Rifle Scopes Vortex Razor 2 or Minox ZP5

mrobles3808

Sergeant
Minuteman
Nov 21, 2013
489
121
Nebraska
I currently own the Minox and love it -- just seeing a lot of razors in the PX makes me want to snag one. I wish I could do a side by side comparison mainly to see how my eye appreciates one vs the other. Would you be willing to share your experiences if you have used/been behind both scopes. Mechanically they both seem to be sound, I'm more or less looking for glass opinions as to if the Minox has a better prescription. I'd be comparing the Minox zp5 5-25 vs the razor 4.5-27
 
Mechanically they are both great scopes. Accurate repeatable tracking, distinct detents (clicks). The Vortex has more distinct clicks but with only 10 mils/rev to the Minox's 14 mils/rev. The 2nd and 3rd turn indicator on the Razor is easier to see than the 2nd turn indicator of the Minox. Also, I don't recall the mechanism adding any drag to the elevation turret of the Razor, whereas you can feel it in the elevation knob when you enter (or exit) the 2nd turn on the Minox.The Razor has daylight bright illumination, the Minox does not. Both have very good reticles available. The Razor is a few inches shorter than the Minox, but it's also 3/4 pound heavier. It's also brown. The color never bothered me, the weight was a small consideration.

The Minox glass is better. In my experience it's the best I've seen. The Razor glass is very good, and the difference between them would not be a good enough reason (by itself) for me to switch scopes.

The GII Razor is not included in the eval linked below but the AMG (which is reported to have better glass) is. Ilya Koshkin has forgotten more about optics than most of us will ever know.

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/forum/s...uation-part-ii
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: CSTactical
I don't have either one but have talked with a few Minox owners who say the same thing as scud. But the only real way to put your mind at ease is to pick one of the used ones and try it out for yourself. I think if you decide the Gen 2 isn't for you, you can list it for sale and really only be out the cost to ship the scope. Is there a $1000 difference?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
I've owned the G2 Razor and have a 15X ZP5. While its not the higher mag model I'll say like scudzuki the glass on the Minox is better. Build wise its a wash but the only thing the Razor has over the minox is price, that's it. My turrets don't have the issues scuds has but its a later made and lower mag model.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CSTactical
You could always say where you are located, and someone might be close by with a Razor you could eyeball

If you are in the VA/NC area shoot me a message. I have a 4.5-27 you are welcome to look through
 
Last edited:
They are both great scopes and you'd be well served with either option. Having owned the Gen2, AMG and Multiple ZP-5s now the difference in glass is where the Minox shines and is one of the best I've used including several other top tier scopes. If you're in Norcal and want to look through one send me a pm!
 
  • Like
Reactions: CSTactical
They are both great scopes and you'd be well served with either option. Having owned the Gen2, AMG and Multiple ZP-5s now the difference in glass is where the Minox shines and is one of the best I've used including several other top tier scopes. If you're in Norcal and want to look through one send me a pm!

Was the glass noticeably better than the AMG?
 
Razor HD II's have EXCELLENT Glass. I have a 3-18x which is fantastic. That being said, I also own a S&B PMll is have slightly better glass than the razor. Its a marginal difference but noticeable. For the price, features and reticle you will never regret the purchase of a razor.
 
I have used a Razor G2 4,5-27x56 for a bit over a year and my shooting buddy has a Minox ZP5. I can pretty much echo the same thing that has been said and will add the following:

The Razor has a bigger eyebox, it is mechanicly accurate and I really like the "click-less" zero stop and the locking turrets. It is however very heavy.
The Minox has a slightly better contrast in the glass, is mechanicly accurate, it has a zero stop but no locking turrets. The clicks are also very tightly spaced, since they squezed in 14 MIL per rev.
Both seems to be very well built and you really cant go wrong with either of the two.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: CSTactical
I have no experience with the Minox but I do have the Razor GenII 4.5-27. Like Vargmat said, the click less zero and locking turrets are big pluses. The glass is fantastic but it's best feature for me is the EBR-2C MRAD reticle. When you also through in that fantastic warranty and the price there's alot to consider. They have an excellent veteran program and treated me great as a veteran as well. Good luck.
 
