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Upgrade for the V3 AutoTrickler

#3
Punkur67 said:
That looks like it works good
Click to expand...
It works very well. I’ve been testing this one for a couple months now. The way it’s designed, it wipes away any double stacked kernels before they get to the drop tube, and a small ball bearing helps push any reluctant kernels down. Comes with a few discs for anything from ball or a flake like 2000MR to bigger extruded powders like N150 which is what I primarily use. Average charge throws for me are about 6-9s.
 
#4
I can also highly, highly recommend this upgrade. I’ve had it about a month and I’m amazed. It is very fast, id say 6-9s is right on the mark except the 9s cycles are unusual.

The only adjustments you make are to the speed/ramp-down slider on the back of the scale (comes with the v3 unit) depending on powder, and changing the disc in the tickler hopper. With respect to the speed slider, with Varget you run it at its fastest setting. With 4350 about half way. It doesn’t really change cycle time, just gives the right ramp down to adjust for different weight of larger extruded kernels.

This is the real deal. I’m no longer throwing 30-50% overcharges back into the hopper. I set the Autotrickler to 30.21 for Varget and I get a 30.20 grain charge nearly every single time (for real), with may be 2-3 that are 30.18 or 30.22 in a 50 round loading block.

I bought two of these because I used two Autotrickler to keep up/be more efficient. I cannot keep up with one of these, so it lets me keep the other one on a different powder (Staball 6.5 now) with a different disc installed. This upgrade is worth every penny.
 
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#11
Awesome!

When Adam first came out with the autotrickler I worked with him to integrate my own servo controlled Harrell's bulk dispenser well before he came out with the Autothrow. At that time I mentioned both to Adam and on the old V1 autotrickler thread here on SH that a slotted disc Prometheus style trickler would probably substantially decrease overthrows compared to the tube style trickler.

Soon after making my servo controlled Harrell's drop I started making my own Prometheus style slotted disc trickler to integrate with the V1, but never gave it enough attention and I still have partially finished parts sitting in the shop. I ended up adding a little wire poking into the autotrickler output tube exit to break up any stacked powder clumps and while it wasn't perfect it worked well enough in terms of minimizing overthrows that I sort of gave up on the slotted disc trickler.

Glad someone finally did make a slotted disc Prometheus style trickler for the Autotrickler-- and it appears to work as well as I expected it would. It appears to be very nicely made too, and the design allows easy removal of the trickler cup for changing the slotted discs and for dumping it out. Nice that you don't even have to mess with the belt and can just swing the drive arm and roller out of the way.

Looks like I'll be buying one of these and integrating it with my hybrid V1 / homemade Harrell's bulk drop setup. My homemade servo controlled Harrell's bulk drop is still faster than the V3 Autothrow, so I skipped both the V2 and V3 versions with autothrow.

Might have to do some tweaking in the coding and operation sequencing for best speed and efficiency with this new trickler. It may work out better to have the trickler index one plate "notch" at a time during the final ramp down (this is how the trickler on the Prometheus works, and Brand certainly did his homework on it) compared to the default slow but constant rotation of the autotrickler. Won't know for sure until I have one in hand and test it.
 
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#15
TheOfficeT-Rex said:
$345 + shipping is awful steep to take my reloads from +/- ,02 gn to +/-,02 gn, but a couple seconds quicker.
Click to expand...

I suppose some people get really, really irritated about overthrows with the standard trickler... :ROFLMAO:

Some powders are much worse than others with the standard trickler when it comes to dispensing behavior, and you either learn to accept a few overthrows or slow the trickler way down to reduce them.

If this new trickler is fast and avoids almost all overthrows (and it appears to do just that) it might be worth it if you reload a lot and want to save as much time as possible and/or you're really OCD about overthrows.

For those really focused on speed, a single V3 plus one of these new tricklers along with 2 cups is cheaper than 2 scales and 2 autotricklers (which I see some people using)-- and this setup with the new trickler might be faster and more consistent than running 2 standard V3s.

I'm giving one a try because I never got around to finishing my own Prometheus style trickler and I want to see how well one works with the autotrickler. I've spent far more on stupider things than this...
 
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#18
Time is money
If my time is worth say $70 an hour, and I cut the time in half then in order to break even I would need to reload about 6000 rounds roughly.

