An old photo I found today while digging through old crap. This is a US Optics 1.8-10x44 with prototype knobs as submitted for the USMC RFP for replacement of the Unertl MST100. I took this photo in about 2005. I later gave the scope away….
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US Optics Scout-Sniper Day Scope prototype
- Thread starter Skunk
- Start date
Well, that was a stupid thing to do… 
Hopefully whoever got it put it to good use! I used to have a few classic USOs including an ST10 w/ ERGO. Man, I loved that scope!
Hopefully whoever got it put it to good use! I used to have a few classic USOs including an ST10 w/ ERGO. Man, I loved that scope!
Gave it to a LtCol I knew who was going hunting in CO and needed a scope. There were two of the scopes at one point. The other had Unertl knobs on it.
They were awesome when you basically built them custom with their scope builder. Things changed when they relocated to NC.
I built that scope with the very first dual detent elevation knob, which we patented. The dual detent, or Multiple Tactile Click (MTC), knobs were later seen on Schmidt Bender and Premier Reticles scopes used on the M40’s and other sniper weapons.
At that point, an EREK knob had never been put on a 1.8-10X. In order to get the click value to be .5MOA, I had to shorten the ocular end of the tube about .1” to get the erector fulcrum to knob spacing correct. You can see where I cut the forward edge of the magnification ring for fitment as evidenced by the raw aluminum. The elevation knob was simply marked with .5MOA tick marks and yardages out to 1000 yards. The BDC was the same as the Unertl values.
The Windage knob was also a first for USO. The clicks were .5MOA and the knob had a stop to limit travel in either direction. If I remember correctly, it went 10MOA in both directions. It was basically a Unertl windage knob made of modern materials, etc.
When the RFP finally came out, the Corps wanted more than 10X magnification, but not more than 15X. So, we adapted the elevation knob to the 3.2-17X44, laser engraved the scopes as 3.5-15X44 and sent them. It was kinda funny because the 3.2-17X was closer to 19X in reality….
Anyway, I had a good time at USO during that period.
At that point, an EREK knob had never been put on a 1.8-10X. In order to get the click value to be .5MOA, I had to shorten the ocular end of the tube about .1” to get the erector fulcrum to knob spacing correct. You can see where I cut the forward edge of the magnification ring for fitment as evidenced by the raw aluminum. The elevation knob was simply marked with .5MOA tick marks and yardages out to 1000 yards. The BDC was the same as the Unertl values.
The Windage knob was also a first for USO. The clicks were .5MOA and the knob had a stop to limit travel in either direction. If I remember correctly, it went 10MOA in both directions. It was basically a Unertl windage knob made of modern materials, etc.
When the RFP finally came out, the Corps wanted more than 10X magnification, but not more than 15X. So, we adapted the elevation knob to the 3.2-17X44, laser engraved the scopes as 3.5-15X44 and sent them. It was kinda funny because the 3.2-17X was closer to 19X in reality….
Anyway, I had a good time at USO during that period.
Back in the day I had USO build 2 scopes for me. The 1.8-10x44, blue illuminated ret, internal bubble level, and cerakoted FTE, and the 3.2-17x44 with ARD, green ret and cerakoted OD green. This was like 20 years ago. Will take turret pics tomorrow and post here. I still have and use both. Dated tech by today's standards but tier 1 back in the day. Still work perfectly. Great business model. The customer went online, ordered the exact scope he wanted, color, features, everything. USO made them as ordered. Hated to see them change.
Still are among those of us who hang in Vintage…
As good today as 20 years ago…
Sirhr
Edit: I will add that applies to the ones I bought back then… and own from that vintage. They were not the same after getting sold. I have one NC scope and it is a decent hunting rifle scope. Not a Heritage series. Or whatever it is. But it’s nothing like my JBW scopes!
No, the windage knob on that prototype was just a smaller version of the EREK elevation knob. It had a center screw which adjusted POI, instead of loosening the knob cap to spin like the US#1 knob you pictured.
