So after much research via these forums my .308 build is coming near the final stages and new optics are in discussion, I have a budget where the Vortex razor hd is Top of the road for me, however I'm asking for opinions of other optics in the same ranges this is my first precision built rifle that I've owned Id like to do it right. Thank you in advance for any help that can be offered.
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Rifle Scopes Vortex Razor hd or other suggestions.
- Thread starter Elkoshooter
- Start date
Re: Vortex hd or other suggestions.
Be sure to call Scott @ Liberty Optics when you're close to buying. I just got my Vortex Razor HD from him. Prices are often less than published online, so don't look at a price for an optic and think that that is what you're going to pay.
Other contenders for me were the IOR-Valdada 4-16x50 FFP 30mm, the IOR 3.5-18x50 35mm, the Nightforce F1, and I purhcased and returned an SWFA SS 5-20x50.
Should other responders assume that you are looking at 50mm objective, First Focal Plane, 30-35mm tube, magnification in the 3.5 to 20 range, illuminated reticle, tactical "exposed" turrets, zero stop turrets? Also: MIL or MOA? All important options to weigh that will affect price.
Be sure to call Scott @ Liberty Optics when you're close to buying. I just got my Vortex Razor HD from him. Prices are often less than published online, so don't look at a price for an optic and think that that is what you're going to pay.
Other contenders for me were the IOR-Valdada 4-16x50 FFP 30mm, the IOR 3.5-18x50 35mm, the Nightforce F1, and I purhcased and returned an SWFA SS 5-20x50.
Should other responders assume that you are looking at 50mm objective, First Focal Plane, 30-35mm tube, magnification in the 3.5 to 20 range, illuminated reticle, tactical "exposed" turrets, zero stop turrets? Also: MIL or MOA? All important options to weigh that will affect price.
Re: Vortex hd or other suggestions.
many for and under 2k, "NXS, MK4, HDMR, .... but the HD has some big +'s going for it..
the glass
the reticle
the warranty
the Max Elevation Adjustment 125 MOA
many for and under 2k, "NXS, MK4, HDMR, .... but the HD has some big +'s going for it..
the glass
the reticle
the warranty
the Max Elevation Adjustment 125 MOA
Re: Vortex hd or other suggestions.
Ya, I talked to Scott at liberty, a friend of mine referee me to him, the razor hd is my top choice at the moment, with the ebr-1 reticle, guess I'm just looking for reassurance since this is a big purchase for me on my first build...heh, Ty again
Ya, I talked to Scott at liberty, a friend of mine referee me to him, the razor hd is my top choice at the moment, with the ebr-1 reticle, guess I'm just looking for reassurance since this is a big purchase for me on my first build...heh, Ty again
Re: Vortex hd or other suggestions.
I went on the cheap for my 700 sps. Just ordered a vortex pst 6-24 ffp. we'll see how it works out.
I went on the cheap for my 700 sps. Just ordered a vortex pst 6-24 ffp. we'll see how it works out.
Re: Vortex hd or other suggestions.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DG.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ya, I talked to Scott at liberty, a friend of mine referee me to him, the razor hd is my top choice at the moment, with the ebr-1 reticle, guess I'm just looking for reassurance since this is a big purchase for me on my first build...heh, Ty again </div></div>
Scott is a great guy. I'll definately buy my next optic from him.
It was a big purchase for me too so I know what you're thinking! Also keep in mind that the Vortex includes:
•Flip cap ocular lens cover and objective lens covers
•KillFLASH ARD
•4-inch sunshade
•Bubble level (cheap, not up to par with the scope)
...all which cost extra on other scopes.
I got the EBR-2B MRAD reticle. The reticle and the scope absolutely kick ass.
Don't forget to add in $200-$350 for scope rings.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DG.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ya, I talked to Scott at liberty, a friend of mine referee me to him, the razor hd is my top choice at the moment, with the ebr-1 reticle, guess I'm just looking for reassurance since this is a big purchase for me on my first build...heh, Ty again </div></div>
Scott is a great guy. I'll definately buy my next optic from him.
