Upgrade my Savage 12FV to a Tikka CTR?

[Freediver111]

I've never really been that obsessed with shooting, but that recently changed when I decided I was going to try my hand at long(er) range shooting.
On a whim, my buddy and I picked up some Savage 12FV's when they were on sale in 6.5's. Bought an SWFA 10x mil scope and got to shooting.
Well, now I'm fully addicted. I'm hitting the range all the time, burning ammo, and overall just having a blast. I'm getting pretty consistent and can reliably stretch it out to 1100 at our range which is the max distance we can shoot there.

I just finished my Masters degree after doing it part-time while I continued to work. My wife asked me if there was anything I wanted for a grad present and I jokingly said a Tikka CTR 24" in 6.5. Now I think she's working a way to get the family together to make it happen. She's asked me a lot of questions lately about what gun exactly it was I wanted. Not 100% sure, but I'm pretty sure there's something in the works, which is really nice of them and awesome.

So this begs the question: should I get the Tikka, or am I missing out on something else? Here's the thing about my Savage, I like it and it shoots very well, but it's a little cumbersome for hunting, which is what I want to use it for ultimately. I also have this weird thing going on where the first 1-3 shots cold/fouled bore are off, then when it's warm it shoots lights out. Frustrating. I re-torqued the action screws and played around with those. I got it to shoot a little better on the first cold bore shot with the front screw set to 30 in. lbs, and the rear one at 25 in. lbs. Still not perfect, but decent.

Attached are pics. The picture with the shots numbered 1,2,3 are the first 3 shots fired with a cold/fouled bore. Then with a warm gun I shot the 4 shot group also attached. If it always shot .5-.75" groups cold I'd be stoked, but it tends to act weird with a cold bore.

Any thoughts on the Savage cold bore issue? Barrel maybe? Do you think it's worth keeping for my needs, or is a Tikka CTR money well spent for my budding obsession?

Thanks!

 

[IOWASHOOTER]

I also started with a savage and went to a tikka. To me there is a large quality difference between the two and I think it's a very worthwhile upgrade. Going with the Tikka, especially as a gift, is a great way to go and you won't be disappointed.

 

[Big Bo]

I own 2 Savages and just bought a Tikka 6.5CM. Put Burris XTR II 5-25x50`s on the 6.5CM and 308. Took the Sav 308 and Tikka CTR 6.5CM to the range this week and shot the Tikka, got her on paper. Shot a box of 147 Hornady ammo. For a first outing did 3/4" groups. Mind you I only tried 1 brand of ammo. Had not shot the 308 in a couple of years. Got it on paper, 168FGMM 3/4" groups. Then shot some Black Hills 175`s. 1/2" groups. This range only goes to 432 yards. I was banging the steel ram, plates, and chickens at 432 yds.

My son will graduate college next month. I will ask him if he wants a rifle. If so, a Savage 6.5CM will do it.

I ordered a Little Bastard for the CM. I will give her time to shine.

Good luck.

 

[Tunnuh]

I had a Savage in .243 and it was good for a while, the Tikka CTR in .260 I've kept and use now to compete in local precision rifle matches. It will hang with the custom actions and is very nice.

 

[patriot07]

Both Tikka and Savage rifles generally shoot really well. The Tikka has overall better quality, a better trigger, is less likely to have issues with feeding/extraction/ejection, will operate much more smoothly, and just is overall in another class.

I have the Tikka CTR in 6.5. I wish I'd gotten the 20" instead of the 24", and I'd for sure get the shorter gun if I was considering hunting with it at all. The 24" is a big, decently heavy rifle.

 

[Sniperwannabee]

Yes!!!!Tell her you want the Tac A1 T3X

 

[Freediver111]

Yes!!!!Tell her you want the Tac A1 T3X

Haha, I do want the Tac A1, but she’s not THAT happy about me finishing school!

 

[MakeSawdust]

If you were just talking about purchasing one or the other I would say Tikka. However, since you already have the Savage I will tell you that the gun can be made to shoot very well with a high quality, hand lapped prefit barrel. I mostly shoot Criterion and I haven't had any of them where the gun wouldn't consistently shoot half moa (sometimes the shooter is another story). Looking at targets on here I would guess a cut rifled barrel or one of the new Rock Creek button rifled barrels from PVA would probably shoot even better. On the Savage I shoot matches with I did some work to the action that made it smoother and made it extract and eject reliably. Also, on either the CTR or the 12FV I would be looking at a different stock or a chassis.