I like both scopes a lot. I prefer the MR4 reticle, but only barely. The EBR-2c is my second favorite that I've ever used. The vortex zero feature is one of the coolest features on any tactical riflescope hands-down. Both scopes have great turrets. I think the Minox illumination is brighter than other people are saying, but I could be wrong. There is a distinguishable difference in glass between the two. The razor's glass is great, but the Minox is excellent. The Razor is obviously 14oz heavier. The warranties are comparable. If it came down to it, though, I could see myself selling a Razor to buy a ZP5, but not the other way around.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CSTactical
I like both scopes a lot. I prefer the MR4 reticle, but only barely. The EBR-2c is my second favorite that I've ever used. The vortex zero feature is one of the coolest features on any tactical riflescope hands-down. Both scopes have great turrets. I think the Minox illumination is brighter than other people are saying, but I could be wrong. There is a distinguishable difference in glass between the two. The razor's glass is great, but the Minox is excellent. The Razor is obviously 14oz heavier. The warranties are comparable. If it came down to it, though, I could see myself selling a Razor to buy a ZP5, but not the other way around.

They are similar but comparable. The Vortex warranty is much easier and transferable. You have to register the Minox within 30 days of purchase to get warranty, warranty is not transferable, doesn't cover fire and a few other differences. For anyone wondering you can see both here.

http://www.minox.com/fileadmin/downloads/MINOX_Lifetime_Total_Coverage_Warranty.pdf

http://www.vortexoptics.com/content/vip_warranty

I have never been hands on a Minox but would like to see one being the glass whore I am. Look like a good option for shooters.

 
Rob that was a good find. I was all in on Minox but the warranty being non transferable is bothersome. I have not registered my first one yet and I'm sure 30 days is almost up. Wtf


If there's any problem registering it or any warranty issues, please feel free to contact us and we'll help get it resolved. :cool:
 
The Minox scopes really have to be used in person to be believed. I've got a Schmidt and just sold my BEAST, and have a Gen2 Vortex on my other rifle. I haven't used the Vortex since I got the Minox - it's THAT good.
 
Yeah it's good to have a dealer behind you but remember the Premier/TT issue. Dealers can't always help as it comes down to the company in the end.

And yes that is what you are, a scope whore. Be proud of it as I am LOL
 
The Minox scopes really have to be used in person to be believed. I've got a Schmidt and just sold my BEAST, and have a Gen2 Vortex on my other rifle. I haven't used the Vortex since I got the Minox - it's THAT good.

How was it compared to your Beast?


Covert is as Covert does.

Plenty of good feedback on the scout site.
 
Rob, you're right. Vortex is better on paper to be sure. My experience with Minox's warranty has been comparable to Vortex's. I think they'll shake out to be the same in practice, but Vortex's official stated policy is definitely more forgiving.

What did you have to have them warranty?

Hopefully they will but in writing there are differences. Just something someone spending that amount of money should look at.
 
Samething with S&b but Jerry R has taken care of me with every miniscule issue that has ever come up with Schmidt. I never registered one of my Schmidts. I feel pretty confident that if Minox wants to be in this market they will do right by those that buy their top end product esp seeing how this market has gotten and with them just entering at this level. Robs concerns are still certainly warranted. I am just putting my faith and money that CST and Minox are going to iron this out. Minox has alread address changes pointed out by CST feedback.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: CSTactical
Yeah it's good to have a dealer behind you but remember the Premier/TT issue. Dealers can't always help as it comes down to the company in the end.

And yes that is what you are, a scope whore. Be proud of it as I am LOL


Give us some time and we'll see what we can do :cool: Minox has been very good at listening to us and its customers and unlike Premier, they are not going anywhere IMO.
 
Give us some time and we'll see what we can do :cool: Minox has been very good at listening to us and its customers and unlike Premier, they are not going anywhere IMO.

That's good Mike. Have them look at the Vortex VIP warranty and do the same. No registering and full coverage. It's good you are there with them and helping them along but if the Premier/TT debacle shows anything it is that if it's not in writing then it didn't happen.
 
That's good Mike. Have them look at the Vortex VIP warranty and do the same. No registering and full coverage. It's good you are there with them and helping them along but if the Premier/TT debacle shows anything it is that if it's not in writing then it didn't happen.


I understand, just give us some time to work on it. Mike is on Vacation another week out of the country :D
 
That's good Mike. Have them look at the Vortex VIP warranty and do the same. No registering and full coverage. It's good you are there with them and helping them along but if the Premier/TT debacle shows anything it is that if it's not in writing then it didn't happen.

If a company goes out of business or gets acquired by another and a policy change happens it doesn't matter what is in writing either. Companies change and policies change, there is really no guarantee aside from purchasing a scope from a solid company that you believe in.

So far Minox and CS tactical has been 110% for me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CSTactical
What did you have to have them warranty?

Hopefully they will but in writing there are differences. Just something someone spending that amount of money should look at.


