I got a Tikka T1x that I've run a base class with for a good handful of matches and thinking about jumping into open class. I'm wondering should I spend the money to upgrade my tikka or should I just put that money into something like a vudoo? Would a vudoo even shoot that much better to make it worth it? Be curious to see what everyone thinks.
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upgrade my tikka t1 or get a vudoo
- Thread starter Yeetdude
- Start date
For what it's worth, I think my T1x with a tuner and RWS Rifle Match shoots just as tight groups at 50 yards as my V22 360 with a tuner and Lapua Center-X. If your T1x shoots great and you just want a more comfortable stock and better optic, I'd say that would work just fine. Nothing wrong with spending for a Vudoo if you want one, though.
It doesn't have to be either/or. Upgrade your scope as if you are buying one for a Vudoo. If you find that is the perfect setup, great! If not, you are 1/3 of the way into your Vudoo build. If you find the Tikka stock bothers you, buy another stock or chassis. Once again, if that fits the bill, great! If not, now you know and you can sell it on the exchange.
With availability being what it is right now, I find a gradual process is less stressful, more satisfying and more educational versus the "just do it" COA.
With availability being what it is right now, I find a gradual process is less stressful, more satisfying and more educational versus the "just do it" COA.
I have a Tikka T1X in a KRG Bravo. I have added weight, and it is up to 14 lbs. As far as other guns, have you looked at the Bergara B14R. My B14R and T1X will shoot sub Moa past 200yds in good wind conditions. I have beaten Vudoo's and RimX, with both guns. I beat 3 Vudoo's in one match, with the T1X in the factory stock. It is all about the ammo when shooting long range.
Mark
I'll never figure out why people say, "I beat gun name". You didn't beat the gun, you've never beat the gun...you beat the other shooter.
Once you have a decent rifle - whether it be Vudoo, Tikka, CZ, RimX, Bergara... whatever the brand, your skill as a shooter is what wins matches, not the gun. I have several top-shelf rifles capable of superb accuracy, but, nearing an arthritic 70 years of age, I practically always finish in the lower 50th percentile in matches I shoot. Beating me in a match isn't anything to brag about, and your [whatever] gun didn't beat my Vudoo - you did. (I shoot matches because I've enjoyed the competition environment most of my life, not because I need to win for some kind of personal self-validation.)
If you have the funds for a Vudoo without going into ridiculous debt or sacrificing other necessities, go for it. But keep clearly in mind that buying a Vudoo won't make you any better a shooter than you were to start with. Only practice and experience does that.
EDIT: There are certainly match formats in which a true top-shelf rifle is as important or even more so than shooter skill. I enjoy a little monthly shooting-gallery-style match, shot from a bench with generous par times, where raw gun/ammo accuracy and ability to read wind are key. My comments above apply to PRS-style matches where athleticism also plays an important if not vital role.
If you have the funds for a Vudoo without going into ridiculous debt or sacrificing other necessities, go for it. But keep clearly in mind that buying a Vudoo won't make you any better a shooter than you were to start with. Only practice and experience does that.
EDIT: There are certainly match formats in which a true top-shelf rifle is as important or even more so than shooter skill. I enjoy a little monthly shooting-gallery-style match, shot from a bench with generous par times, where raw gun/ammo accuracy and ability to read wind are key. My comments above apply to PRS-style matches where athleticism also plays an important if not vital role.
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I'll help you spend your money...buy the Vudoo.
On the bravo thought- I put my T1x into the bravo and put an enclosed forend on it. Full length t slot weight, heavy xl arca rail underneath. Vortex strike eagle on top. 13.4 pounds unloaded. And still shoots better than I can - read as "when I miss, I know it was me."
Any rifle/ammo combination is only as good as its driver.
Any rifle/ammo combination is only as good as its driver.
Curious how they compare at 200 and 250M
My quad shoots similar groups to my partners Vudoo at 50M, but at 200 and 250 they show a lot of difference in vertical spread using the same ammo. About 50% more vertical in the Quad. On the other hand my Quad has never had a misfire whereas the Vudoo….
