UPDATE: A Ghost...

[Doric]

The background story.

I am the owner of a rifle that is a 'ghost'. They are not and have never been available on the US Military (or other) surplus market. The rifle I am referring to is – what I believe to be – a variation on a (genuine) USMC M40A1. Before you shoot me down, read on!

This rifle is birthed in the political deniability of the Cold War, when proxy wars were being fought in the far corners of the globe. At the time, despite being the pariah of the Western World, South Africa under the apartheid government was at the fore front of the battle against communist expansion and when the "enemy of my enemy is my friend..."

I was told that this is one of 3 rifles that was brought back to South Africa by a Special Forces team that received sniper training in the USA. From a time period and authenticity perspective, this appears in part to be borne out by the comments my original post received; thank you to those members who shared their knowledge.

There are a few differences from the standard USMC M40A1, namely, the absence of the action being 'opened up' on the side and charger slot / guide, as well as it having a standard Remington 700 safety. Given that this is not an ‘as issued’ M40A1 and was built for the team that trained there, none of this is surprising.

I have just reached out to a friend of mine who is an ex-SF operator, and one or two of whose contemporaries (late 70s) would in a likelihood be amongst those who received sniper training. He said he would make a few inquiries and get back to me; easier said than done, given that as you well know, SF communities all around the world are notoriously tight-lipped!

What I do know for a fact:

• McMillan has confirmed the authenticity of the stock
• Remington said that the action was made in 1976

Any additional information on this rifle, its individual components or who might have been involved in building it - as would information confirming or denying its (probable) authenticity – would be greatly appreciated.



Hope that this is of some interest.

 

[Random Guy]

Any additional information on this rifle, its individual components or who might have been involved in building it - as would information confirming or denying its (probable) authenticity – would be greatly appreciated.

Since you asked, I will provide the same advice you hear all the time about items at gun shows or on gunbroker "Buy the rifle, not the story." Absent written provenance, there is no way to know more about that rifle except the parts used, which were clearly commercial parts aside from the stock and Redfield scope.

As for the far-fetched story posted about it being used by Special Forces in effort to provide a sense of "political deniability" in South Africa - that appears at face value to be....completely nonsensical. Why? For starters, its a US-made commercial Remington rifle with a US-made/USMC-spec stock, a US-made scope mount, and a US-made Redfield scope that is marked "US PROPERTY" right on the top of the scope. Hence, its a defacto US military scope - and in this case an evaluation scope provided to the USMC in the late 1970s. So much for the bizarre theory of 'political deniability'! That rifles screams not only 'Made in USA' but the scope itself screams "I'm official US military property too!" So much for SF standard trade craft or the concept political deniability...

To be clear, I have no first-person experience regarding SF weapons, tactics and training, but here's what I have heard from those who do: A non-uniformed US Special Forces team operating with 'natives' in some place like South Africa, will be trained to use the same or similar weapons as the natives. The goal is to blend in, not stand out. For example, during the Cold War, if operating where Russian arms would be expected, and a sniper rifle was needed, SF guys could carry a Russian (or Chinese) SVD Draganov, or some other non-US weapon with an optic that will blend in with the military or para-military forces of that area. They will not be carrying a rifle that is clearly US made - with a the scope stamped "US PROPERTY"(!) - if a mission goal is to maintain deniability.

In contrast, and I don't know about any SF missions in South Africa 40+ years ago, but something European would presumably have been preferred if plausible deniability was a goal. Perhaps a post-war British sniper weapon (ie, L42A1) or something like an Austrian SSG-69 would be sort-of expected, and those were likely available to SF training groups. I do happen to know that US Special Forces (and the CIA) have access to a wide variety of most post WWII era foreign small arms, and they have training programs to familiarize operators with these weapons if sent on clandestine missions where deniability is a goal.

