Night Vision Upgrading from Budget Thermal to Mid-level

[diggler1833]

Just took delivery of my new Pulsar Thermion XP50 this morning. So far all I've done is mount it to an existing American Defense mount and slap it on my 6.5 Grendel for some testing/comparison against my older Trail XQ38.

I expect a lot more out of a 640 unit with the advertised NETD <40mk sensor, but I want to show both myself and anyone else who is curious about what that extra $1300 - 1800 gets you, or if you can do just fine with a $3,200 unit. My initial opinion is that the less expensive unit is just fine, and the money saved can get you a pretty good rig to put it on. That firmware update V.4.0 was a real game changer for Pulsar's 384 units.

Ordered mine from Travis at Fox Optic. Huge shoutout to him because the local mail courier signed my name for me and stuck the package in the wrong mailbox. Not going to lie, I crapped bricks for about 18 hours until I may or MAY NOT have checked that particular wrong mailbox after the post office informed me where it might be. Travis immediately started working with me on the issue, contacting me off hours to ask about the issue...plus he throws in two free APS3 batteries as well as a QD mount if you don't have a good one laying around. The batteries are a huge plus because the Thermions go through a battery fast.

As usual, I'll post a crappy video showcasing my Windows 95 talents and eight-year old editing skills. For now, here is a picture of my tried and true Trail on my 6.8 below what will eventually replace it. Not going to lie, that Trail has provided probably 450 hours of trouble free awesomeness. Hopefully the Thermion is just as reliable

 

[wigwamitus]

What center height is that mount ??

 

[diggler1833]

What center height is that mount ??

Man, you just stumped the crap out of me . I had to grab a tape measure, but it would appear to be the 1.470" height.

 

[wigwamitus]

When I had the Thermion I was testing ... all I had available were 1.3 rings and they were two low ... so I had to rummage and find 2 very short risers, 0.5 and that worked, but I was up pretty high. 1.470 should work fine ... but get too low on a stoner and you have to tilt your head sideways and with this scope, the objective would contact the rail.

 

[diggler1833]

No doubt. As of right now I've got about a quarter inch of clearance between the focus ring and rail. Anything lower and it would be a no-go for sure. This mount is definitely cheek-weld friendly for the non-adjustable AR stocks.

 

[shoots100]

I have the XP38 thermion and it fit nicely in a riton QD mount, with 1/4" room to spare.
The bigger obj of the XP50 would be very close to hitting.
I'm sure your going to like your thermion and will end up using the trail as a backup/loaner scope.
To solve the loose battery sitting in charging system issue, I use two thick rubber bands that are used to bundle asparagus, to hold them in place.
I carry a booster pack in my hunting rig and use a usb adapter to charge them in the field if needed.
I also carry two cylindrical 3,000 mah battery packs, just in case murphy comes calling.
I ended up buying more batteries and been really strict with putting the scope in sleep mode(Display off) so it hasn't been a real issue with draining the batteries down.
Plus with the internal battery, you just swap out the dead batteries, so the scope never shuts off.
I don't use all of the bells and whistles when hunting, so I get a good 3+ hours on a fully charged APS2 battery.
Good luck with it and I'm sure we'll be seeing the results of your tests soon.
SJC

 

[napt0wnc1ty99]

Excited to see the videos!

 

[Burning sensation]

Congrats! That is exciting. Looking forward to seeing some hog slaying videos taken with the new toy.

 

[diggler1833]

Update #1: Damn internal battery isn't working...LOL! The icon just flickered a couple of times and that was all she wrote. Tried removing the external battery while it was on just to see, and the scope died. I still spent another 5-10 minutes behind it as the external battery works just fine.

First impressions: Aside from the SNAFU, the optic is noticeably clearer than than the non-<40mk 384 units...but not amazingly, 'angels were singing' better. Even with a 640 unit, it definitely falls behind the Trijicon and N-Vision units, but it's not a mile behind. Focus is also much more critical on these...guess that's why I see a lot of blurry Thermion videos. The focus on my Trail is much more forgiving.

So far my stance is this: If you're going to try to be a YouTube star, perhaps the XP50 will be a better bet as I'm sure the video recording will be an improvement. I started recording my stuff just to show other cattlemen that I am safe around their herds. I'll never have to worry about being Todd Huey...not enough pigs here, my skills on runners aren't nearly as good as his, and my video editing sucks. If shooting game is all you're going to do, and you're not in a click that requires the use of the most expensive gear...the 384 units will serve you just fine. I sold two .308s and will be selling my Trail XQ38 to fund this...and I'm not sure I'm getting my money's worth at this point...which is of course, subject to change.

Well, guess I'll find out just how awesome the CS really is. I'll see if I can still grab some video before I send it in. Everything else appears to be in working order.

 

[wigwamitus]

One "measure" I was using to judge "image" and "focus" and "contrast" and "brightness" etc. was looking at barbed wire.

WIth the UTC/x/xii or skeet/patrol ... the barbed wire shows as "shinny strands" ... in some cases, the Thermion could not see the barbed wire. But adjusting the magnification, the distance (by moving me) the contrast, the focus, etc. I was able to get the barbed wire to be visible, though it wasn't "shinny strands" like the BAE core devices were.