You are correct. I beat shooters that were shooting Vudoo's and RimX'sI'll never figure out why people say, "I beat gun name". You didn't beat the gun, you've never beat the gun...you beat the other shooter.
I added Full length t slot weight and heavy arca rail. It was a little front heavy. I added lead shot in the grip, stock hook area, and in the small area under the adjustable cheek rest. i filled the cavity with shot to get the correct amount, then mixed the shot with 2 part epoxy and filled the cavity with mixed shot.
Krg makes weights for these areas, but lead shot is much cheaper ( i had it )
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Go for the Vudoo - you'll have something you love and know your own skill is the limiting factor
My T1X, with a Bravo stock and LW barrel is as accurate as my Vudoo V22 360. My CZ MTR is more with a factory barrel is more accurate than both. Feeding has been an issue for both. I have yet to see feeding issues with any guys who shoot with that use CZ's (at least 18 MTR's). My Vudoo nose dives and my Tikka stove pipes.
I ran a T1X for a while and it is a great shooter. My issue is the really poorly designed ejector on the T1X that can lead to spent casings not fully coming out of the receiver.
Like many others said practice and more practice is what is going to get you better. Eventually you'll reach a point where your optic is costing you points either due to compromised eye box positioning, maybe clarity or functionality on really crappy weather days.
The chassis aspect I would say you should figure out what you really like and then it comes down to practice and more practice on getting behind it. If there's an inlet on the chassis that you like for the T1X, then get it and start practicing on it over and over. I found the biggest hindrance to my growth was constantly changing up my stuff to the next shiny thing and having inconsistent practice.
The biggest aspect for me was the Tikka's inconsistent ejection. I was losing matches by 1-2 shots only and at that point I didn't want to drop any shots due to an ejection issue so I upgraded.
For Open class, I'd go with either a CZ 457 or a R700 (Vudoo) as the platform. Vudoo gives you a wider selection of triggers and commonality if you're also running Centerfire. But otherwise, the CZ really can do everything and has reliable ejection compared to the Tikka.
Like many others said practice and more practice is what is going to get you better. Eventually you'll reach a point where your optic is costing you points either due to compromised eye box positioning, maybe clarity or functionality on really crappy weather days.
The chassis aspect I would say you should figure out what you really like and then it comes down to practice and more practice on getting behind it. If there's an inlet on the chassis that you like for the T1X, then get it and start practicing on it over and over. I found the biggest hindrance to my growth was constantly changing up my stuff to the next shiny thing and having inconsistent practice.
The biggest aspect for me was the Tikka's inconsistent ejection. I was losing matches by 1-2 shots only and at that point I didn't want to drop any shots due to an ejection issue so I upgraded.
For Open class, I'd go with either a CZ 457 or a R700 (Vudoo) as the platform. Vudoo gives you a wider selection of triggers and commonality if you're also running Centerfire. But otherwise, the CZ really can do everything and has reliable ejection compared to the Tikka.
I have not owned or shot a Tikka. I own a V22, a B14R, a 457 varmint precision chassis, and a full Kidd build in a chassis. For the money, my B14R can hang with my Vudoo. The Vudoo sits in an MPA chassis and shoots lot tested Center X, and the B14R shoots the same Center X (no - it was not lot tested for it) in the factory stock. I have more misfeeds with my Vudoo than with any of the other guns (sure - it sits in a chassis, and I’ve seen all of the videos about magazine alignment, etc). It is frustrating and has caused me to miss shots when it happens, even though it only happens once every 4 or 5 stages. Same mags, same meticulous loading of each mag…
Most guys say buy x or y because it helps validate their own purchase. I see it in the Jeep world all of the time, too. Marketing does great things to make you think you should spend more money for some marginal gain.