It looked similar, but was larger in diameter and lower profile.
USO made three 7.62x51mm scopes (M40A3) and three .50BMG scopes (M107) in 2005. These 6 prototype scopes were tested by the USMC and were in competition for the SSDS contract that Premier Reticle won. Premier Reticle submitted their gen 2 duplex mil-dot reticle equipped S&B 3-12x scopes, and they got the USMC contract, not S&B. All of the USMC S&B M8541 scopes were shipped in pieces (down to the individual screws) to Premier Reticle, who then built each scope for the Corps. I'm only aware of 1 USO 7.62x51mm scope that still exists, and 2 USO .50BMG scopes that still exist from this contract submission. So, half of the 6 test scopes are either lost/broken, or in collections somewhere.
I actually have 1 of the 3 USO .50BMG test scopes that was made in 2005 and was in the running to be the Corps new SSDS. The scope is 3.5-15x, it has a BDC elevation knob for the Mk211 ammo (300 yard zero to 1,800 yards, 55MOA of total travel), and it has 10MOA each direction for the windage. I also have the original (not a copy) of the USO paperwork for this scope, notice the customer name in the lower right-hand corner. The provenance doesn't get better than this!
Here's another extraordinary piece of USMC/USO history that has never been shown publicly before (I acquired this scope a few years ago, and the previous owner purchased it directly from the CEO/President of USO John Williams). This is 1 of 3 prototype USO MST-150 scopes that were made to show the Corps that USO could build new MST-150 scopes from scratch. These 3 scopes didn't just show off USO's technical prowess and optical capabilities, the scopes went through a rigorous physical test and evaluation (T&E). Even though the prototype USO MST-150's went through this intense testing, they passed the Corps' high standards. However, even after passing the T&E, the Marines decided that they would save lot of money by just having USO refurbish and convert their 7.62x51mm MST-100's to .50BMG MST-150's. Since the Marines went with the refurbished and converted option, no more USO MST-150's were ever made! This is the highest serial number MST-150 ever made, serial number 5999, and the very last MST-150 ever made!
This scope and document is important in documenting what the Corps differ with their .50BMG scopes for their Barrett rifles. There's a lot of speculation as to what .50BMG Unertl scopes were first issued on the Barrett M82A1's, but the history is now known. The USMC Gulf War M82A1 rifles used Unertl MST-100's that were taken off M40A1's (or possibly provided as new scopes by Unertl). That's right, the Gulf War issued scopes that were used on the .50BMG M82A1 rifles were in fact 7.62x51 BDC MST-100 scopes!
This is a fact that has been established: by talking to the Marines who were issued these rifles, and talking to Marines (after the Gulf War) about how they worked with the Scout Sniper school houses to determine the Mk211 .50BMG dope that could be used as a BDC for the Unertl MST-150 scopes that would be made years later in the mid-1990's. When the Corps needed more of these scopes, USO had already taken over the contract for the MST-100/MST-150, and made the 3 prototype MST-150's to show the Corps their capabilities. Instead of spending money on new scopes, the Corps had USO refurbish and modify some of their MST-100 7.62x51mm scopes and turn them into MST-150 .50BMG scopes.
So, the Barrett M82A1 .50BMG rifles were first issued with the 7.62x51 MST-100's, then with .50BMG MST-150's, then finally with 7.62x51 MST-100's that were converted by USO to .50BMG MST-150's. Many people assume (wrongly) that the Gulf War M82A1's were issued with .50BMG MST-150's (either new .50BMG from Unertl or converted 7.62x51 scopes), but we now know that the Marines used 7.62x51 MST-100's during that war.
This is a pretty unique piece of USMC history, and who knows where the other 2 of the 3 scopes are right now. Maybe in collections somewhere? Maybe the Corps kept them? Maybe the CMP sold them? I have no idea.
