Gunsmithing Updated UPS rules for firearms

E. Bryant

E. Bryant

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    • Oct 25, 2010
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    #1
    The latest shitshow has arrived:

    How To Ship Firearms | UPS - United States

    Information from UPS about how to ship firearms, which are considered a special-care shipment and require some extra steps before packing them up and shipping.
    www.ups.com

    armedamericannews.org

    Copy of UPS' shipping agreement for gun dealers

    Here is a copy of UPS shipping agreement for gun dealers, which was released after the carrier cancelled accounts.
    armedamericannews.org armedamericannews.org

    The tl;dr summary appears to be as follows:

    - firearms and firearm parts can only be sent by licensed entities

    - firearms can only be sent to licensed entities

    - "firearms" - per the latest definition - must have serial numbers

    - shippers will be required to open and maintain a dedicated account for firearms and another for firearm parts and then another for non-firearm articles (have fun trying to keep that straight, and presumably we'll kiss goodbye any discounts we may have had on our primary account)

    - shipments will need to be accompanied by hardcopy and electronic manifests

    - shipments will need to be ASR and DDO, and can only be tendered to a driver at one's assigned daily pickup location (no drop-off allowed at hubs, stores, or to random drivers)

    I've seen some scattered discussion around the Hide and other sites, but since the dealers and gunsmiths often hang out in this section I felt this topic deserved its own thread.

    For those who are unlicensed, you now basically have only the post office for shipping firearms, and you're not allowed to ship handguns via USPS without an FFL. This will certainly impede warranty work, as well as other completely legal interstate transfer of firearms from non-licensed individuals to licensees.

    I'm sure that the hardcore noncompliance types will claim that they will openly ignore the rules, and that will be fun and games until a $5000 rifle goes missing and the claim is denied.
     
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    #2
    E. Bryant said:
    The latest shitshow has arrived:

    How To Ship Firearms | UPS - United States

    Information from UPS about how to ship firearms, which are considered a special-care shipment and require some extra steps before packing them up and shipping.
    www.ups.com

    armedamericannews.org

    Copy of UPS' shipping agreement for gun dealers

    Here is a copy of UPS shipping agreement for gun dealers, which was released after the carrier cancelled accounts.
    armedamericannews.org armedamericannews.org

    The tl;dr summary appears to be as follows:

    - firearms and firearm parts can only be sent by licensed entities

    - firearms can only be sent to licensed entities

    - "firearms" - per the latest definition - must have serial numbers

    - shippers will be required to open and maintain a dedicated account for firearms and another for firearm parts and then another for non-firearm articles (have fun trying to keep that straight, and presumably we'll kiss goodbye any discounts we may have had on our primary account)

    - shipments will need to be accompanied by hardcopy and electronic manifests

    - shipments will need to be ASR and DDO, and can only be tendered to a driver at one's assigned daily pickup location (no drop-off allowed at hubs, stores, or to random drivers)

    I've seen some scattered discussion around the Hide and other sites, but since the dealers and gunsmiths often hang out in this section I felt this topic deserved its own thread.

    For those who are unlicensed, you now basically have only the post office for shipping firearms, and you're not allowed to ship handguns via USPS without an FFL. This will certainly impede warranty work, as well as other completely legal interstate transfer of firearms from non-licensed individuals to licensees.

    I'm sure that the hardcore noncompliance types will claim that they will openly ignore the rules, and that will be fun and games until a $5000 rifle goes missing and the claim is denied.
    Click to expand...

    Fuck UPS

    USPS and Fedex FTW

    Oh yea, gunshow loophole FTW
     
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    #3
    UPS made it easy for me years ago by shutting down its customer desk at the local hub, so I've done 100% of my firearms shipping via FedEx. But I suspect this will hit some vendors more severely.

    I'm still looking for the gunshow loophole but haven't yet found it. Should I call my IOI and ask him where it's located in US code?
     
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    #4
    So even if a dealer makes a return label for me, it's impossible on my end to get it into the hands of UPS according to their rules.
     
    #5
    KZP said:
    So even if a dealer makes a return label for me, it's impossible on my end to get it into the hands of UPS according to their rules.
    Click to expand...

    Correct. This is going to be a major PITA for customers who have legit service needs that can be fulfilled under federal law without the involvement of an FFL on their end.