It was a big purchase for me too so I know what you're thinking! Also keep in mind that the Vortex includes:
•Flip cap ocular lens cover and objective lens covers
•KillFLASH ARD
•4-inch sunshade
•Bubble level (cheap, not up to par with the scope)
...all which cost extra on other scopes.
I got the EBR-2B MRAD reticle. The reticle and the scope absolutely kick ass.
Don't forget to add in $200-$350 for scope rings.
Re: Vortex hd or other suggestions.
i would go with the EBR-2 or EBR-2B... the "Christmas tree" is better...
i would go with the EBR-2 or EBR-2B... the "Christmas tree" is better...
Re: Vortex hd or other suggestions.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ring</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> i would go with the EBR-2 or EBR-2B... the "Christmas tree" is better... </div></div>
+1, the holdover possibilities are so much easier!
...unless of course the OP wants MOA.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ring</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> i would go with the EBR-2 or EBR-2B... the "Christmas tree" is better... </div></div>
+1, the holdover possibilities are so much easier!
...unless of course the OP wants MOA.
Re: Vortex hd or other suggestions.
I have two... They are great. Only downside is size, but I am not lugging around all day either... +1 on the ebr2 .
I have two... They are great. Only downside is size, but I am not lugging around all day either... +1 on the ebr2 .
Re: Vortex hd or other suggestions.
Mine has the EBR-2B reticle and I wouldnt look at another reticle. I really like the open in the middle of it. It lets me bracket a bulls-eye or target really nice.
Mine has the EBR-2B reticle and I wouldnt look at another reticle. I really like the open in the middle of it. It lets me bracket a bulls-eye or target really nice.
Re: Vortex hd or other suggestions.
Mr.Maim what made you choose the Razor HD over the other scopes? I am in the same situation as the OP and looking at the same scopes you mention. The Vortex and the Nightforce F1 are on the top of my list. I need help deciding my purchase. I dont want to pay more for the Nightforce if the Vortex is just as good thanks in advance.
Mr.Maim what made you choose the Razor HD over the other scopes? I am in the same situation as the OP and looking at the same scopes you mention. The Vortex and the Nightforce F1 are on the top of my list. I need help deciding my purchase. I dont want to pay more for the Nightforce if the Vortex is just as good thanks in advance.
Re: Vortex hd or other suggestions.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shadow25</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A good place to start with all this is the Optics FAQ at the top of the forum page... just a thought.</div></div>
He's asking specific questions about specific optics.
Padding your post count?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shadow25</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A good place to start with all this is the Optics FAQ at the top of the forum page... just a thought.</div></div>
He's asking specific questions about specific optics.
Padding your post count?
Re: Vortex hd or other suggestions.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JackF1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mr.Maim what made you choose the Razor HD over the other scopes? I am in the same situation as the OP and looking at the same scopes you mention. The Vortex and the Nightforce F1 are on the top of my list. I need help deciding my purchase. I dont want to pay more for the Nightforce if the Vortex is just as good thanks in advance. </div></div>
Jack F1, here is the longest answer ever...
