Vltor experiences/opinions

[thedude824]

It looks like acquiring the LMT parts will take a while. In the meantime I'm very interested in the Vltor MUR upper and building a complete Vltor rifle. It looks like I'd have to purchase a complete lower receiver, but it includes their A5 system. How would you rate Vltor's products related to Colt, Aero, BCM, etc? I was planning to use an LMT carrier and a JP enhanced 6.5 bolt along with a Ranier Arms 12.5" Ultramatch Mod 2 barrel with pinned gas block.

 

[502Chevelle]

I use Vltor uppers on most of my builds. Solid receivers that are well made. Please stop referring things to Colt. Every time I see that name I throw up in my mouth a little. No need to start a flame war, or derail, but they aren’t the quality company that they were 30 years ago.

 

[Clayman]

It looks like acquiring the LMT parts will take a while. In the meantime I'm very interested in the Vltor MUR upper and building a complete Vltor rifle. It looks like I'd have to purchase a complete lower receiver, but it includes their A5 system. How would you rate Vltor's products related to Colt, Aero, BCM, etc? I was planning to use an LMT carrier and a JP enhanced 6.8 bolt along with a Ranier Arms 12.5" Ultramatch Mod 2 barrel with pinned gas block.

Vltor is very high quality. The A5 system is the best buffer system available imo. I run them in pretty much every AR I have besides my 300 blk with the jp scs.

 

[502Chevelle]

I agree with Clayman. I should have added that in my post. All of my small ARs (not counting my JPs) are Vltor uppers, backed by the Vltor EMod stock and system. It has been as simple as buy it, put it on and it runs very well. While they aren’t tunable like the SCS, they really haven’t needed it. Good stuff.

 

[Clayman]

While they aren’t tunable like the SCS, they really haven’t needed it. Good stuff.

There are 5 buffer weights available though so you can tune that way. A5H2 will be good for most. I have an A5H3 on a rifle that is suppressed without an adjustable gas block because my bolt was unlocking a bit earlier than I wanted.

I also run sprinco green springs with the vltor A5 system.

 

[thedude824]

I use Vltor uppers on most of my builds. Solid receivers that are well made. Please stop referring things to Colt. Every time I see that name I throw up in my mouth a little. No need to start a flame war, or derail, but they aren’t the quality company that they were 30 years ago.

I didnt mean to imply Colt is a good or great system. My first AR was a Colt and it nearly turned me off to ARs for good. I simply included the systems that I currently own.
I appreciate the responses! The vibe I was getting on Vltor was very positive and I was surprised by how affordable their equipment remains. It seems like they could be a very affordable "duty grade" system. Of course, my Colt was the only approved "duty" system for my agency so I suppose "duty grade" can have different interpretations. Can the Vltor lower receiver only be acquired as a complete lower with mil spec lower parts kit? The Vulcan lowers were blems as I understand it

 

[Clayman]

I didnt mean to imply Colt is a good or great system. My first AR was a Colt and it nearly turned me off to ARs for good. I simply included the systems that I currently own.
I appreciate the responses! The vibe I was getting on Vltor was very positive and I was surprised by how affordable their equipment remains. It seems like they could be a very affordable "duty grade" system. Of course, my Colt was the only approved "duty" system for my agency so I suppose "duty grade" can have different interpretations. Can the Vltor lower receiver only be acquired as a complete lower with mil spec lower parts kit? The Vulcan lowers were blems as I understand it

https://www.vltor.com/shop/ar/lower-receivers/vra-r/
https://www.vltor.com/shop/ar/lower-receivers/vra-ra5/

It's available in mil spec and A5.

Actually availability I have no idea. They're probably focusing on oem and components tbh but I don't actually know.

You could give them a call.

It looks like acquiring the LMT parts will take a while. In the meantime I'm very interested in the Vltor MUR upper and building a complete Vltor rifle. It looks like I'd have to purchase a complete lower receiver, but it includes their A5 system. How would you rate Vltor's products related to Colt, Aero, BCM, etc? I was planning to use an LMT carrier and a JP enhanced 6.8 bolt along with a Ranier Arms 12.5" Ultramatch Mod 2 barrel with pinned gas block.

