Rifle Scopes Vortex PST vs. Mark 4 LR/T

[tm1575]

I am a long range enthusiast with the traditional Rem 700P in .308rem. I had a Springfield Gen 2 4-14x50 on it that i recently sold due to my growing affection with the Mil-Dot reticle. I have narrowed down to "needing" illum ret in a 30mm tube that has at least 20x magnification in order to make those longer shots at 1k yrds precise.

My questions are, does anyone have experience between the two to guide a guy on limited amounts to spend? Is the difference nominal enough to just spend less on the PST over the MK4? Is the MRAD reticle as accurate as the traditional mil-dot? What would justify spending the extra 5-600 on the MK4? I know glass is subjective, but would a non-professional really notice the difference??

I appreciate any feedback y'all can give....

 

[hydro556]

Re: Vortex PST vs. Mark 4 LR/T

Unless you are comparing the FFP MKIV's (which are much more money) the PST is a much better buy.

IMO, the PST is straight up superior to the SFP MKIV, price not considered. When you factor in that the PST is much cheaper, it really isnt much of a race.

And I am a Leupold supporter. They have always worked great for me. PST just changed the playing field though.

ETA_ I also think you are mixing up mil dot and MRAD. They are not mutually exclusive. The EBR reticle in the Mil version of the PST is proving to be perfectly accurate in my use and many others who have tested it far more thoroughly than I. I have had mine for about a month and it has been perfect out to the 650 yards I have shot it.

 

[Fisky]

Re: Vortex PST vs. Mark 4 LR/T

hydro,

What have you noticed between the glass in the scopes?

 

[hydro556]

Re: Vortex PST vs. Mark 4 LR/T

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fisky</div><div class="ubbcode-body">hydro,

What have you noticed between the glass in the scopes? </div></div>

That they both could be lesser glass and still not prevent me from hitting a target.

In other words, for my needs, both are better than good enough.

Glass is very subjective, but to me the PST glass is about the same as the MKIV glass. Cant really tell much difference.

 

[EXSOCAL]

Re: Vortex PST vs. Mark 4 LR/T

The PST is an outstanding piece of glass for the money and is a superior OVERALL scope when compared to the MK 4. As for glass, it sure does look more clear and crisp to me, but as the OP mentioned, that is highly subjective. Plus, as with all Vortex products, you can buy with complete confidence being covered by their awesome warranty should anything go wrong. Top notch company and products.

 

[tm1575]

Re: Vortex PST vs. Mark 4 LR/T

How are the click's on the turrets? I have had some in the past that are mushy and some that are not very "audible" or tight. You know, the ones that you mean to go one click and end up going three or four past because the click is very light and too easily turned. Any info on that point?

 

[hydro556]

Re: Vortex PST vs. Mark 4 LR/T

The turrets on both the PST's I have used are excellent, zero complaints and nothing I'd want different.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: Vortex PST vs. Mark 4 LR/T

I have three MK4's and one PST with another on the way. The updated turrets on the PST are fine, almost too stiff for me, I have one of the originals and it turns a bit easier.I did a very detailed comparison between them all. You should have a peek.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1994117&page=1

 

[jrob300]

Re: Vortex PST vs. Mark 4 LR/T

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coldboremiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> ...almost too stiff for me...</div></div>

Tell me you didn't just say that.

Now we'll have to wait another 9 months for them to redesign them again.

John

 

[phreakmode]

Re: Vortex PST vs. Mark 4 LR/T

For the price, I think the new M5 FFP scopes are a happening item.

I have a Mark 4 6.5-20x50mm ER/T M5 FFP I am happy with, the price was retarted however with the H-37 reticle. While companies like USO, Premier and now NF are tacking $500ish on to the scope price for a Horus reticle, Leupold is in the $800 range to option a Horus....

With that said, the M5 FFP with the TMR ret would be the way to go.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: Vortex PST vs. Mark 4 LR/T

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coldboremiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> ...almost too stiff for me...</div></div>

Tell me you didn't just say that.

Now we'll have to wait another 9 months for them to redesign them again.

John </div></div>

Don't worry Jrob, I think they'll leave them just the way they are. I'm just used to mine, at first I thought it was a little too loose, now I'm quite acustomed to it and the newer ones seem too stiff (forgive the untasteful play on words)

 

[AJBello]

Re: Vortex PST vs. Mark 4 LR/T

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hydro556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
That they both could be lesser glass and still not prevent me from hitting a target.

In other words, for my needs, both are better than good enough.