    I'd love to claim that this will be good for FFLs, but I don't like infringements of 2A rights even if they're good for business, I don't get much personal satisfaction from trying to make money by following dumb administrative rules, and no sane customer will pay me enough to be worth the investment in time required to handle this bookkeeping.
     
    #7
    E. Bryant said:
    Correct. This is going to be a major PITA for customers who have legit service needs that can be fulfilled under federal law without the involvement of an FFL on their end.

    I'd love to claim that this will be good for FFLs, but I don't like infringements of 2A rights even if they're good for business, I don't get much personal satisfaction from trying to make money by following dumb administrative rules, and no sane customer will pay me enough to be worth the investment in time required to handle this bookkeeping.
    Click to expand...

    Hey, that's me! Have to send out my rifle for service in the next few weeks. Last time they printed a UPS label for me. This time I'm not sure what they will do .
     
    #8
    The problem is and always will be no matter who you ship through, you will probably be denied your claim if it's lost or stolen. This just makes more hoop jumping and reasons to deny your claim. Up and to the point where there will be no legitimate way to ship firearms. This is the plan, get used to it.
     
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    #10
    BigPrince said:
    You realize Fedex doesn't allow firearms shipments except between FFLs already right?
    Both UPS and Fedex can go f' themselves. USPS sucks too but at least you can ship a rifle without an FFL.
    Click to expand...
    Yep, I called FedEx today, and they said essentially ohh - we already do all that...

    So FedEx and UPS operate the same.

    As an aside - if you want to ship your personally owned firearm to yourself in another state so you don't have to travel with it - now its only USPS for long guns.
     
    #11
    Fred @ Bison Tactical said:
    Yep, I called FedEx today, and they said essentially ohh - we already do all that...

    So FedEx and UPS operate the same.

    As an aside - if you want to ship your personally owned firearm to yourself in another state so you don't have to travel with it - now no carriers allow that, not USPS, FedEx nor UPS (maybe DHL?). So, has to all go through an FFL to an FFL with a background check at the destintation - and same for return...
    Click to expand...
    Isn’t it illegal to do a transfer for someone that is not a state resident with a valid state ID? How would one ship to an FFL and expect to pick it up to hunt?
     
    #12
    roostercogburn98 said:
    Isn’t it illegal to do a transfer for someone that is not a state resident with a valid state ID? How would one ship to an FFL and expect to pick it up to hunt?
    Click to expand...
    It depends on what type of firearm and which two states are involved. That is legal between certain states with long guns. Moot point though because that’s a hassle that nobody’s gonna want to go through.
     
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    #13
    Supersubes said:
    It depends on what type of firearm and which two states are involved. That is legal between certain states with long guns. Moot point though because that’s a hassle that nobody’s gonna want to go through.
    Click to expand...
    Yes, agreed. For example, Florida - its illegal to transfer a shotgun to a Florida resident under 21 in Colorado since Florida law says the purchaser must be over 21. While Colorado law allows the transfer locally to a CO resident under 21, FL doesn't so if the person is a FL resident, the transfer is invalid.
     
    #14
    Wonder what this means for businesses like shipmygun.com.

    Shipping firearms has always been a pain in the ass where I live - seems that I have to go to an FFL to send it out anyways, as my shipping hubs here won't touch a firearm, and their employees are woefully ignorant of their own policies.
     
    #21
    Haney said:
    What an ignorant idea . You are just too fucking stupid to be taken seriously .
    Click to expand...

    tenor.gif
     
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    #22
    The real problem, at least for me, is that even if you have an FFL, you must have regularly scheduled pick-ups or go to a dist. center to ship. Nearest distribution center to me is hours away. Regularly scheduled pick-ups for UPS are 15.95/week. Fedex said I didn't have enough business for them to let me enter their "Firearms shipping agreement".
     
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    #28
    pineoak said:
    How does the legality of bringing a firearm into a post office work?
    Click to expand...

    carbonbased said:
    ???

    Obviously you use a box beforehand? It works just fine that way.

    The other way, well, I imagine is works not so well.
    Click to expand...
    Yes, the second scenario puts you in ”time out” for a poor choice in decision making.
     
    Last edited:
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    #33
    308pirate said:
    Wtf kind of question is that?

    Fortunately for you the Domestic Mail Manual is there for you.