And for the previous discussion about the USO patent information being engraved on turrets, here is my original& DRMO USMC M8541 SSDS on my M40A6:
The information in this post should be correct, but I'll defer to @Skunk for the final word on anything USO related. He's easily the expert in this area!
I actually have 1 of the 3 USO .50BMG test scopes that was made in 2005 and was in the running to be the Corps new SSDS. The scope is 3.5-15x, it has a BDC elevation knob for the Mk211 ammo (300 yard zero to 1,800 yards, 55MOA of total travel), and it has 10MOA each direction for the windage. I also have the original (not a copy) of the USO paperwork for this scope, notice the customer name in the lower right-hand corner. The provenance doesn't get better than this!
Here's another extraordinary piece of USMC/USO history that has never been shown publicly before (I acquired this scope a few years ago, and the previous owner purchased it directly from the CEO/President of USO John Williams). This is 1 of 3 prototype USO MST-150 scopes that were made to show the Corps that USO could build new MST-150 scopes from scratch. These 3 scopes didn't just show off USO's technical prowess and optical capabilities, the scopes went through a rigorous physical test and evaluation (T&E). Even though the prototype USO MST-150's went through this intense testing, they passed the Corps' high standards. However, even after passing the T&E, the Marines decided that they would save lot of money by just having USO refurbish and convert their 7.62x51mm MST-100's to .50BMG MST-150's. Since the Marines went with the refurbished and converted option, no more USO MST-150's were ever made! This is the highest serial number MST-150 ever made, serial number 5999, and the very last MST-150 ever made!
This scope and document is important in documenting what the Corps differ with their .50BMG scopes for their Barrett rifles. There's a lot of speculation as to what .50BMG Unertl scopes were first issued on the Barrett M82A1's, but the history is now known. The USMC Gulf War M82A1 rifles used Unertl MST-100's that were taken off M40A1's (or possibly provided as new scopes by Unertl). That's right, the Gulf War issued scopes that were used on the .50BMG M82A1 rifles were in fact 7.62x51 BDC MST-100 scopes!
This is a fact that has been established: by talking to the Marines who were issued these rifles, and talking to Marines (after the Gulf War) about how they worked with the Scout Sniper school houses to determine the Mk211 .50BMG dope that could be used as a BDC for the Unertl MST-150 scopes that would be made years later in the mid-1990's. When the Corps needed more of these scopes, USO had already taken over the contract for the MST-100/MST-150, and made the 3 prototype MST-150's to show the Corps their capabilities. Instead of spending money on new scopes, the Corps had USO refurbish and modify some of their MST-100 7.62x51mm scopes and turn them into MST-150 .50BMG scopes.
So, the Barrett M82A1 .50BMG rifles were first issued with the 7.62x51 MST-100's, then with .50BMG MST-150's, then finally with 7.62x51 MST-100's that were converted by USO to .50BMG MST-150's. Many people assume (wrongly) that the Gulf War M82A1's were issued with .50BMG MST-150's (either new .50BMG from Unertl or converted 7.62x51 scopes), but we now know that the Marines used 7.62x51 MST-100's during that war.
This is a pretty unique piece of USMC history, and who knows where the other 2 of the 3 scopes are right now. Maybe in collections somewhere? Maybe the Corps kept them? Maybe the CMP sold them? I have no idea.
And for the previous discussion about the USO patent information being engraved on turrets, here is my original& DRMO USMC M8541 SSDS on my M40A6:
The information in this post should be correct, but I'll defer to @Skunk for the final word on anything USO related. He's easily the expert in this area!
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Totally cool piece of gear!!!
I don’t know how many they made exactly or all the specs (until your post) but I knew they competed. Amazing optic!!
Wow!
Sirhr
I don’t know how many they made exactly or all the specs (until your post) but I knew they competed. Amazing optic!!
Wow!
