Rifle Scopes Vortex PST Gen II Tracking Problems w/ Warne Rings

[cheyennewyo]

I have a Vortex PST Gen II that seems to be inconsistent in terms of tracking. It is currently sitting on a Christensen Arms MPR in Warne two-piece rings (the left and right half ones) that are properly torqued. The scope does not appear to consistently track. Rather than a 0.1 Mil adjustment not moving POI by exactly 0.1 Mil, it seems the scope will sometimes adjust way more than the dialed adjustment or sometimes way less. In other words, if I move from 0.0 to up 1.5, it will only go up 0.7. When I go back to 0.0, it will not necessarily return to zero. When I again dial back to 1.5 from 0.0, it might be on 1.5 or it might be somewhere around 1.1. There doesn't seem to be a lot of consistency or repeatability.

Anyway, I have heard a few times that Vortex isn't a fan of Warne rings claiming they clamp too tight. I can't seem to find any official comments from Vortex though. I am going to use another brand of rings and see if that fixes the problem. However, I have used Warne rings in the past on other scopes without any problems, so I am skeptical about the scope. Ultimately, I am sending the scope back to Vortex, but I am curious if anyone else has had problems with the PST scopes and Warne ring combo or if you have seen any official comment from Vortex about Warne.

 

[Rob01]

Post a pic of your set up

 

[smoothy8500]

More than likely it was a random failure of the turret/erector assembly. There has been anecdotal evidence (internet postings) that rings too close to the turret can deform the tube slightly if maxed out torque is applied. If you are positive that your torque was correct, then it was probably just the scope warranty issue.

 

[Rob01]

This was posted at AR15.com by Vortex a couple years ago but feel free to call them and ask them directly about any issues. As mentioned above the over torque and placement can be issues and why I asked to see a pic of your set up.

"Vertically split rings are not necessarily bad. There certainly can be bad rings that happen to be vertically split, but it's not absolutely because they are vertically split (i.e. - getting quality made rings is of first and foremost importance). In our experience, though, it would be incorrect to say that vertically split rings are no different that horizontally split rings. Generally speaking, with horizontally split rings you simply level the scope in the bottom half, begin to torque down the top half while maintaining level, torque using a torque wrench in an alternating fashion like you'd do lug nuts on a wheel and you're done.

Their vertically split counterparts, however, need to be tightened a bit differently. Rather than tightening in an alternating pattern and going for an "Even ring gap" where the gaps between the two halves on either side are evenly spaced, you actually want to close one of the sides completely prior to even beginning to tighten the other side. Take our Pro rings for example - a fine ring made by Warne who is well known for producing quality rings. There's nothing wrong with them, but we've seen issues when people try to tighten them like a horizontal ring - even at proper torque spec, the scope slips or there is an impingement on the tube that causes issues with zeroing or tracking. In nearly all these cases, simply un-mounting the optic and re-mounting, torquing the top two screws on each ring down *first* to 18 inch pounds before even beginning to tighten the bottom screws, then moving to the bottoms to torque to 16 inch pounds solves to problem completely. On our ADM mounts of old which were vertically split, it was the bottom two that needed to be torqued first, and this also caused a number of issues for people who were tightening improperly (Hence the reason we switched to horizontally split in the newest and most current version)

And as a few others have noted, don't use loc-tite on the screws that clamp the rings around the scope tube on any type of ring - it will lubricate the threads and your torque wrench will cam over at what it "Thinks" is 16-18 inch pounds, for example, but really the screws have tightened as much as 20% beyond that, which, depending on the application, could begin to cause issues with any scope. We've been mounting and using scopes with rings torqued with zero loc-tite for years in the harshest conditions on the harshest of rifles without any issue whatsoever. If that weren't the case, we wouldn't still be recommending against it to this day.

In short - Vertically split rings can be fine, just don't try to tighten them like a horizontally split ring."

 

[cheyennewyo]

This was posted at AR15.com by Vortex a couple years ago but feel free to call them and ask them directly about any issues. As mentioned above the over torque and placement can be issues and why I asked to see a pic of your set up.

"Vertically split rings are not necessarily bad. There certainly can be bad rings that happen to be vertically split, but it's not absolutely because they are vertically split (i.e. - getting quality made rings is of first and foremost importance). In our experience, though, it would be incorrect to say that vertically split rings are no different that horizontally split rings. Generally speaking, with horizontally split rings you simply level the scope in the bottom half, begin to torque down the top half while maintaining level, torque using a torque wrench in an alternating fashion like you'd do lug nuts on a wheel and you're done.

Their vertically split counterparts, however, need to be tightened a bit differently. Rather than tightening in an alternating pattern and going for an "Even ring gap" where the gaps between the two halves on either side are evenly spaced, you actually want to close one of the sides completely prior to even beginning to tighten the other side. Take our Pro rings for example - a fine ring made by Warne who is well known for producing quality rings. There's nothing wrong with them, but we've seen issues when people try to tighten them like a horizontal ring - even at proper torque spec, the scope slips or there is an impingement on the tube that causes issues with zeroing or tracking. In nearly all these cases, simply un-mounting the optic and re-mounting, torquing the top two screws on each ring down *first* to 18 inch pounds before even beginning to tighten the bottom screws, then moving to the bottoms to torque to 16 inch pounds solves to problem completely. On our ADM mounts of old which were vertically split, it was the bottom two that needed to be torqued first, and this also caused a number of issues for people who were tightening improperly (Hence the reason we switched to horizontally split in the newest and most current version)

And as a few others have noted, don't use loc-tite on the screws that clamp the rings around the scope tube on any type of ring - it will lubricate the threads and your torque wrench will cam over at what it "Thinks" is 16-18 inch pounds, for example, but really the screws have tightened as much as 20% beyond that, which, depending on the application, could begin to cause issues with any scope. We've been mounting and using scopes with rings torqued with zero loc-tite for years in the harshest conditions on the harshest of rifles without any issue whatsoever. If that weren't the case, we wouldn't still be recommending against it to this day.

In short - Vertically split rings can be fine, just don't try to tighten them like a horizontally split ring."

Thanks for the response. I don't usually buy Warne rings as I prefer one-piece mounts, but I have several sets lying around that I didn't want to throw away. I will take a picture when I get home today and post it, and I'll take the scope off and remount to see if that helps. Is there any benefit to vertically split rings or is that something Warne does just to be unique?

 

[Rob01]

I see no benefit to them. I really dislike them as they are a pain in the ass to mount a scope in and give no advantages. Give it a shot and see what happens and don't hesitate to ask Vortex direct as they are great to talk to with question.

 

[gman1234]

Unless the rings are crushing the tube or the scope is moving in the them, it's not the rings.. probably a faulty scope. People always say scopes have to be torqued in spec. No they do not. Snug them tightly but no too excessively and put clear finger nail polish on all the base and ring screws.