Two separate instances. I bought a rifle last year that had a ZA5 on it. It was their mid-tier hunting scope from a few years back. The previous owner either tried to screw me, or just never shot it enough to notice, but the scope evidenced some issues that were systemic to that model and probably why they discontinued it. I sent it back to Minox when they were still being handled out of NH and they saw that it was toast. They upgraded me to an illuminated ZX5 for free and shipped it to me at their cost. The original scope was never registered.

I sent the first ZP5 that I bought back to them as well because of a canted reticle. There was no way to tell it was crooked until it was mounted. NH didn't handle it well, but it was during the change-over from them to Blaser USA handling distribution. Mike reached out to Blaser/(new) Minox USA and they sent me a shipping label and had a new scope in my hands by the end of the week. New Hampshire dropped the ball in a pretty major way, but they're no longer involved with Minox, and Blaser resolved the issue exactly how it should have been.
 
If a company goes out of business or gets acquired by another and a policy change happens it doesn't matter what is in writing either. Companies change and policies change, there is really no guarantee aside from purchasing a scope from a solid company that you believe in.

So far Minox and CS tactical has been 110% for me.

You are correct but so am I. No dealer or even a CS person working at a company can set the company policy. They can help but if they get fired, leave or decide to stop dealing with the company then you are out of luck. Dealing with a solid company is definitely a good idea but having a solid warranty in writing is as well.
 
Two separate instances. I bought a rifle last year that had a ZA5 on it. It was their mid-tier hunting scope from a few years back. The previous owner either tried to screw me, or just never shot it enough to notice, but the scope evidenced some issues that were systemic to that model and probably why they discontinued it. I sent it back to Minox when they were still being handled out of NH and they saw that it was toast. They upgraded me to an illuminated ZX5 for free and shipped it to me at their cost. The original scope was never registered.

I sent the first ZP5 that I bought back to them as well because of a canted reticle. There was no way to tell it was crooked until it was mounted. NH didn't handle it well, but it was during the change-over from them to Blaser USA handling distribution. Mike reached out to Blaser/(new) Minox USA and they sent me a shipping label and had a new scope in my hands by the end of the week. New Hampshire dropped the ball in a pretty major way, but they're no longer involved with Minox, and Blaser resolved the issue exactly how it should have been.

Good that they took care of you. They sound like a good company with a good product. That's good for shooters.
 
You are correct but so am I. No dealer or even a CS person working at a company can set the company policy. They can help but if they get fired, leave or decide to stop dealing with the company then you are out of luck. Dealing with a solid company is definitely a good idea but having a solid warranty in writing is as well.


Minox is not only connected with Blaser Rifles but also SIGARMS. So they are a solid company and will be around a long time :cool:

This is just the start for them...
 
FWIW I will get my ZP5 back on Monday.
It's the first of 2 that I own, an early one (serial number 110) and the drag through the 2nd turn indicator was very high. It really was a moot point, I'll never even need the 2nd turn (the drag starts at 13.7 mils) but I figured, what the hell, it's wintertime and I can stand to be without it.

It took 3 months round trip to get it serviced in Germany.
Minox USA paid for shipping both ways.
Decent communication, but Minox USA doesn't know much once it's shipped overseas.
it was handled by the folk(s) in New Hampshire.

The warranty on the Minox is good, covering accidental damage (like the Vortex VIP warranty) but Vortex can get your scope back to you in a week, from personal experience.
Still, waiting 3 months to get a repaired or replaced scope is better than a total loss nearly $3k investment, and Minox is not likely to go out of business any time soon.

Rob01 you can check mine out if I see you at the M/D series this season.
 
FWIW I will get my ZP5 back on Monday.
It's the first of 2 that I own, an early one (serial number 110) and the drag through the 2nd turn indicator was very high. It really was a moot point, I'll never even need the 2nd turn (the drag starts at 13.7 mils) but I figured, what the hell, it's wintertime and I can stand to be without it.

It took 3 months round trip to get it serviced in Germany.
Minox USA paid for shipping both ways.
Decent communication, but Minox USA doesn't know much once it's shipped overseas.
it was handled by the folk(s) in New Hampshire.

The warranty on the Minox is good, covering accidental damage (like the Vortex VIP warranty) but Vortex can get your scope back to you in a week, from personal experience.
Still, waiting 3 months to get a repaired or replaced scope is better than a total loss nearly $3k investment, and Minox is not likely to go out of business any time soon.

Rob01 you can check mine out if I see you at the M/D series this season.


Now that Blaser USA in Texas has taken over, I know the wait times will be much quicker. We apologize for the delay that you had.
 
