Rifle Scopes Vortex Razor hd gen ii 32yd parallax and .22LR

[Kline]

So here’s the deal. I have recently purchased a vudoo v22 and want to set up a trainer rifle identical to my 6.5 creedmoor with the future prospect of competing with both of them in various local matches. The trainer will see lots of use as I am able to shoot and practice in my backyard out to 200m or so. I currently have a leupold mk8 on my 6.5, and realizing that it doesn’t parallax down below 50yds and just by the cost alone another is not going to be an option for the vudoo. I am looking hard at the vortex razor gen ii but have been reading conflicting things about how much the 32yd parallax does or does not cause a hindrance at 25yds. Anyone who has used one at that distance for 22 matches etc I would love to hear your experiences. I also have been reading that if you mag down a bit you can focus that close, how much are we talking? I realize that the amg does 25, i’m specifically interested in the razor at the moment for identical optics if possible. Thanks!

 

[Eoddave27]

Check out the new Vortex Strike Eagle. If you sell your Leupold you would probably have enough to buy a used Razor and a new Strike Eagle. It has the same reticle as the Razor, a great eyebox and FOV, locking turrets and parallax down to 15 yards. The glass obviously will not be as good as the Razor but it’s more than good enough for the ranges you will be using a rimfire. The turrets clicks are not quite the same but the physical size and locking mechanism feels the same as the Razor. It also has a 34mm main tube and about 33 mils of elevation. I have one on my Vudoo with a 40moa rail and have almost 28 mils of useable elevation. I only have a few mils below zero so I didn’t use the zero stop which will limit elevation.

To your original question I know a few guys who use a Razor on their rimfire rigs. They all say that the parallax hasn’t caused an issue. They just dial back the magnification a little and they are good. I have a Bushnell XRS that I would love to put on my rimfire rig but it only goes down to 75 yards. I wish there was some way to adjust the minimum parallax on a scope. There very well may be a way to do it but if there is I don’t know about it.

 

[fdkay]

Sightron 4.5-24. Excellent scope with parallax focus down to 13 yards. I think the glass is better than the vortex. Not sure why folks keep ignoring it, especially for things like this.

 

[beetroot]

You will not be able to use full magnification at less than parallax is set for.
You can usually dial down a little and get it to work but if you anticipate shooting at 25 yards a lot you will struggle.

Trying to do some dry fire practice with my PST 3-15 at 10yard, the 20yard minimum setting only allowed me to dial to about 6x before parallax became an obvious issue.

I used a Leupold VX5 on my 22lr for a while and the 40yard minimum parallax was a big issue for 25yard shots, I think 8x was the most I could get away with.

 

[Kline]

Check out the new Vortex Strike Eagle. If you sell your Leupold you would probably have enough to buy a used Razor and a new Strike Eagle. It has the same reticle as the Razor, a great eyebox and FOV, locking turrets and parallax down to 15 yards. The glass obviously will not be as good as the Razor but it’s more than good enough for the ranges you will be using a rimfire. The turrets clicks are not quite the same but the physical size and locking mechanism feels the same as the Razor. It also has a 34mm main tube and about 33 mils of elevation. I have one on my Vudoo with a 40moa rail and have almost 28 mils of useable elevation. I only have a few mils below zero so I didn’t use the zero stop which will limit elevation.

To your original question I know a few guys who use a Razor on their rimfire rigs. They all say that the parallax hasn’t caused an issue. They just dial back the magnification a little and they are good. I have a Bushnell XRS that I would love to put on my rimfire rig but it only goes down to 75 yards. I wish there was some way to adjust the minimum parallax on a scope. There very well may be a way to do it but if there is I don’t know about it.

Thank you for the reply, I have been watching a couple threads about the new strike eagle as spec wise it does look pretty promising. I wasn’t quite sure about how well it would mimic its bigger brother razor however so thanks for the suggestion. part of me is a little apprehensive about putting a something like a strike eagle on my vudoo, but it does seem to have a lot going for it that should make it a good fit.

 

[Kline]

Sightron 4.5-24. Excellent scope with parallax focus down to 13 yards. I think the glass is better than the vortex. Not sure why folks keep ignoring it, especially for things like this.

