Vudoo 360 issue with feeding.

[Short Round]

I picked up a new Vudoo 360 and am still trying to tweak the feeding to avoid the jams.

I am using the KRG Bravo stock. After the first couple trips I began tweaking the stock to better hold the magazine. Currently I am having just one type of stoppage: the base of the .22 LR cartridge ends up above the twin extractors. Like it slid through the twin extractors or popped out of the lips without getting under the extractors.

I am currently at 450 rounds with a mix of Rem Eley, Wolf, Geco Rifle, Geco Semi, CCI Standard V but have settled on SK Standard + for now and that has been the last 150 rounds exclusively.

I am doing the tapping thing on the magazine trying to eliminate the nose down presentation from the mag. I seem to get the stack correct. The stoppage can be any of the rounds in the column, the first or a middle. This is off the bench so nothing to do with pressure on the magazine.

So far I moved the KRG Bravo’s forend back to where it about touches the green molded rear half of the stock and I over the trigger guard forward. Action installed back in the stock with the magazine in for alignment purposes.

Did I go too far to the rear with the forend?

Just trying to do all I can before wasting time of the Vudoo folks.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

First things, ditch all that other ammo. Ely is ok, but stay with Lapua or SK. SK standard is available, not terribly expensive and may solve some of the problems. I’ve been using it at times, not quite as accurate as SK Rifle Match in my rifle but it works and I have zero feeding problems. Finally go on and call Vudoo, it’s their business and their concern. They may have your solution right off.

I can say this, I have a veery large quantity of CCI standard. Worked fine in our Anschutz 64P’s and in Brenda’s Ruger American rifle. So we stocked up in the great Covid scare and ammo shortage. Talked with Vudoo about it and they said emphatically “Don’t”

 

[DownhillFromHere]

A couple of thoughts. In my experience (five years with a gen-1 V22 in MPA BA Comp chassis, meeting other Vudoo owners at matches), feeding issues usually arise from (a) improper magazine loading, and (b) improper "hold" of the magazine in the stock/chassis.

• Wrt to (b) above: there should be no more than 1/8" of vertical play when the magazine is inserted. If there's more... well, hopefully you have an adjustable mag latch. Fore/aft play - such as when pressure is put on the front of the mag when leaning into a barricade - can also cause misfeeds. For a simple function test, I recommend inserting a partially loaded mag into the rifle with the bolt closed. The mag should align itself fairly well. Run the bolt. Hopefully, feeding is correct. When my rifle was new, I had too much vertical slop, which usually manifested as failure to pick up the last round in the mag.
  
  Vudoo's fairly-new web site seems to be missing its how-to videos... but they're on YouTube. Check out the "Proper Magazine Fitting" video here, and hope it's better than their spelling.
  
  
• Wrt loading the magazine: People often assume you can just push the follower button down and drop in cartridges. Nope. I haven't had a misfeed now in a few years and several thousand rounds, even with the discontinued 15-round aluminum mags. Secret is to push the follower down Just.Far.Enough to slide a cartridge in, then, release the follower. The cartridge should push up into the nose-up position as described in Paul's video here. If not, I use a fingernail to pull back on the cartridge rim; this usually pops the round into correct position pretty easily.
  
  When fully loaded, the cartridge stack should have the bullets alternating as shown in the photo. The 15-round mag makes the alternation very obvious; ten-rounders won't be as clear but will still show the pattern. I can pretty much guarantee a misfeed by intentionally misaligning a couple of rounds. Misalignment most often happens when pushing the follower all the way down and just dumping cartridges in.
  
  At a match last month, a guy on my squad had misfeeds in his Vudoo the first two stages we shot. He was unhappy and said it happened far too often. I asked him to show me one of his loaded mags. Yep, misaligned rounds; he was pushing the follower all the way down and dropping in the cartridges. I showed him "the right way" and he didn't have another issue the rest of the day.

Finally, I hope you're aware that CCI SV is probably going to feed roughly in your Vudoo, usually because the bullet jams farther into the lands than Lapua/SK labels. Eley may also jam into the lands more than Lapua/SK.

Good luck.