I like the rifle seen in this post. Its a neat early M40A1 replica - but there is no need to add a completely undocumented/bizarre story about the rifle being one of three super secret squirrel SF rifles used on a mission for "plausible political" deniability in South Africa. I did email a retired 1st SFG sniper instructor who went to work for Remington Defense after his military retirement, and he just emailed this comment with respect to the original post (lightly edited for brevity):

As to the "ghost story" I suspect it is just that mainly because by the 70's, Remington no longer made M40's, definitely not the M40A1s as they were all done at Quantico. Quantico was never in the business of building rifles for anyone other than the Corps. As to the SF connection, again more BS IMO ... it is highly unlikely that an M40 would have been built for So. Africa or whomever because again, Remington was not building them, so the rifle would have to have been built buy the USMC which means the SN would have entered into the USMC roles and would have been Federal property at that point. In this case, I would say "prove it" or it is a complete fabrication.

(One exception re USMC and sniper rifles for an outside entity: In the early 1980s one or more former USMC precision armorer(s) who were subsequently hired by the FBI as their gunsmith(s), did enjoy some level of collaboration/technical assistance with rifles made for the elite FBI Hostage Rescue Team. These FBI HRT sniper rifle builds kind-of resembled M40A1s, but those were FBI-owned Remington M700 rifles, and that's another story altogether).

Bottomline: As they say: Buy the rifle, not the story. The rifle speaks for itself - it appears to be an accurate replica of a transitional M40A1 using an early USMC stock and a neat evaluation scope, but it is clearly built on a commercial A-prefix M700 receiver. Neither Remington nor the USMC built any M40A1 sniper rifles for US Army Special Forces then, or now. Regardless, the vintage USMC stock and rare scope give it a lot of value. Enjoy it for what it is (minus the secret squirrel story).

 

[seanh]

The background story.

I am the owner of a rifle that is a 'ghost'. They are not and have never been available on the US Military (or other) surplus market. The rifle I am referring to is – what I believe to be – a variation on a (genuine) USMC M40A1. Before you shoot me down, read on!

This rifle is birthed in the political deniability of the Cold War, when proxy wars were being fought in the far corners of the globe. At the time, despite being the pariah of the Western World, South Africa under the apartheid government was at the fore front of the battle against communist expansion and when the "enemy of my enemy is my friend..."

I was told that this is one of 3 rifles that was brought back to South Africa by a Special Forces team that received sniper training in the USA. From a time period and authenticity perspective, this appears in part to be borne out by the comments my original post received; thank you to those members who shared their knowledge.

There are a few differences from the standard USMC M40A1, namely, the absence of the action being 'opened up' on the side and charger slot / guide, as well as it having a standard Remington 700 safety. Given that this is not an ‘as issued’ M40A1 and was built for the team that trained there, none of this is surprising.

I have just reached out to a friend of mine who is an ex-SF operator, and one or two of whose contemporaries (late 70s) would in a likelihood be amongst those who received sniper training. He said he would make a few inquiries and get back to me; easier said than done, given that as you well know, SF communities all around the world are notoriously tight-lipped!

What I do know for a fact:

• McMillan has confirmed the authenticity of the stock
• Remington said that the action was made in 1976

Any additional information on this rifle, its individual components or who might have been involved in building it - as would information confirming or denying its (probable) authenticity – would be greatly appreciated.

Hope that this is of some interest.

The short of it is there is absolutely zero way to confirm your rifles authenticity other than that of the person that was pulling the trigger. Sometimes those guys remember the serial numbers sometimes they make known mind to it.

I can tell you that there are plenty of what you called ghost guns that were used for some type of the operation that on first view of the rifle appear to be nothing special. Closer examination reveals different chambering Spec's, different twist rate, different materials, duplicated serial numbers... all kinds of shit.

If you bought the gun based on the story given to you... Maybe you're good decision maybe not. Yes said before by the gun. The story. The story is purely subjective as to value.

As to how operators work without an obvious US presence, well, put it this way... there isn't a rifle or pistol that hasn't been built to have ultimate precision and reliability for operative use.

