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Range Report Updated! 12/23 OCW Varget SMK 175 308
- Thread starter 308sako
- Start date
Re: The OCW with Varget and SMK 175's .308 Win
How about posting the type of rifle, barrel length, and (if you know it) the expended case water volume?
Finally, it would be interesting to repeat the test with your 44.6 grain load to see whether it retains the same small grouping.
Thanks for posting your results!
How about posting the type of rifle, barrel length, and (if you know it) the expended case water volume?
Finally, it would be interesting to repeat the test with your 44.6 grain load to see whether it retains the same small grouping.
Thanks for posting your results!
Re: The OCW with Varget and SMK 175's .308 Win
Your barrel is similar to the one I just replaced on my GAP rifle. I think the chamber had 55.8 grains of water volume with Lapua brass and the barrel was 25" long overall. With 44.5 grains of Varget, Lapua brass, 175SMK, 210M primer, and 2.810" COAL I think I was getting 2,740 fps. MV was measured with an Oehler also.
I am very interested in your testing and encourage you to post the results. A lot of people here are shooting similar loads in GAP rifles. Just before rebarreling, I was shooting with 44.3 grains of Varget - I didn't need the extra velocity and wanted to avoid crunching a compressed load when I seated the 17SMK.
Your barrel is similar to the one I just replaced on my GAP rifle. I think the chamber had 55.8 grains of water volume with Lapua brass and the barrel was 25" long overall. With 44.5 grains of Varget, Lapua brass, 175SMK, 210M primer, and 2.810" COAL I think I was getting 2,740 fps. MV was measured with an Oehler also.
I am very interested in your testing and encourage you to post the results. A lot of people here are shooting similar loads in GAP rifles. Just before rebarreling, I was shooting with 44.3 grains of Varget - I didn't need the extra velocity and wanted to avoid crunching a compressed load when I seated the 17SMK.
Re: The OCW with Varget and SMK 175's .308 Win
BTW, if 44.6 gr is the magic load, you should test 44.5 and 44.7 grains to see how sensitive the magic point is to Varget mass.
BTW, if 44.6 gr is the magic load, you should test 44.5 and 44.7 grains to see how sensitive the magic point is to Varget mass.
Re: The OCW with Varget and SMK 175's .308 Win
3 of my 700's and at least half a dozen of my friends rifles all shoot 175smk's with 44.6 of varget. for any new rifle that is the first load I try, and it usually works great. The only one that didnt like it is a 20" barrel, all the others are 26"
3 of my 700's and at least half a dozen of my friends rifles all shoot 175smk's with 44.6 of varget. for any new rifle that is the first load I try, and it usually works great. The only one that didnt like it is a 20" barrel, all the others are 26"
Re: The OCW with Varget and SMK 175's .308 Win
I eagerly await the "The 155 Shootout". You gonna try all of em? Berger, Lapua, Sierra,etc.? Would be great to see comparisons of them all at 300 yds loaded in the 47.8 range.
I eagerly await the "The 155 Shootout". You gonna try all of em? Berger, Lapua, Sierra,etc.? Would be great to see comparisons of them all at 300 yds loaded in the 47.8 range.
Re: The OCW with Varget and SMK 175's .308 Win
You make me want to get back into Varget load development for the 175SMK! I will, but only when it gets warmer in a few months. I recently bought 3 pounds and found some BR2s at Midway, so I'm ready. We all gots to know!
You make me want to get back into Varget load development for the 175SMK! I will, but only when it gets warmer in a few months. I recently bought 3 pounds and found some BR2s at Midway, so I'm ready. We all gots to know!
Re: The OCW with Varget and SMK 175's .308 Win
I'm on exactly the same path with 155s and 175s, and have pretty much settled on a 4064 load with 175s.
Back to re-testing some 155 loads, having found that the heavier ones suddenly got more consistent and smaller groups by switching from WLRs to CCI 200s. With that approach, I'm even re-trying Varget with the 155s. F210 primers also shot tighter than WLRs. Anyone want to buy 2,830 of them?
