USPS could go belly up.

Maggot

"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood"
Supporter
Full Member
Minuteman
Supporter
  • Jul 27, 2007
    26,598
    31,086
    Virginia
    The U.S. Postal Service is projected to lose $11 billion this year, and it's running out of cash.

    Barring a bailout or massive restructuring, the Postal Service says, the organization may stop operating early next year.

    That's a frightening thought. But it's also one designed to get everyone's attention. And now the question will be whether anyone with the power to do anything about it actually does something intelligent.

    Approaching this problem intelligently starts with analyzing what's wrong with the USPS. And the answer, according to the New York Times, is twofold:

    The volume of physical mail has dropped more than 20% in the last five years and is projected to keep on dropping, thanks to vastly more efficient information delivery via the Internet
    The US Postal Service's compensation and benefits contracts with its employees leave it unable to reduce its costs fast enough
    The current situation of the organization is obviously a major problem, not just for the Postal Service, but for the country. The U.S. Postal Service employs 653,000 people, and with the national unemployment rate already running over 9%, the country can't afford to lose more jobs. Thanks to the Postal Service's generous benefits and pensions, moreover, these are "good" jobs--ones that pay employees far better than they might get from private organizations.

    But these jobs are one reason the U.S. Postal Service's labor costs are 80% of its total expenses, versus an average of 53% and 35% for private competitors like UPS and FedEx, respectively. And they're also the reason that the only way out of the U.S. Postal Service's current mess is to vastly restructure its operations, reducing the organization's workforce and labor costs.

    If the U.S. Postal Service were a private company, the solution here would be simple (if painful). The organization would file for bankruptcy and be completely restructured. Many services and jobs would be changed or eliminated, and the organization would be "right-sized" for the new reality, just the way car companies like General Motors were three years ago.

    This would obviously be a very painful process, especially for those work for the USPS. Over the long haul, however, it would be healthy, not just for the organization but for the broader economy. Devoting so much productive capacity to delivering pieces of paper when technology is making much of this unnecessary is not helpful for the economy long-term. It just preserves an anachronistic tradition. Just as the economy transitioned away from farming to industry, the economy will eventually transition away from the physical delivery of mail. This transition will take time, but it will happen, and the economy will eventually be stronger for it.

    Because the USPS is a government entity, however--and because the US economy is in such a fragile state--a wholesale restructuring of the USPS will probably be avoided at all costs. Instead, we'll probably get half-measures that just postpone the day of reckoning and kick the can down the road.
     
    Re: USPS could go belly up.

    Agreed, I used to be a supervisor and I was amazed at what the people that worked in the plant thought what hard work was. In general, postal employees live in a fantasy world of union corruption and real world denial.
    Actually, I feel the Gov't keeps it going because its essentially a form of sustained welfare. More than a lot of the people that work for the USPS would in no way be able to get or keep a job in the "real world." They would live on welfare and be on the gov't's teet anyway, so why not just have these people make a decent living and pretend that the work they is justified. Its a friggin joke.
     
    Re: USPS could go belly up.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Should have failed decades ago, it's a broken model. Needs to fail so a private entity can take it's place. </div></div>

    That sounds great in theory but if what we would be left with is something that resembles the "service" dished out by Fedex and UPS we're all fucked. USPS has to be broke, I can ship a set of rings across the country in three days for $5. Fedex or UPS would take a week and charge $15 with a high likelihood of the delivery being mysteriously delayed.
     
    Re: USPS could go belly up.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Phylodog</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Should have failed decades ago, it's a broken model. Needs to fail so a private entity can take it's place. </div></div>

    That sounds great in theory but if what we would be left with is something that resembles the "service" dished out by Fedex and UPS we're all fucked. USPS has to be broke, I can ship a set of rings across the country in three days for $5. Fedex or UPS would take a week and charge $15 with a high likelihood of the delivery being mysteriously delayed. </div></div>

    I agree but I think the market forces would eventually fix it up. Right now Fedex and UPS play second fiddle to the USPS and if the USPS were to enter the arena as a competitor instead of dominating via subsidies (taxpayers propping it up) we might just see an over-all improvement in service/$$.
     