I went from a balance beam scale to chargemaster to a A&D fix 120 i. Then added auto trickler then auto throw.
Natural progression would be to buy this to save more time and less overthrows, but is it worth $350 if I have to rob the motor off my auto trickler? That is the question
Maybe sell the chargemaster hmmmm, decisions, decisions. Reloading is fun but shooting is more fun
 
#19
I've had two for a couple weeks now. Honestly, they trickle faster but not that much faster. What they do is reduce the number of overthrows by a large percentage. With Varget, if you're under by .02 you barely move the knurled knob and exactly one grain drops.
 
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#21
Danrobberg said:
I think I would prefer this to the v4 I just got. Too many overthrows with the tube design. Wish I saw this before I sold my v3.
Click to expand...

Random thought for V4 users like yourself… you may be able to disconnect the smaller tube / “fine” trickler motor from the V4 and run the wire over to the Ingenuity trickler, that way the V4 bulk trickler throws the majority of the charge and the Ingenuity trickler does the final top off.

You might have to mess with the ramp down calibration for the small tube / fine trickler in the V4 software so the ramp downs work well with the Ingenuity trickler, but I have a very good hunch the V4 electronics will work with the Ingenuity trickler without any issues. Adam appears to still be using the same Nema 17 stepper motors since the initial V1 Autotrickler days so everything should be compatible.

If you don’t want to pull the fine trickler tube stepper motor off your V4, a Nema 17 stepper motor can be had for <$10 on Amazon (or $20 direct from Adam) and then you can install the new one on the Ingenuity trickler. That way if you wanted to switch back and forth all you have to do is swap the motor wire over.

One thing I do like about the V4’s coarse/bulk tube dispenser is that it can easily handle large kernel powders without “crunching” or binding and throw very large charges without needing 2 cycles of the autothrow. I’ve never used a V4 in person, so I can’t comment on the speed of the coarse/bulk dispenser— but I like the idea of it. With my own servo driven Harrell’s bulk drop that uses a high speed / high torque servo I can cycle the powder throw from closed to open to closed in 0.18 seconds, which is so fast it doesn’t drop the entire charge of powder. Because of that I have a potentiometer that adjusts the speed of the powder throw during the dispensing stroke to make sure it drops the full charge every time-- and that maximum speed depends on the kernel size and charge weight. No worries about that with the V4 large/coarse bulk trickler tube.
 
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#22
I believe Paul has used his on a V4. You'd have to verify what he did for that.

I know a guy who 3D printed tips for the V4 that all but eliminates the overthrows.
 
#25
Kiba said:
Random thought for V4 users like yourself… you may be able to disconnect the smaller tube / “fine” trickler motor from the V4 and run the wire over to the Ingenuity trickler, that way the V4 bulk trickler throws the majority of the charge and the Ingenuity trickler does the final top off.

You might have to mess with the ramp down calibration for the small tube / fine trickler in the V4 software so the ramp downs work well with the Ingenuity trickler, but I have a very good hunch the V4 electronics will work with the Ingenuity trickler without any issues. Adam appears to still be using the same Nema 17 stepper motors since the initial V1 Autotrickler days so everything should be compatible.

If you don’t want to pull the fine trickler tube stepper motor off your V4, a Nema 17 stepper motor can be had for <$10 on Amazon (or $20 direct from Adam) and then you can install the new one on the Ingenuity trickler. That way if you wanted to switch back and forth all you have to do is swap the motor wire over.

One thing I do like about the V4’s coarse/bulk tube dispenser is that it can easily handle large kernel powders without “crunching” or binding and throw very large charges without needing 2 cycles of the autothrow. I’ve never used a V4 in person, so I can’t comment on the speed of the coarse/bulk dispenser— but I like the idea of it. With my own servo driven Harrell’s bulk drop that uses a high speed / high torque servo I can cycle the powder throw from closed to open to closed in 0.18 seconds, which is so fast it doesn’t drop the entire charge of powder. Because of that I have a potentiometer that adjusts the speed of the powder throw during the dispensing stroke to make sure it drops the full charge every time-- and that maximum speed depends on the kernel size and charge weight. No worries about that with the V4 large/coarse bulk trickler tube.
Click to expand...
We had Paul’s trickler hooked up to my V4 before I went back to a 3. Just take an extra cable to plug into the existing V4 fine tube cable and then to the motor on the Ingenuity. Charge times were about 10-11s with N150 and very consistent.

We even tried tricking the V4 by calibrating with a lighter powder and then using the heavier N150 which would cause it to flow at a faster rate. It worked, but was still slower than a V3 with Pauls trickler.
 
#26
parshal said:
I believe Paul has used his on a V4. You'd have to verify what he did for that.