If you are looking for a fantastic builders set I would look at ADM. They have a 8 week lead time but it's high quality, full ambidextrous, great fit and finish. Cerakote options for $150. As a plus they also look great imo.

https://www.admmfg.com/adm-uic-lower-upper-receiverrail-combo

I'd personally complete it with vltors A5 buffer system and then whatever other components you like.

 

[Powder_Burns]

Still waiting for a vltor bren ten.

 

[thedude824]

https://www.vltor.com/shop/ar/lower-receivers/vra-r/
https://www.vltor.com/shop/ar/lower-receivers/vra-ra5/

It's available in mil spec and A5.

Actually availability I have no idea. They're probably focusing on oem and components tbh but I don't actually know.

You could give them a call.




If you are looking for a fantastic builders set I would look at ADM. They have a 8 week lead time but it's high quality, full ambidextrous, great fit and finish. Cerakote options for $150. As a plus they also look great imo.

https://www.admmfg.com/adm-uic-lower-upper-receiverrail-combo

I'd personally complete it with vltors A5 buffer system and then whatever other components you like.

That ADM stuff looks really nice!! Im going to have to consider that. Thank you!

 

[rayrevolver]

The only "issue" with Vltor MUR uppers is that you cannot use a folding 45 degree offset rear BUIS, like Magpul Pro or KAC. The shape of the forward assist means the they just don't fit back on the receiver.

If you want to build something matching with an MUR upper, then another option is finding an older Noveske marked MUR and a Noveske lower.

 

[Steel head]

Their stuff is solid and I’m a big fan of the A5 buffer system.

 

[powdahound76]

+1 for VLTOR. Still have one of their monolithic quad rail uppers

 

[Trigger Monkey]

The only "issue" with Vltor MUR uppers is that you cannot use a folding 45 degree offset rear BUIS, like Magpul Pro or KAC. The shape of the forward assist means the they just don't fit back on the receiver.

If you want to build something matching with an MUR upper, then another option is finding an older Noveske marked MUR and a Noveske lower.

Midwest Industries has a set of offset folding BUIS that will fit the MUR-1a uppers. It's hella close but there is clearance between the receiver and rear sight.

 

[rayrevolver]

Midwest Industries has a set of offset folding BUIS that will fit the MUR-1a uppers. It's hella close but there is clearance between the receiver and rear sight.

Thanks, that is good to know. The other new-ish options are the Griffin offset folding BUIS. Nice rig, I need one of those storage capable gunfighter stocks.

I have a new scope and new 12.5" upper incoming but it does not have a MUR. I was thinking about swapping one in, but then I don't want to deal with the gas block (which is not pinned). I might search around for the Griffin just to get that data point. I wish I would have kept the KAC 600m offsets... expensive though!

 

[Clayman]

+1 for VLTOR. Still have one of their monolithic quad rail uppers

It's stupid heavy but I've always liked mine

 

[powdahound76]

They are.

Mine is short.

So is my VLTOR mono upper….. has a 10.5” barrel.
so not too bad.

A bear to run it after BCM MCMR handguards though….

 

[PBWalsh]

The A5 buffer system should be an absolute buy whenever building a new lower. There is no reason to purchase a standard buffer when the A5 exists (and is in stock).

 

[kriller134]

Yeah I’m a big fan of the a5 system. It really softened the recoil impulse on my mk18. I had to piece mine together at the time using a bcm intermediate tube and the rest is vltor.

 

[Elite_KG]

https://www.vltor.com/shop/ar/lower-receivers/vra-r/
https://www.vltor.com/shop/ar/lower-receivers/vra-ra5/

It's available in mil spec and A5.

Actually availability I have no idea. They're probably focusing on oem and components tbh but I don't actually know.

You could give them a call.




If you are looking for a fantastic builders set I would look at ADM. They have a 8 week lead time but it's high quality, full ambidextrous, great fit and finish. Cerakote options for $150. As a plus they also look great imo.

https://www.admmfg.com/adm-uic-lower-upper-receiverrail-combo

I'd personally complete it with vltors A5 buffer system and then whatever other components you like.