My vote is to get better glass, as seeing targets clearly really does matter. I have 3 Athlon Cronus scopes on my rifles, and a Burris XTR 2 on the other. That will bump you into open, but I would argue that is better money spent. Or better money spent first.
I shoot with a guy that won the base class nrl22 championship a few years ago. He shot a Tikka. He shoots a RimX now, but he shared with me that it took a fair amount of time before he shot the RimX to achieve higher scores than the Tikka.
Most guys say buy x or y because it helps validate their own purchase. I see it in the Jeep world all of the time, too. Marketing does great things to make you think you should spend more money for some marginal gain.
My vote is to get better glass, as seeing targets clearly really does matter. I have 3 Athlon Cronus scopes on my rifles, and a Burris XTR 2 on the other. That will bump you into open, but I would argue that is better money spent. Or better money spent first.
I shoot with a guy that won the base class nrl22 championship a few years ago. He shot a Tikka. He shoots a RimX now, but he shared with me that it took a fair amount of time before he shot the RimX to achieve higher scores than the Tikka.
For what it's worth any feeding or ejection issues with the T1X can be resolved with a bit of time and patience.
It's a good but not great rifle, but if you like it - it will work very well. Eventually you will want to upgrade, regardless.
Just get what you like. If a Vudoo makes you feel better and you can afford it, get one. Same with CZ, Rimx, etc.
If you don't like shooting the rifle you have and you like something else better, you just will not shoot as well as you might have.
Regardless of the accuracy of said rifle.
It's a good but not great rifle, but if you like it - it will work very well. Eventually you will want to upgrade, regardless.
Just get what you like. If a Vudoo makes you feel better and you can afford it, get one. Same with CZ, Rimx, etc.
If you don't like shooting the rifle you have and you like something else better, you just will not shoot as well as you might have.
Regardless of the accuracy of said rifle.
That's a good idea, I've been placing pretty decent so far and would say the thing holding me back is my glass,
Great comment by a couple guys about beating the shooter and not the gun. And only practice will make you better. This is one reason I went with a B14. It was available and it got me in to PRS right away and gaining experience. I need to shoot more comps and overall get better at running stages. So spending vudoo money didn’t make sense. I’d still be no better or worse when running stages at comps. The guys winning matches are just fast at getting on target and making the hit. And that is all practice and experience. All the guns are accurate, comes down to the shooter.
I own the same guns or have owned the same guns as this poster has. What i see I can run my productions guns as fast as I want. Cz, bergara, kidd. No issues. Tikka was about the same. Vudoo.....just do it the same. I can run it fast or slow. Just have to have consistent mechanics and then I see no difference. To be honest when yilou get to the nitro series of rimfire drag racers I think you are better off order it built and tested. A vudoo from vudoo. A rimx from TS customs or keystone accuracy. Let them build it, set it up, put in your chassis or stock and let them fine tune it. No complaints no fiddling no fuss. That being said....my fav do it yourself custom for no issues is a cz 457 vpt, lilja, timney. The only drawback I see with it is reloading in a timed event ans trying to hit the hole with the mag. This is where the AICS mag pattern excels. Especially the Bergara mags. No special loading, no aligning. Jam them in and go to it. The Rimx I had was a lovely action. A blend of vudoo and bergara. Really nice mags too.
In my testing off the bags the b14 punches way above its price point. While not as refined or not as consistent as the vudoo long range on steel.....the bergara would get it done. Ammo testing, wind calls going to make way more of a difference than .25 gun vs a 3/8 gun
Exactly. The difference in accuracy is so minute that if u miss the target it’s because of wind. Or your dope is off. It’s not the gun at all. And I’d have to say 99% of all misses are the shooter. Not the equipment.