I know a guy who 3D printed tips for the V4 that all but eliminates the overthrows.
Click to expand...
I think the issue with the V4 is that there is a lot of slop in the mechanism that determines the angle (the two front rubber feet on the lid, the 4 rubber feet on the bottom and the wind shield). Its why some folks at level (myself included) get .23-.26 with a level scale as opposed to the .1 to .2. The solution is very easy in that you just use the feet to tilt the scale until you get that speed when calibrating and play with the speed slider until you get the desired speed/overthrow ratio. However, for me and for Varget, H4350 and Staball 6.5, I kept the scale level and getting .23-.26 but with the tip have no overthrows and throwing 43g of Staball 6.5 in 8 secs and the other two in 10-12 seconds. So for me the 3d printed tip works great. When I played with the scale to get to the prescribed angle and was at .17, I was maybe 2-3 seconds slower and same speed with and without the tip (without overthrows) so I decided to use the more aggressive angle and the tip.

Here is the beautiful thing about the V4. Changing powders and cleaning was a breeze, especially if you break the electric harness clip and just remove the hopper and then the unit and you can pour the remnants straight into wherever you keep your powder - but most importantly, once you have an angle that works for you (which determines the small tube setting), you run a calibration and thats it. No adjusting the hopper for volume, nothing. Running pressure test ladders is so easy. So far loving the V4.

That being said, if I was running a large kernel powder this seems the way to go. Also I think if I had seen this before I got rid of my V3 I would have gotten this and used the V3 for my general charging of one powder and the V4 for development because this is like the Autotrickler and Prometheus had a baby at a significant discount.
 
#27
Anyone know when these will start shipping? Nothing on the website gives any estimate and there is no way to go back and check your order after placing it.
 
#28
HemiPowrd said:
Anyone know when these will start shipping? Nothing on the website gives any estimate and there is no way to go back and check your order after placing it.
Click to expand...

I ordered one last Wednesday, it shipped Friday, and will be here tomorrow.

I've got to load 500 rounds for a buddy this week, looking forward to comparing it to my modified V1 trickler which is running sealed ball bearings on the tube and an anti-clumping wire in the tube exit to cut down on overthrows.
 
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#29
I ran a bunch of rounds over the Oehler this weekend in 300 PRC, 6 Dasher and 6.5 Creedmoor. All were loaded with this meter. My SD's were literally half of what they have been using the standard V3 setup. Most SD's were less than 5.
 
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#30
Kiba said:
I ordered one last Wednesday, it shipped Friday, and will be here tomorrow.

I've got to load 500 rounds for a buddy this week, looking forward to comparing it to my modified V1 trickler which is running sealed ball bearings on the tube and an anti-clumping wire in the tube exit to cut down on overthrows.
Click to expand...
Guess I should have checked my email more closely. Looks like mine will be delivered tomorrow as well.
 
#32
Can't group Jim said:
I just ordered one this morning. Excited to try it out.
Click to expand...
It’s simply a well-designed piece of equipment that executes as intended. I was mesmerized watching it.

for what it’s worth, I also heard this was basically the first step of the development process. Plans are eventually to modify the system to be a single case filler, instead of filling a cup and then manually filling a case. Given the inventor’s background, I suspect he’ll make it happen. Shuffling cases instead of shuffling a cup to each case would be a significant development.
 
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#33
I received mine today and I am totally impressed!! It's very, very well made, everything fits just like it's supposed to.
Every throw was 10 seconds or less, and no more pesky overthrows!! Super simple to set up. I played with the slider just a touch and it was off and running. No more messing with the little rubber wheel to get the angle right, and now it's really easy to dump the powder out of the trickler when you're done. I'm very pleased with it to say the least.
 
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#36
I initially had some problems with the disk getting stuck. It worked fairly well with H4350, but would only throw two or three charges with 8208 before getting stuck. I sent feedback via the Ingenuity Precision website this morning and Paul called me back on a Sunday! He said cleaning the disk and inside of the cup with alcohol would solve the sticking issue and he was right. Since cleaning it hasn't stuck once. Apparently there is a thin oil film on it - I never even noticed.

Now that it's working properly I really like this thing! Even with some sticking yesterday I loaded 60 6.5 CM rounds and was able to adjust it so it never overthrew and hit the exact charge, but was a little slower to reach the desired charge - around 10 to 12 seconds. I could also set it up to throw faster where some charges were .02 under and some were right on, but would only take around 5 to 6 seconds per charge.
 