Regarding your specific rifle. I can tell you this, if it was important or special in any way, you wouldn't have it unless you were the operator using said weapon system.

Regarding Quantico... they will build the weapon system for any operative of any service or alphabet agency. Kind of like working on your own shit in a shop after hours). So will any non communist country weapons manufacturer.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

Contact Bill Wiseman...IF he doesn't remember USMC building that rifle for the secret squirrel unit you referring to then you bought an unverifiable story.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[Doric]

pics or this gun is a ghost

Please see my earlier post, all it contains is pics.

 

[Doric]

Since you asked, I will provide the same advice you hear all the time about items at gun shows or on gunbroker "Buy the rifle, not the story." Absent written provenance, there is no way to know more about that rifle except the parts used, which were clearly commercial parts aside from the stock and Redfield scope.

As for the far-fetched story posted about it being used by Special Forces in effort to provide a sense of "political deniability" in South Africa - that appears at face value to be....completely nonsensical. Why? For starters, its a US-made commercial Remington rifle with a US-made/USMC-spec stock, a US-made scope mount, and a US-made Redfield scope that is marked "US PROPERTY" right on the top of the scope. Hence, its a defacto US military scope - and in this case an evaluation scope provided to the USMC in the late 1970s. So much for the bizarre theory of 'political deniability'! That rifles screams not only 'Made in USA' but the scope itself screams "I'm official US military property too!" So much for SF standard trade craft or the concept political deniability...

To be clear, I have no first-person experience regarding SF weapons, tactics and training, but here's what I have heard from those who do: A non-uniformed US Special Forces team operating with 'natives' in some place like South Africa, will be trained to use the same or similar weapons as the natives. The goal is to blend in, not stand out. For example, during the Cold War, if operating where Russian arms would be expected, and a sniper rifle was needed, SF guys could carry a Russian (or Chinese) SVD Draganov, or some other non-US weapon with an optic that will blend in with the military or para-military forces of that area. They will not be carrying a rifle that is clearly US made - with a the scope stamped "US PROPERTY"(!) - if a mission goal is to maintain deniability.

In contrast, and I don't know about any SF missions in South Africa 40+ years ago, but something European would presumably have been preferred if plausible deniability was a goal. Perhaps a post-war British sniper weapon (ie, L42A1) or something like an Austrian SSG-69 would be sort-of expected, and those were likely available to SF training groups. I do happen to know that US Special Forces (and the CIA) have access to a wide variety of most post WWII era foreign small arms, and they have training programs to familiarize operators with these weapons if sent on clandestine missions where deniability is a goal.

I like the rifle seen in this post. Its a neat early M40A1 replica - but there is no need to add a completely undocumented/bizarre story about the rifle being one of three super secret squirrel SF rifles used on a mission for "plausible political" deniability in South Africa. I did email a retired 1st SFG sniper instructor who went to work for Remington Defense after his military retirement, and he just emailed this comment with respect to the original post (lightly edited for brevity):



(One exception re USMC and sniper rifles for an outside entity: In the early 1980s one or more former USMC precision armorer(s) who were subsequently hired by the FBI as their gunsmith(s), did enjoy some level of collaboration/technical assistance with rifles made for the elite FBI Hostage Rescue Team. These FBI HRT sniper rifle builds kind-of resembled M40A1s, but those were FBI-owned Remington M700 rifles, and that's another story altogether).

Bottomline: As they say: Buy the rifle, not the story. The rifle speaks for itself - it appears to be an accurate replica of a transitional M40A1 using an early USMC stock and a neat evaluation scope, but it is clearly built on a commercial A-prefix M700 receiver. Neither Remington nor the USMC built any M40A1 sniper rifles for US Army Special Forces then, or now. Regardless, the vintage USMC stock and rare scope give it a lot of value. Enjoy it for what it is (minus the secret squirrel story).

Wow, talk about stirring up a hornets’ nest!