Glass is very subjective, but to me the PST glass is about the same as the MKIV glass. Cant really tell much difference. </div></div>

Really have to agree with this assessment. I've had several Mk4s (just sold one to fund the PST actually). I've always liked / been content with Mk4 glass, and the PST seems to be right there with it. I wouldn't be able to say one is better than the other glass-wise. Suffice it to say, the glass is more than sufficient.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tm1575</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How are the click's on the turrets? I have had some in the past that are mushy and some that are not very "audible" or tight. You know, the ones that you mean to go one click and end up going three or four past because the click is very light and too easily turned. Any info on that point? </div></div>

Here's a quick video I just shot, I think it demonstrates very well that the turrets are excellent:



I'm really really happy with the turrets. The little viewing window cut into the back is nice and really helps in quickly lining up where you want to be. Much better than just lining up two lines in my opinion.

I think optimum turret "feel" is almost as subjective as glass preferences. I've had many different quality scopes (Mk4s, USOs, NXSs, Burris XTRs, a Razor, now the PST), and the click feel on the NXS MOA zero-stop is still my favorite (NON high speed). I like those clunky, deliberate, clicks. Extremely positive and coarse. But that's a personal preference. The PST is just as positive, with a little less space between clicks, if that makes sense. They really are nice.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: phreakmode</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For the price, I think the new M5 FFP scopes are a happening item.
.... </div></div>

I like Leupold, but I just think they're outclassed with the PST. 3X vs 4X erector, no zero-stop vs the shim setup on the PST, no illum vs very nice illum, equal glass to my eyes, nicer turrets on the PST (my opinion), and you can get the PST for many hundreds less, even with Leupold VIP pricing. Durability could be the one X factor, but I don't think Leupold is without fault in that arena either (although I never had a problem with any of mine).

 

[kill_goose]

Re: Vortex PST vs. Mark 4 LR/T

The PST's intrigue me, but im still gonna hold off for a while until I hear more reviews, especially on durability.

I was extemely dissapointed with the standard Viper glass (those comparing it to a similar leupold and claiming the glass was better on the Viper are on crack).

My MK4's have been good to me. I dont beat them around, but I dont necessarily treat them with kid gloves either.

For the features and price (and if the glass is on par with the MK4's), they seem to be a kickin deal, if they can hold up well in the field.

So hurry up you PST owners and go beat em around in the bush some!

 

[Ag76]

Re: Vortex PST vs. Mark 4 LR/T

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AJBello</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Here's a quick video I just shot, I think it demonstrates very well that the turrets are excellent:
</div></div>

Nice job on the video...thanks!

 

[tm1575]

Re: Vortex PST vs. Mark 4 LR/T

That video is high speed! Thanx for linking that up, it really answers my question on that. This thread really helped me narrow it down to the PST, here's why:
- Pretty much the same scope between the two for a lot less $$ (the whole point of research is to save it, afterall)
-FFP over SFP for 400 bones less
-Better warranty (Leupold full lifetime does not apply to tactical models)
-For the enthusiast-not professional-it covers "well enough" more than well enough
- Nothing but good things have been said about the PST

 

[ncub13]

Re: Vortex PST vs. Mark 4 LR/T

You can’t beat Vortex customer service or warranty.

 

[6.5x61Super]

Re: Vortex PST vs. Mark 4 LR/T

,,very nice...the fiber optic reference helps as well...

 

[USACS]

Re: Vortex PST vs. Mark 4 LR/T

I also would agree that the glass in my PST is equal to the Mark4 glass. I also think the PST has a little better color fidelity. When you consider the cost, the PST is a better buy. The only way I could justify buying a Leupold Mark4 is if it were used. A $700-1100 Leupold is about right. A $1000-1600 is not. When you can buy a USO for $2k, why would you buy a Leupold FFP Mark4 for $1600?

 

[jrob300]

Re: Vortex PST vs. Mark 4 LR/T

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USACS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">why would you buy a Leupold FFP Mark4 for $1600? </div></div>

This is exactly where I went... and with the Razor only a little bit more, it was the logical choice. No regrets there.

But Mk4 vs. PST? If we're talking FFP, no brainer.

John

 

[jeffersonv]

Re: Vortex PST vs. Mark 4 LR/T

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kill_goose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The PST's intrigue me, but im still gonna hold off for a while until I hear more reviews, especially on durability.

So hurry up you PST owners and go beat em around in the bush some!

</div></div>

I could be wrong, but I'm not anticipating the PST's NOT holding up. The Razor has been out a while and has been beat on some. (You can reference Lowlight's video review.)
The Vortex site says of the Razor:

Shockproof Lenses are locked in place, fore and aft, with machined locking rings to remain in perfect alignment and withstand recoil and impact.

The Vortex site says of the PST:

Shockproof Lenses are locked in place, fore and aft, with machined locking rings to remain in perfect alignment and withstand recoil and impact.

The turrets have some pretty solid construction as per Lowlight on his review of the 1-4x PST.

This is a solid scope built by a company that knows how to build solid scopes.
Just because you aren't hearing about failures with these scopes doesn't mean they aren't getting some hard use and as I've said before, if they were failing you would damn sure be hearing about it here.