Is that “burnt bronze” cerakote or “midnight bronze” or neither?

Looking at Midnight Bronze for my next color selection.

 

[Clayman]

Is that “burnt bronze” cerakote or “midnight bronze” or neither?

Looking at Midnight Bronze for my next color selection.

Midnight bronze.

 

[thedude824]

After a few days of searching and finding nothing in stock, I contacted Vltor. I believe there was one place that had the MUR w/bolt assist, but I want the MUR w/o bolt assist. Vltor allowed me to order what I wanted on backorder. They expect to have more MUR uppers as well as more lowers going out in 8-15 weeks.
For those with the MUR upper, any issues with handguards? Im really liking the Fortis Rev 2 in a 12" and a Ranier Arms Ultramatch Mod 2M in 12.5" chambered in 6.5 Grendel.

 

[4thandbleek]

The MUR is a helluva good upper regardless what platform you use it on. I have one on an 11.5" SBR and wouldn't trade it out for any upper.

 

[thedude824]

https://www.vltor.com/shop/ar/lower-receivers/vra-r/
https://www.vltor.com/shop/ar/lower-receivers/vra-ra5/

It's available in mil spec and A5.

Actually availability I have no idea. They're probably focusing on oem and components tbh but I don't actually know.

You could give them a call.




If you are looking for a fantastic builders set I would look at ADM. They have a 8 week lead time but it's high quality, full ambidextrous, great fit and finish. Cerakote options for $150. As a plus they also look great imo.

https://www.admmfg.com/adm-uic-lower-upper-receiverrail-combo

I'd personally complete it with vltors A5 buffer system and then whatever other components you like.

Ive spent way too much time drooling over these ambi lowers. Admittedly I haven't done any off hand shooting since I left Law Enforcement almost 7 years, but that bolt catch/release on the right hand side seems like it would be a game changer for me. The BAD levers work, but I really should be shooting off hand as well. Im going to order the ADM UIC lower tomorrow I think.
Does anyone know if there will any issue with the shape of the bolt catch on the left side and the shape of the recessed area on the Vltor MUR??
@Clayman It looks like you have the Forward Control Designs bolt catch and ambi safety on your Vltor. Was there are modification required to give the bolt catch clearance?
I would feel like a total dbag for canceling any part of my order with Vltor so I figure at worst I'll have a brand new extra Vltor stripped lower. I dont see a downside to that.
Can any of you speak to any issues I might have with the ADM ambi lower and Vltor MUR upper?

 

[Leftie]

The MUR uppers are fantastic. I've had very good results with them in the past, and Vltor products are very high quality. If an LMT monolithic upper weren't what I were gravitating towards now, I'd be building another complete upper with a Vltor MUR.

 

[Clayman]

Ive spent way too much time drooling over these ambi lowers. Admittedly I haven't done any off hand shooting since I left Law Enforcement almost 7 years, but that bolt catch/release on the right hand side seems like it would be a game changer for me. The BAD levers work, but I really should be shooting off hand as well. Im going to order the ADM UIC lower tomorrow I think.
Does anyone know if there will any issue with the shape of the bolt catch on the left side and the shape of the recessed area on the Vltor MUR??
@Clayman It looks like you have the Forward Control Designs bolt catch and ambi safety on your Vltor. Was there are modification required to give the bolt catch clearance?
I would feel like a total dbag for canceling any part of my order with Vltor so I figure at worst I'll have a brand new extra Vltor stripped lower. I dont see a downside to that.
Can any of you speak to any issues I might have with the ADM ambi lower and Vltor MUR upper?

There is no issue with clearance on the FCD. They protrude far enough out to not touch the upper.

I also just tested that upper with my Radian lower. No issues either, it sticks out enough for it not to touch.

I don't have an ADM lower and don't know the answer. I'd just give them a call.

 

[thedude824]

There is no issue with clearance on the FCD. They protrude far enough out to not touch the upper.