Either way you go should be fine. You could probably sell the 12FV for cheap and recoup all but a couple hundred dollars. An upgraded CTR will hold its value much better than an upgraded Savage, so there is that if you think you will ever sell the gun to upgrade.

Also, the thing I keep coming to is, it took a lot of work to make the Savage function as nicely as most Tikkas do out of the box. It would be a tough decision for me. Good luck!

 

[Freediver111]

If you were just talking about purchasing one or the other I would say Tikka. However, since you already have the Savage I will tell you that the gun can be made to shoot very well with a high quality, hand lapped prefit barrel. I mostly shoot Criterion and I haven't had any of them where the gun wouldn't consistently shoot half moa (sometimes the shooter is another story). Looking at targets on here I would guess a cut rifled barrel or one of the new Rock Creek button rifled barrels from PVA would probably shoot even better. On the Savage I shoot matches with I did some work to the action that made it smoother and made it extract and eject reliably. Also, on either the CTR or the 12FV I would be looking at a different stock or a chassis.

Either way you go should be fine. You could probably sell the 12FV for cheap and recoup all but a couple hundred dollars. An upgraded CTR will hold its value much better than an upgraded Savage, so there is that if you think you will ever sell the gun to upgrade.

Also, the thing I keep coming to is, it took a lot of work to make the Savage function as nicely as most Tikkas do out of the box. It would be a tough decision for me. Good luck!

I think ultimately my decision is based around your last sentence. While the Savage was a great little starter gun for me, I'm hesitant to drop more money on something that may not really be worth it. By the time I'm done adding a stock, new barrel, etc., I can sell the Savage and use the CTR as is for now. At some point I can add a new stock to the CTR, but the barrel and action on it as stock should be pretty good to go for a while.
I bought the Savage on a whim, and decided to try my hand at dialing/LR shooting. LR being under 1,200 yards, but to me that's a big jump from before. I'm now pretty addicted to LR shooting. I spend way more time at the range than ever before, and invested a fair amount of funds getting set-up for precision reloading with the 6.5.

In the end, my biggest motivating factor is that I don't want to dump too much more money and time trying to solve the little quirks I have with the Savage. I've already burnt a fair amount of time and money shooting and trying to find the issue with why it has some erratic shooting on a cold bore vs once it's warmed up a little. Sure, it very well could be action screws/stock issues, maybe a new barrel, not sure at this point. But chasing those issues costs $ and time, where as I could get the CTR and hopefully it will work well right out of the box and I can just worry about upgrading the stock later on.

Not the easiest call. I could also upgrade my scope, but I don't hate the SWFA 10X I have now. I shoot well with it and other than glass quality lacking in some regards, I don't have a burning desire to get a new one. If I did I'd probably get the Bushnell LRTS 4.5-18x, as I have a pro deal and can snag one for $1,000. But in the end, a nicer scope on a Savage that needs attention and more tinkering is probably not the way to go. I just want to be able to confidently have a gun that shoots exactly the same POI as the last range outing. The Savage is finicky when it comes to that, and as a hunting rifle, not ideal when you want that first shot to count.

 

[Potss]

It seems like this is what the question really boils down to: does your savage ACTION and trigger work well for you? Because you can replace the stock with any number of options like HS or MDT for around $400-500 all told, and the barrel with a PVA Rock Creek, Northland Shooter's Supply Shilen, or Criterion pre-fit all for around another $400-500. So basically the cost would be identical to a Tikka T3x CTR 24in. However, the savage set up like that would now have a significantly nicer stock that would not be holding back the accuracy of the rifle at all, and a much nicer barrel which won't have your cold bore/fouling problem.

In other words, if you took the money you/your wife/fam are going to spend on the Tikka CTR, and spent it replacing the barrel and stock on your savage, you'd end up with a more accurate and erganomic rifle in the end, by a relatively wide margin over the Tikka CTR. It sounds like for what you are doing (bench/range shooting and occasional hunting) that would make the most sense, as it give you the most accuracy potential without being too heavy.

However the savage action will never be as smooth, fast, or nice-feeling as the Tikka. So this is really what it comes down to. Do you want a more accurate and ergonomic rifle off the bat, or one that feeds and cycles smoother (and that you could upgrade later as well)?

