Varget vs Power Pro 2000-MR satisfaction question - Switching Yes/No/Doesnt matter?

[pell1203]

I've been using Varget for .308 (175gr SMK) and .223 (69gr SMK) loads for over 5 years now with good results and no complaints. However, recently much has been written regarding Power Pro 2000-MR for both of these cartridge and similar bullet weight combinations and this got me to wondering how many have actually tried both powders and decided to switch based on their test results.

I'd be interesting in seeing your comments regarding both above powders with specific conclusions on which one will become your primary choice, and why?

If you were a prior user of one or the other powder (which one?), will the differences be enough to make you switch from Varget to 2000-MR, or 2000-MR to Varget?

Or, in your opinion, are they so similar that it is ok to just pick one and move on (i. e., doesn't matter)?

 

[DocB]

pell1203,

PP 2000 is cleaner, faster and more consistent with Winchester primers in 308 and .223 with heavies. In the .223 with 69 gr. bullets and shorter barrels, I use VV N-140.

HTH,
DocB

 

[J-ROD]

PP was working great for me until i tried the same load on a warmer day. So not wanting to worry about that or what happens if i wait a little too long after chambering a round in a hot barrel, i switched back to varget.

 

[JGorski]

My favorite powder used to be RE15,(308) it always worked way better than Varget, then I tried 2000MR & CFE, they give me very good accuracy plus more horsepower, 42grs RE15 under 168AMAXs didnt give me the 4.7" group [MENTION=27617]600yd[/MENTION]s like CFE did, Varget could never get close to this @300yds. Plus 2000MR & CFE are cleaner burning.

 

[Bob 964]

For all the reasons discussed above, PowerPro 2000 MR is my powder of choice. I switched from RL-15 and Varget. I don't think you will be disappointed.

 

[J-ROD]

Fwiw, i have never used rl-15 but believe it is a bit slower than varget. I say that because i had originally given up on varget due to it being dirty and poor groups.
It wasn't until later when i tried it again, with higher charges that it started to shine. 47.5gn for berger 168 hybrids, 45.5gn for 185 hybrids.
It now burns very clean (450 rounds on dirty barrel, still holding groups) and gives great accuracy. I have tested the same load in 30F and 90F with magnetospeed and there was ~ zero perceptible difference in MV. I am also now within the same fps node as PP so there's no reason to switch back.
PP gives me almost ~60fps increase in same conditions which does matter at 1K.
As far as the lot changes i hear about, guess i have been lucky, old 1# bottle versus new 8# jug shoots identical.

 

[pell1203]

In summary so far:

Cons:
PP 2000 -> cleaner burning, increased speed
Varget -> better temperature stability

Results:
Switching to PP 2000 = 2
Staying with Varget = 1
Either one, don't care = 1

Are these all the opinions that are out there?

 

[cmh2007]

I found varget to be too finicky in my chamber at the velocities needed to get to 1k, at least behind the 155. My experiences with 2000mr are that only with a MAJOR temperature swing have I seen a velocity change.

 

[Bluesop7]

I have been trying to find a pound of the 2000MR to try out but no luck yet. I've heard nothing but good things about it though. Increased velocity and only slightly more temp sensitive than varget.

 

[Bear24]

I had accuracy on par with my varget loads for 178 HPBT's but nothing that really improved my groups at all. I didn't get any Chrono data with it as I was only looking for better groups and the added velocity would have been a bonus. I then tried PP with some 155g hybrids and ran into extremely flattened primers 100fps lower than my varget load, so I'm sticking with Varget there too.

For 99% of my shooing I will take the temp insensitivity over extra velocity. Here in OK we tend to get some pretty drastic temp swings and I don't like having to worry about it. I am really wanting to get some IMR 8208XBR to try out for the 155g's and see how that does.

 

[Hk996]

I have been load developing with PP for a while now. This powder measures great in the charge master. I am having to load a lot hotter than RL-15, but groups seem tighter that way. So far I have tried 155 scenar, 175 berger, 175 SMK and 178 Hornady bullets. My scenars groups seem best between 49.7-50.0gr (still looking for node). I have mostly been using PMC brass at 2.835" OAL but did a batch with Lapua brass to compare. Primers were mostly CCI, also did some with FED210. My last outing I did have a lot of popped primers though.... I know these loads are hot because on monday I had a perfect impression of a magpul PRS stock on my shoulder. Part of the primer issue is that some of my primer pockets were too lose when I loaded them (now I know what to feel for).

In searching for a load, 155 AMAX between 44.6-45.5gr of RL-15 shot better then all of the others with PP. These were loaded on PMC brass with OAL 2.80" and CCI primer. Not sure how the AMAX will do with PP because nobody has had them in stock for a while.

The gun used is a Les Baer AR-10 with 24" barrel

 

[J-ROD]

Another fwiw, PP gives flattened primers even on low charges, don't let that bother you too much. I never used that as pressure sign but looked for stiff lift and ejector marks. I also looked for a plateau in mv versus charge increase

 

[Fredo0621]

Also, the Power Pro generally gets better groups as the charge weights increase. Its been that way in three different guns that I load for. Plus, I can run it through my LnL AP powder measure and make decent match ammo on my progressive.