Sirhr
This USO MST-100 that was sold on the CMP auction site back in 2018 fits the theme of this thread:
https://cmpauction.thecmp.org/detail.asp?id=4526&n=USMC-US-Optics-MST-100-Sniper-Telescope-3077
This scope is serial number 3077, which doesn't fit into the USMC 7.62x51mm 1xxx serial number range, the FBI/Navy 2xxx serial number range, and the USMC .50BMG 5xxx serial number range.
Here's photos of the military USO MST-100 serial number 3077, but the scope's serial number really can't be seen due to the thin layer of rattle-can tan paint obscuring it:
https://cmpauction.thecmp.org/detail.asp?id=4526&n=USMC-US-Optics-MST-100-Sniper-Telescope-3077
This scope is serial number 3077, which doesn't fit into the USMC 7.62x51mm 1xxx serial number range, the FBI/Navy 2xxx serial number range, and the USMC .50BMG 5xxx serial number range.
Here's photos of the military USO MST-100 serial number 3077, but the scope's serial number really can't be seen due to the thin layer of rattle-can tan paint obscuring it:
2002 serial number. ST-10, fixed 10X44mm with a custom BDC 1/4moa elevation knob.
Probably has a standard mildot reticle. It’s not lit.
Probably has a standard mildot reticle. It’s not lit.
The CMP sold two of the USO 3xxx series scopes. The other was 3123.
Those two scopes, plus USO 3449 that has been posted here before, are the only three with USMC ownership that I have seen.
I had understood that when USO received a scope from the USMC that could not be repaired, they were authorized to replace it with a USO scope.
I appreciate the updated information! Seeing your username, I assume that you work at the CMP and probably have some inside information on these scopes. Were these 3 the only USO scopes that the CMP received from the Corps? Did the CMP ever receive MST-100's with Unertl mounts on them, or just the Badger rings? I'm sure that a bunch of us on here have many questions to ask, if you have access to CMP records. Thanks in advance, hopefully we can get some more information from the CMP!
Negative, that is just the username I adopted on the CMP forum in 2009. They had changed the forum software and I couldn't reuse the username I had used for the prior 10 years.
I have asked about a list of Unertl serial numbers a couple times but haven't had any success. I have just been tracking the serial numbers and ranges that have been auctioned. It's possible that others have been sold or been received. I always expected to see some totally unserviceable parts scopes, but based on a few details, I think they have had some commercially rebuilt.
I have asked about a list of Unertl serial numbers a couple times but haven't had any success. I have just been tracking the serial numbers and ranges that have been auctioned. It's possible that others have been sold or been received. I always expected to see some totally unserviceable parts scopes, but based on a few details, I think they have had some commercially rebuilt.
Regarding Unertl 10x scopes sold at auction by CMP, the advanced auction search will bring up every one the CMP sold best I can tell, select completed auctions..I have been waiting for some industrious collector to build such a data base...........in the past I have been contacted by users wanting to purchase specific serial number Unertl 10xs which I previously won at auction. First time I was contacted via the CMP auction system by another bidder I was surprised, don't know if that function still works...
If anyone knows where Unertl USMC SNIPER serial 1114 is, I’d like to have it. It was on M40A1 serial 224313 which I used to pull from the armory and shoot with at Camp Pendleton.
Yes, I used that search function to save the numbers into a word file. One caution is that there are a few auctions where they failed to put Unertl in the title, so if you search by Telescope, you get a more complete list (but have to cull out the M84's etc.). Also, there are some where they did not include the scope serial number in the title, so you need to open the actual auction to record the numbers. If you want to save each description and the pictures, there is no way to do it other than an auction at a time.
The CMP does dump their old auctions periodically when they do software updates, so now is the time to capture the information.
I snagged it with a minimum bid. Buy it now was def. overpriced, but noone else bid and I got it for a decent price.
It's definitely a neat early one. There's some issue with the turret knobs. They are either bent or have warped. So have a 'wobble' on them. I'll get a vernier on it. Glass is great. Nice set of Badger-type rings, but not Badger, I don't think. The reticle is a dot (might be a football-dot. The 'dots' sure look elongated with careful scrutiny. I thought that was a USMC thing. ) Reticle also has ranging stadia. And fitted with a nice compensating knob for 175gr. M118, I assume. Someone knew what they wanted when they ordered this!