  • Like
Reactions: blbennett1288
The Razor was the only optic I had ever sold and regretted it, kept the other Vortex scopes and just added a Golden eagle. Their customer service, warranty, reliability alone would sway me that way. Oh, the glass is not bad either.
 
How was it compared to your Beast?


Covert is as Covert does.

Plenty of good feedback on the scout site.

I didn't have the BEAST side-by-side with the Minox to compare as I sold it just prior to getting the ZP5, but the BEAST is sharper than the Vortex Gen2, and the Schmidt is sharper and brighter than the BEAST. The Minox was sharper than all three.

I really loved the turrets on the BEAST, and the turrets on the Minox are excellent as well. The Vortex Gen 2 would have been my favorite scope for PRS until I got the Minox.
 
It's interesting to me that most are saying the Minox has slightly better glass. It truly does come down to your own eyes. Personally, I think the Vortex has better glass. However, when you are talking about any high end scope, you are pretty much splitting hairs.
 
if they could do a mil/le program like vortex that would be awesome.

I ordered mine through their LEO/Mil program

Edit: As wjm mentioned, give Mike at CSTactical a call. I ordered direct through Minox because Mike was out of stock of the MR4 reticle. Mike and Co. went above and beyond to take care of me. My next scope purchase will be through them.
 
Last edited:
I recently sold a Razor Gen II to partially fund the purchase of 2) ZP5 MR4's. The Razor Gen II was/is superb and I had no complaints whatsoever. In between, I purchased a ZP5 MR5 and the IQ and total lack of CA is what sold me. Used Razor Gen II's can be had for about $2K, which is screaming deal. If you buy a Razor Gen II, do yourself a favor and don't look through a ZP5, it will save you about a thousand dollars per location. If you are on a budget, the Razor Gen II is a superb choice. To me, it simply boils down to a matter of whether the IQ and lack of CA was worth another $1K, which to me, it was/is. YMMV.
 
It's interesting to me that most are saying the Minox has slightly better glass. It truly does come down to your own eyes. Personally, I think the Vortex has better glass. However, when you are talking about any high end scope, you are pretty much splitting hairs.

Yes, agreed. And this is the point where the concept of "point of diminishing returns" becomes very apparent. To my eye, the Minox has better glass, but the concept comes into play (big time) as to whether it's worth that much more money. I'm no longer paying for kids braces, college, car insurance, etc, so guess what ? It's my turn. Minox wins......But damn, the Razor Gen II's are a steal.....
 
Yes, agreed. And this is the point where the concept of "point of diminishing returns" becomes very apparent. To my eye, the Minox has better glass, but the concept comes into play (big time) as to whether it's worth that much more money. I'm no longer paying for kids braces, college, car insurance, etc, so guess what ? It's my turn. Minox wins......But damn, the Razor Gen II's are a steal.....



When we are talking better glass, exactly how much better are we talking here? Because if the glass is only marginally better, I don't know how the ZP5 is better than the Razor in any other areas... The turrets are awesome on the Razor, from the zeroing aspect to the feel and the the locking ability.. The magnification range is also great at 4.5-27, if anything brings the Razor down its the weight, even though it's not a whole lot heavier than its 5-25 competitors.. I guess for me personally it would be hard to pony up an extra 800 bucks for only slightly better glass with less features and warranty.. I would like to look through the Minox to see what all the hype is about though, maybe it could sway my way of thinking...
 
Here's where it gets very difficult in that there is no single correct answer that fits for everyone. Your questions above are spot on valid. You have prioritized and put in order what is important to you. Someone else may or may not have the same priorities. Hypothetically, who is right and who is wrong ? Answer is; neither and at the same time, both. It sounds like you would be really happy with the Razor and $800 extra dollars in your pocket. $800.00 buys a lot of ammo, there's no doubt about that. Also, from my perspective, there is nothing deficient about the Razor, it's a great scope. If you were able to take money out of the equation, the Minox would be my recommendation. You may not even see the difference in the IQ between the two. Or, you might find other things more to your liking on the Razor. Or, best case would be that you get to look at/through a Minox next to a Razor and determine that yes, there is a difference, but it's not big enough for you to spend another $800.00 on. Actually, I've gone through that process between the Minox ZP5 and the Tangent Theta. I've accepted the possibility that the Minox may "not be as good" as the Tangent Theta, but for another $1,000.00 to $1,200.00, I'm going to stick with the Minox.
 
Last edited:
I should have said this in my first reply, but I own both the Gen 2 Razor and the Minox ZP5. The price difference, for me as a LEO, was only $300. I prefer certain things on both scopes over the other. Yes, the glass on the Minox is better. Not just to me, but everyone who has looked through one, but the glass on the Razor is very good. Contrast, clarity, "pop", you name it, the Minox glass is arguably the best I've seen. Also, The Minox somehow managed to make all CA disappear, which on a 5-25 scope is pretty impressive. The Razor's glass exhibits some CA, but I honestly don't think CA is a huge issue.