For me it’s because I want to mimic my centerfire rifle, so I want the same reticle and feel and preferably even the same optic on both.

 

[Arc Light]

Sightron 4.5-24. Excellent scope with parallax focus down to 13 yards. I think the glass is better than the vortex. Not sure why folks keep ignoring it, especially for things like this.

I have four Sightron SIII scopes and nothing comes close for the money. The Chinese glass offered in scopes costing the same is not even in the same league as Sightron. Seems like a no brainer to me.

 

[Kline]

You will not be able to use full magnification at less than parallax is set for.
You can usually dial down a little and get it to work but if you anticipate shooting at 25 yards a lot you will struggle.

Trying to do some dry fire practice with my PST 3-15 at 10yard, the 20yard minimum setting only allowed me to dial to about 6x before parallax became an obvious issue.

I used a Leupold VX5 on my 22lr for a while and the 40yard minimum parallax was a big issue for 25yard shots, I think 8x was the most I could get away with.

I have heard of people being able to do so, which is why I am curious for the razor specifically what mag you have to dial back to for 25. Because for me if its only dialing back to 20 or so it seems as if the clarity of the razor should make it plenty usable, but I would definitely appreciate hearing the experiences of those who have them and are using them as such.

 

[Kline]

I have four Sightron SIII scopes and nothing comes close for the money. The Chinese glass offered in scopes costing the same is not even in the same league as Sightron. Seems like a no brainer to me.

I asked about the razor, and explained why a couple times now. I’m not saying that the Sightron may not be nice glass but it is not what I am looking for or interested in. Thanks

 

[Eoddave27]

I have to admit I was a little reluctant to put the Strike Eagle on my Vudoo as well. Especially because a rimfire scope gets a lot more dialing than a centerfire optic in most cases. I have been using a Sig Sauer Tango 6 4-24x50 on my rimfire match rifle. The thing is the eyebox and especially FOV on the SE were better than my Sig. In the end I put it on my Vudoo and have really been giving it a workout before shooting a match with it. So far the tracking has been flawless. The glass is nowhere near as good as the Tango 6 or a Razor is. For shooting inside 300-400 yards it is more than good enough though and the FOV and eyebox make up for any deficiency in the glass.

 

[Kline]

Thanks, I might have to give it a try.

 

[steve123]

I have four Sightron SIII scopes and nothing comes close for the money. The Chinese glass offered in scopes costing the same is not even in the same league as Sightron. Seems like a no brainer to me.

I'm guessing that you haven't looked through the Athlon MIdas TAC or more equivalent comparison the Ares ETR.

I was just comparing a friends Midas TAC 6-24 to another friends S3 10-50, the TAC gave up nothing to the other scope with both set at 14x. We were comparing 6 different scopes that day and most of us felt the same way I did.

Op, it's mostly inconvenience having the 32ft focus in the Razor if that's the scope you really want, just dial the mag down, you'll be able to make out the 1/4" spinner at 25Y just fine, though it'll be slightly blurry. Set cheek rest so you are looking straight down the eyebox which greatly reduces parallax error.

If I could have any scope to mount on a 22 trainer it would be a NF ATACR 7-35 because of the 10Y focus.

In your budget I'd get a Athlon Cronus BTR 4.5-29x56. It has great glass, 25Y focus, and can be had new for $1400ish.

I use a S&B 5-25/H59 which is great on a 22 trainer! It focuses down to 10M and is a super versatile scope.

 

[fdkay]

For me it’s because I want to mimic my centerfire rifle, so I want the same reticle and feel and preferably even the same optic on both.

Well, you mentioned leupold and vortex. Definitely not the same scope and not the same reticle. If you are set on the vortex, then why are you even asking?
Christmas tree reticles are so similar in execution, I don't see a huge difference. I am not saying your reasoning isn't valid.
I have no experience with the strike eagle but I haven't heard glowing reports.

 

[Adam B]

I run a Razor on my Vudoo and my comp rifle. No issues at all shooting the Razor on the Vudoo.

 

[StrayDog]

OP, i've gone down this path recently--have you considered the 3-18x50 Razor II that goes down to 25 yd? If 18x is ok for your top end, that might work well.