    Re: USPS could go belly up.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Phylodog</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Should have failed decades ago, it's a broken model. Needs to fail so a private entity can take it's place. </div></div>

    That sounds great in theory but if what we would be left with is something that resembles the "service" dished out by Fedex and UPS we're all fucked. USPS has to be broke, I can ship a set of rings across the country in three days for $5. Fedex or UPS would take a week and charge $15 with a high likelihood of the delivery being mysteriously delayed. </div></div>

    Yeah you can ship for $5 but it costs USPS $10 to do it. That's the problem.

    They got into parcels to get market share from UPS and FEDEX but they lose money at it.

    I get that Fed Ex and UPS aren't perfect but compared to USPS? Come on, to say they were similar services would be very kind to USPS.
    Maybe its because I'm in a heavily populated area. I'd imagine the USPS service in smaller town would be more dedicated to the community, but I have no basis for that... just hoping they don't suck everywhere.
     
    Re: USPS could go belly up.

    Any given day you'll find a ton of so of undelivered mail in a dumpster in the Chicago area...

    I'm sure the area has a lot to do with it though. If I want to actually get it, I go Fed Ex or UPS.
     
    Re: USPS could go belly up.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Inogame</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any given day you'll find a ton of so of undelivered mail in a dumpster in the Chicago area...</div></div>

    Think of the possibilities...
     
    Re: USPS could go belly up.

    I believe that all of the govt/private style "relationships" are flawed. The fannie mae/freddie mac almost got us. I recall one USPO example that made some small news when they bought a PostMasters house for 1 million bucks so they could move him. Raising the price of a stamp to mask the problems appears to have run out of daylight. Regards
     
    Re: USPS could go belly up.

    Let the free market work this out.
    At the very least USPS can deliver 2 days a week. That would be fine with me. All I ever get is junk mail and political mailings. Every bill etc. I have is done online now anyways.
     
    Re: USPS could go belly up.

    All the times I have done business on the Hide I have used USPS,and most of the time those members I have done business with have done the same.

    No complaints at all on USPS.

    You pay, and they do deliver.

    BTW Hurricane Irene was here, and the mail still came.
     
    Re: USPS could go belly up.

    I send out alot of packages daily with my business and all of them go out usps. 5-9$ for 2-3 day priority mail is a DEAL compared to fedex/usps. Sure sometimes packages come destroyed, but thats the same as any other carrier. If you are worried about it getting lost or damaged, buy some insurance(relatively cheap) and you will get the package or they will pay you the $$ its worth. Win Win situation really.
     
    Re: USPS could go belly up.

    I have no problems with USPS. About 98% of all the shipping I do is with USPS. Service to dollars spent is heavily in our favor. I live in a very rural town, and the delivery is still rather quick compared to other means of shipping.

    I would hate to see it go... but that is business.

    DK
     
    Re: USPS could go belly up.

    It's a simple solution. Let the USPS go through what is called an A-76 study. That's a normal process where the Government requires an activity to go head to head with private industry. The USPS would be required to submit a bid/proposal to keep the work, but they would be evaluated against bid/proposals submitted by private industry. I have never seen a Government activity bid, beat out a bid from private industry, except when the Government steps in and says for some silly political reason that the work must stay with the Government.

    IMHO the Government should be involved with running some services for the public, buy mail delivery is simply not one of these services. The mail system should be able to turn a profit, or at least break even. If the Government mail system cannot meet this standard business model, then it is time to turn it over to private industry. The taxpayer (you and me) should not have to subsidize mail delivery. Just my .02 cents...
    cool.gif
     
    Re: USPS could go belly up.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: timelinex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I send out alot of packages daily with my business and all of them go out usps. 5-9$ for 2-3 day priority mail is a DEAL compared to fedex/usps. Sure sometimes packages come destroyed, but thats the same as any other carrier. If you are worried about it getting lost or damaged, buy some insurance(relatively cheap) and you will get the package or they will pay you the $$ its worth. Win Win situation really. </div></div>

    its definitely not win win, when you have tax payers subsidizing their billions of losses per year. that 5-9$ package is probably really costing 25$.
     