I prefer the turrets on the Razor. Specifically, I like the 10 mil turrets. The spacing on the Minox is a little tight, being 13 or 14 mil (I can't remember off the top of my head). The feel of the turrets is a bit better on the Razor, but that's not to say the Minox is bad. The Razor's turrets provided slightly more tactile response, which may simply be a result of the 10-mil turrets versus the 13 on the Minox. As others have mentioned in previous Minox threads, the drag or resistance encountered when going into the second rev was noticeably greater on their earlier models. Current Minox models have improved turrets, which has greatly reduced the resistance going into the second turn. Frankly, even if I had an earlier model, with the greater resistance, instead of the newer design turrets, it's a non-issue for me and many others, since the resistance begins at 13.something mils. My Minox sits atop my DTA. For my 6.5 Creedmoor load, I can shoot out to 1400 yards before I start going into the second rev, so somewhere around 99.9% of my match shooting will be done in the first rev. 6XC will get me out to almost 1500 yards. For my 308, I'm still over 1200 yards before I hit the second rev. I like the true zero ability on the Razor as well, but zeroing on the Minox is identical to every other scope on the market. Loosen the screws on the turrets, spin back to zero, tighten the turrets, and away you go. Locking turrets are a nice feature, but not necessary, in my experience. The eyebox on both was generous and very forgiving.

I have the MR4 in the Minox, which I love. I prefer it slightly over the EBR-2C, which I also find to be an excellent reticle. The illumination on the Razor is brighter, but in lower light conditions, the illumination on either is more than acceptable. I had no issue eliminating parallax on either scope. Tracking is excellent with both. The Vortex warranty is well known. I understand some of the trepidation, given Minox's stated requirements, but from what I've read, they aren't stringent on ensuring you're the first owner, nor that the scope was registered within 30 days. The Minox weighs less than the Razor, and the Minox comes in black instead of whatever color the Razor is. Not that color is a deciding factor for me, just that I've seen some people complain about it. I think the weight is a wash, since you don't really feel the extra ounces once the scope is mounted. If you're looking for a lightweight hunting build, I could see someone wanting to shed as much weight as possible, but I doubt you'd be looking for either the Minox or Razor if that were the case.

i don't think you can go wrong with either. Both are excellent scopes. I always suggest looking through both and comparing for yourself. For me, a scope's optical quality is secondary, assuming we are comparing alpha-level scopes, to other factors, such as mechanical performance, choice of reticles, ease of removing parallax, tracking reliability, etc. Since both scopes check all those boxes, you have to decide if the increased cost is worth the optical quality. Since the real world price difference between the two is about $800, I can understand someone
 
Last edited:
This is the point where it gets very difficult in that there is no single correct answer that fits for everyone. Your questions above are spot on valid. You have prioritized and put in order what is important to you. Someone else may or may not have the same priorities. Hypothetically, who is right and who is wrong ? Answer is; neither and at the same time, both. It sounds like you would be really happy with the Razor and $800 extra dollars in your pocket. $800.00 buys a lot of ammo, there's no doubt about that. Also, from my perspective, there is nothing deficient about the Razor, it's a great scope. If you were able to take money out of the equation, the Minox would be my recommendation. You may not even see the difference in the IQ between the two. Or, you might find other things more to your liking on the Razor. Or, best case would be that you get to look at/through a Minox next to a Razor and determine that yes, there is a difference, but it's not big enough for you to spend another $800.00 on. Actually, I've gone through that process between the Minox ZP5 and the Tangent Theta. I've accepted the possibility that the Minox may "not be as good" as the Tangent Theta, but for another $1,000.00 to $1,200.00, I'm going to stick with the Minox.

I can respect that view, I actually have a Razor gen 2 and love all of its many fearures. I'm sure the Minox is a great optic, maybe I'll get a peek at one soon..
 
My Minox is by far the best glass I've looked through. Several of my buddies and I went back and forth from an S&B and the nod went to the Minox 4 out of 5 shooters. I know glass is a small part of it but it's usually the most asked about.

Turrets on mine were a little tight, but I actually didn't mind that as it would be very hard for you to accidentally bump it. It's the kind of turret I would want on a work gun or competition gun.

The only down side for me was size. It's on the same playing field as most 5-25's but I would prefer a shorter optic. I'm likely moving to a F1 Beast or 5-25 Ultra short for this reason only.