Also, I've been looking at the new Tract Toric 56mm coming out, price is right, and reticle looks great, 25y Parallax, but waiting for 6/1 for reviews to trickle in.

I shoot an AMG on my vudoo now, and it feels similar enough functionally to my RazorII 56mm on my centerfire, and my 7C reticles match, i like it, for now.

I've also tried my older 3-18 and 4-27 EBR-2Cs on the Vudoo, and couldn't really tell a difference, but I think a 3-18 with the 7C reticle would be an upgrade. BUT, the parallax knob has more movement and range adjustment in the 3-18 than the 4-27, and the AMG has about the same throw as the 4-27, fwiw. The 3-18 has more than a quarter knob rotation between 25y to 40y alone.

I'm not sure I really want that extra dial range movement under stress for parallax or not... so that's why I've stayed with the 25y AMG over the 3-18 upgrade so far, because I think I will fiddle with parallax too much seeking a perfect adjustment, so I just wing it and go now usually by the numbers on the knob, lol, and none of these Vortex scope has let me down, center or rim fire.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

I run a 4.5-27x56 Razor on my Vudoo and have shot in matches where ranges ran from about 35 yards (match heads) to 300 yards. Knowing that MDs have minds that can be as twisted as those who design shopping center parking lots, I practice down to 25 yards shooting empty .22 cases off grass stems on the berm or the stems themselves. Focus is amply clear at 15x or so; I never really checked that closely. Never any problems; I can't imagine why anyone would think they need 20-27x at ranges under 50 yards anyway - especially in PRS-style competition.

 

[Maddybrook]

I run a Nightforce nx8 4-32 on my centerfire
parallax adjusts down to 11 yds
Might be something you want to consider
I'm currently looking for a Rimfire optic also and may be purchasing another nx8

 

[Kline]

I

Well, you mentioned leupold and vortex. Definitely not the same scope and not the same reticle. If you are set on the vortex, then why are you even asking?
Christmas tree reticles are so similar in execution, I don't see a huge difference. I am not saying your reasoning isn't valid.
I have no experience with the strike eagle but I haven't heard glowing reports.

I apologize I don’t think I was too clear about it, I mentioned the leupold as that is what I currently have, but I am looking at replacing it and getting another optic for my .22. Buying 2 identical optics, and am not dead set on the razor but with their mil pricing they make it very reasonable and I know that they are a popular and well used option. I am not able to shoot or look at them in person at the moment so figured I would ask for some personal experiences with them on .22’s 25yds. Thank you for your replies.

 

[Kline]

I run a 4.5-27x56 Razor on my Vudoo and have shot in matches where ranges ran from about 35 yards (match heads) to 300 yards. Knowing that MDs have minds that can be as twisted as those who design shopping center parking lots, I practice down to 25 yards shooting empty .22 cases off grass stems on the berm or the stems themselves. Focus is amply clear at 15x or so; I never really checked that closely. Never any problems; I can't imagine why anyone would think they need 20-27x at ranges under 50 yards anyway - especially in PRS-style competition.

Thank you for the reply, and experience. These are the kinds of things I am curious about.

 

[Kline]

I run a Razor on my Vudoo and my comp rifle. No issues at all shooting the Razor on the Vudoo.

Thank you

 

[Kline]

OP, i've gone down this path recently--have you considered the 3-18x50 Razor II that goes down to 25 yd? If 18x is ok for your top end, that might work well.

Also, I've been looking at the new Tract Toric 56mm coming out, price is right, and reticle looks great, 25y Parallax, but waiting for 6/1 for reviews to trickle in.

I shoot an AMG on my vudoo now, and it feels similar enough functionally to my RazorII 56mm on my centerfire, and my 7C reticles match, i like it, for now.

I've also tried my older 3-18 and 4-27 EBR-2Cs on the Vudoo, and couldn't really tell a difference, but I think a 3-18 with the 7C reticle would be an upgrade. BUT, the parallax knob has more movement and range adjustment in the 3-18 than the 4-27, and the AMG has about the same throw as the 4-27, fwiw. The 3-18 has more than a quarter knob rotation between 25y to 40y alone.