I have a solar panel (powering an electric fence) at about 400yds from my garage. Its about 1 foot by 1.5 foot solar panel. Its "cool" ... so normally its a white rectangle to the BAE devices (I'm usually on black hot). And it has sharp edges with the BAE units. WIth the Thermion v2 the edges were fuzzy. I tried 8x (4x digital on top of 2x native) ... and I focused and I adjusted contrast and brightness ... and nuc'd the sh^t out of it ... but it was still fuzzy ... at 4x (2x digital, 2x native) it was pretty close to the BAE units but not at 8x.

But again, the Thermion XP50 v2 is a $5k MSRP device and the others I'm comparing it to are at least 1.4x in price and the UTC/x/xii avg close to 4x as much in price.

 

[diggler1833]

Definitely BAE > NETD <40mk.

That looks like a math problem.

 

[wigwamitus]

Why do you include "NETD" in the "relation" ??

 

[diggler1833]

Because if the noise equivalent temperature difference is good enough to advertise about, then it's good enough for any relation . Probably should have put the "NETD<40mk" in parentheses. Surprised that they aren boasting about still using 17 micron too...

 

[Burning sensation]

Just took delivery of my new Pulsar Thermion XP50 this morning. So far all I've done is mount it to an existing American Defense mount and slap it on my 6.5 Grendel for some testing/comparison against my older Trail XQ38.

I expect a lot more out of a 640 unit with the advertised NETD <40mk sensor, but I want to show both myself and anyone else who is curious about what that extra $1300 - 1800 gets you, or if you can do just fine with a $3,200 unit. My initial opinion is that the less expensive unit is just fine, and the money saved can get you a pretty good rig to put it on. That firmware update V.4.0 was a real game changer for Pulsar's 384 units.

Ordered mine from Travis at Fox Optic. Huge shoutout to him because the local mail courier signed my name for me and stuck the package in the wrong mailbox. Not going to lie, I crapped bricks for about 18 hours until I may or MAY NOT have checked that particular wrong mailbox after the post office informed me where it might be. Travis immediately started working with me on the issue, contacting me off hours to ask about the issue...plus he throws in two free APS3 batteries as well as a QD mount if you don't have a good one laying around. The batteries are a huge plus because the Thermions go through a battery fast.

As usual, I'll post a crappy video showcasing my Windows 95 talents and eight-year old editing skills. For now, here is a picture of my tried and true Trail on my 6.8 below what will eventually replace it. Not going to lie, that Trail has provided probably 450 hours of trouble free awesomeness. Hopefully the Thermion is just as reliable

View attachment 7344027

Update #1: Damn internal battery isn't working...LOL! The icon just flickered a couple of times and that was all she wrote. Tried removing the external battery while it was on just to see, and the scope died. I still spent another 5-10 minutes behind it as the external battery works just fine.

First impressions: Aside from the SNAFU, the optic is noticeably clearer than than the non-<40mk 384 units...but not amazingly, 'angels were singing' better. Even with a 640 unit, it definitely falls behind the Trijicon and N-Vision units, but it's not a mile behind. Focus is also much more critical on these...guess that's why I see a lot of blurry Thermion videos. The focus on my Trail is much more forgiving.

So far my stance is this: If you're going to try to be a YouTube star, perhaps the XP50 will be a better bet as I'm sure the video recording will be an improvement. I started recording my stuff just to show other cattlemen that I am safe around their herds. I'll never have to worry about being Todd Huey...not enough pigs here, my skills on runners aren't nearly as good as his, and my video editing sucks. If shooting game is all you're going to do, and you're not in a click that requires the use of the most expensive gear...the 384 units will serve you just fine. I sold two .308s and will be selling my Trail XQ38 to fund this...and I'm not sure I'm getting my money's worth at this point...which is of course, subject to change.

Well, guess I'll find out just how awesome the CS really is. I'll see if I can still grab some video before I send it in. Everything else appears to be in working order.

To me, the big benefit between the XQ & XP scopes is the magnification. My XQ50 does fine as long as I’m not in really close, then I start wondering why I let my buddy (who has way more $$ than me, but is too cheap to buy a scope) use my XP50. I like the 1.6 magnification enough that I often wish I had gotten a XP38.
Keep working on those videos, and you could give Huey some competition!

 

[shoots100]

Update #1: Damn internal battery isn't working...LOL! The icon just flickered a couple of times and that was all she wrote. Tried removing the external battery while it was on just to see, and the scope died. I still spent another 5-10 minutes behind it as the external battery works just fine.
Well, guess I'll find out just how awesome the CS really is. I'll see if I can still grab some video before I send it in. Everything else appears to be in working order.

Did you fully charge the internal battery before use ?
It took mine a couple of hours before it was fully charged.
Are you comparing the mid $$$ 640 pulsar to high end $$$ Trij or N vision ?
I would also call Travis and have him walk you through the issue before sending it back to pulsar.
SJC

 

[diggler1833]

To me, the big benefit between the XQ & XP scopes is the magnification. My XQ50 does fine as long as I’m not in really close, then I start wondering why I let my buddy (who has way more $$ than me, but is too cheap to buy a scope) use my XP50. I like the 1.6 magnification enough that I often wish I had gotten a XP38.
Keep working on those videos, and you could give Huey some competition!