I also just tested that upper with my Radian lower. No issues either, it sticks out enough for it not to touch.

I don't have an ADM lower and don't know the answer. I'd just give them a call.

Wow.. that Radian bolt catch looks EXACTLY like the ADM one. I thought it was the ADM. Id post a pic if I knew how. Thank you for the response.

 

[Pedro23]

Sorry for a thread revival but just spent a very long time taking a tour of VLTOR facility. Impressive facility and amazing staff. Everyone took time to explain their position and process in creating each part.

They are trying to meet demands across the board. With that being said they will not cut corners and allow QC to suffer just to get more product out.

I have mentioned to them about a full ambi lower but I didn’t press them too hard about it. Will ask again about an ambi lower when I go back there for other work related things.

Everyone there is working hard to provide a quality product that performs and lasts.

 

[MontanaMan]

Vltor uppers are as good as anything made, a little on the heavy side, but stiff.................if that matters to you. My only negative comment would be that they don't generally fit tight enough to any given barrel extension to thermo fit, which is my preferred way to fit a barrel.

I don't care for their lowers & have managed to live thru lot of builds to live w/o their buffer system. But is is fine, just never really felt deprived w/o it...............AGB's do fine for me.

 

[MSTN]

The Vltor MUR was the very first quality upper receiver to be offered separately for sale, almost two decades ago. It may well still be the strongest, since it's forged and reinforced in the right areas.

I agree with the comment above, that barrel extensions are never a snug fit. That is however by design. I prefer a non-milspec tight fit, myself.

The Vltor A5 recoil system is the best thing to happen to AR's, I believe, since the flat top upper.

The designer of the original Vltor A5 recoil system (plus just about every other interesting product Vltor offers) migrated to BCM some years ago as their chief designer. Now, BCM makes their own patented, newer version of the A5 recoil system that they call the MK2 Recoil Mitigation System.

 

[msgriff]

Will this MK2 RMS work on a AR308 large frame in 308W?

Not who you asked, but it will not work. For that length RE with large frames, you use a standard AR-15 carbine buffer, usually a H3. You would also need a different spring. If you wanted to use the MK2 or A5 buffer, which are `~4.2" long, in a large frame, you would need an RE with 8.5" of internal depth. I know of only one manufacturer that make that length of RE.

 

[msgriff]

What's your go to for a AR308?

I run both the AR-15 adjustable carbine (7") and the intermediate (7.75") length RE's. I have not built with the 8.5" yet , but plan on using one soon, It's a very rare set-up.
A5 and MK2 are trademarks, they're generically called intermediate, extended carbine, or Armalite calls it a AR-10 Carbine. Most of the big name manufacturer, like KAC, LMT, Armalite, etc, use that length action/recoil system for their large frames. I mimic from those build specs, but my experience is with a UBR which includes a 7.75" proprietary RE. I feel that the intermediate length action is a better choice when you're running suppressed or with high recoil builds. They typically use H3, sometimes H2, AR-15 carbine buffers (3.25" long). but you have the option of using an H4 or XH buffer if needed. You use the AR-10/308 rifle length spring. Armalite factory and Spike's sell intermediate length complete kits for large frames with everything you need, usually $70-$75. There are some tricks if you wanted to buy individual components.
The AR-15 adjustable carbine RE (7") uses the 308 short carbine buffers (2.5" long). I use the 5.6oz buffers, which are close in weight to the H3. They use 308 carbine springs. I don't have any problems with that length action/recoil system, but I'm not running them suppressed or with high recoil builds. Those complete kits run $55-$60. Buffers under 4.2oz can cause issues with BCG overspeed.
Bottom line, you can't go wrong with the intermediate length action/recoil system and appropriate components. RE lengths listed are approximate inside depths. Sometimes you'll need to adjust the BCG travel with spacers or trimming the buffer bumper. Sorry for the thread slide.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

So the A5/intermediate length buffer systems are about the only thing in small frame guns I haven't messed with. I'm genuinely curious what the benefits are, but when I ask all I get is "they're the best, quit being poor", which is basically what I hear when discussing the JP SCS. Having tried the SCS and deciding it's not the second coming, I'd still like to hear more tangible benefits of the A5 outside of the placebo effects.

