Gunsmithing Vudoo 22 and Manners Mini-chassis issue

[NWnewguy]

Hello all,

I have had a Vudoo for about a year now and tried it in about a half dozen stocks. I recently took it out of a KRG X Ray and put it in a T5A with chassis system that I had laying around. I also recently swapped triggers from a Timney 510 to a TT Diamond. In the X Ray the Diamond trigger was having no issues.

After I put the rifle in the T5A, with both action screws torqued per Manners specs, the trigger doesn't pick up the sear upon closing the bolt. I tried torquing the front action screw and only torquing the rear screw to 10 in/lbs, and it would still work fine, and it shot very well in this configuration. However, if I torque the rear screw to even 15 in/lbs, then it's back to not picking up the sear.

Has anyone seen this before? Additionally, does anyone have a solution other than swapping it to a different stock, or leaving the torque settings it is currently set at. For market value reasons, I would rather not bed the chassis in this stock. The stock worked with no issues with the previous rifle that was in it, which was a Surgeon 591.

Thanks for listening to this long winded post and for the assist.

 

[Kadams1563]

Hmm I am running my Vudoo in a gen2 mini chassis and have zero problems.

I am using 65 inch lbs but a Huber trigger. I bet it’s a trigger problem. Just tolerance stacking didn’t work out well with those particular parts.

 

[Jjviperzar1]

Hello all,

I have had a Vudoo for about a year now and tried it in about a half dozen stocks. I recently took it out of a KRG X Ray and put it in a T5A with chassis system that I had laying around. I also recently swapped triggers from a Timney 510 to a TT Diamond. In the X Ray the Diamond trigger was having no issues.

After I put the rifle in the T5A, with both action screws torqued per Manners specs, the trigger doesn't pick up the sear upon closing the bolt. I tried torquing the front action screw and only torquing the rear screw to 10 in/lbs, and it would still work fine, and it shot very well in this configuration. However, if I torque the rear screw to even 15 in/lbs, then it's back to not picking up the sear.

Has anyone seen this before? Additionally, does anyone have a solution other than swapping it to a different stock, or leaving the torque settings it is currently set at. For market value reasons, I would rather not bed the chassis in this stock. The stock worked with no issues with the previous rifle that was in it, which was a Surgeon 591.

Thanks for listening to this long winded post and for the assist.

I know it’s a different action, but I am running an impact with the same T5A with a gen 2 chassis and TT Diamond with no issues.

 

[Basher]

The trigger housing may be binding on the chassis, so that when you torque the action down, it's pulling the engagement surfaces too far apart. I'm unsure if the Gen2 mini chassis was relieved for Timney triggers, but the Gen1 was not, and it had to be done by Manners or another smith, if I'm not mistaken.

Edited: Bekuz huked ahn fonix werkd fur mee!

 

[missed]

Mine is in a gen 2 mini chassis with the Timney CE. Only fitting I did was the bolt handle slot.

 

[NWnewguy]

The trigger housing may be binding on the chassis, so that when you torque the action down, it's pulling the engagement surfaces too far apart. I'm unsure if the Gen2 mini chassis was releaved for Timney triggers, but the Gen1 was not, and it had to be done by Manners or another smith, if I'm not mistaken.

This is the first stock that I have tried that didn't work flawlessly. It's good to hear that the Gen 2 is working well. I will see if I can tell if the trigger housing is being impacted by the chassis or not and report back. It's working well and shooting very well torqued to 10 in/lbs on the rear and 60 on the front. Just seems like 10 might not be enough to keep the bolt from falling out.

 

[bjay]

I also using gen2 mini chssis no issue at all

 

[LRI]

I will attempt to explain this.

Take a "V" and lay a piece of pipe in it. There's tangent contact on both sides cause that's how it works with a cylinder. You lay much anything on it and it becomes a tangent body.

Now, complicate it by narrowing the ass end of said pipe so that it emulates a broadhead on an arrow. At some point the tangent contact stops and what is left is the material "under" the tangency point. What really screws it up is when you put a screw hole "back there". Now, your action behaves just like a seesaw on the play ground. The rear screw is the "fat kid" and it's making the front try to levitate off the register. You can force it back down with the front, but now it distorts the action.

Which is why your trigger group is AFU.

Two solutions:

Back off the tang screw torque as you mentioned. The second is to support the ass of the receiver. This is basically done using one of two ways:

Bedding
Pillars.

Bedding is pretty straight forward, scuff up the stock, slather in the grout, and wait for it to cure. Release your action, don't forget that.