I absolutely agree. I really liked the new base magnification coming with the Thermion (and maybe soon) Trail 2 models..
But, I mostly use my scope as a scanner as I spend way more time looking for things to shoot rather than on the trigger. Before I made this last purchase I started reviewing my own footage, trying to see if I would benefit more from higher native magnification, or field of view. FOV won.

With such a narrow field of view, the higher base magnification is is going to offer less 'utilitarian ' value to how I hunt. Maybe the upcoming XQ38 with 2.5x native magnification is the sweet spot.

 

[diggler1833]

Did you fully charge the internal battery before use ?
It took mine a couple of hours before it was fully charged.
Are you comparing the mid $$$ 640 pulsar to high end $$$ Trij or N vision ?
I would also call Travis and have him walk you through the issue before sending it back to pulsar.
SJC

Gave it four hours with the scope hooked up and APS2 in...mostly because I had to go out and spray a couple pastures.

When I powered the unit on, I got two real quick flickers about 10-15 seconds in of the internal battery display. Then it went away completely, never to return. It doesn't show a dead battery...it doesn't show up period...just an empty slot next to battery two (which shows just fine).

I then charged the unit with no external battery for a while again, and had the same results...but with no flickering.

I am comparing the Thermion XP50 to everything. Some people can afford a $9K optic, others may miss a season of hunting or sell some prized possessions to get one...they may want to see a few opinions here and there on whether sitting out a year is worth it. As far as image quality, there is no comparison. But for simplicity out of the box, Pulsar has that figured out.

I may bug Travis again. This isn't the first Thermion I've played with, but it is the first one I've owned. I'd much rather have a little egg on my face than have to trust the local carriers again. This scope was misplaced by the USPS courier, and I had the FedEx lady let some dude sign for me for a Bushnell LRTSi a month ago...obviously I've never seen it and FedEx is playing fucking games. The downside to living way out in the boonies.

 

[shoots100]

Well that sucks about the internal battery.
Hopefully Travis may be of some help, but it sounds like the internal battery is either disconnected or dead.
At least you were able to run it on the external battery.
I agree about the FOV of the XP50 , that's one of the main reasons why I got an XP38.
While I don't use it as a spotter, I do hunt in close quarters and heavily wooded areas and the FOV of the XP38 works very well in those type of environments.
The other reason is that I've never had any luck with a whatever 50 designated pulsar scope.
Anything designated with a 50 from pulsar that I've owned has shit the bed, so I learned my lesson and luckily the XP38 has all the features I wanted in a scope.
I hope you get the scope issue taken care of.
At least you still have the trail scope to use.
SJC

 

[diggler1833]

Well that sucks about the internal battery.
Hopefully Travis may be of some help, but it sounds like the internal battery is either disconnected or dead.
At least you were able to run it on the external battery.
I agree about the FOV of the XP50 , that's one of the main reasons why I got an XP38.
While I don't use it as a spotter, I do hunt in close quarters and heavily wooded areas and the FOV of the XP38 works very well in those type of environments.
The other reason is that I've never had any luck with a whatever 50 designated pulsar scope.
Anything designated with a 50 from pulsar that I've owned has shit the bed, so I learned my lesson and luckily the XP38 has all the features I wanted in a scope.
I hope you get the scope issue taken care of.
At least you still have the trail scope to use.
SJC

Man, I've had around 450 trouble free hours on this XQ38. It might not have a lot to brag about, but it has been reliable and serviceable since day one. Haven't touched the zero in 18 months and killed stuff from 20 - 90 degrees Fahrenheit.

 

[diggler1833]

Well that sucks about the internal battery.
Hopefully Travis may be of some help, but it sounds like the internal battery is either disconnected or dead.
At least you were able to run it on the external battery.
I agree about the FOV of the XP50 , that's one of the main reasons why I got an XP38.
While I don't use it as a spotter, I do hunt in close quarters and heavily wooded areas and the FOV of the XP38 works very well in those type of environments.
The other reason is that I've never had any luck with a whatever 50 designated pulsar scope.
Anything designated with a 50 from pulsar that I've owned has shit the bed, so I learned my lesson and luckily the XP38 has all the features I wanted in a scope.
I hope you get the scope issue taken care of.
At least you still have the trail scope to use.
SJC

I might have that egg on my face too...plugged/unplugged the unit several times pretty forcefully (may have done so a little childishly...but I was irritated) and its showing the internal battery now.

Either I'm a gigantic pussy who didn't use enough man when plugging it in several times, or I've got a loose connection that temporarily fixed itself during my moment of irritability. At this point I'd settle for being a gigantic pussy if it meant not having to send the unit in...BTW, the plug that goes to the unit does not seat all the way in (still has a gap between plastic and housing). Seems wierd.

Got some shitty video done tonight with both units. I've been an amateur all day no matter the task. Better hit the rack before I screw something else up.