When I first started looking at optics over nine months ago, I decided for myself a few things that were 'must haves' for my choice:
- First Focal Plane
- MIL/MIL turrets and reticle
- Illuminated reticle (more on this later)
- Effective ranging/windage/holdeover reticle
- High light transmission, edge clarity, color transmission... in other words great glass
- Exposed turret knobs, Zero Stop turret, High Speed turrets ("tactical features" for lack of a better term)
- 50mm objective lens (no larger)
- Magnification MUST go to 18x to 20x (not fixed)
- Price + shipping + rings under $2K
+ Of course the other things like customer service/warranty/support were all considerations as well
My shooting enviornment will be:
- 70% on a range, between 100 and 650 yards
- 20% in the desert at distances of 1000+ yards
- 10% club/competitive shooting (this number will increase over time)
- Current rifle is a DPMS AR-10(ish) platform, 18" barrel, .308, so my limit will be 1000 yards
- Shooting targets with desert/rock/dirt/brush background
- Afternoon and dusk shooting into shadows of mountainsides
My field of consideration was initially:
Schmidt & Bender
US Optics
Nightforce
Swarovski
March
Leupold
IOR-Vadalda
Vortex
SWFA SS
Immediately S&B, USO, and March were out due to price alone. Swarovski doesn't have the tactical features I wanted. Leupold, oddly, doesn't have a 50mm FFP illuminated model. Which leaves Nightforce, IOR, Vortex, and SWFA. My initial desire when all this searching started was for a Nigtforce. I've always wanted a Nightforce. For years I've wanted a Nightforce. Now that I start looking at them I find out that they only have one FFP model, the F1. The F1 is sweet. It ticks all the boxes on my list above. It's a Nightforce dammit! Even at a price several hundred dollars more than my budget, I still wanted one. The problem is, that it's a Nightforce and everybody with money to burn wants one too... to the extent that a month ago, I was looking at a 2-4 MONTH WAIT with an undetermined delivery date for an F1. Crap. Start over... so I started looking more at the IOR, Vortex, and the SWFA SS, and the next chapter in my search: the reticle.
The Reticle Quandry:
For me it has always really been about the reticle. I know I'll eventually become more accustomed to using the turrets like you're supposed to with an exposed turret tactical optic, but I hold-over and I'm damn good at it. If I know my range I can hold-over well. The problem with FFP reticies, as you know, depending on magnification, is the shrinking or growing reticle, which means you need to be able to see it well, regardless of magnification level. Shooting at paper: no problem. Shooting at a light, even colored background: no problem. Shooting into shadows: problematic. Shooting into broken terrain of varied colors and shading: real problem. I live in Arizona. 'Zona is in the desert. Don't know if you've been to the southwest, out in the wild, but the desert here isn't sand dunes and palm trees, it's dirt and rocks and hills and more rocks and mountains and more rocks and more dirt, and lots of underbrush. Rocks and dirt and hills create great backstops to shoot against but difficult backdrops for reticles if you're trying to use a reticle's subtensions for ranging. If you're trying to do it quickly (competition or hunting) it is even more difficult. The solution for this is an illuminated reticle that stands out against the background during the day, and, at dusk or into shadows. Secondly, my outdoor range is on the east side of a small mountain/hill/mesa/whatever, that creates long shadows in the afternoon. So more often than not you're shooting with the sun in your face and your target in the shadows. This causes problems in that the reticle is harder to see against the shadowed backdrop of the mountain. Solution: illuminated reticle, again, so you can see it against the dark backdrop. So you can see that an illuminated reticle is pretty important to me.
Going back and looking at the Nightforce (did I mention that I really wanted a Nightforce?) again, the IOR, the Vortex, and the SWFA, I started looking again at the illumination of their reticles. Nightforce's F1 reticles are available with two reticles where only the center dot is illuminated, and two with the subtensions illuminated. The IOR has a new 30mm model that only has center dot illumination, and a 35mm model that has also only had center dot illumination. Damn. That leaves Vortex with their Razor HD with full reticle illumination and the SWFA Super Sniper 5-20x50 illuminated. It was cheaper so I bought an SWFA. Received it, looked through it at home, took it to the range and looked through it, loose fitted it to my rifle and looked through it... returned it. I did not like the illumination one bit. Back to the Vortex and the IOR. I started reading reviews here and on other sites and everybody who owns a Vortex cannot say enough good things about them. Now, I know from other 'trusting online reviews/opinions' experiences that that doesn't mean jack, but I figured that I could return an unmarked scope if I didn't like it (again) so I called Scott @ Libery Optics (who sells both Vortex and IOR) and discussed it with him, still being on the fence between the IORs (both the 30 and the 35mm) and the Vortex. Same price shipped. DAMN! That didn't help! More reading online, then someone's post here finally did it for me... somewhere someone said that the one thing they really REALLY like about the Vortex reticle is that it leaves A GAP at the center of the reticle so the target it never obscured. Brilliant. My worry with illumination has always been (being an owner of Aimpoint Comp ML2, M3, PRO, Micro H-1) and several other red dot optics is that the dot can obscure the target at distance. At great distance the target, if using an illuminated reticle with center dot could potentially be obscured greatly. That was it for me. Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!