#37
I received mine yesterday and immediately set it up. I fine tuned it with the slider and now have it throwing a 41.6gn charge of H4350 in right at 7.5 seconds with no overthrows. I could not be more impressed or pleased.
 
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#38
HemiPowrd said:
I initially had some problems with the disk getting stuck. It worked fairly well with H4350, but would only throw two or three charges with 8208 before getting stuck. I sent feedback via the Ingenuity Precision website this morning and Paul called me back on a Sunday! He said cleaning the disk and inside of the cup with alcohol would solve the sticking issue and he was right. Since cleaning it hasn't stuck once. Apparently there is a thin oil film on it - I never even noticed.

Now that it's working properly I really like this thing! Even with some sticking yesterday I loaded 60 6.5 CM rounds and was able to adjust it so it never overthrew and hit the exact charge, but was a little slower to reach the desired charge - around 10 to 12 seconds. I could also set it up to throw faster where some charges were .02 under and some were right on, but would only take around 5 to 6 seconds per charge.
Click to expand...

set you target at .01 above your desired charge to avoid the .02 underthrow. This is a function of the Autotrickler programming to accept a .02 under or over as acceptable, and since the scale precision is .02 it tends to underthrows be fairly common. By setting your target .01 over the desired charge (like setting it to 41.61 instead of 41.60) you will avoid nearly all underthrows and be right on the money with the kernel drop.
 
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#41
I emailed them and they said a pre-order or something similar would be up soon.

I just got a new v3 from someone who never used it and was hoping to get it up and running with this. Now, who knows when it will be.
 
#45
Cascade Hemi said:
Same. Anyone know when they'll be back in stock?
Click to expand...
It will probably be a couple months. Right now the biggest issue in production is getting the bearings with the correct tolerances. Every bearing must be fitted then measured so the disk sits at the correct height in the cup and due to the variation in bearings this slows assembly and creates a bit of waste in rejected bearings. Paul the designer is working to see if the supplier can get bearings that will be more consistent to speed assembly.

Roughly 300 units were made to see how this would sell. Paul sold out in basically a week. Expect next batch to be roughly a 1000 units or so.
 
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#47
Cynical said:
I can also highly, highly recommend this upgrade. I’ve had it about a month and I’m amazed. It is very fast, id say 6-9s is right on the mark except the 9s cycles are unusual.

The only adjustments you make are to the speed/ramp-down slider on the back of the scale (comes with the v3 unit) depending on powder, and changing the disc in the tickler hopper. With respect to the speed slider, with Varget you run it at its fastest setting. With 4350 about half way. It doesn’t really change cycle time, just gives the right ramp down to adjust for different weight of larger extruded kernels.

This is the real deal. I’m no longer throwing 30-50% overcharges back into the hopper. I set the Autotrickler to 30.21 for Varget and I get a 30.20 grain charge nearly every single time (for real), with may be 2-3 that are 30.18 or 30.22 in a 50 round loading block.

I bought two of these because I used two Autotrickler to keep up/be more efficient. I cannot keep up with one of these, so it lets me keep the other one on a different powder (Staball 6.5 now) with a different disc installed. This upgrade is worth every penny.
Click to expand...
How does it do with staball? I use that for both 6.5cm and 6cm , though I've thought if switching to 4350 on the 6cm.
 
#49
NICETRY said:
There is a disk just for ball powders. Weight of powder dropped per hole in the disc can vary but that’s just due to random size of the ball powder. It’s still faster and more precise than the straw trickler.
Click to expand...
Even with the insert for the straw trickler it's better? I almost never get any overthrows with ball powders since I got the insert tip. Of course the big deal with any of this stuff isnt the ball powder it's the extruded powder.... and that alone makes this with it looks to me.

The only issue I have is under throw by .02, with ball powder that is.
 
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#50
BuildingConceptsllc said:
Even with the insert for the straw teickler it's better? I almost never get N overthrow with ball powders since I got the insert tip. Of course the big deal with any of this stuff is t ball powder it's the extruded powder.... and that alone makes this with it looks to me.

The only issue I have is under throw by .02, with ball powder that is.
Click to expand...
For under throw issues I suggest setting your target weight above what you want by at least .010 but you might play with that to get a more consistent result. With the disk it will drop at a faster rate without overthrowing because when it stops there is no chance of extra powder falling into the cup when scale reaches the target weight. I’ll see if I can get some video of mine dropping staball this week. I have a PRS match coming up so I can throw some in so you can see.
 
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