My 22-inch barrel, the cases and QuickLOAD all agree that I can't go much faster than 2780 with either A-Maxes or Noslers with most powders.
With 175s, my limit is about 2650, IIRC, with both Varget and 4064. My accuracy load does 2580 or so at 50 F. Don't mind going a bit slower if it makes my barrel last longer...
I'm on exactly the same path with 155s and 175s, and have pretty much settled on a 4064 load with 175s.
Back to re-testing some 155 loads, having found that the heavier ones suddenly got more consistent and smaller groups by switching from WLRs to CCI 200s. With that approach, I'm even re-trying Varget with the 155s. F210 primers also shot tighter than WLRs. Anyone want to buy 2,830 of them?
My 22-inch barrel, the cases and QuickLOAD all agree that I can't go much faster than 2780 with either A-Maxes or Noslers with most powders.
With 175s, my limit is about 2650, IIRC, with both Varget and 4064. My accuracy load does 2580 or so at 50 F. Don't mind going a bit slower if it makes my barrel last longer...
Re: The OCW with Varget and SMK 175's .308 Win
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308sako</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jack my guess and that of Dan Newberry is 44.4, though I think 44.5 is the sweet spot. When looking at the common POI any of the loads from 44.2 to 44.6 wanted to hit that spot. Only 44.6 really tuned. So I will try 44.5 and 44.6 once again with no other changes. Read sadly low on powder and bullets... </div></div>
You're NOT low on powder.... your 7 lbs of Varget is sitting in my garage in the unopened box from Widners. I was skiing in UT all weekend. I'll get that to you tomorrow.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308sako</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jack my guess and that of Dan Newberry is 44.4, though I think 44.5 is the sweet spot. When looking at the common POI any of the loads from 44.2 to 44.6 wanted to hit that spot. Only 44.6 really tuned. So I will try 44.5 and 44.6 once again with no other changes. Read sadly low on powder and bullets... </div></div>
You're NOT low on powder.... your 7 lbs of Varget is sitting in my garage in the unopened box from Widners. I was skiing in UT all weekend. I'll get that to you tomorrow.
Re: The OCW with Varget and SMK 175's .308 Win
the 44.6g varget is my match load. I had better results with 210m though. I'm pushing them out at 2720 from a stock 700p. I'll have to post OAL later as I'm supposed to be working rightnow.
the 44.6g varget is my match load. I had better results with 210m though. I'm pushing them out at 2720 from a stock 700p. I'll have to post OAL later as I'm supposed to be working rightnow.
Re: The OCW with Varget and SMK 175's .308 Win
All about 0.5 MOA. Guess you need to go outside those loads, higher and lower and find where the groups open up. The earlier small group at 44.6 grains may not have been representative of that load's average grouping. Luckily, some Varget has discovered where you are.
All about 0.5 MOA. Guess you need to go outside those loads, higher and lower and find where the groups open up. The earlier small group at 44.6 grains may not have been representative of that load's average grouping. Luckily, some Varget has discovered where you are.
Re: The OCW with Varget and SMK 175's .308 Win
I for one would be pretty darned pleased with those groups. Good shooting, Sako.
I for one would be pretty darned pleased with those groups. Good shooting, Sako.
Re: The OCW with Varget and SMK 175's .308 Win
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308sako</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shot this AM 12/21
Range #3 Desert Sportsmans Las Vegas... distance 300 yards, no wind. Made a 1 click adjustment down from previous firing and shot the following sequence; Cold bore shot was at 12 o'clock on the diamond 44.4 group. In the 44.5 group I pulled and called the 4th shot which was up and right, then lost concentration and dumped the one out to the 9 o'clock, yes the first three were in the center. It could have been better. Changed <span style="font-weight: bold">glasses and fiddled with the scopes focus then shot 44.6</span>. Barrel still uncleaned, 617 total with 183 uncleaned. I am not unhappy! Merry Christmas all.