    Pro tip: non FFLs can't mail handguns. Only long guns.
    Click to expand...
    Safety tip for others (308 is on-board with this): one can’t ship handguns because if you touch the package, they’ll blow your lungs out.

    FFLs have special lung-protectors. As do package delivery people.

    Stay safe out there.
     
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    #34
    Thanks for posting.
    So when did this shit happen? If this hadn't been posted, I'd be blissfully ignorant and continuing to ship UPS.

    I ship UPS all the time since USPS rates have gone bonkers that last couple of years. I do not have a dedicated UPS account, but rather use a separate shipping program that allows me to ship USPS or UPS at discounted rates. I can punch in the info, then see which one is cheapest.

    USPS Parcel Post is ridiculous- double what UPS is for larger, heavier shipments. USPS Priority is reasonable for smaller, lighter shit like barreled actions- but not competitively priced for larger, heavier packages like full rifle cases. Customer will shit a brick at the cost of shipping a loaded 50 lb Pelican case.

    Within five business days of such request, Shipper will supply order information (e.g., invoice, packing list and any other relevant documentation) to demonstrate contents of specific packages (tracking numbers) identified by UPS. UPS may audit Shipper at any time and for any reason. The scope of audits of Shipper may include but are not limited to: opening and inspecting Shipper’s shipments; examination and review of Shipper’s books and records relevant to Firearm Products Shipments; and auditing the Shipper Compliance Program.

    ^^^^
    Suck my dick, UPS. Just checked, and FedEx looks to be requiring the same shit now.
    Looks like all my firearms shipments are going USPS now, until Brandon figures out he can fuck us even more by making it illegal to ship firearms USPS...
     
    #35
    E. Bryant, I looked all over that UPS link/website…and couldn’t find “parts” definition

    Firearm parts meaning ANYTHING related to a fire arm?…scopes, stocks (manufactured or built), how about sending a bolt out to get “bushed” or to get fluted or a tactical knob installed…how about reamers or reloading dies?
    How about an unchambered barrel blank?

    If I want to send a bolt to a builder, I need to have a FFL do it?
     
    Last edited:
    #37
    Earnhardt said:
    E. Bryant, I looked all over that UPS link/website…and couldn’t find “parts” definition

    Firearm parts meaning ANYTHING related to a fire arm?…scopes, stocks (manufactured or built), how about sending a bolt out to get “bushed” or to get fluted or a tactical knob installed…how about reamers or reloading dies?
    How about an unchambered barrel blank?

    If I want to send a bolt to a builder, I need to have a FFL do it?
    Click to expand...
    If it has to do with a gun, they will freak out. I tried to ship a thermal last week and the lady said the reciever needed to have an FFL. She called her supervisor and he confirmed. This was the OKC UPS hub. I'm sure others are different. There is no list of what is and isn't acceptable. They don't know what's going on either. The workers got given a massive blanket statement.
     
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    #38
    Not shipping a firearm but trying to ship ammo to a hide member. Only thing I’ve found as an option is schedule pick up or a drop off at a customer care center which there are non in my county. Any other options you guys know of? Non FFL here.
     
    #39
    E. Bryant said:
    The latest shitshow has arrived:

    How To Ship Firearms | UPS - United States

    Information from UPS about how to ship firearms, which are considered a special-care shipment and require some extra steps before packing them up and shipping.
    www.ups.com

    armedamericannews.org

    Copy of UPS' shipping agreement for gun dealers

    Here is a copy of UPS shipping agreement for gun dealers, which was released after the carrier cancelled accounts.
    armedamericannews.org armedamericannews.org

    The tl;dr summary appears to be as follows:

    - firearms and firearm parts can only be sent by licensed entities

    - firearms can only be sent to licensed entities

    - "firearms" - per the latest definition - must have serial numbers

    - shippers will be required to open and maintain a dedicated account for firearms and another for firearm parts and then another for non-firearm articles (have fun trying to keep that straight, and presumably we'll kiss goodbye any discounts we may have had on our primary account)

    - shipments will need to be accompanied by hardcopy and electronic manifests

    - shipments will need to be ASR and DDO, and can only be tendered to a driver at one's assigned daily pickup location (no drop-off allowed at hubs, stores, or to random drivers)

    I've seen some scattered discussion around the Hide and other sites, but since the dealers and gunsmiths often hang out in this section I felt this topic deserved its own thread.