This was not a ‘smoke and mirrors’ attempt to create a backstory for the rifle, just the explanation that I received when I bought it.

When I posted this, I realised that the likelihood of finding out or confirming anything regarding the alleged provenance of this rifle is akin to winning the Lotto. See this for what I intended, an effort to find out more about it, not a deluded Walter Mitty ‘secret squirrel’ BS exercise!

Thanks to the feedback I received on my original post, I now know more about the rifle and its optics.

You are correct in that the Steyr SSG 69 is / was one of the ‘official’ sniper weapon systems used by the South African SF. In the 80s, it was also available locally on the civilian gun market.

I did not imply that any US SF elements were involved in this conflict. Other than the CIA, I am not aware of any US elements operating in Southern Africa at that time. What I said is that it was allegedly brought back by South African SF personnel that had received sniper training in the US; no more, no less.

The rifle was purchased ‘as you see it’, from a friend of mine and for the same price as a commercially available Remington SPS Tactical. Obviously, I opted to buy this rifle instead. It was only after I had bought it, that he related the account I posted.

Take it or leave it.

If it is as you say, an accurate replica of a transitional M40A1, it was one that was built a long time ago…

Whatever its provenance, I know one thing, it is mine!

 

[Harleystoo]

If you paid less than $1k, you got a good deal. Shoot it and enjoy.

 

[sandwarrior]

When I was going through pre-scuba up at Bragg (summer '83) I went with a few of the guys in the group that was putting on pre-scuba to the range in the days between that and the actual school down in Key West. I saw a NUMBER of Remington 700's on the range being used by military personnel. in a number of different calibers. That said, I know that there were re-barrelling operations going on. Either on base or local gunsmiths. My own gunsmith in NV did that. No doubt, SF had connections with McMillan back then to get stocks. So, it is plausible the rifle was built for what you say. But, it doesn't necessarily have to be "secret squirrel" either. They took the best equipment they could get their hands on and it wasn't always uniform with U.S. Military.

So first, as noted above, it probably DOESN'T have connections to PWS. It may well have an SF connection, but that is a one-off custom mix and match. It's .308 because that's pretty much the ONLY military round to be found down there. At least what a normal person would shoot. The DEA took those kinds of rifles into South and Central America. Those, to my understanding, were NOT built by PWS like the FBI rifles. So, they were sourced somewhere else too.

Second, the story may well be true about SF operating there. But tying the story to the rifle as it was told leaves some doubts. The "deniability" was probably more aimed at the American Public than foreign entities. Dislike of Aparteid was growing huge during the late '70's. The Soviets seemed to operate at will and with impunity against free countries. Aparteid wasn't really free but it was better than Soviet expansion. So, we stepped in. It's hard to say in that era as Carter was NOT one for using 'trigger diplomacy'. In fact he retracted almost half of the human assets in the intelligence world. There was probably already an operating contingent of SF there before him if this rifle was to make it there.

Third, as to plausibility, how many Rem 700's are in S. Africa? It doesn't seem like a popular rifle there as Mauser type actions are preferred. Especially built the way it is. How many other types of rifles are built that way there? That's a comparison you need to make before you buy the story behind that rifle. Most custom guns that end up in Africa anywhere are light and built with heavy calibers for Safari. The only light ones I've heard of are for weeding out pests. Not common for a heavy barrel to show up there. Some plausibility, maybe not the history you think it is.

 

[Doric]

Consequent to the feedback I have received, I realise that this rifle was built (it definitely wasn’t done locally in South Africa) by someone on your side of the pond; even if it was not at Quantico! Whoever did so was definitely well versed in the how and what of building a fit for purpose weapon of this type, not their first rodeo; this rifle is very accurate. Regarding the rest of the story of how it got here, I will probably never know.

As I mentioned earlier, I am not aware of any US SF elements operating in Angola. This is where the heaviest battles in Africa since the Second World War were fought. BS abounds, but true accounts of the conflict are available and make for very compelling reading. If anyone is interested, a good source is Bush War Books (www.warbooks.co.za). For the record, I have no interest in or affiliation with, them.

