Gunsmithing UPDATE: 700 LTR w/ Seekins DBM & Alpha won't feed

[redhead522]

Hello everyone,

I have a Remington 700 LTR lefty in 308 winchester. I had it inletted for a Seekins detachable bottom metal magazine system. The gunsmith I sent it off to has a CNC machine with the specs for the Seekins system. I purchased three Alpha mag type 1 magazines. I'm using Federal Sierra Matchking BTHP Gold Medal Match ammo. For some weird reason, only 1 of the 3 magazines will feed properly though.

I'm not really sure if this is an inletting issue or a magazine issue. My immediate thought is a magazine problem, but I figure they're sensitive to the inletting. I can't visually see any difference between the magazines. With the 2 that don't feed properly, the bolt passes over the round when I try to cycle it.

Should I contact Alpha mag or my gunsmith with this? Has anyone else encountered this?

<span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">UPDATE: Thanks to 2156SMK, I spread the magazine lips with a set of channel locks. This did the trick and fixed the problem. They feed flawlessly now.</span></span>

 

[2156SMK]

Re: 700 LTR with Seekins DBM & Alpha mags won't feed

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redhead522</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For some weird reason, only 1 of the 3 magazines will feed properly though.

I'm not really sure if this is an inletting issue or a magazine issue. My immediate thought is a magazine problem, but I figure they're sensitive to the inletting. I can't visually see any difference between the magazines. With the 2 that don't feed properly, the bolt passes over the round when I try to cycle it.</div></div>

Do this...

Load all 3 mags full.
Stand them up on the table with the rear ends facing the camera.
Take a close-up picture of the back side with all 3 mags perfectly aligned on the horizon and post it here so we can see how much of each case head is showing in each mag.

 

[JB02]

Re: 700 LTR with Seekins DBM & Alpha mags won't feed

Did you try feeding them with AICS mags or accurate mags? That would help narrow down the problem.

 

[redhead522]

Re: 700 LTR with Seekins DBM & Alpha mags won't feed

The magazine on the far right is the good one. There's not much difference from what I can tell.

I did notice a difference from how the round points. In the good magazine, the round is more upright. This is a side view of the good magazine.

Here are the bad magazines:

 

[redhead522]

Re: 700 LTR with Seekins DBM & Alpha mags won't feed

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LT JGB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did you try feeding them with AICS mags or accurate mags? That would help narrow down the problem. </div></div>

I haven't gone this route yet. Alpha mags seemed too good to be true. I heard all positive reviews on them, and 10 rounds in a short magazine with a single feed at the top was a nice sales pitch.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: 700 LTR with Seekins DBM & Alpha mags won't feed

Borrow an AICS magazine and see how it feeds.

 

[redhead522]

Re: 700 LTR with Seekins DBM & Alpha mags won't feed

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Borrow an AICS magazine and see how it feeds. </div></div>

I don't know anyone that owns one, I guess it may be worth the investment though.

 

[Glen Seekins]

Re: 700 LTR with Seekins DBM & Alpha mags won't feed

Is this a duplicate post? Seems like i responded already...its been a long few days.

We test with genuine stamped AI mags. If installed properly we have never had an AI not work. The AI mags even allow a bit more wiggle room for the install to be a little "off" and still function perfectly. I cannot say the same for other's that fit into an AI mag well.

 

[JB02]

Re: 700 LTR with Seekins DBM & Alpha mags won't feed

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redhead522</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Borrow an AICS magazine and see how it feeds. </div></div>

I don't know anyone that owns one, I guess it may be worth the investment though.</div></div>

If I was you I would buy one. I know two other shooters here in the CT area that have had problems with alpha mags, and I have had issues with them as well. Take a look at this thread:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3495435&page=1

 

[2156SMK]

Re: 700 LTR with Seekins DBM & Alpha mags won't feed

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redhead522</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I did notice a difference from how the round points. In the good magazine, the round is more upright.</div></div>

Have you checked to see how much play there is when you push/pull a latched-in empty magazine into the action?
If you have a bunch of up/down movement (more than say 0.030"), you can fix that by inletting deeper or getting a longer magazine catch.

The rounds look low to me in all 3 of those mags, but I am more used to working with genuine AI mags.
If there was not excessive up/down slop in the magazine fit, I would be tempted to spread the magazine lips out perhaps 0.010" to 0.015" or so so that the rounds all sit a little higher.
Ideally, I would like to see 2/3 of the distance between the outside edge of the primer pocket and the outside edge of the case be showing above the back edge of the magazine.
This should present the full distance between the outside edge of the primer pocket and the outside edge of the case to the bolt nose.
If you don't have at least half that distance engaging the bolt nose, the bottom metal needs to be inletted deeper or the feed lips opened up.

 

[redhead522]

Re: 700 LTR with Seekins DBM & Alpha mags won't feed

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 2156SMK</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redhead522</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I did notice a difference from how the round points. In the good magazine, the round is more upright.</div></div>

Have you checked to see how much play there is when you push/pull a latched-in empty magazine into the action?
If you have a bunch of up/down movement (more than say 0.030"), you can fix that by inletting deeper or getting a longer magazine catch.

The rounds look low to me in all 3 of those mags, but I am more used to working with genuine AI mags.
If there was not excessive up/down slop in the magazine fit, I would be tempted to spread the magazine lips out perhaps 0.010" to 0.015" or so so that the rounds all sit a little higher.
Ideally, I would like to see 2/3 of the distance between the outside edge of the primer pocket and the outside edge of the case be showing above the back edge of the magazine.
This should present the full distance between the outside edge of the primer pocket and the outside edge of the case to the bolt nose.
If you don't have at least half that distance engaging the bolt nose, the bottom metal needs to be inletted deeper or the feed lips opened up.
</div></div>

Thank you so much for your help! I took a pair of channel locks and spread out the magazine lip on one of the defective mags. That fixed the problem right away. I now feeds flawlessly.