    For those who are unlicensed, you now basically have only the post office for shipping firearms, and you're not allowed to ship handguns via USPS without an FFL. This will certainly impede warranty work, as well as other completely legal interstate transfer of firearms from non-licensed individuals to licensees.

    I'm sure that the hardcore noncompliance types will claim that they will openly ignore the rules, and that will be fun and games until a $5000 rifle goes missing and the claim is denied.
    Click to expand...
    So, a call tag issued is as good as gold.
     
    #40
    SCGunner84 said:
    Not shipping a firearm but trying to ship ammo to a hide member. Only thing I’ve found as an option is schedule pick up or a drop off at a customer care center which there are non in my county. Any other options you guys know of? Non FFL here.
    Click to expand...
    You need an account with UPS, with Hazmat service to ship ammunition.

    How To Ship Ammunition | UPS - United States

    Key considerations from UPS to keep in mind when packaging and shipping ammunition for firearms.
    www.ups.com

    Shipping Hazardous Materials | UPS - United States

    Learn how to safely and successfully transport many hazardous materials with UPS, including shipping dry ice, ammunition and batteries.
    www.ups.com
     
    #41
    E. Bryant said:
    The latest shitshow has arrived:

    How To Ship Firearms | UPS - United States

    Information from UPS about how to ship firearms, which are considered a special-care shipment and require some extra steps before packing them up and shipping.
    www.ups.com

    armedamericannews.org

    Copy of UPS' shipping agreement for gun dealers

    Here is a copy of UPS shipping agreement for gun dealers, which was released after the carrier cancelled accounts.
    armedamericannews.org armedamericannews.org

    The tl;dr summary appears to be as follows:

    - firearms and firearm parts can only be sent by licensed entities

    - firearms can only be sent to licensed entities

    - "firearms" - per the latest definition - must have serial numbers

    - shippers will be required to open and maintain a dedicated account for firearms and another for firearm parts and then another for non-firearm articles (have fun trying to keep that straight, and presumably we'll kiss goodbye any discounts we may have had on our primary account)

    - shipments will need to be accompanied by hardcopy and electronic manifests

    - shipments will need to be ASR and DDO, and can only be tendered to a driver at one's assigned daily pickup location (no drop-off allowed at hubs, stores, or to random drivers)

    I've seen some scattered discussion around the Hide and other sites, but since the dealers and gunsmiths often hang out in this section I felt this topic deserved its own thread.

    For those who are unlicensed, you now basically have only the post office for shipping firearms, and you're not allowed to ship handguns via USPS without an FFL. This will certainly impede warranty work, as well as other completely legal interstate transfer of firearms from non-licensed individuals to licensees.

    I'm sure that the hardcore noncompliance types will claim that they will openly ignore the rules, and that will be fun and games until a $5000 rifle goes missing and the claim is denied.
    Click to expand...
    Pretty sure I can still mail machine parts, auto parts, dildos or whatever else I tell them is in the box

    box-whatsinthebox.gif

    308pirate said:
    Fuck them too.

    Just lie
    Click to expand...
    What he said.

    These people are conspiring to screw you out of your ability to do anything and you care about lying to them?

    It's a corporate policy not a law, you haven't done anything criminal. If it's lost or stolen you aren't getting reimbursed but if you're willing to ship it, ship it, fuck em.

    Follow the law but screw their liberal corporate rules
     
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    #42
    The last two barreled actions I shipped to LRI for gunsmithing went via the UPS customer service center at my local UPS hub that’s 1.5 miles from my home.

    Both times I used my UPS account to create labels and listed the make and model with the SN of each receiver and insured as necessary.

    Then it was just a matter of dropping them off at the hub and getting a receipt. No muss, no fuss, no questions. (Both came back from LRI USPS priority mail)

    Does this mean we can’t do this now?
     
    #43
    VSP968 said:
    The last two barreled actions I shipped to LRI for gunsmithing went via the UPS customer service center at my local UPS hub that’s 1.5 miles from my home.

    Both times I used my UPS account to create labels and listed the make and model with the SN of each receiver and insured as necessary.

    Then it was just a matter of dropping them off at the hub and getting a receipt. No muss, no fuss, no questions. (Both came back from LRI USPS priority mail)

    Does this mean we can’t do this now?
    Click to expand...

    According to UPS, you now need to get an FFL with a special UPS account to ship for you. What you did would be rejected at the hub.
     
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