</div></div>
D - If I read this right, it sounds like you are NOT shooting round robin style, correct?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308sako</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shot this AM 12/21
Range #3 Desert Sportsmans Las Vegas... distance 300 yards, no wind. Made a 1 click adjustment down from previous firing and shot the following sequence; Cold bore shot was at 12 o'clock on the diamond 44.4 group. In the 44.5 group I pulled and called the 4th shot which was up and right, then lost concentration and dumped the one out to the 9 o'clock, yes the first three were in the center. It could have been better. Changed <span style="font-weight: bold">glasses and fiddled with the scopes focus then shot 44.6</span>. Barrel still uncleaned, 617 total with 183 uncleaned. I am not unhappy! Merry Christmas all.
D - If I read this right, it sounds like you are NOT shooting round robin style, correct?
Re: The OCW with Varget and SMK 175's .308 Win
308sako, how much Varget is in the rounds shot on 12/23?
308sako, how much Varget is in the rounds shot on 12/23?
Re: The OCW with Varget and SMK 175's .308 Win
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308sako</div><div class="ubbcode-body">J That is correct, For me and the stable conditions we had i feel that I see more quickly what I am looking to find...
D </div></div>
Thanks. I agree with you there. I just didn't like the round robin style shooting. It really seemed to interrupt the tempo of the shooting.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308sako</div><div class="ubbcode-body">J That is correct, For me and the stable conditions we had i feel that I see more quickly what I am looking to find...
D </div></div>
Thanks. I agree with you there. I just didn't like the round robin style shooting. It really seemed to interrupt the tempo of the shooting.
Re: The OCW with Varget and SMK 175's .308 Win
I have found stunning success in my SPS Tac., with;
44.9 grains of varget,
175smk,
210 or BR2 primers,
with Win, Horn. and Lap. brass
at 2.820 COAL.
I also have a 22" barrelled Savage 10fcp that I am trying to load for. It shot this load well but not as well as the SPS.
Don't know the velocity but I have been impressed with the 100 yard accuracy. My most recent trip, before being rained out, put 10 rounds in .5 inch.
I need to shoot this more to make sure it's not a fluke but it seems to be holding well the last couple trips.
I will break it out to 565 and 1000 on my next trip out.
I have found stunning success in my SPS Tac., with;
44.9 grains of varget,
175smk,
210 or BR2 primers,
with Win, Horn. and Lap. brass
at 2.820 COAL.
I also have a 22" barrelled Savage 10fcp that I am trying to load for. It shot this load well but not as well as the SPS.
Don't know the velocity but I have been impressed with the 100 yard accuracy. My most recent trip, before being rained out, put 10 rounds in .5 inch.
I need to shoot this more to make sure it's not a fluke but it seems to be holding well the last couple trips.
I will break it out to 565 and 1000 on my next trip out.
Re: The OCW with Varget and SMK 175's .308 Win
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308sako</div><div class="ubbcode-body">3 of the 4 rifles did well, the 20" crapped on the test, not the shooter the load and the 20" rifle.
</div></div>
You're too kind. I sucked on your little OCW test. Although your ES and SD was HUGE on this particular 5-shot string, I honestly didn't feel settled into your shooting position and I didn't shoot the gun well. My own Varget loads did much better in my gun but I wasn't shooting anywhere NEAR what either yours or Jerkee's guns was shooting. Holy crap, you guys were drilling some 5 shot groups. I guess a Bartlein barrel is in my near future.