Pillar idea is something I do cause I thinking bedding a chassis is stupid. Instead I machine a pillar contoured to the receiver body and install it at the appropriate height. Permanent, mechanical. Nothing erodes or dissolves over time.

Hope this helps.

C.

 

[NWnewguy]

Thanks Chad.

I like the pillar idea a lot better than the bedding idea as well. I will have to look into that.

 

[Kadams1563]

I will attempt to explain this.

Take a "V" and lay a piece of pipe in it. There's tangent contact on both sides cause that's how it works with a cylinder. You lay much anything on it and it becomes a tangent body.

Now, complicate it by narrowing the ass end of said pipe so that it emulates a broadhead on an arrow. At some point the tangent contact stops and what is left is the material "under" the tangency point. What really screws it up is when you put a screw hole "back there". Now, your action behaves just like a seesaw on the play ground. The rear screw is the "fat kid" and it's making the front try to levitate off the register. You can force it back down with the front, but now it distorts the action.

Which is why your trigger group is AFU.

Two solutions:

Back off the tang screw torque as you mentioned. The second is to support the ass of the receiver. This is basically done using one of two ways:

Bedding
Pillars.

Bedding is pretty straight forward, scuff up the stock, slather in the grout, and wait for it to cure. Release your action, don't forget that.

Pillar idea is something I do cause I thinking bedding a chassis is stupid. Instead I machine a pillar contoured to the receiver body and install it at the appropriate height. Permanent, mechanical. Nothing erodes or dissolves over time.

Hope this helps.

C.

He is using a Gen II mini chassis...

Did you miss that or still recommend skim bedding maybe.

 

[missed]

Like Chad stated something is off in the system, whether the chassis is not parallel, or the action is smaller at the end, something is distorting when it's torqued, whether the mini chassis is spreading out allowing the action to be stressed, or it's rocking on some point it's hard to say without seeing it. A rear pillar is the best solution in my opinion.

I'm torquing mine to #40in/lb. But i have indicators on mine when i torque it the first time to make sure there isn't some unexpected movement during torquing.

 

[NWnewguy]

Just because I'm a little confused about the post from Kadams, the set up that I wrote about in the first post, is a Gen 1 mini-chassis. Seems like the Gen 2 chassis are working great with the Vudoo, as have all the other stocks I've tried it in so far.

I think if I decide to keep the Vudoo in that stock that I will turn a pillar for it and go that route. Seems like the easiest and least invasive way. I've never been a big fan of bedding the chassis systems.

 

[missed]

In that case since it's a Gen 1 mini chassis I'm thinking the mini chassis needs to be relieved for the trigger. It needs a bit more space around it

 

[NWnewguy]

First, I would like to thank everyone that helped me with the diagnosis. It turned out to be a pretty simple fix after I actually took the time to look at the problem and figure out how to fix it. The issue was primarily that the trigger housing was making a lot of contact with the chassis, which acted as a fulcrum and caused the issue with the trigger not picking up the sear. Below is how I made it work. A little time with the Dremel since I don't own a mill. It was mostly touching on the radiused portion of the trigger (see pic), but it was also touching on the sides.

After I had inlet around the sides and could slide a piece of paper all the way around, the problem remained and thats when I noticed it was also touching on the front radiused portion of the trigger. Below is a pic of the chassis after some attention from the Dremel.

It was easy enough, but it was a little bit of a pain in that the problem didn't manifest itself until you put some torque on the rear action bolt. After it was relieved enough to not touch the trigger, I torqued it per Manners recommendation.

I then sprayed a bit of Rustoleum flat black on a plastic bag and used a Q-tip to touch up the raw aluminum, basically just for aesthetics.

Once it was dry, I torqued it back up and verified it was still cycling normally. I then went out and shot a couple of groups at a hundred that measured less than an inch in the wind with CCI SV and I pronounced it cured.

Once again, thanks for the help from the people that responded and if there is any way I can be helpful please don't hesitate to ask.

 

[missed]

Good to hear your getting it squared away!

 

[Xander3Zero]

I think Manners' mini-chassis inlet requires some modification from its "stock form" to work with the TriggerTech series of triggers.

Back when I was ordering my T4A I was talking with Tom and when I mentioned using a TriggerTech he said he would make sure the mini-chassis was inletted to accept it. When I got the mini-chassis I noticed it had fresh mill marks in the trigger inletting area, similar to the area you show in your pictures.