 

[tasty_chicken]

Does anybody know if JP makes a SCS that will work for the A5 system? I saw that you can get a regular SCS and use an A5 adapter but that defeats the purpose of having the A5.

 

[n2ishun]

What's your go to for a AR308?

Just plug it in and go...

Kaw Valley Precision AR-10 6pos Mil-Spec Carbine Stock Hardware Kit w/ KVP 5.6oz Buffer

Kaw Valley Precision AR-10 6pos Mil-Spec Carbine Stock Hardware Kit w/ KVP 5.6oz Buffer

www.joeboboutfitters.com

 

[Sigmanx]

It looks like acquiring the LMT parts will take a while. In the meantime I'm very interested in the Vltor MUR upper and building a complete Vltor rifle. It looks like I'd have to purchase a complete lower receiver, but it includes their A5 system. How would you rate Vltor's products related to Colt, Aero, BCM, etc? I was planning to use an LMT carrier and a JP enhanced 6.5 bolt along with a Ranier Arms 12.5" Ultramatch Mod 2 barrel with pinned gas block.

I’ve run into some of the same issues. I was planning on running a Criterion barrel with matched bcg, but they’re 6-8 months out minimum on the barrel I wanted to go with. So now I’m stuck between the Ranier Arms 1:8 16” rifle length gas barrel, the Faxon 416r 5R midlength 16” match barrel, and the SOLGW 16” midlength Combat Grade Barrel.

 

[Sigmanx]

I was looking at that same Rainier 16-in barrel last night on their website. I am super confused about that twist rate.

I have been as well, but they say they got the best accuracy with it. The main thing that keeps it on my list is the fact that it’s a rifle length gas system. Outside of that there other options that I think might do a little better on velocity with a standard 1:10 twist like the Faxon with the 416r stainless barrel with 5R rifling. The nitride on the stainless barrels definitely helps close the gap on Barrel life with carbon steel barrels.

 

[Sigmanx]

Ya, I was looking at that barrel for the same reason and their Match 16". It's an intermediate length.

Ya, it’s not an easy decision honestly. If I had to pick one right now on the spot though I think I’d likely go with the Faxon heavy match due to the other Pro’s that come with their option. Not to mention the size of the gas port is just as important to the barrel as its location. So a properly tuned gas port in a midlength could shoot very similar to a rifle length gas (maybe not 100%, but close).

 

[TheOE800]

So the A5/intermediate length buffer systems are about the only thing in small frame guns I haven't messed with. I'm genuinely curious what the benefits are, but when I ask all I get is "they're the best, quit being poor", which is basically what I hear when discussing the JP SCS. Having tries the SCS and deciding it's not the second coming, I'd still like to hear more tangible benefits of the A5 outside of the placebo effects.

The benefit isn’t the buffer, it’s the spring.

 

[Sigmanx]

I've spent quite a bit of money swapping barrels, drilling ports, and trying BRT gas tubes to figure out the right port size for a 14" mid length AR. I'd like to hear what the right gas port size is for a 308W 16" rifle length gas.

If I knew that I’d probably be making my own barrels.

 

[Sigmanx]

I kinda wish someone sold barrels with .050" has ports and 4 bits sized 70, 75, 80, and 85

I am going to be running the VLTOR RE-10/A5SR receiver extension with a Green rifle spring on mine. Both of those have been ordered. The receiver extension will be here tomorrow.

 

[Obi-WanKannoli]

So the A5/intermediate length buffer systems are about the only thing in small frame guns I haven't messed with. I'm genuinely curious what the benefits are, but when I ask all I get is "they're the best, quit being poor", which is basically what I hear when discussing the JP SCS. Having tries the SCS and deciding it's not the second coming, I'd still like to hear more tangible benefits of the A5 outside of the placebo effects.

In my experience, the added benefit is how dramatically they smooth out the cycling of the weapon. We've all read about the reliability and decreased parts wear arguments...I doubt most of us shoot enough to feel those. The recoil impulse though...night and day.