I'll write USO and see what they have on it. They are always great about looking up the old files!
Thanks for the lead. I have a really nice LWRC .308 match AR-10 that this is going on. Be perfect for it!
Cheers, Sirhr
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Do both knobs wobble when you turn them?
If/when you remove the adjustment/float screw in each knob, the knob cover (marked portion with script) will come off the brass knob armature. Those are pretty stout and I would be exceedingly surprised if one or both of them are bent.
The knob covers are probably just on there a little cockeyed and not seated properly on the tapered portion of the brass armature.
If/when you remove the adjustment/float screw in each knob, the knob cover (marked portion with script) will come off the brass knob armature. Those are pretty stout and I would be exceedingly surprised if one or both of them are bent.
The knob covers are probably just on there a little cockeyed and not seated properly on the tapered portion of the brass armature.
Congrats, that's a cool scope! The 02 portion of the serial number is the year it was produced, so a nice old one! Don't you have a USO SN-9 too? I'd love to find one of those scopes with the highest magnification and the 80mm objective lens, or whatever it was. USO used to make some really awesome stuff, I just wish I had bought some of their scopes long ago.
Yes, both have a wobble. I jus t didn’t get time yesterday to pull the screws and see if there is a seating problem or if the knobs are bents/warped. Almost certainly the axle/shaft that they bolt to is straight. It feels perfect.
I’ll explore tonite and post findings! I suspect you are right that it’s a seating issue.
More to follow!
Cheers!
Sirhr
Ps package inbound!
Well, good news and bad news....
The knobs aren't warped. That's the good news. They are totally true. great shape. Measure out to tenths.
The bad news is that the brass erector posts are both bent. They have a wobble in them. Must be that someone used this scope to replicate the "We parked a HMMWV on it" test. Because both of the brass posts (arrows) wobble.
I also tested them by putting the knobs on 'loosely' so they would turn on the tapers. They were true. And removed the O-rings to see if they were causing hang-ups. Nope. Rings turned smoothly until tightened on the brass erector posts.
This was my final test. Needed to create a 'knob' with no skirt. So screwed the top washers on the brass piece. When I rotated, they wobbled like plates on a stick during a juggling act. Bummer!
But I e-mailed the mother ship and I'll send it in and have it fixed up. Probably get a couple of knob covers and a shade while I'm at it. And Clean/lube. It's a super cool scope so worth restoring right and I don't do optics!
Cheers and... Oh well! Whatsoever is rightly-done and all that...
Sirhr
The knobs aren't warped. That's the good news. They are totally true. great shape. Measure out to tenths.
The bad news is that the brass erector posts are both bent. They have a wobble in them. Must be that someone used this scope to replicate the "We parked a HMMWV on it" test. Because both of the brass posts (arrows) wobble.
I also tested them by putting the knobs on 'loosely' so they would turn on the tapers. They were true. And removed the O-rings to see if they were causing hang-ups. Nope. Rings turned smoothly until tightened on the brass erector posts.
This was my final test. Needed to create a 'knob' with no skirt. So screwed the top washers on the brass piece. When I rotated, they wobbled like plates on a stick during a juggling act. Bummer!
But I e-mailed the mother ship and I'll send it in and have it fixed up. Probably get a couple of knob covers and a shade while I'm at it. And Clean/lube. It's a super cool scope so worth restoring right and I don't do optics!
Cheers and... Oh well! Whatsoever is rightly-done and all that...
Sirhr
I’ve got a shade/ARD I’ll send you, so don’t buy one. It’ll even be the correct vintage!
Bummer about the knobs. They would be pretty simple to replicate if USO says they can’t/won’t do it. And, I’m still in regular contact with JBW3 if it comes to that.