I'm not sure I really want that extra dial range movement under stress for parallax or not... so that's why I've stayed with the 25y AMG over the 3-18 upgrade so far, because I think I will fiddle with parallax too much seeking a perfect adjustment, so I just wing it and go now usually by the numbers on the knob, lol, and none of these Vortex scope has let me down, center or rim fire.

I appreciate your thoughts and experiences. Thanks

 

[Kline]

I'm guessing that you haven't looked through the Athlon MIdas TAC or more equivalent comparison the Ares ETR.

I was just comparing a friends Midas TAC 6-24 to another friends S3 10-50, the TAC gave up nothing to the other scope with both set at 14x. We were comparing 6 different scopes that day and most of us felt the same way I did.

Op, it's mostly inconvenience having the 32ft focus in the Razor if that's the scope you really want, just dial the mag down, you'll be able to make out the 1/4" spinner at 25Y just fine, though it'll be slightly blurry. Set cheek rest so you are looking straight down the eyebox which greatly reduces parallax error.

If I could have any scope to mount on a 22 trainer it would be a NF ATACR 7-35 because of the 10Y focus.

In your budget I'd get a Athlon Cronus BTR 4.5-29x56. It has great glass, 25Y focus, and can be had new for $1400ish.

I use a S&B 5-25/H59 which is great on a 22 trainer! It focuses down to 10M and is a super versatile scope.

Thanks for the reply, I did look into the Cronus a bit.

 

[Kline]

I run a Nightforce nx8 4-32 on my centerfire
parallax adjusts down to 11 yds
Might be something you want to consider
I'm currently looking for a Rimfire optic also and may be purchasing another nx8

Thanks, I was looking into the nx8 and the atacr a bit.

 

[Maddybrook]

Thanks, I was looking into the nx8 and the atacr a bit.

Funny thing, I just bought a 5-25 strike eagle from a guy on here just a few minutes ago because of a few of the comments in this thread especially from @Eoddave27.
Fingers crossed

 

[Eoddave27]

I don’t think you will be disappointed if is a reticle you like. As long as mine keep tracking the way it has so far it will be a winner. I guess only time will tell. I do know that if anything does go wrong with it Vortex will fix it which gives me piece of mind as well.

 

[Redfisher60]

I don’t think you will be disappointed if is a reticle you like. As long as mine keep tracking the way it has so far it will be a winner. I guess only time will tell. I do know that if anything does go wrong with it Vortex will fix it which gives me piece of mind as well.

Got one a day or two ago, really blows me away the quality of this optic (SE 5-25). Picked up a Burris XTR III at the same time, like the Burris reticle better because of the .2 mil hash marks, but the Vortex reticle thickness is really nice. Have not mounted either yet, waiting for rings.

 

[chevy_man]

I


I apologize I don’t think I was too clear about it, I mentioned the leupold as that is what I currently have, but I am looking at replacing it and getting another optic for my .22. Buying 2 identical optics, and am not dead set on the razor but with their mil pricing they make it very reasonable and I know that they are a popular and well used option. I am not able to shoot or look at them in person at the moment so figured I would ask for some personal experiences with them on .22’s 25yds. Thank you for your replies.

If your Mark 8 compares to the one I got to play with you'll be disappointed in glass quality.


Parallax adjustment comes down to removing the parallax. If you have proper repeatable cheek weld and eye placement you don't really need it. It's nice to be able to remove it and focus, but not a huge deal.



I still use a 50 yard scope for nrl22. The 25's may be fuzzy but I still hit them. Most of the time I set the parallax for mid range, don't adjust, and hit from 25-100. It gives up to much time on the clock to be playing with it all the time.


Is it important? Kind of. Will it cause misses? Only if your form and head placement vary shot to shot.


If you overlook sightron in the 10 yard parallax category you're doing yourself a disservice. They have amazing glass, and they're comparatively cheap. There is a reason you see them in high precision air gun and rimfire so often. I use one for our indoor league at 50'.

 

[koshkin]

With the 4.5-27x Razor Gen2, 25 yards come into focus in the 12x to 16x range and parallax should be reasonably well controlled. I would not have any problems with it on a rimfire.