I bought the Vortex Razor HD, received it on 12/21/2011. The scope is built like a baseball bat. The optics are crisp and clear (this coming from a former NFL cameraman and semi-professional architechural photographer) and sharp, there is very little lens edge vignetting or spherical abberation, even at full zoom, and no chromatic abberations that I can see. The turrets are solid and 'click' crisply but not cheaply. The exterior coating is really nice. Lens caps, sun shade and ARD are nice inclusions. The bubble level is crap. The EBR-2B reticle is amazing. ...but the illumination... ahhh the illumination. Crisp and EVEN across the whole reticle. Visible from selector positions 5 through 11. <span style="font-weight: bold">Perfection.</span> There is nothing more I could ask for in this optic and I couldn't be happier with my purchase.
I took it shooting on 12/24 in the desert with a bunch of friends and bunch of guns. Most people had .17s, .22LRs, and .223s with the exception of a .50 BMG, so we decided to keep our targets within 175 yards (not my preference but I'm a team player
)We brought a bunch of 1/2 lb. Tannerite targets with us and placed them all over on a hillside at distances from 75 to 155 yards. I never set the zero stop turret, didn't have the 2mm allen wrench, and think that it is set from the factory at 200 yards so I could not dial down. No matter. I was able to consistently hit everything I aimed at, including the tannerite containers which are about 4"x4", using the subtensions on the reticle to compensate for the shorter distances and the reticle zero stopped at 200 yards. Slight illumination in the afternoon kept me on target faster than anyone I was shooting with. I was actually asked to 'take a break' because I was 'having all the fun' hitting the tannerite targets first.
I could not be happier about the Vortex Razor HD. For me, and what I need an optic for, it is absolutely and unequivocally PERFECT. I'm glad I chose this over the Nightforce F1. Yeah, I said it.
(sorry about the rambling post. I blame the caffiene)
Mr.Maim
I'm going to the range now so bang on some some 200 and 300 yard steel after getting the zero stop set properly. This time I'm bringing the allen wrench!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JackF1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mr.Maim what made you choose the Razor HD over the other scopes? I am in the same situation as the OP and looking at the same scopes you mention. The Vortex and the Nightforce F1 are on the top of my list. I need help deciding my purchase. I dont want to pay more for the Nightforce if the Vortex is just as good thanks in advance. </div></div>
Jack F1, here is the longest answer ever...
When I first started looking at optics over nine months ago, I decided for myself a few things that were 'must haves' for my choice:
- First Focal Plane
- MIL/MIL turrets and reticle
- Illuminated reticle (more on this later)
- Effective ranging/windage/holdeover reticle
- High light transmission, edge clarity, color transmission... in other words great glass
- Exposed turret knobs, Zero Stop turret, High Speed turrets ("tactical features" for lack of a better term)
- 50mm objective lens (no larger)
- Magnification MUST go to 18x to 20x (not fixed)
- Price + shipping + rings under $2K
+ Of course the other things like customer service/warranty/support were all considerations as well
My shooting enviornment will be:
- 70% on a range, between 100 and 650 yards
- 20% in the desert at distances of 1000+ yards
- 10% club/competitive shooting (this number will increase over time)
- Current rifle is a DPMS AR-10(ish) platform, 18" barrel, .308, so my limit will be 1000 yards
- Shooting targets with desert/rock/dirt/brush background
- Afternoon and dusk shooting into shadows of mountainsides
My field of consideration was initially:
Schmidt & Bender
US Optics
Nightforce
Swarovski
March
Leupold
IOR-Vadalda
Vortex
SWFA SS
Immediately S&B, USO, and March were out due to price alone. Swarovski doesn't have the tactical features I wanted. Leupold, oddly, doesn't have a 50mm FFP illuminated model. Which leaves Nightforce, IOR, Vortex, and SWFA. My initial desire when all this searching started was for a Nigtforce. I've always wanted a Nightforce. For years I've wanted a Nightforce. Now that I start looking at them I find out that they only have one FFP model, the F1. The F1 is sweet. It ticks all the boxes on my list above. It's a Nightforce dammit! Even at a price several hundred dollars more than my budget, I still wanted one. The problem is, that it's a Nightforce and everybody with money to burn wants one too... to the extent that a month ago, I was looking at a 2-4 MONTH WAIT with an undetermined delivery date for an F1. Crap. Start over... so I started looking more at the IOR, Vortex, and the SWFA SS, and the next chapter in my search: the reticle.