 

[Freediver111]

It seems like this is what the question really boils down to: does your savage ACTION and trigger work well for you? Because you can replace the stock with any number of options like HS or MDT for around $400-500 all told, and the barrel with a PVA Rock Creek, Northland Shooter's Supply Shilen, or Criterion pre-fit all for around another $400-500. So basically the cost would be identical to a Tikka T3x CTR 24in. However, the savage set up like that would now have a significantly nicer stock that would not be holding back the accuracy of the rifle at all, and a much nicer barrel which won't have your cold bore/fouling problem.

In other words, if you took the money you/your wife/fam are going to spend on the Tikka CTR, and spent it replacing the barrel and stock on your savage, you'd end up with a more accurate and erganomic rifle in the end, by a relatively wide margin over the Tikka CTR. It sounds like for what you are doing (bench/range shooting and occasional hunting) that would make the most sense, as it give you the most accuracy potential without being too heavy.

However the savage action will never be as smooth, fast, or nice-feeling as the Tikka. So this is really what it comes down to. Do you want a more accurate and ergonomic rifle off the bat, or one that feeds and cycles smoother (and that you could upgrade later as well)?

That is a good question. My Savage action and trigger is fine I guess. I actually don't mind the trigger and have it set as light as it will go. It's a touch heavier than I would ideally want, but pretty close to very good for my needs. I haven't handled a Tikka yet however. That being said, while the action is "fine" on the Savage, it's not exactly smooth or anything to fall in love with. It works, albeit a little clunky and rough I guess you can say.

Tough choice for sure. I'll sit back for a bit and see what the wife comes up with. Interesting to think that a new stock and new barrel would make the Savage more accurate than factory Tikka. Everyone seems to love the Tikka CTR out of the box for accuracy.

 

[patriot07]

It seems like this is what the question really boils down to: does your savage ACTION and trigger work well for you? Because you can replace the stock with any number of options like HS or MDT for around $400-500 all told, and the barrel with a PVA Rock Creek, Northland Shooter's Supply Shilen, or Criterion pre-fit all for around another $400-500. So basically the cost would be identical to a Tikka T3x CTR 24in. However, the savage set up like that would now have a significantly nicer stock that would not be holding back the accuracy of the rifle at all, and a much nicer barrel which won't have your cold bore/fouling problem.

In other words, if you took the money you/your wife/fam are going to spend on the Tikka CTR, and spent it replacing the barrel and stock on your savage, you'd end up with a more accurate and erganomic rifle in the end, by a relatively wide margin over the Tikka CTR. It sounds like for what you are doing (bench/range shooting and occasional hunting) that would make the most sense, as it give you the most accuracy potential without being too heavy.

However the savage action will never be as smooth, fast, or nice-feeling as the Tikka. So this is really what it comes down to. Do you want a more accurate and ergonomic rifle off the bat, or one that feeds and cycles smoother (and that you could upgrade later as well)?

The CTR is only around a $400 upgrade over the Savage. So he could hypothetically upgrade the stock or the barrel, but not both. And even after one of those upgrades, the Savage will likely never feed and eject as reliably as the Tikka. And as mentioned before, an upgraded Savage will never hold value like a stock Tikka or upgraded Tikka.

 

[Potss]

The CTR is only around a $400 upgrade over the Savage. So he could hypothetically upgrade the stock or the barrel, but not both. And even after one of those upgrades, the Savage will likely never feed and eject as reliably as the Tikka. And as mentioned before, an upgraded Savage will never hold value like a stock Tikka or upgraded Tikka.

This is incorrect. As stated in the OP, the wife/fam seem to have around an $800-900 budget for a new CTR. That pool can be spent on a new stock and barrel for the savage. NOW if OP then sells the savage after getting the CTR and you factor that into it, then yes you fall short by $200 or so depending on what it can fetch. But as it stands now, the proposed budget would cover the Savage barrel and stock upgrade.

Now to the OP specifically, no one is calling Tikka T3x CTR's inaccurate, they are pretty exceptional for factory guns at this price point. Accuracy seems to be in the .5-.9moa range with the rare outlier. However, as everyone likes to say you aren't paying for accuracy, but the probability of accuracy. And to put it simply, a PVA Rock Creek or Shilen will on average and with a high probability be more accurate than the Tikka factory barrel. In other words, while it is possible to get a CTR that may shoot .5moa consistently out of the box, and a PVA that will only do .6moa, the probability (and what you are paying for) is going to be the opposite, that the PVA or Shilen will be more accurate by .1-.4 or so depending. The other thing to mention here is that the PVA/Shilen barrels are also likely to be "faster", as in identical loads will likely yield more velocity given the same barrel length. This has been reported a few times with the PVA pre-fits for the Tikka's especially, users picking up 50-100fps which can certainly help at 1000y.