    Re: USPS could go belly up.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: idahoshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think the library system needs to go to. The cloud could solve that problem. </div></div>

    I'm a hardcore libertarian but that is one of the few things, I don't mind paying for however, I would loose the public access computers that only draw in the weirdos.
     
    Re: USPS could go belly up.

    More threats and scare tactics! The post office is as likely to "go out of business" as the IRS! The post office came too life through the Constitution. funded through the Constitution. and i believe would take a Constitutional amendment to fail! But Its got everybody worried as it is intended too!
     
    Re: USPS could go belly up.

    We keep hearing "increase postage", so they keep increasing "First Class" stamp rates.

    "Junk mail" is delivered for $0.16! At least that's what a postmark I saw last week indicated. Let them foot the bill for a while.

    Kevin
     
    Re: USPS could go belly up.

    I'm all for the USPS desolving and allowing the free market solutions and private carriers to fill the void. I don't like monopolies, especially tax subsidized government monopolies.

    A postage stamp may seem cheap. What is it, 44 cents? How does a business model work where I pay the same postage to mail a letter down the street or across the country. Its cheap, but as its subsidized, the costs are hidden and i'm paying for it when I don't use it.



    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7.62willdo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">More threats and scare tactics! The post office is as likely to "go out of business" as the IRS! The post office came too life through the Constitution. funded through the Constitution. and i believe would take a Constitutional amendment to fail! But Its got everybody worried as it is intended too!
    </div></div>

    With all due respect, just because a Constitution clause permits the government to establish post offices, doesn't mean that it has to. The Constitution also allows the Congress to raise taxes, go into debt, and declare wars, but it doesn't mean its always a good idea.

    The USPS has become bloated, inefficient, and is no longer needed.
     
    Re: USPS could go belly up.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7.62willdo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would love to debate this more but i believe we are treading on dangerous grounds
    "NO POLITICAL POSTS" and trust me ban camp is no fun:)
    so i'm out! </div></div>

    <span style="font-size: 20pt"> <span style="color: #CC0000">? </span> </span>
     
    Re: USPS could go belly up.

    Seriously?

    The USPS had a truck running through a street in water 3 feet deep right in the middle of Hurricane mother-fucking Irene (ask me how I know...I was across the street), and there are people who want to get rid of it in favor of UPS or Fedex (that can't even get some Hide members packages from Point A to Point B without snatching it, or attempting to)?

    Think UPS or Fedex delivers during a hurricane? Nope!

    So what is the better value for me when I need to ship a package? A postal service that doesn't give a fuck about a storm that caused evacuations up and down the Eastern CONUS, or two carriers that cost 5 times more and can fuck up something as simple as delivering a letter?

    It may be your dime, but I just saved a dollar.
     
    Re: USPS could go belly up.

    The USPS is the second leading employer in the country behing WalMart. I think they'll get the "too big to fail" treatment. Although, I'd prefer bankruptcy reorginazation, dissolve the union, and make it a more effecient operation. Fewer chiefs and more indians.
     
    Re: USPS could go belly up.

    This is the kind of silly horse shit I see from Fedex and UPS regularly.