Remington rifles are readily available in South Africa. Even at the height of the arms embargo, a wide variety of firearms were available, including from the USA. I have a Smith & Wesson Model 41 that dates back to this period. At the time, serial numbers were often ‘removed’ and replaced with a local ‘WR’ (Weapons Register?) number, as was the case on my Model 41. I believe that this was to make it more difficult to ascertain the original source / supplier of the weapon and who contravened the sanctions.

South Africa has a very rich and diverse firearms culture, including in the manufacture of both sporting and military (you just have to look at ‘Forgotten Weapons’ on You Tube) weapons.

Amongst other things, I am a long in the tooth Wilderness Trails guide; 5 to 14 day backpacking trails, sleeping under the stars (no fences, tents, only a tarp shelter if it rains!) in Big 5 game reserves. I have used and had built a multitude of heavy calibre rifles, on a variety of actions and calibres. The rifle I now use…a D’Arcy Echols ‘Heavy Sporter Legend’ in 458 Lott!

ELR is alive and well in South Africa, with a couple of rifle smiths that do know what they are doing. Suitable optics, rifles, accessories etc. are available, even if their eye watering cost (an horrendous exchange rate of nearly R20 to one USD, 20% customs duty on imported firearms, plus an additional 15% VAT) involves the harvesting and selling of body parts. Add to this, the requirement that every firearm you purchase needs to be individually licensed; for a fee of course. Granting of the license is not a given and the process can take 6 months or longer. Depending upon the type of license, they have to be renewed every 5 or 10 years. Failure to do so is a criminal offence with very harsh consequences.

Never ever take your birth right or Constitution for granted…

 

[pmclaine]

If you are in SA I wish you fair winds and following seas....

I was expecting a racial holocaust there a short time ago when they were looking at land confiscations.

We had a baby sitter for our kids that was working for another family as a nanny. When her VISA ran out she went back to her home in SA and it seemed things were getting desperate for her.

Sad if that place fails. Be safe.

 

[sandwarrior]

Consequent to the feedback I have received, I realise that this rifle was built (it definitely wasn’t done locally in South Africa) by someone on your side of the pond; even if it was not at Quantico! Whoever did so was definitely well versed in the how and what of building a fit for purpose weapon of this type, not their first rodeo; this rifle is very accurate. Regarding the rest of the story of how it got here, I will probably never know.

As I mentioned earlier, I am not aware of any US SF elements operating in Angola. This is where the heaviest battles in Africa since the Second World War were fought. BS abounds, but true accounts of the conflict are available and make for very compelling reading. If anyone is interested, a good source is Bush War Books (www.warbooks.co.za). For the record, I have no interest in or affiliation with, them.

Remington rifles are readily available in South Africa. Even at the height of the arms embargo, a wide variety of firearms were available, including from the USA. I have a Smith & Wesson Model 41 that dates back to this period. At the time, serial numbers were often ‘removed’ and replaced with a local ‘WR’ (Weapons Register?) number, as was the case on my Model 41. I believe that this was to make it more difficult to ascertain the original source / supplier of the weapon and who contravened the sanctions.

South Africa has a very rich and diverse firearms culture, including in the manufacture of both sporting and military (you just have to look at ‘Forgotten Weapons’ on You Tube) weapons.

Amongst other things, I am a long in the tooth Wilderness Trails guide; 5 to 14 day backpacking trails, sleeping under the stars (no fences, tents, only a tarp shelter if it rains!) in Big 5 game reserves. I have used and had built a multitude of heavy calibre rifles, on a variety of actions and calibres. The rifle I now use…a D’Arcy Echols ‘Heavy Sporter Legend’ in 458 Lott!