 

[Short Round]

First things, ditch all that other ammo. Ely is ok, but stay with Lapua or SK. SK standard is available, not terribly expensive and may solve some of the problems. I’ve been using it at times, not quite as accurate as SK Rifle Match in my rifle but it works and I have zero feeding problems. Finally go on and call Vudoo, it’s their business and their concern. They may have your solution right off.

I can say this, I have a veery large quantity of CCI standard. Worked fine in our Anschutz 64P’s and in Brenda’s Ruger American rifle. So we stocked up in the great Covid scare and ammo shortage. Talked with Vudoo about it and they said emphatically “Don’t”

I saw that later, needs too much engraving force and a bit long in profile for feeding. I used it at the very beginning just to get the scope close and shot a few trial groups. The rest of the stuff...the target grade ammo was mostly remnants I figured I’d use for initial break in.

All the ammo I can feel some engraving but yes the CCI SV was five times as firm. I read somewhere here that Vudoo warns that will cause unwanted wear.

Yesterday’s range trip wasn’t bad as far as 50 yard accuracy. I am not getting the 100 yard groups that some of you shooters are getting. Then again the days that I shot a 100 yards were windy. Yesterday I shot at 50 yards then jumped to 200 for giggles, someone left a black and green sight in target up at 200. I really couldn’t see any rounds that went in the black square around the green bull but could see a four inch ish group......and worse with the wind gusts got me. I realize .22 lr is no .22-250 for 200 yard groups. I look forward to trying that again but with some orange surveyor tape wind flags up.

Anyway my stock adjustments before yesterday’s trips fixed the nose in to the top of the chamber mouth stoppages. I will look for the even staggering more carefully.

It kind of sucks to deal with the stoppages.

I think I will be ready to take pictures next time.

 

[Short Round]

I set up outside and ran some live rounds through the magazine (stagger inspected).

This what I get.

Edited to add, looking closer I see I was mistaken, it’s an extractor with a tensioner/ holder not twin extractors, which makes sense when it’s time to kick out the empty.

It seems like the base of the fresh cartridge can get past the upper arched lip of the bolt face at times. The bullet appears well started in the chamber and when inspected it shows no scraping of lead. Unlike when I tried it in the KRG Bravo as it came out of the box.


Edited again.....it’s the slower bolt close that seems to let the jump happen. If I keep up a certain bolt speed it doesn’t seem to happen. At least that’s what happened in five fully loaded magazines cycled just now on the picnic table out back. Not firing, just cycling the ammo through the gun and ejecting the rounds on a towel.

 

[Short Round]

Well at your suggestion I sent off an email to VGW with the same photo and explanation. Mr. Roman was quick to answer me. His diagnosis is likely weak extractor spring(s). He was kind enough to offer to send new springs and extractors or a call tag so that they could put hands on it. I chose the parts, it looks 10/22 simple to swap them. Nice folks.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

Well at your suggestion I sent off an email to VGW with the same photo and explanation. Mr. Roman was quick to answer me. His diagnosis is likely weak extractor spring(s). He was kind enough to offer to send new springs and extractors or a call tag so that they could put hands on it. I chose the parts, it looks 10/22 simple to swap them. Nice folks.

Now that I think about it, Vudoo sent me a new spring/extractor kit when my rifle was new and we were working on my feed issue.

Be.very.careful. when punching out the pins. I let one get away and launched a spring at mach 10 across my garage (vise mounted on workbench).

 

[Short Round]

Now that I think about it, Vudoo sent me a new spring/extractor kit when my rifle was new and we were working on my feed issue.

Be.very.careful. when punching out the pins. I let one get away and launched a spring at mach 10 across my garage (vise mounted on workbench).

Oh, I’ve never done that! lol, I once on a Sunday was assembling an AR lower and launched a detent pin and spring into a pile of boxes containing various gun stuff from my last move. Like eight boxes. I had to sift through and empty every box until I found them. This was after a long spell combing the carpet with my fingers. Needless to say when a coworker did the same thing I had a box of smalls as spares.

 

[mrmarklin]

None of the ammo you’re using is good. The Vudoo chamber is designed for Lapua ammo and is marginal for other kinds. SK works well too, however.