Yep agreed. I like the vudoo bc it's sooooo nice. At 50yds I can lay a cars on the table that has cz 457 lilja, bergara, cz 457 16in barrel, vudoo, rim x, kidd. You would not be able to tell who is who. Put a mic on them still not likely. Vudoo, cz/lilja. Bergara, kidd with ammo it likes are all consistent. All under 3/8 of an inch. I typically get the the .30 .31 avg from bergara and cz lilja. Kidd will be in the .34 .35 to .4. Vudoo .27 to .30
This is repeated over 100s of groups. And the kidd, cz lilja, and bergara I can run like a raped ape and no failures. I run the vudoo slower just because I like doing so.
Lol. I will say the vudoo action is so nice. It’s like butter. That’s the one area Bergara could improve. The B14 action is clunky and offers too much resistance/pressure. I guess u get used to it. I know I have.
This comes up all the time in my Facebook group and the reality is that we're living in the golden age of rimfires!
You can win a match with any of a dozen different rifles at this point...it's all on the shooter...
You can win a match with any of a dozen different rifles at this point...it's all on the shooter...
I normally shoot a Vudoo in my competitions and have been placing well. It's out at Lapua for testing right now so for yesterday's NRL22 match I shot my friend's base class RPRR with a Vortex Diamondback Tactical 6-24... this is compared to my other rig which is a 360 in an Envy Pro and a ZCO 5-27.
I spent the previous day zeroing to get my dope, using my own Center-X lot that I use in my other rifles. The RPRR groups okay, .5" at 50, 1.5" at 100, 3.25" at 150, and 6" at 200. The group sizes for 50 and 100 will work for any of the NRL22 Option 1 distances perfectly fine. I think the biggest thing people leave out is that regardless of what rifle you're going to shoot, consistent ammo that matches your rifle is really important. So if you stay Tikka or CZ or B14R, you're going to need to find the ammo that you can count on and you know how it behaves in the rifle.
The RPRR performed perfectly fine. The trigger broke crisp enough that I didn't have any issues, this was a 2.5lb trigger, but it was predictable. I never had an issue pulling too early or having my shot off due to needing some sort of 8oz trigger. I noticed that since I knew the rifle would group a little bigger, I was paying a lot more attention to my fundamentals to limit the wobble zone and have a much better follow through to have the highest chances of success. With a Vudoo I can flick the trigger and get away with it, but with the RPRR I did pay more attention. With the Vudoo I was able to do the 10 shot KYL stage in 40s, with the RPRR I took a little more time to make sure I was super steady and did it in 67s. Other stages were all similar in that I just took a little more time and paid more attention to detail, but nothing near timing out. The extra attention to detail actually made me do better overall.
Comparing scopes... I was very surprised at how much I enjoyed shooting the DBT 6-24. Once setup for me correctly (eye relief, cheek height, etc.) I had no problems getting behind it. I actually got behind it easier than my Vudoo, I think because my Vudoo is sitting at 50moa rail, and the RPRR is 30moa, that little extra decline I probably need a little more adjustment on my Vudoo's setup to get it more in tune. I might also just drop my Vudoo back down to a 30moa. Out to 200y I had no problems finding steel, holding over. Never blamed any shots saying if only I had my ZCO, the DBT worked very well. Now the turrets suck, only 6mils a revolution is lame, no zero stop, etc... finicky parallax, etc.. but optics wise I could see the targets, and ran the match around 12-16x. There was some heavy fog that rolled in, and yes it got trickier, and the ZCO definitely made it easier to see some targets through the fog just because of the additional clarity of shot out gray targets on a gray background, but honestly I don't think the scope is the limiting factor either unless you're really counting 1-2 shots off the podium. Vortex's thick reticle is really nice, allowing you to use it down at 10x. So I'd highly recommend somewhere in the Strike Eagle kind of glass would be good enough for a long time.
So rifle / ammo combo I think any of these rifles are going to be good enough for 100y and in competitions. When you're talking about 200y+ yes there's going to be a lot more reliability in a very tuned match barrel. 6" group at 200 vs a 3" group at 200 gives me an additional .4 mils of wobble, but in general competitions are created to be able to be shot by a 6" 200y rifle.