    Date/Time Activity Location Details
    Jul 20, 2011 1:41 PM Delivered INDIANAPOLIS, IN Left at front door
    Jul 20, 2011 12:06 PM On FedEx vehicle for delivery INDIANAPOLIS, IN
    <span style="font-weight: bold">Jul 19, 2011 7:07 PM At local FedEx facility INDIANAPOLIS, IN Package not due for delivery
    Jul 19, 2011 6:42 AM On FedEx vehicle for delivery INDIANAPOLIS, IN
    Jul 18, 2011 7:24 PM At local FedEx facility INDIANAPOLIS, IN Package not due for delivery
    Jul 18, 2011 7:30 AM On FedEx vehicle for delivery INDIANAPOLIS, IN</span>
    Jul 18, 2011 6:30 AM At local FedEx facility INDIANAPOLIS, IN
    Jul 18, 2011 3:35 AM Departed FedEx location INDIANAPOLIS, IN
    Jul 17, 2011 6:25 PM Arrived at FedEx location INDIANAPOLIS, IN
    Jul 17, 2011 4:20 PM Departed FedEx location MEMPHIS, TN
    Jul 16, 2011 10:17 AM Arrived at FedEx location MEMPHIS, TN
    Jul 15, 2011 11:58 PM At local FedEx facility EAST BOSTON, MA
    Jul 15, 2011 9:40 PM Left FedEx origin facility SOUTH BOSTON, MA
    Jul 15, 2011 5:06 PM Picked up SOUTH BOSTON, MA
    Jul 15, 2011 10:30 AM Shipment information sent to FedEx

    They put a package of mine on the truck two times to drive it around the city all day with no intentions of delivering it. I called and asked WTF and was told that they put it on the truck in the event the driver had time to deliver it earlier than it was supposed to be. I know from prior experience that Fedex absolutely will not deliver a package before it is scheduled to be delivered. If they're not going to deliver it, why not let it sit at the hub rather than juggling the damned thing around for three days trying to lose it. UPS does the same kind of silly shit.

    USPS delivers shit as soon as possible. They aren't without fault as I had an Atlas bipod which was shipped to me from PA go missing for two weeks. It actually arrived the same day that I got my money back from the seller. Shit happens for sure but out of the hundreds of shipments I've made and received over the past 8 years the vast majority of complaints have been with UPS and Fedex.
     
    Re: USPS could go belly up.

    A) 90% or or more of my mail is junk mail. That stuff could be a goldmine if the USPS upped the rates for bulk advertising delivery. There's absolutely no reason the USPS couldn't do something along those lines and do a lot better than break even.

    B) The same thing applies to slick magazines, which are largely advertising. All those fluff "Me, me, wonderful me" vanity mags would have to do a bit more to justify the resources they consume.

    I know a little bit about this, since I used run and print the mailbag tags every Sunday night for <span style="font-style: italic">Newsweek</span> magazine. The number of tags each week easily exceeded 20,000.

    C) If both of these income sources were to disappear, so would a whole bunch of the unprofitable make-work that bogs the system down; and maybe, just maybe, first class service could then reflect and justify the ridiculously huge price increases the individual postal patron has had to support.

    D) If Fedex and UPS won't deliver under conditions that would prompt a sane carrier to stop and wait it out, maybe they have a valid point.

    Greg
     
    Re: USPS could go belly up.

    I personally wouldn't miss USPS if it did go belly-up. 99% of my USPS is junk mail or catalogs. (gotta love Victoria Secret and Midway) All my bills are received / paid electronically. I'm sure that UPS or FedEx could easily take over for USPS. Government just can't run a business as efficiently as a private company, the motive isn't in the culture.

    That being said, I recognize the need for the service. My parents still rely on USPS for everything.
     
    Re: USPS could go belly up.

    I sent me FN SPR U.P.S to Mr Allen at CDI to have him install his bottom metal,he has now sent the rifle back too me through U.S.P.S with a tracking number that they never EVER update ,so I dont have a clue as to when my $3000.00 rifle is going to be left on my doorstep,sorry guys but in my opinon U.S.P.S is a pile of shit,and when they go under good riddance!
     
    Re: USPS could go belly up.

    Pray that USPS stays in business...I work part-time nights (M-F) at a UPS hub and I can tell you this:

    If you value anything you ship, do NOT send UPS!
    Does anyone remember the old American Tourister luggage test commercial from the 70's?


