Range Report UPDATE! FIXED! Anyone else have horrendous results with the new prime 130' 6.5cm ?

[Sniperwannabee]

Shot 260 rds of Prime since the lock down and it is the worst ammo i have ever shot out of my rifle. It is all over the place very inconsistent? I thought it might be something wrong with my rifle but I switched to the bulk pack of hornady AG that i always keep with me and had no problem hitting steel out to 950yds. Switch back to prime and cant hit a target if my life depended on it? Anyone else having issues? So far Ive shot multiple distance from 600-1125 and no luck being consistent at any distance. 130 FGM Bergers/140 ELD all excellent results and even 140 Agunners is surprisingly consistent out to 950, Barrel is standard 1-8 twist 24" hawkhill/PVA


UPDATE: see post #39 Prime does not like to be shot with other bullet fouling in my barrel. Even though other bullets held steady after shooting another brand. When I switched back to prime, groups would horrendously open up. If I clean the barrel and exclusively shoot prime all is well

ALSO appreciate great customer service from both PVA and Jim at PRIME (who reached out to me and talked to on the phone) to try to figure out problem

 

[tnichols]

There is no guarantee that YOUR will rifle like it. Move on and try other options.

 

[Luke]

FWIW my AI AT in 6.5CM doesn't like Prime either. I used to own a Gen 1 RPR 6.5CM and it would cloverleaf Prime ammo.

 

[Sniperwannabee]

There is no guarantee that YOUR will rifle like it. Move on and try other options.

way ahead of you

 

[JMGlasgow]

That Federal 130 shot really well out of my 25" Criterion barreled rifle. Average speed was 2926fps.

 

[kthomas]

Before I reloaded, my previous 6.5 creedmoor barrels much preferred 140 AMAX's and ELDM factory loaded ammo over the Prime. The Prime shot okay, but never as good as the Hornady.

The kind of chamber you have in your barrel will have an influence in what ammo it will like. I wouldn't fault Prime, but next time you order a barrel and want to shoot Prime, let your gunsmith know and they will get you set up.

 

[Broncovan]

Shot 260 rds of Prime since the lock down and it is the worst ammo i have ever shot out of my rifle. It is all over the place very inconsistent? I thought it might be something wrong with my rifle but I switched to the bulk pack of hornady AG that i always keep with me and had no problem hitting steel out to 950yds. Switch back to prime and cant hit a target if my life depended on it? Anyone else having issues? So far Ive shot multiple distance from 600-1125 and no luck being consistent at any distance. 130 FGM Bergers/140 ELD all excellent results and even 140 Agunners is surprisingly consistent out to 950, Barrel is standard 1-8 twist 24" hawkhill/PVA

I didn't have any luck with the Prime 130's.
Two rifles, an MPA rifle and a trued 700 with a Proof Carbon barrel. Neither liked the Prime. First, I thought I had a scope issue but they both shot very nice groups with Hornady ELDM's as well as Hornady American Gunner.
Not all was lost though, the main reason I bought the Prime was for the Peterson brass.

 

[Newbie2020]

Based on the success of the group buy, There’s plenty of guys on here that would buy your Prime 130s

 

[Dthomas3523]

Shot 260 rds of Prime since the lock down and it is the worst ammo i have ever shot out of my rifle. It is all over the place very inconsistent? I thought it might be something wrong with my rifle but I switched to the bulk pack of hornady AG that i always keep with me and had no problem hitting steel out to 950yds. Switch back to prime and cant hit a target if my life depended on it? Anyone else having issues? So far Ive shot multiple distance from 600-1125 and no luck being consistent at any distance. 130 FGM Bergers/140 ELD all excellent results and even 140 Agunners is surprisingly consistent out to 950, Barrel is standard 1-8 twist 24" hawkhill/PVA

Whats velocity and ES? What does it look like on paper at 100?

 

[Sniperwannabee]

Whats velocity and ES? What does it look like on paper at 100?

mv 2746
es 68

 

[ditter]

Had a friend with an 6.5 RPR and LRI barrel. Hated it. Couldnt shoot it fast enough and then immediately back to the ELDM. But lots of Norma brass left over.

 

[blbennett1288]

I had a Tikka that absolutely loved it. Then followed by a Rock Creek chambered for Prime on a TL3 that hated it. My AT/AX also hated it as well, not as bad as the TL3 but in the same ballpark.

The best mass produced factory ammo I have found is Berger’s offerings.

 

[Lowlight]

I bet your barrels are cut for a specific chambering

The only time I have seen this, the barrels were cut for something else

As an example, my LRI Barrel for my RPR is cut for a 140AMAX which shortly after was discontinued.