But for a $450 stock Rem 700 SPS 20" with a budget scope, I'll take it. My humble contributions:
This 1st one was an attempt to replicate Sako's 175 SMK 44.4 Varget load w/ Lapua brass. Our only difference was he used BR-2 primers and I used FGMM 210Ms. The bullet hole with the X is a sighter from a previous group so ignore that and I had one called flyer. Chrono'd velocity on a CED M2 was 2538fps @10 ft (ES=14, SD=4.8):
Next was the same load but bumped up to 44.6. MV was 2553 (ES=27, SD-9.4):
I then shot both of the above Varget loads 44.4 and 44.6 but with 178 AMAX bullets and the seating depth at 2.875 because I was trying out my new CDI BM with the AI mags and I wanted to see if I could take advantage of the longer mag length. The SPS 20" really seems to like the AMAXs seated LONG. The Lowest shot in the group was the last and I got antsy because I could see the previous 4 and I got excited:
My final group of the day shooting 155 smk Palmas (2155) with 47.8 Varget. NOt bad, but I'm not convinced yet that my 20" likes the 155s as much as the heavier bullets. Both the 155 Palmas and the 155 Scenars have been mediocre.
Overall a decent day at the range. I was a bit dissappointed with the velocities of the varget loads. I was hoping for a little faster because we're desert shooting at 1K on wed. But JBM says those loads will stay supersonic, so we'll see. But that's life with a 20" barrel and 44F shooting weather.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308sako</div><div class="ubbcode-body">3 of the 4 rifles did well, the 20" crapped on the test, not the shooter the load and the 20" rifle.
</div></div>
You're too kind. I sucked on your little OCW test. Although your ES and SD was HUGE on this particular 5-shot string, I honestly didn't feel settled into your shooting position and I didn't shoot the gun well. My own Varget loads did much better in my gun but I wasn't shooting anywhere NEAR what either yours or Jerkee's guns was shooting. Holy crap, you guys were drilling some 5 shot groups. I guess a Bartlein barrel is in my near future.
But for a $450 stock Rem 700 SPS 20" with a budget scope, I'll take it. My humble contributions:
This 1st one was an attempt to replicate Sako's 175 SMK 44.4 Varget load w/ Lapua brass. Our only difference was he used BR-2 primers and I used FGMM 210Ms. The bullet hole with the X is a sighter from a previous group so ignore that and I had one called flyer. Chrono'd velocity on a CED M2 was 2538fps @10 ft (ES=14, SD=4.8):
Next was the same load but bumped up to 44.6. MV was 2553 (ES=27, SD-9.4):
I then shot both of the above Varget loads 44.4 and 44.6 but with 178 AMAX bullets and the seating depth at 2.875 because I was trying out my new CDI BM with the AI mags and I wanted to see if I could take advantage of the longer mag length. The SPS 20" really seems to like the AMAXs seated LONG. The Lowest shot in the group was the last and I got antsy because I could see the previous 4 and I got excited:
My final group of the day shooting 155 smk Palmas (2155) with 47.8 Varget. NOt bad, but I'm not convinced yet that my 20" likes the 155s as much as the heavier bullets. Both the 155 Palmas and the 155 Scenars have been mediocre.
Overall a decent day at the range. I was a bit dissappointed with the velocities of the varget loads. I was hoping for a little faster because we're desert shooting at 1K on wed. But JBM says those loads will stay supersonic, so we'll see. But that's life with a 20" barrel and 44F shooting weather.
Re: The OCW with Varget and SMK 175's .308 Win
If you found the OCW with the 155 L and the loads that have the same POI ( also were is the scatter group),then adjusting the seating depth in .005 increments would tighten the group at some point. What was your fps for the 155L 47.8 load? How did you arrive at a OAL of 2.875?
If you found the OCW with the 155 L and the loads that have the same POI ( also were is the scatter group),then adjusting the seating depth in .005 increments would tighten the group at some point. What was your fps for the 155L 47.8 load? How did you arrive at a OAL of 2.875?
Re: The OCW with Varget and SMK 175's .308 Win
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Unsichtbar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you found the OCW with the 155 L and the loads that have the same POI ( also were is the scatter group),then adjusting the seating depth in .005 increments would tighten the group at some point. What was your fps for the 155L 47.8 load? How did you arrive at a OAL of 2.875?