The Reticle Quandry:
For me it has always really been about the reticle. I know I'll eventually become more accustomed to using the turrets like you're supposed to with an exposed turret tactical optic, but I hold-over and I'm damn good at it. If I know my range I can hold-over well. The problem with FFP reticies, as you know, depending on magnification, is the shrinking or growing reticle, which means you need to be able to see it well, regardless of magnification level. Shooting at paper: no problem. Shooting at a light, even colored background: no problem. Shooting into shadows: problematic. Shooting into broken terrain of varied colors and shading: real problem. I live in Arizona. 'Zona is in the desert. Don't know if you've been to the southwest, out in the wild, but the desert here isn't sand dunes and palm trees, it's dirt and rocks and hills and more rocks and mountains and more rocks and more dirt, and lots of underbrush. Rocks and dirt and hills create great backstops to shoot against but difficult backdrops for reticles if you're trying to use a reticle's subtensions for ranging. If you're trying to do it quickly (competition or hunting) it is even more difficult. The solution for this is an illuminated reticle that stands out against the background during the day, and, at dusk or into shadows. Secondly, my outdoor range is on the east side of a small mountain/hill/mesa/whatever, that creates long shadows in the afternoon. So more often than not you're shooting with the sun in your face and your target in the shadows. This causes problems in that the reticle is harder to see against the shadowed backdrop of the mountain. Solution: illuminated reticle, again, so you can see it against the dark backdrop. So you can see that an illuminated reticle is pretty important to me.
Going back and looking at the Nightforce (did I mention that I really wanted a Nightforce?) again, the IOR, the Vortex, and the SWFA, I started looking again at the illumination of their reticles. Nightforce's F1 reticles are available with two reticles where only the center dot is illuminated, and two with the subtensions illuminated. The IOR has a new 30mm model that only has center dot illumination, and a 35mm model that has also only had center dot illumination. Damn. That leaves Vortex with their Razor HD with full reticle illumination and the SWFA Super Sniper 5-20x50 illuminated. It was cheaper so I bought an SWFA. Received it, looked through it at home, took it to the range and looked through it, loose fitted it to my rifle and looked through it... returned it. I did not like the illumination one bit. Back to the Vortex and the IOR. I started reading reviews here and on other sites and everybody who owns a Vortex cannot say enough good things about them. Now, I know from other 'trusting online reviews/opinions' experiences that that doesn't mean jack, but I figured that I could return an unmarked scope if I didn't like it (again) so I called Scott @ Libery Optics (who sells both Vortex and IOR) and discussed it with him, still being on the fence between the IORs (both the 30 and the 35mm) and the Vortex. Same price shipped. DAMN! That didn't help! More reading online, then someone's post here finally did it for me... somewhere someone said that the one thing they really REALLY like about the Vortex reticle is that it leaves A GAP at the center of the reticle so the target it never obscured. Brilliant. My worry with illumination has always been (being an owner of Aimpoint Comp ML2, M3, PRO, Micro H-1) and several other red dot optics is that the dot can obscure the target at distance. At great distance the target, if using an illuminated reticle with center dot could potentially be obscured greatly. That was it for me. Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!