Odds are the chamber, it's not so much the ammo, as it is your rifle,

Look at it this way, the fact so many barrels work with it points to an individual issue and not a "AMMO" issue

 

[stello1001]

I'm just now trying a case of the old recipe Prime and while it isn't shooting bad, it's also not shooting great, just mediocre. I probably can't make an argument on Prime ammo based on this being that they now have a newer and better product. However, many have said that even the old stuff was really great. Just pointing out my experience.

Every barrel and every chamber will be different. I have a m70 in .223 (that has a shitty bedding job and is not making a 100% mate) that has shot about 9 different factory ammo types extremely well. That includes steel cased 77 grain Tulammo (this really surprised me considering it's the lowest/cheapest quality ammo lol).

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

I couldn’t get Prime 223, 6.5CM or 22LR to shoot well out of my Rifles.

Their group buys are attractive but they just don’t work well for me either.

Hand-loading was my solution.

 

[smacha538]

I bet your barrels are cut for a specific chambering

The only time I have seen this, the barrels were cut for something else

As an example, my LRI Barrel for my RPR is cut for a 140AMAX which shortly after was discontinued.

Odds are the chamber, it's not so much the ammo, as it is your rifle,

Look at it this way, the fact so many barrels work with it points to an individual issue and not a "AMMO" issue

Frank, LRI building my rifle as we speak. They chambered it using their “eldx” saami reamer. Is that what was used for your rifle?

 

[Lowlight]

Mine was done before the ELDX,

But that will mean you can't shoot Prime and that is part of these issues.

People have round specific chambers and they want to lament out loud, gee this doesn't work

I dont' chamber my rifles to a specific bullet if I can help it, the few I have dont' work with other loads

 

[Dthomas3523]

Ya. If you don’t have a saami chamber, all bets are off until you measure the chamber and see what you’re working with.

 

[acudaowner]

Its been a few months since I last tried prime 6.5 but it shot great the last time I did use it at least for me id say clean inspect and try again every company makes lemons from time to time specially when they are mass producing something . It could be the lot it came from being not so good or your gun does not like that particular ammo try another . I shoot mostly factory ammo and differances happen all the time between different lots . good luck on what ever ammo you get or try or what ever you decide to do .

 

[Jack Master]

What does a 100yd group look like with the Prime?

 

[bohem]

A few thoughts from someone that gets calls for troubleshooting help with barrels and bullets.

Questions first:
Is everything on the rifle tight? How does it shoot other ammo?

When is the last time you cleaned the rifle? A very nice gent called me the other day to tell me he was having problems with the Cayuga's not shooting in his 6.5 SAUM. But his normal 1/4MOA handloads were also shooting over an inch and he had not cleaned the barrel in about 700 rounds.

I suggested giving the rifle a cleaning, shoot a handful of foulers and try again. It immediately went from 3MOA to 5/8 MOA just by cleaning it and his already developed handloads were back near 1/4 MOA. He sent me a followup that the Cayuga's are now developed into a 1 hole load at 100yd.

Different types of ammo sometimes isn't compatible with the fouling left by other ammo. It might just need a little help from the operator taking care of the rifle to work better.

All else fails, the customer service at PRIME is excellent. If you have questions feel free to reach out to them, Jim spends all day on the phone talking to customers and is happy to assist anyone that needs it.

 

[seansmd]

What does a 100yd group look like with the Prime?

Same or better than eldm140 in my rifle.

When Spartan built it he asked and he set it to sammi, I don't want to ever reload.

 

[chrome]

Prime has been treating me well in 2 different PVA barrels. For what it is worth, these same barrels do not enjoy the 120gr bergers as much.

Both zero'ing @ 100 yds:

5 x shots with Prime 130s out of a PVA 16.5in 6.5 bbl

10 x shots with Prime 130s out of a PVA 22in 6.5 bbl:

 

[Newbie2020]

Is his barrel’s poor performance with the Prime 130s because his chamber has too much jump to the lands?

I ask because my 6.5cm Seekins Havak really likes the Hornady 147gr ELD-Ms and I wondered if it therefore probably won’t like the 130s?

 

[Sowastrong Industries]

mv 2746
es 68

same here...SAAMI chambered by PVA, 22”

 

[Dthomas3523]

Got our group buy ammo today. My son printed a good enough group with his 22” PVA chambered bbl(just over 200rds) on a vector action. No special chamber requested, SAAMI. We aren’t done trying to love this stuff but the ES and velocity has been less than impressive so far. The RUAG made stuff from previous lots that friends used was the selling point for us, this stuff hasn’t met that rep, slow and horrible ES. Just pointing out our Objective results.