If you want a trainer scope with the same reticle, Strike Eagle is a surprisingly nice scope. I have it right now on my T1X and it is a really good option for a precision rimfire.

ILya

 

[Kline]

With the 4.5-27x Razor Gen2, 25 yards come into focus in the 12x to 16x range and parallax should be reasonably well controlled. I would not have any problems with it on a rimfire.

If you want a trainer scope with the same reticle, Strike Eagle is a surprisingly nice scope. I have it right now on my T1X and it is a really good option for a precision rimfire.

ILya

Thanks I have been waiting to read a few more Of your thoughts on this optic in the strike Eagle thread.

 

[ScottDWallace]

@Kline That's the exact setup I use and I have no issues cleaning the KYL at 25yd. Yes, it is a tad fuzzy, but it really isn't an issue. Plus it excels at every other distance.

 

[Adam B]

I can see the strike eagle as a trainer but for a match rifle I would stick with the Razor

 

[Kline]

I can see the strike eagle as a trainer but for a match rifle I would stick with the Razor

Agreed, the strike Eagle is only being considered for my .22

 

[Adam B]

wasnt sure if you shot 22 matches or not

 

[Kline]

wasnt sure if you shot 22 matches or not

Gotcha, I’m definitely planning on it once time allows. I always seem to be gone lately.

 

[bhoges]

I have the same setup drives me nuts. You can send it back to Vortex and have them adjust things. I believe they can get it down to 25 yards. Im changing mine to a NF NX8.

 

[Kline]

I have the same setup drives me nuts. You can send it back to Vortex and have them adjust things. I believe they can get it down to 25 yards. Im changing mine to a NF NX8.

Thanks, I wasn’t sure if they did that or not. I am still waiting on a reply from them about that very thing.

 

[StrayDog]

Very interested in what they say about ^^^

 

[Kline]

Very interested in what they say about ^^^

I will let you all know what they say.

 

[car16smg]

I’ve got a 4.5-27 gen2 razor on my cz455 and go from 25-400yd with no issues. Like stated above, dial down power a little at 25, and you’re good. Most of my shooting is between 50 & 200yd

 

[NewsShooter]

I'm guessing that you haven't looked through the Athlon MIdas TAC or more equivalent comparison the Ares ETR.

I was just comparing a friends Midas TAC 6-24 to another friends S3 10-50, the TAC gave up nothing to the other scope with both set at 14x. We were comparing 6 different scopes that day and most of us felt the same way I did.

Op, it's mostly inconvenience having the 32ft focus in the Razor if that's the scope you really want, just dial the mag down, you'll be able to make out the 1/4" spinner at 25Y just fine, though it'll be slightly blurry. Set cheek rest so you are looking straight down the eyebox which greatly reduces parallax error.

If I could have any scope to mount on a 22 trainer it would be a NF ATACR 7-35 because of the 10Y focus.

In your budget I'd get a Athlon Cronus BTR 4.5-29x56. It has great glass, 25Y focus, and can be had new for $1400ish.

I'd suggest an Athlon too, Cronus can be found for less than that new and you can shoot at 29x at 15 yards if you'd like.

 

[JaoeyP]

Check out the new Vortex Strike Eagle. If you sell your Leupold you would probably have enough to buy a used Razor and a new Strike Eagle. It has the same reticle as the Razor, a great eyebox and FOV, locking turrets and parallax down to 15 yards. The glass obviously will not be as good as the Razor but it’s more than good enough for the ranges you will be using a rimfire. The turrets clicks are not quite the same but the physical size and locking mechanism feels the same as the Razor. It also has a 34mm main tube and about 33 mils of elevation. I have one on my Vudoo with a 40moa rail and have almost 28 mils of useable elevation. I only have a few mils below zero so I didn’t use the zero stop which will limit elevation.

To your original question I know a few guys who use a Razor on their rimfire rigs. They all say that the parallax hasn’t caused an issue. They just dial back the magnification a little and they are good. I have a Bushnell XRS that I would love to put on my rimfire rig but it only goes down to 75 yards. I wish there was some way to adjust the minimum parallax on a scope. There very well may be a way to do it but if there is I don’t know about it.