Bummer about the knobs. They would be pretty simple to replicate if USO says they can’t/won’t do it. And, I’m still in regular contact with JBW3 if it comes to that.
Thanks, across the board! If I have to, I can probably machine something up or at least true them. But reassembling and re-filling with Nitrogen may take at trip to NC. From what I understand, they are still capable of servicing the 'old stuff.' Hopefully!
And worst case, the 'wobble' doesn't seem to affect the tracking. It's just annoying to see the base of the knob wobble!
Cheers,
Sirhr
Honestly, I think you’d be better off sending it to Texas for JBW3 to work on… In any event, I’m sure we can find a solution.
I actually didn't know he was still working on scopes! After the sale, I sort of lost touch! Let's see what the mothership says. But I am glad to send it to III! Hope he is doing well!
Cheers!
Cheers!
I had 224343 on the east coast mid 90s. I need to pull out the boxes with my old patrol logs/kill sheets to get my scope number off of it. I might even have some of my armory custody cards stashed away, I know I ran off with one set of cards, just can't remember which rifle I kept them from or if I even still have them or not after 10 moves since.
Think these will do? I don’t exactly remember if these are for a 44mm ERGO objective (like what you have) or a T-Pal, but I want to say the thread pitch/shades were the same. They show some use, but if you want them they’re yours.
I have enough USO's that I know I have stuff they'll fit!!! Probably including ST10 Awesome!
Cheers!
Cheers!
I'd love to see any information you have on rifle 224343! Your logs, notes, armory cards, etc. definitely deserve their own thread on that topic. Would you be willing to post a new thread with this information? I have some info that I can post there as well, and we won't have to derail this awesome thread. I also have rifle 224202, which is extremely close to the 2243xx rifles that you guys used!
I can dig through some shit soon and post it up. Going to be a bit redacted though, we didn’t even know what “PII” was back then and threw SSNs on everything.
And definitely agree I don’t want to derail this thread either. Back with the USO prototype discussion.
And definitely agree I don’t want to derail this thread either. Back with the USO prototype discussion.
Don’t worry about a thread derail. This was all USMC Sniper related anyway, and all of us crayon-eaters love good pics. Put them here, in their own thread, or wherever. 
I have a Spreadsheet of all of the CMP Issued Unertls and the (2)? CMP USO's. The totals I have are as follows: 614 total scopes; 62 converted to .50 Cal; 93 with 5XXX serial numbers. This is a working list.... If anybody is interested shoot me a PM. I can't post it here for some reason...
Was able to post a PDF version. Orange are scopes that were converted to .50 Cal; yellow are 5XXX series scopes and Green are non CMP scopes. I can update the list with names if someone has them but not sure if folks would want that info posted.
...and last edit, Please forgive me for hijacking this thread...let me know if I need to relocate it.
Was able to post a PDF version. Orange are scopes that were converted to .50 Cal; yellow are 5XXX series scopes and Green are non CMP scopes. I can update the list with names if someone has them but not sure if folks would want that info posted.
...and last edit, Please forgive me for hijacking this thread...let me know if I need to relocate it.
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No sweat. I'm still working on it, trying to add all of the cmp user Id's to the list. If someone has a cross-reference of cmp users to user ID we could probably locate most of the cmp Inertl and USO scopes... I have an excel copy of this. Let me know if anybody wants a copy. Feel free to send me updates and I can update the master list. Thanks
Excellent work, thank you for compiling the list! I had started planning a format but hadn't done it yet.. The only format differences I had planned were columns for ".50 cal. conversion" and "date of auction" (so I could sort by those). I didn't have the number of bids and CMP user #.
I'll compare your numbers to my informal list and see if there are any differences.
Thanks.
Date of auction would be nice but the info didn't transfer over in my cut and paste and will have to be entered manually. I am currently inputting the cmp user id's manually so it takes a minute. Will send this out tomorrow after the user Id's are updated. Fortunately 1 person bought almost 100 scopes so I'll have those assigned to him...lol