I bought the Vortex Razor HD, received it on 12/21/2011. The scope is built like a baseball bat. The optics are crisp and clear (this coming from a former NFL cameraman and semi-professional architechural photographer) and sharp, there is very little lens edge vignetting or spherical abberation, even at full zoom, and no chromatic abberations that I can see. The turrets are solid and 'click' crisply but not cheaply. The exterior coating is really nice. Lens caps, sun shade and ARD are nice inclusions. The bubble level is crap. The EBR-2B reticle is amazing. ...but the illumination... ahhh the illumination. Crisp and EVEN across the whole reticle. Visible from selector positions 5 through 11. <span style="font-weight: bold">Perfection.</span> There is nothing more I could ask for in this optic and I couldn't be happier with my purchase.
I took it shooting on 12/24 in the desert with a bunch of friends and bunch of guns. Most people had .17s, .22LRs, and .223s with the exception of a .50 BMG, so we decided to keep our targets within 175 yards (not my preference but I'm a team player
I could not be happier about the Vortex Razor HD. For me, and what I need an optic for, it is absolutely and unequivocally PERFECT. I'm glad I chose this over the Nightforce F1. Yeah, I said it.
(sorry about the rambling post. I blame the caffiene)
Mr.Maim
I'm going to the range now so bang on some some 200 and 300 yard steel after getting the zero stop set properly. This time I'm bringing the allen wrench!
Re: Vortex hd or other suggestions.
Thanks for the reply after reading your post I am convinced that I can't go wrong with the Vortex.
Thanks for the reply after reading your post I am convinced that I can't go wrong with the Vortex.
Re: Vortex Razor hd or other suggestions.
Thanks guys! It was a long road... I started looking back in February at optics before I even bought the rifle it is now mounted on! Glad I could help.
Just got back from the range. Got that zero stop set correctly. The Razor is awesome! Great on paper, almost too good on steel. Hitting 300-yeard steel like it was at 50-yards! BANG! Ping. BANG! Ping. BANG! Ping. BANG! Ping. BANG! (no ping)(dammit!) BANG! Ping. BANG! Ping. BANG! Ping. Dude next to me at the range told me I should shoot at something smaller or I'll get bored!
The Vortex Razor HD is worth every penny!
Thanks guys! It was a long road... I started looking back in February at optics before I even bought the rifle it is now mounted on! Glad I could help.
Just got back from the range. Got that zero stop set correctly. The Razor is awesome! Great on paper, almost too good on steel. Hitting 300-yeard steel like it was at 50-yards! BANG! Ping. BANG! Ping. BANG! Ping. BANG! Ping. BANG! (no ping)(dammit!) BANG! Ping. BANG! Ping. BANG! Ping. Dude next to me at the range told me I should shoot at something smaller or I'll get bored!
The Vortex Razor HD is worth every penny!
Re: Vortex Razor hd or other suggestions.
Great deal here. http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2961965&gonew=1#UNREAD
Great deal here. http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2961965&gonew=1#UNREAD
Re: Vortex Razor hd or other suggestions.
I have ran a Razor HD for a little over 1.5 yrs. Its been used in comps, hunting, and just practice shooting all the way to 1100yds and the occasional trip to 1500yds. It has done great with only minor issue.
I am working on getting a 2nd just as soon as my funds feather out.
Hard scope to beat with the options it has, for the money.
Greene
I have ran a Razor HD for a little over 1.5 yrs. Its been used in comps, hunting, and just practice shooting all the way to 1100yds and the occasional trip to 1500yds. It has done great with only minor issue.
I am working on getting a 2nd just as soon as my funds feather out.
Hard scope to beat with the options it has, for the money.
Greene
Re: Vortex Razor hd or other suggestions.
I've heard its the best scope out there for the money. +1
I've heard its the best scope out there for the money. +1