</div></div>
I was honestly concentrating on testing the 175 and 178 loads with varget and had some primed cases left over. I had previously ran some 155 Palma and Scenar testing with RL-15 (before I could find Varget) and the results with the 155s were really not all that good and I just stuffed them on the back of the shelf. I was thinking last night, Hmmmmm I wonder how they 155s would do with a good varget load. I seated at 2.875 only because I wanted to test out how well my new CDI BM with 10rnd AI mags fed at mag length. So I didn't do a true OCW test by any means on the 155s.
I'm tempted to shelve them again, because the 47.8 Varget load basically filled the case to midway up the case mouth but I was still only getting 2722fps out of them with my 20" barrel and factory Rem chamber. Knowing that Palma and Scenar bullets like to be pushed hard, I don't think I can get much more out of them.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Unsichtbar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you found the OCW with the 155 L and the loads that have the same POI ( also were is the scatter group),then adjusting the seating depth in .005 increments would tighten the group at some point. What was your fps for the 155L 47.8 load? How did you arrive at a OAL of 2.875?
</div></div>
I was honestly concentrating on testing the 175 and 178 loads with varget and had some primed cases left over. I had previously ran some 155 Palma and Scenar testing with RL-15 (before I could find Varget) and the results with the 155s were really not all that good and I just stuffed them on the back of the shelf. I was thinking last night, Hmmmmm I wonder how they 155s would do with a good varget load. I seated at 2.875 only because I wanted to test out how well my new CDI BM with 10rnd AI mags fed at mag length. So I didn't do a true OCW test by any means on the 155s.
I'm tempted to shelve them again, because the 47.8 Varget load basically filled the case to midway up the case mouth but I was still only getting 2722fps out of them with my 20" barrel and factory Rem chamber. Knowing that Palma and Scenar bullets like to be pushed hard, I don't think I can get much more out of them.
Re: The OCW with Varget and SMK 175's .308 Win
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ReaperDriver</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308sako</div><div class="ubbcode-body">3 of the 4 rifles did well, the 20" crapped on the test, not the shooter the load and the 20" rifle.
</div></div>
[snip]
But for a $450 stock Rem 700 SPS 20" with a budget scope, I'll take it. My humble contributions:
This 1st one was an attempt to replicate Sako's 175 SMK 44.4 Varget load w/ Lapua brass. Our only difference was he used BR-2 primers and I used FGMM 210Ms. The bullet hole with the X is a sighter from a previous group so ignore that and I had one called flyer. Chrono'd velocity on a CED M2 was 2538fps @10 ft (ES=14, SD=4.8):
</div></div>
Wow, that's a decent enough group. I ran QuickLOAD on that using my FC case capacity of 56.8 gr water, and it showed about 3900 PSI overpressure BUT almost exactly 100 fps faster than you report from your 20-inch barrel. Fudging the burn rate to match your speed (assuming the Chrono is correct--they usually are and within half the stated accuracy of +/- 0.5%) shows a *predicted* pressure of only 55,452 PSI Piezo. From your chamber, what's the Lapua brass water capacity?
My lot of Varget tracks the default values much more closely.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308sako</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Next was the same load but bumped up to 44.6. MV was 2553 (ES=27, SD-9.4):
[image and rest of post snipped]</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ReaperDriver</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308sako</div><div class="ubbcode-body">3 of the 4 rifles did well, the 20" crapped on the test, not the shooter the load and the 20" rifle.
</div></div>
[snip]
But for a $450 stock Rem 700 SPS 20" with a budget scope, I'll take it. My humble contributions:
This 1st one was an attempt to replicate Sako's 175 SMK 44.4 Varget load w/ Lapua brass. Our only difference was he used BR-2 primers and I used FGMM 210Ms. The bullet hole with the X is a sighter from a previous group so ignore that and I had one called flyer. Chrono'd velocity on a CED M2 was 2538fps @10 ft (ES=14, SD=4.8):
</div></div>
Wow, that's a decent enough group. I ran QuickLOAD on that using my FC case capacity of 56.8 gr water, and it showed about 3900 PSI overpressure BUT almost exactly 100 fps faster than you report from your 20-inch barrel. Fudging the burn rate to match your speed (assuming the Chrono is correct--they usually are and within half the stated accuracy of +/- 0.5%) shows a *predicted* pressure of only 55,452 PSI Piezo. From your chamber, what's the Lapua brass water capacity?