    <object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/8C-e96m4730"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/8C-e96m4730" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>


    Yeah, USPS tracking sucks. No question.
    But if you have the unfortunate privilege of trying to file a claim with Fed Ex or UPS...

     
    Re: USPS could go belly up.

    USPS has improved their tracking. It's still not where it needs to be but it is better than it was. Used to be the only time they ever updated it was after a package had been delivered. I checked yesterday on a package which showed it was on the truck for delivery.
     
    Re: USPS could go belly up.

    I live in a pretty rural area, ups and fedex SUCK where I live. They cant find the address (gps doesnt work here, and obviously their common sense doesnt either). The PO here is amazing. I have had more stuff lost/not delivered thanks to fedex and ups, not once have I not had a package come on time due to usps. Their tracking sucks yes.

    I dont think the govt should have its hand in business other than libraries and the usps. The usps should to deliveries mwf only, but still transport things across country on the schedule they do now. It deffinelty needs to be restructured and all that junk mail needs to cost the companies mailing it A LOT more. Fire all the union employees or cut their wages so it can be economical. I think we should keep usps, but it defenitly needs a serious restructoring.
     
    Re: USPS could go belly up.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArmaHeavy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seriously?

    The USPS had a truck running through a street in water 3 feet deep right in the middle of Hurricane mother-fucking Irene (ask me how I know...I was across the street), and there are people who want to get rid of it in favor of UPS or Fedex (that can't even get some Hide members packages from Point A to Point B without snatching it, or attempting to)?

    Think UPS or Fedex delivers during a hurricane? Nope!</div></div>

    Really? In the middle of a hurricane, flooding, power outages, storm cleanup, the last thing I want are postal carriers unnecessarily risking their lives to deliver my bills and junk mail. If it is a package, I would have more important things to worry about.
     
    Re: USPS could go belly up.

    i for one have always been a fan of the PO and have had very little problems over the years. actually one of the 2,maybe 3 things government can actually do right. everything e-mail now? heard of an EMP? possibility is real. been in a natural disaster? flood,hurricane etc? PO is back up way before internet which in most places is phone co dependent. again small town america seems about to get the short end with closures (around here)in smallest venues. i am a for sure a capitalist,but,some things that need doing can't be done for a profit. just wait til the whole health care thiing goes if you doubt that. we lose money on seal team 6 also. but,i think we desperatly need them.
     
    Re: USPS could go belly up.

    Rural America is getting ready to take it in the shorts and these are the places that need it the most. A PO north of me, is getting the axe, it takes in less than 6k a year. Do I think it should be open 6 days a week, NO. Do I think that it should be open 2, for deliveries, stamps etc YES. I guarantee they arent going to cut the big PO in major urban areas where fed ex and ups are less likely to fuck up. But in rural American fedex and ups is a cluster fuck, they dont deliver on time, get lost, dont show up because its to late in the day, or just plane dick the dog and are worthless.

    I am NO fan of anything govt run except usps and the military. I say ONE PO in each town or one to cover a 50 mile radius if the their is no town big enough to support one.
     
    Re: USPS could go belly up.

    Fedex and UPS are fucked up in the urban areas as well.

    I had a money order shipped to me via Fedex overnight yesterday. It was supposed to be delivered by 3pm this afternoon. It isn't here and the tracking shows nothing after it was picked up yesterday. I'll take USPS any day of the week.
     
    Re: USPS could go belly up.

    Ubet, it's the same in Alaska. UPS and Fedex deliver to the USPS, who then delivers oyur package. They do it that way because they can't do it on their own. I never appreciated USPS until I moved here. Do I think subsidizing the mail is efficient? No, but for most rural locations, USPS keeps us alive. If USPS didn't pay the little airlines to deliver mail, the airlines wouldn't fly there. It's a co-dependant system out here and we couldn't live without USPS.
    Furthermore, I think many that take cheap shipping for granted would have a serious wake up call if USPS disappeared. And it would literally kill most internet-based businesses that are already at risk.