re: Uniquetek Clamped Dillon Toolhead

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: memilanuk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Kinda depends on what all you have going on at each station. Having the strain/force of the sizing station pushing the toolhead one way has the potential to adversely affect the business going on at the seating station. Being quite a bit more delicate it tends to lose such confrontations

What works pretty well though is to use the tool head clamping setup in combination with floating the individual dies the way Tubb described in his book some years back... which is how Whidden set up the 550/650 tool heads that he sells. Clamp the head to the frame to keep things relatively level and stationary, and then float the individual dies. The logic being that its fairly unlikely for four individual holes on a mass-produced hunk of aluminum to be aligned 100% correctly, so its better to let them float and find their own centers. I've got one or two of his earlier ones, and a couple of his newer CNC machined heads... they work *very* well for the semi-progressive loading I do with my 550.

YMMV,

Monte </div></div>

How do you float the dies on the toolhead? Can this be done with the Redding Competition dies?

 

[memilanuk]

Re: Uniquetek Clamped Dillon Toolhead

http://www.whiddengunworks.net/toolhead.html

Works very well with Redding dies - need to replace the die lock ring with a Forster one, though.

Basically you drill a hole for a roll pin near the edge of the 7/8x14tpi hole for the die. Drill a corresponding hole in the die lock ring (Whidden uses a milled slot). Put the lock ring on the die one or two threads,then slide it over the pin. Continue threading the die in as per usual and tighten the lock ring when you get it set. In this way the die has some latitude to 'float' or self-align as it takes up the slack in between the threads, but is limited beyond that small amount and cannot rotate due to the pin.

I thought I had pictures (close-up) of it around somewhere... can't seem to find 'em though.

 

[dan46n2]

Re: Uniquetek Clamped Dillon Toolhead

Seems like with the floating method it wouldn't make any difference if it was pinned or clamped though. I am going to give it a try, that floating setup looks promising.

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Re: Uniquetek Clamped Dillon Toolhead

Dillon states that having a little bit of slop is a good thing, as it acts as a self-centering function.

If Dillon wanted the toolheads rigidly clamped down, they would have designed the press that way.

I'm not saying that having his regular replacement THs wouldn't be neat, but his claim should be easily verifiable because he's claiming less runout which of course, can be measured.

Get 3 or 4 calibers, load up 20 rounds of each caliber on Dillon and Whidden THs and then measure runout, averaging those 20 in each caliber and on each TH and compare and contrast.

Simple...it either makes a difference, or it doesn't.

I don't see that info on his website, so I wonder if it's a solution to a non-existent problem?

Chris

 

[Agent Ronin]

Re: Uniquetek Clamped Dillon Toolhead

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChrisGarrett</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I don't see that info on his website, so I wonder if it's a solution to a non-existent problem?

Chris </div></div>

Looking beyond the general question of whether clamping is a good thing or a bad thing. From personal experience, using the Uniquetek Clamping kit with Dillon tool-heads that the bullet seating is more consistent.

I am away from all of my reloading notes so you'll have to just take my word on it. As for cartridge run-out I'll have to do an experiment in the coming weeks just for kicks.

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Re: Uniquetek Clamped Dillon Toolhead

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Agent Ronin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChrisGarrett</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I don't see that info on his website, so I wonder if it's a solution to a non-existent problem?

Chris </div></div>

Looking beyond the general question of whether clamping is a good thing or a bad thing. From personal experience, using the Uniquetek Clamping kit with Dillon tool-heads that the bullet seating is more consistent.

I am away from all of my reloading notes so you'll have to just take my word on it. As for cartridge run-out I'll have to do an experiment in the coming weeks just for kicks. </div></div>

No reason to doubt your experience.

I loaded up 50 155 Palmas and Scenars the other day. As per SOP, the COALs were up and down--no biggie.

I pulled out my 30 cal Stoney Point bullet comparitor and miced the 25 and 25 loaded rounds. They varied no more than .002", not +/- .002", just within .002" for each bullet type and I'd imagine that the SDs for the two bullets were closer to .001".

This all being done on a 15 year old 550b. Seating consistency isn't an issue on my floating Dillon TH.

I guess if you want +/- .00025", the clamping mechanism is worthwhile for you, I'm just thinking that it's not a big problem to begin with.

I should be getting a runout gage shortly, so it'll be interesting to see how my stock 550b does regarding this parameter.

Take care, Chris

 

[jasonk]

Re: Uniquetek Clamped Dillon Toolhead

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: memilanuk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I thought I had pictures (close-up) of it around somewhere... can't seem to find 'em though.</div></div>

http://s12.photobucket.com/albums/a210/milanuk/gun_stuff/whidden-tools/

 

[RADcustom]

Re: Uniquetek Clamped Dillon Toolhead

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: memilanuk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I thought I had pictures (close-up) of it around somewhere... can't seem to find 'em though.</div></div>

http://s12.photobucket.com/albums/a210/milanuk/gun_stuff/whidden-tools/ </div></div>

Holy $#*t, you searched his photobucket account and found pics he couldn't find.

Your search-fu powers never cease to amaze me.

 

[memilanuk]

Re: Uniquetek Clamped Dillon Toolhead

Ah. Figgered they were around there somewhere. Trying to find something five minutes before you head out the door to work never ends well... whether its pics, socks or keys

As a contrast to Chris' experience... for my .223 Rem ammo for short yard-line use (200-300yd offhand & rapid fire) I never paid much attention to OAL consistency as long as they fit in the magazine. I generally seat to an OAL of ~2.245-2.250" to ensure that they do indeed fit. For .308 Win or others where I may be seating into the lands, I started getting more picky. Sometimes I'd have no problems and the rounds would come out with pretty consistent seating depth, other times... not so much. My initial test with the Whidden tool head was not a happy one, as I saw 8-9 thou variation in seating depth vs. 2 thou max, usually well under 1 thou for my Forster Co-Ax. Runout was good, but seating depth sucked. I discussed it a bit with John Whidden, and he suggested trying the Uniquetek tool head clamp. I had been skeptical of that setup for most of the reasons mentioned already in this thread. Once i tried it though... the variations in seating depth went away almost entirely. At that point I was able to load semi-progressively ammo that for all intents and purposes measures the same as what I can produce on my Co-Ax, and more importantly, it seems to shoot pretty well too. I plan on using this for most of my .223, .308 & 6x47L ammo. I need to get some more tool heads set up to use for other calibers as well. Probably my xmas present to myself

 

[dan46n2]

Re: Uniquetek Clamped Dillon Toolhead

There's a guy in the link I posted below that measured the slop of the pinned toolhead and found it to be .013, however he said it was consistent so as far as seating goes there should not be any variation from the pinned toolhead.

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-425452.html

I'm wondering if simply adding an o-ring like lee does to some of their dies to allow them to align would be a much cheaper solution than the Whidden floating toolhead. Seating depth isn't a problem for me since the ogive to tip measurement is so insconsitent to start with on the bullet and the tip to base mmeasurement is all I'm concerned with loading for ammo to go into magazines. The runout though could be improved. It just doesn't make sense that clamping the toolhead with the floating die setup will improve runout. Once the brass enters the floating die everything is aligned and won't move so how would a clamped toolhead change anything? As far as vertical movement at least from one persons measurement is consistent with the pinned toolhead. Either way it should not affect runout.