My lot of Varget tracks the default values much more closely.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308sako</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Next was the same load but bumped up to 44.6. MV was 2553 (ES=27, SD-9.4):
[image and rest of post snipped]</div></div>
Re: The OCW with Varget and SMK 175's .308 Win
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Grump</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Wow, that's a decent enough group. I ran QuickLOAD on that using my FC case capacity of 56.8 gr water, and it showed about 3900 PSI overpressure BUT almost exactly 100 fps faster than you report from your 20-inch barrel. Fudging the burn rate to match your speed (assuming the Chrono is correct--they usually are and within half the stated accuracy of +/- 0.5%) shows a *predicted* pressure of only 55,452 PSI Piezo. From your chamber, what's the Lapua brass water capacity?
My lot of Varget tracks the default values much more closely.
</div></div>
Grump, thanks for checking those on QL. Which load did you check? Here's the measured brass weights: Lapua brass: Avg Empty wt - 177.4. Avg w/ water (convex water meniscus): 234.8
Other conditions: 45F, 35% humidity, 3400' MSL
PM me if you don't want to get in trouble with the QL nazis. I'm going to order the program after the NY's, I just have to pay the xmas bills 1st.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Grump</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Wow, that's a decent enough group. I ran QuickLOAD on that using my FC case capacity of 56.8 gr water, and it showed about 3900 PSI overpressure BUT almost exactly 100 fps faster than you report from your 20-inch barrel. Fudging the burn rate to match your speed (assuming the Chrono is correct--they usually are and within half the stated accuracy of +/- 0.5%) shows a *predicted* pressure of only 55,452 PSI Piezo. From your chamber, what's the Lapua brass water capacity?
My lot of Varget tracks the default values much more closely.
</div></div>
Grump, thanks for checking those on QL. Which load did you check? Here's the measured brass weights: Lapua brass: Avg Empty wt - 177.4. Avg w/ water (convex water meniscus): 234.8
Other conditions: 45F, 35% humidity, 3400' MSL
PM me if you don't want to get in trouble with the QL nazis. I'm going to order the program after the NY's, I just have to pay the xmas bills 1st.
Re: Updated! 12/23 OCW Varget SMK 175 308
Hmmm... I don't know what the instruments' accuracy and precision are supposed to be these days, but when I FIRST played with a Chrono years ago it was advertised as accurate to +/- 0.5%.
Taking 2700 as a reference point, that spread, for a total of 1% "edge to edge" is 27 fps.
Two instruments within 1.5% of each other...you need more lab equipment than I have to calibrate either of them.
ETA: 1.5% off of a 24-inch screen spread is .36 inch. Beware of cheap Chinese tape measures.... Check your easily-checked variables first, but believe me, propagation delay of signals in longer wires is NOT going to make an equivalent difference! It's a near-lightspeed thing.
Hmmm... I don't know what the instruments' accuracy and precision are supposed to be these days, but when I FIRST played with a Chrono years ago it was advertised as accurate to +/- 0.5%.
Taking 2700 as a reference point, that spread, for a total of 1% "edge to edge" is 27 fps.
Two instruments within 1.5% of each other...you need more lab equipment than I have to calibrate either of them.
ETA: 1.5% off of a 24-inch screen spread is .36 inch. Beware of cheap Chinese tape measures.... Check your easily-checked variables first, but believe me, propagation delay of signals in longer wires is NOT going to make an equivalent difference! It's a near-lightspeed thing.