The Tikka T1X is also a much more accurate rifle than the RPRR. The Tikka T1X matched with a good lot of Eley Match/ Eley Tenex has been some of my smallest 6x5's at 50 and 100y.
Anyhow what all this boils down to is just do a lot of practice. You can do majority of dry firing. Use good, reliable, consistent ammo in matches, and don't keep swapping ammo. You should be confident that you know the exact dope of your ammo at distance. For the RPRR, I created a new profile in my Kestrel, set the correct bore height, chose the center-X AB custom curve profile, plugged in the velocity, and it just worked.
I spent the previous day zeroing to get my dope, using my own Center-X lot that I use in my other rifles. The RPRR groups okay, .5" at 50, 1.5" at 100, 3.25" at 150, and 6" at 200. The group sizes for 50 and 100 will work for any of the NRL22 Option 1 distances perfectly fine. I think the biggest thing people leave out is that regardless of what rifle you're going to shoot, consistent ammo that matches your rifle is really important. So if you stay Tikka or CZ or B14R, you're going to need to find the ammo that you can count on and you know how it behaves in the rifle.
The RPRR performed perfectly fine. The trigger broke crisp enough that I didn't have any issues, this was a 2.5lb trigger, but it was predictable. I never had an issue pulling too early or having my shot off due to needing some sort of 8oz trigger. I noticed that since I knew the rifle would group a little bigger, I was paying a lot more attention to my fundamentals to limit the wobble zone and have a much better follow through to have the highest chances of success. With a Vudoo I can flick the trigger and get away with it, but with the RPRR I did pay more attention. With the Vudoo I was able to do the 10 shot KYL stage in 40s, with the RPRR I took a little more time to make sure I was super steady and did it in 67s. Other stages were all similar in that I just took a little more time and paid more attention to detail, but nothing near timing out. The extra attention to detail actually made me do better overall.
Comparing scopes... I was very surprised at how much I enjoyed shooting the DBT 6-24. Once setup for me correctly (eye relief, cheek height, etc.) I had no problems getting behind it. I actually got behind it easier than my Vudoo, I think because my Vudoo is sitting at 50moa rail, and the RPRR is 30moa, that little extra decline I probably need a little more adjustment on my Vudoo's setup to get it more in tune. I might also just drop my Vudoo back down to a 30moa. Out to 200y I had no problems finding steel, holding over. Never blamed any shots saying if only I had my ZCO, the DBT worked very well. Now the turrets suck, only 6mils a revolution is lame, no zero stop, etc... finicky parallax, etc.. but optics wise I could see the targets, and ran the match around 12-16x. There was some heavy fog that rolled in, and yes it got trickier, and the ZCO definitely made it easier to see some targets through the fog just because of the additional clarity of shot out gray targets on a gray background, but honestly I don't think the scope is the limiting factor either unless you're really counting 1-2 shots off the podium. Vortex's thick reticle is really nice, allowing you to use it down at 10x. So I'd highly recommend somewhere in the Strike Eagle kind of glass would be good enough for a long time.
So rifle / ammo combo I think any of these rifles are going to be good enough for 100y and in competitions. When you're talking about 200y+ yes there's going to be a lot more reliability in a very tuned match barrel. 6" group at 200 vs a 3" group at 200 gives me an additional .4 mils of wobble, but in general competitions are created to be able to be shot by a 6" 200y rifle.
The Tikka T1X is also a much more accurate rifle than the RPRR. The Tikka T1X matched with a good lot of Eley Match/ Eley Tenex has been some of my smallest 6x5's at 50 and 100y.
Anyhow what all this boils down to is just do a lot of practice. You can do majority of dry firing. Use good, reliable, consistent ammo in matches, and don't keep swapping ammo. You should be confident that you know the exact dope of your ammo at distance. For the RPRR, I created a new profile in my Kestrel, set the correct bore height, chose the center-X AB custom curve profile, plugged in the velocity, and it just worked.