Not sure how the chamber specs will affect an ammo’s ES or velocity... maybe someone can shed some light on that for me.

Few ways. If you happen to be touching lands (have seen it happen with factory ammo and a short freebore), the pressure jumps up significantly.

The more oversized the chamber is compared to the brass, the more pressure is used expanding the brass and less pushing the bullet.

If you’re loading and have to push the bullet further into the case, that decreases case capacity which affects pressure.

I’m sure I’m missing some

 

[chrome]

Prime has been treating me well in 2 different PVA barrels. For what it is worth, these same barrels do not enjoy the 120gr bergers as much.

Both zero'ing @ 100 yds:

5 x shots with Prime 130s out of a PVA 16.5in 6.5 bbl

View attachment 7306802

10 x shots with Prime 130s out of a PVA 22in 6.5 bbl:
View attachment 7306808

Forgot to add:

22in bbl = FPS/SD/ES = 2782/18.2/48
16.5in bbl = FPS/SD/ES = 2601/14.6/15

 

[chrome]

New lot of Ammo?

This data was back in OCT 2019, so a bit older. Dont have lot # handy.

 

[Sowastrong Industries]

This data was back in OCT 2019, so a bit older. Dont have lot # handy.

RUAG vs USA made lots

 

[Sowastrong Industries]

I’m out till we shoot some more. I’ll be curious to see if my stuff is an odd ball lot

 

[bohem]

RUAG vs USA made lots

RUAG lots ended in earl 2018, USA lots started in July 2019

October 2019 purchase is definitely USA ammo

 

[Dthomas3523]

Won’t argue with the scenario you’ve laid out...my point was I don’t think it matters. I don’t know how the ES will get better than in a SAAMI spec chamber cut by a reputable outfit.

Same way ES gets better or worse with charge weights in one barrel to the next.

Saami just means standardized and acceptable to be safe for the average consumer. It doesn’t always mean it’s optimized.

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

Different types of ammo sometimes isn't compatible with the fouling left by other ammo. It might just need a little help from the operator taking care of the rifle to work better.

This has been my experience also. After purchasing my first 6.5 Creed, I tried many types of ammo. The first one was the Prime 130s and they shot pretty well. Probably .75 MOA.

Then I switched to some Hornady, which also shot sub moa, but not as good as the Prime.

Switched back to Prime and the groups nearly doubled.

Went home, cleaned the barrel.

Back to the range with the Prime ammo and the rifle once again produced the smaller groups.

 

[NY700]

I’ve had no issues with the PRIME. Ordered a case of 200.
Didn’t shoot for groups. Zeroed and got some quick chrono numbers it’s shot slow. Real slow but I’m shooting a Tikka TAC A1 which is just...well, SLOW!
2650fps. SD10 ES20

I walked it out confirming drop 100-1000 wknd was 5-7mph. Drop was within 1/10 of what ballistics spit out

 

[Sowastrong Industries]

RUAG lots ended in earl 2018, USA lots started in July 2019

October 2019 purchase is definitely USA ammo

Understood

 

[Sniperwannabee]

This has been my experience also. After purchasing my first 6.5 Creed, I tried many types of ammo. The first one was the Prime 130s and they shot pretty well. Probably .75 MOA.

Then I switched to some Hornady, which also shot sub moa, but not as good as the Prime.

Switched back to Prime and the groups nearly doubled.

Went home, cleaned the barrel.

Back to the range with the Prime ammo and the rifle once again produced the smaller groups.

UPDATE!
Apparently this exactly was the problem! Prime does not like other bullets fouling in my barrel! I always shot prime along with other bullets, shot the Cheaper bullets at close range and the moved to Berger/Prime ELD for 750 to 1125. So after reading @bohem advice I cleaned and all is well. Very interesting how other bullets remained the same but for some reason prime is sensitive in my barrel to other manufacturers fouling.

thanks guys this is why I posted

 

[winniedonkey]

UPDATE!
Apparently this exactly was the problem! Prime does not like other bullets fouling in my barrel! I always shot prime along with other bullets, shot the Cheaper bullets at close range and the moved to Berger/Prime ELD for 750 to 1125. So after reading @bohem advice I cleaned and all is well. Very interesting how other bullets remained the same but for some reason prime is sensitive in my barrel to other manufacturers fouling.

thanks guys this is why I posted

There is a really good joke here. I'll leave it up to the super clever ones but happy you got it sorted out.

 

[bfoosh006]

FWIW... and I have seen it, so I believe in it.

http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?p=1843658#post1843658