So I dont have experience with the Razor, BUT I have shot NRL22 matches with a 50m minimum parallax. I did shoot a stage in a wonky position and missed target at 50 yards and felt like my misses were from parallax error. Miniscule difference, but when I finished the stage I benched the rifle and was nailing the center of a paper target. My rifle also did not have an adequate cheek rest.

So, my take away, if you're shooting in a less than stellar position AND have a poor cheek weld, the difference in 32 and 25 CAN cause parallax error enough for a miss. If you've got an adjustable cheek riser or can build it up to where you have a consistent cheek rest, you SHOULD be fine.

The bigger issue is parallax error, not whether or not you'll be able to get a good sight picture (which you will).

 

[beetroot]

So I dont have experience with the Razor, BUT I have shot NRL22 matches with a 50m minimum parallax. I did shoot a stage in a wonky position and missed target at 50 yards and felt like my misses were from parallax error. Miniscule difference, but when I finished the stage I benched the rifle and was nailing the center of a paper target. My rifle also did not have an adequate cheek rest.

So, my take away, if you're shooting in a less than stellar position AND have a poor cheek weld, the difference in 32 and 25 CAN cause parallax error enough for a miss. If you've got an adjustable cheek riser or can build it up to where you have a consistent cheek rest, you SHOULD be fine.

The bigger issue is parallax error, not whether or not you'll be able to get a good sight picture (which you will).

I agree that whilst you can get away with a imperfect minimum parallax setting you are doing yourself a disservice knowingly putting yourself in that position.

If you intend to shoot a lot a 25yards then get a scope that adjusts that low.
If you shoot at 25 yards a little bit but mostly greater than, you will be ok.

My 3-15 with 40m parallel was useable and I did well with it but having moved to a scope that adjusts to 25yards I'd never go back to my old scope.

TLDR; if you intend to shoot a lot (say 30%+ ish) at 25 yards then get a different scope.

 

[Kline]

Update, No love on from vortex about having the parallax set closer.

 

[Eoddave27]

I wouldn’t think it will be that big of a problem. I Have a Bushnell XRS with the 75 yd parallax. I am fine at 50 yards and long as I stay under 18-20x

 

[steve123]

It was funny one time in a KYL stage many years ago when almost all long range scopes had 50M parallax. This paper stage started at 11Y, I put my HDMR down to 3.5x and man was it BLURRY!!! but I could barely make out the tiny dot and hit it. Another guy that did the same thing tied with me for 100 points.

But I was/am an avid air rifle shooter so it was frustrating in a way because we shoot at 10Y often and I know what a nice clean focused image looks like with my scopes that focus at 10Y!

 

[Usmcsomerville]

I'd suggest an Athlon too, Cronus can be found for less than that new and you can shoot at 29x at 15 yards if you'd like.

I was going to suggest the Athlon Cronus BTR, too. The BTR has parallax down to 25 yds. That is actually what I am looking at to use on my T1x trainer. I was using my Razor Gen2, but want that to stay on my 6.5 rig.

 

[Jabot]

Shot my gen 2 down to 25 yards no problem. U should be fine

 

[n00g7]

I have no complaints about the 4.5-27 Razor on my V22. Shooting 25y is pretty easy in a match because you don’t even have to look, just crank the parallax until it stops and dial back on the mag if necessary. Mine seems to get a bit closer than 32 as well.

 

[The4GunGuy]

What did you finally go with? I'm in the same boat. Started with the Vortex Strike Eagle and it's been pretty good but I can't over the mushy turrets and the parallax is a bit to "easy" on the dialing. So, I'm selling my Strike Eagle AND my Zero Compromise on my 6.5 Creedmoor and going back to the Vortex Razor Gen II 4.5-27 x 56...Wish I had never sold the first one. This way I have the same scope on both rifles and the same trigger in each set to the same pull weight (10 - 12 oz), and both rifles are the same weight (21lbs), so the only difference will be the recoil. That's just my through process...I'll see how it works out! I was worried about the 32 yard parallax on the Razor, but after reading the comments here I think I'll be fine.