 

[srt-4_uk]

Bravo Chassis – Kinetic Research Group

kineticresearchgroup.com

We do not guarantee the proper function of Vudoo V22 or Bergara B-14r (rimfire) magazines in our chassis. It may be necessary to install and fit our Extended Mag Catch for proper feeding.

 

[flatland1]

When swapping out extractor or pusher, it's best to get a large zip loc bag or any other plastic bag large enough, and work with the bolt inside the bag. That way, if you have a plunger and/or spring fly out of the bolt nose, they're not going anywhere. Also, buy an automotive pick set (mine is a KTI-70070) to use when prying the backside of an extractor or pusher out of the slot. Very handy for that & other gun work - just be careful because the points are SHARP! When we were working at tuning the extractor/pusher on our converted 40X rifles, their plunger springs were much stronger & longer than the ones that come with V22 bolts, and were - at least in my opinion - a cast iron bitch to work with. The springs that come in V22 bolts are much less of a pain to work with.

 

[Short Round]

Those are stronger than my dental pick types. I should grab a set. Thank you for the idea.

I have changed lots of them in garands, M14s, FALs, 10/22s etc. I looked it over, should not be overly challenging.

 

[Short Round]

Well I was up early so I made a tool. I had a USGI cleaning rod section with a cracked female side. A minute on the grinder and another minute with a mill file to debur it and I had a handy extractor spring pusher. Damn I use that bench grinder a lot to make little tools.

I swapped out the extractor parts for the set Vudoo sent. Round one jumped the extractors and landed above the bolt face. I thought I had all the rounds arranged right but perhaps the nose hung up or the mag was a low.

I dry cycled the next 49 rounds at various bolt speeds and everything worked perfectly. I even tested the two extra glass nylon magazines.

Edit....I would never have a totally flawless ten round magazine full before, heck not even with only five rounds.

I think this problem is solved.

Of course the next 48 hours appears to be stormy.

Thanks to the Vudoo folks for the help and prompt parts support.

And thank you guys for your help and experience.

 

[Short Round]

On the range things worked perfectly with SK standard plus. Working on getting a couple bricks of SK Rifle match. I also have reduced the trigger so that it isn’t handicapping me.

My data from the last trip seems to have been off a touch at 200. I guess I have to build a data set better. I wonder if I adjusted the dial on the knob and reset things to zero and didn’t write it down. That’s just something I would do. Still in a break in set up phase anyhow.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

My data from the last trip seems to have been off a touch at 200. I guess I have to build a data set better. I wonder if I adjusted the dial on the knob and reset things to zero and didn’t write it down.

The further out you go - 200 and out, and especially 300+ - you will find that your elevation requirements seemingly change by the hour. It is to your benefit to log everything from trip to trip - temperature, humidity, lighting conditions, and ESPECIALLY wind. Even if you don't feel the wind.

In my experience, echoed by multiple match buddies, even a mild breeze moves a .22LR bullet laterally a surprising amount. Temperature variations, along with wind, scatter elevation requirements 300 yards and out.

Don't be surprised to see day to day variations of nearly a mil at 300 and over a mil at 400 due to environmental conditions. If there's any breeze blowing, and especially if the breeze is switchy or gusty, I don't read much into 300+ yard performance.

That's not to say that practicing in such conditions isn't essentially mandatory. I just don't modify ballistic solver data based on what I see on windy days.

 

[Short Round]

The further out you go - 200 and out, and especially 300+ - you will find that your elevation requirements seemingly change by the hour. It is to your benefit to log everything from trip to trip - temperature, humidity, lighting conditions, and ESPECIALLY wind. Even if you don't feel the wind.

In my experience, echoed by multiple match buddies, even a mild breeze moves a .22LR bullet laterally a surprising amount. Temperature variations, along with wind, scatter elevation requirements 300 yards and out.

Don't be surprised to see day to day variations of nearly a mil at 300 and over a mil at 400 due to environmental conditions. If there's any breeze blowing, and especially if the breeze is switchy or gusty, I don't read much into 300+ yard performance.

That's not to say that practicing in such conditions isn't essentially mandatory. I just don't modify ballistic solver data based on what I see on windy days.

It was like pea soup humidity wise compared to the previous trip that generated the data. Temps were close. That makes sense for that to be a factor the farther out you go.