But you can also look at it the other way. You can get the Tikka now, sell the savage, buy a KRG Bravo with the funds, and then when you shoot out the Tikka barrel, just get a PVA pre-fit to replace it. Probably less accuracy now, but the same accuracy as the savage later and with a nicer action to boot. And with the amount it sounds like you are shooting, it might not take that long to need a barrel replacement in 6.5CM.

 

[Freediver111]

All valid points. If I do get funds to buy a CTR, I would sell the Savage. Not sure what I could get for it though considering they sold for $325-ish when the sale was on. I did add a Karsten kydex cheek piece and 20 MOA Tally rail, but even with $100 in aftermarket stuff it's not going to fetch me that much.

I was already looking at the KRG Bravo for the Tikka. Question though: the cheekpiece adjustment wheel is on the left side of the stock. Makes sense since it's for a right hand shooter, but I shoot leftie! Can you swap it to the right side, or not going to work for me?

Lots to consider. The fact that I can swap Savage barrels in my garage is a nice feature. Lots to ponder.....

 

[patriot07]

This is incorrect. As stated in the OP, the wife/fam seem to have around an $800-900 budget for a new CTR.

I perceived his original post to be considering either modifying the Savage or selling it and getting a CTR. Sounds like that is what the OP is intending to do. Given that, it's somewhere around a $400-$500 difference depending on what he can get for the Savage.

Honestly, building on the better action is a much better option IMHO than modifying the Savage. A .5-.9 MOA gun with perfect cycling reliability is much better than a .4-.6 MOA gun with questionable cycling reliability.

 

[Freediver111]

I perceived his original post to be considering either modifying the Savage or selling it and getting a CTR. Sounds like that is what the OP is intending to do. Given that, it's somewhere around a $400-$500 difference depending on what he can get for the Savage.

Honestly, building on the better action is a much better option IMHO than modifying the Savage. A .5-.9 MOA gun with perfect cycling reliability is much better than a .4-.6 MOA gun with questionable cycling reliability.

You are correct, I won't keep the Savage if I decide to get a CTR. The other thing re: the Savage is some primer cratering using Lapua brass and CCI450's. Not terrible, but on occasion I have to file the primer down a touch where the firing pin struck because it won't fit in the shell holder to decap. This is an issue with the firing pin obviously and the use of SR primers. Not sure if Tikka's avoid that, and it's not super annoying, but mildly is at times.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

If you have ever seen any video of how precision barrels get hand lapped, you'll see that it's not something one really needs a PHD to accomplish.

What I'd really appreciate here at the The 'Hide is for somebody who knows how this is done right to do a video or topic about the do's and don'ts.

I'm not talking about making a silk purse out of a sow's ear; I understand that factory barrels have metallurgy and stress relief drawbacks, and probably a litany of more issues as well.

I'm only talking about coming up with something simple and conservative enough to have a good chance of just making something a little better out of what the factory put together at minimal cost.

How about it?

Greg

 

[IOWASHOOTER]

Biggest issue I had with the savage was occasional feeding and ejection issues. Nothing that couldn't be over come. But the CTR shot consistently between .5 and .75 moa and many times better with good ammo. Reliability will not be a question with the Tikka. By comparison, the savage is a clunky and unrefined action. I again vote getting the CTR and you will have a much higher quality gun. Im not saying Savages don't shoot, because they usually do shoot well, but the Tikka is quite a step up.

 

[Ziggy12]

I shoot a Savage Model 12 varmint with a choate stock and no major upgrades. It is an awesomely accurate rifle that I have owned for several years with Leupold glass on it. I have had no problems stretching my bench shooting out to 8-900 yards with this setup. However, I purchased a Tikka CTR 20" barrel in 6.5 creedmoor almost a year ago, put Nightforce SHV glass on and have never looked back. The Tikka action is heads and shoulders above the Savage and the trigger is much better as well. You will not be disappointed with the Tikka in any way besides maybe the stock. I hear people complain about them but I have no issues with the stock on my CTR at all. Best money I have spent on a rifle in a long time is the Tikka CTR.