 

[Sigmanx]

I was looking at the same thing last night. I'm somewhere between just buying an ADM UIC - 10A and building a 16" 308 on an ADM builders kit.

I like ADM. I’m using their Recon 30mm mount for my 16” 5.56 DMR style build.

 

[TheOE800]

Government testing concluded the H6 buffer was the most reliable. There’s some good info on ARFcom about the H6 vs A5 etc.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Not to mention the size of the gas port is just as important to the barrel as its location. So a properly tuned gas port in a midlength could shoot very similar to a rifle length gas (maybe not 100%, but close).

Not in my fairly extensive small frame AR testing. I can't for the life of me get a mid or even intermediate gas system to shoot like a rifle system, and I've done a lot of barrel swapping keeping all other parts the same as well as changing all the parts one at a time looking for a sweet spot.
Mind you, I waste a lot of brainpower and ammo on recoil tuning and I can hand most guys a random selection of my AR's and they'd say they all feel the same while I could tell you which one I was firing with my eyes closed.

You can make any gas port artificially any size you want with AGB's etc. but that only adjusts gas volume. Gas pressure is completely determined by port placement and cannot be changed.

 

[MSTN]

This (Vltor A5 / BCM MK2) recoil system format brings these benefits to the table:

1. You can get rid of the carbine length recoil spring that collapses an inch after a mere few thousand rounds and get the rifle length recoil spring for which the system was originally designed. I've had to change as many carbine recoil springs as gas ring sets in the past. The rifle length recoil spring with far more coils will both last far longer and provide much better service.

2. All the "patented" stuff in both recoil systems is really in the buffer design. There are springs on either side of the buffer weights than reduce both felt recoil and bolt bounce. And they really do that.

The MK2 upgrades over the Vltor A5 are in the design and material quality of the internal springs inside the buffer plus the polymer piece on the muzzle end of the buffer. The MK2 buffer tube also has more detents than its A5 counterpart - but they are not numbered with the MK2 system as they are with the A5 format.

This stuff works.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

@MSTN thanks for the rundown!

 

[346ci]

When I did builds, used Mega receivers when they were a company. Vltor was my next option, good stuff for sure. You could count on them not needing the face cut.

 

[holy cow]

https://www.vltor.com/shop/ar/lower-receivers/vra-r/
https://www.vltor.com/shop/ar/lower-receivers/vra-ra5/

It's available in mil spec and A5.

Actually availability I have no idea. They're probably focusing on oem and components tbh but I don't actually know.

You could give them a call.




If you are looking for a fantastic builders set I would look at ADM. They have a 8 week lead time but it's high quality, full ambidextrous, great fit and finish. Cerakote options for $150. As a plus they also look great imo.

https://www.admmfg.com/adm-uic-lower-upper-receiverrail-combo

I'd personally complete it with vltors A5 buffer system and then whatever other components you like.

I have been looking at these but with a shorter barrel as I have several 16 inch AR rifles. How well does the upper and lower receivers fit?

 

[Clayman]

I have been looking at these but with a shorter barrel as I have several 16 inch AR rifles. How well does the upper and lower receivers fit?

The adm rifles I've handled had a great fit & finish.

 

[Sigmanx]

This (Vltor A5 / BCM MK2) recoil system format brings these benefits to the table:

1. You can get rid of the carbine length recoil spring that collapses an inch after a mere few thousand rounds and get the rifle length recoil spring for which the system was originally designed. I've had to change as many carbine recoil springs as gas ring sets in the past. The rifle length recoil spring with far more coils will both last far longer and provide much better service.

2. All the "patented" stuff in both recoil systems is really in the buffer design. There are springs on either side of the buffer weights than reduce both felt recoil and bolt bounce. And they really do that.

The MK2 upgrades over the Vltor A5 are in the material quality of the internal springs inside the buffer plus the polymer piece on the muzzle end of the buffer. The MK2 buffer tube also has more detents than its A5 counterpart - but they are not numbered with the MK2 system as they are with the A5 format.

The new BCM Mk2 setup is really making me want to spend more money.