ELR is alive and well in South Africa, with a couple of rifle smiths that do know what they are doing. Suitable optics, rifles, accessories etc. are available, even if their eye watering cost (an horrendous exchange rate of nearly R20 to one USD, 20% customs duty on imported firearms, plus an additional 15% VAT) involves the harvesting and selling of body parts. Add to this, the requirement that every firearm you purchase needs to be individually licensed; for a fee of course. Granting of the license is not a given and the process can take 6 months or longer. Depending upon the type of license, they have to be renewed every 5 or 10 years. Failure to do so is a criminal offence with very harsh consequences.

Never ever take your birth right or Constitution for granted…

Wherever there was Soviet Expansion, there were SF teams and CIA. That fact was kept under wraps pretty well. SF being in places gets a pass a lot of times here as A. they go by choice, and B. they aren't (supposed to be) directly in the conflict.

Your rifle could well be the ghost you think it might be. How to tie it to that is another matter. But, I can't imagine someone getting hold of an A1 stock, building the kind of rifle you posted pics of, then moving it to SA with all that paperwork without some kind of purpose.

As to birthright and Constitution, yeah that is under threat right now. We hope to retain what we have. But, stupid people keep doing stupid shit with guns then stupider (less brain cells operating) people provide the knee jerk reaction that we need to go around defenseless and have crime rates like countries that can't have arms. It costs a lot of money to defend from, and undo their unconstitutional laws.

Added: As pmc said, you stay safe as well!

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

Well unless it was exported illegally, the DDTC will have all the information on where it came from, who exported it, who imported it, etc etc...
Even .gov has to "normally" play by those rules

Send them a FOIA request seeking the DSP 5 for the make/model/serial number of your rifle.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[sandwarrior]

Hi,

Well unless it was exported illegally, the DDTC will have all the information on where it came from, who exported it, who imported it, etc etc...
Even .gov has to "normally" play by those rules

Send them a FOIA request seeking the DSP 5 for the make/model/serial number of your rifle.

Sincerely,
Theis

Good point. If they (SA) do "all that paperwork and research the individual" there has to be a trail to follow.

 

[Doric]

Not holding my breath about any paperwork, especially anything involving the sanctions busting shenanigans of the previous military structures! Even though they, the communists, lost the war, they 'won' the peace. The is not the forum for politics and I am NOT going there, other than to say that the bitter irony is the democratically elected government that liberated the masses, has done what they failed to do as a liberation organisation viz. cripple the economy and bring the country to it's economic knees. Will be following THEIS's suggestion and will let you guys know what transpires.

 

[sandwarrior]

Not holding my breath about any paperwork, especially anything involving the sanctions busting shenanigans of the previous military structures! Even though they, the communists, lost the war, they 'won' the peace. The is not the forum for politics and I am NOT going there, other than to say that the bitter irony is the democratically elected government that liberated the masses, has done what they failed to do as a liberation organisation viz. cripple the economy and bring the country to it's economic knees. Will be following THEIS's suggestion and will let you guys know what transpires.

How in the "F..." did they "win the peace"? They were the ones cutting off arms, legs, tits, etc. and wiping out entire villages. Goes to show what media can do for propaganda...

 

[deersniper]

How in the "F..." did they "win the peace"? They were the ones cutting off arms, legs, tits, etc. and wiping out entire villages. Goes to show what media can do for propaganda...

All that blood is on white liberal hands in Europe and US, using sanctions etc to let the savages into control.

Imagine the news coverage if South Africa’s crimes were white on black

 

[Doric]

If the mainstream Western media had the courage to publish the images and stories from some of the violent farm attacks that happen in South Africa.
Not to detract in anyway from what has recently happened and the furore it caused both in the USA and around the World, but it would make that look like a Freshman hazing gone wrong...
Won't happen.
It is four times more dangerous to be a farmer than a policeman in South Africa and it is a lot more dangerous to be policeman here, than in the States.

 

[Doric]

Scary thought, as a legal / licensed (hand) gun owner in South Africa, I am more likely to use a firearm in self defense, than the the average policeman in the USA...