Vudoo breach

[Geno C.]

I looked through the Vudoo thread and gave up hope of finding the answer.

With the v22 being a crf system and the round not supposed to be contacting the breach at all before it hits the chamber, why the hybrid cone breach over the flat breach? We’re they originally offered in both or was the hybrid brought out later to solve a problem?

 

[Hellbender]

Crap falling down the bore from suppressors when the gun is pointed up causes hard bolt closing. You have to crush the crap against the flat breech with the bolt face. Less surface area with a cone breech therefore less crap to crush...ie.... easier bolt closing.

 

[Geno C.]

That the only reason? That wouldn’t be a deal breaker for me.

 

[missed]

Yes that was the reason for the hybrid cone breech to handle gunk. I let the kids shoot a bunch of Norma tac through mine and there was a significant amount of goo on the breech from that slimy ammo, and still no hard closing.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Here’s the no nonsense reasons:

Flat breech works fine. Owned two and still own one. As long as you keep it clean.

The problem is, many were not cleaning their rifles. Just treating it like centerfires. Vudoo has pics of some of the chambers. Every time someone sent one back for an issue, it was always not cleaned properly.

Enter the coned breech. But this time, people started buying $3k .22 rifles and putting shitty $0.02/rnd junk ammo into a chamber that’s custom cut for much tighter tolerances. For whatever reason, people want to buy a Ferrari .22 and run junk ass ammo.

The hybrid come has now come along that allows for better function when dirty as well as better at running shit ammo.


Had people maintained their rifles properly and not run junk ammo, the flat breech would still be on production.

 

[bjay]

I like to clean my EXPENSIVE toys each after shooting..the flat breech is easier to clean.with q tip vs.hybrids/cone whatever you wanna call it...

 

[Mr.BR]

Cone breach original rason for existance is simplicity of chambering barrels as you do not need to mil extractor slots, but the downside is the chamber is much more prone to damage dryfiring ,unless the action has firing pin backstop.

 

[missed]

The only cleaning mine gets is swap the chamber, wipe the bolt and breech down and it's done. My Annie has over 20k rounds though it and barrel has only been cleaned 4 times. Like others said cheap ammo can cause hell in a match 22 chamber and system.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Here is direct quote from FB from










Hey Guys, good thread with good questions. Let me add a little to clarify things but Robert Ormond and Kyle Gray are right on the money. We went to the coned breech to give a place for crud to go and prevent what some experienced as a hard bolt close after it got dirty enough. It is really only a concern with unburnt powder from suppressors, trickling back down the barrel during muzzle up movement and sticking to the bolt face on the sticky 22 lube, then not cleaning it regular. As NRL 22 and 22 PRS type events have gotten so popular, it started to show up more often (we conceived our rifle design before these events even existed) so being the type of constantly evolving and improving company that we try to be, we decided to find a solution. For those that clean their rifle normally, it didn’t present a problem but many of our customers come from the PRS world and don’t clean until it’s time to change a shot out barrel, lol. Unfortunately, that habit doesn’t translate from the centerfire world into precision rimfire very well. 22’s are so much dirtier. But, like most of you, we also like to shoot suppressed most of the time and clean as little as possible so...Mike Bush, the genius engineer behind the V-22 and my partner in Vudoo went about solving the issue for those of us that land in the lowest common denominator when it comes to cleaning. Hence, the coned breech. It works awesome with no negative side effects and has been our method for quite a while now. Why the second version of the coned breech? Well, no nice way to put it other than another set of lowest common denominator customers that managed to jam the bolt closed on non-match Ammo...many times, and finally do damage. So, the second iteration lets you be dirty and...um, how do I say it nicely...grossly negligent? Lol. But please don’t. It is just one of the best barrel materials out there (416 SS) so you can probably find a way to beat it into submission if you try hard enough. We operate Vudoo under a very focused vision/mission statement you can find on our website. It is: “We envision and create the exceptional, employees with passion, products that exceed mission targets and relationships based on respect and consideration.” Everything we do revolves around that from engineering, prototyping, testing, manufacturing and the way we handle customer service. It will always be...so you can count on many more ‘evolutions’ of the V-22 as we hear from customers in the field and continue to shoot, test and refine things ourselves, as we are all shooters too, here at Vudoo. By the way, there are still many more ‘flat’ breech V-22’s out there running strong than coned breech guns, at least for another few months, making customers very happy and having no issues as they are in the hands of those who maintain their guns the way a precision rimfire needs to be. The coned breech just makes it that much ‘easier’ to maintain. Precision rimfire’s are different than a centerfire and different than a ‘looser’ built rimfire we all enjoyed growing up with. It’s tight and small. What more can a guy ask for? But, it needs a bit of attention now and then. ?

 

[bjay]

Cone breach original rason for existance is simplicity of chambering barrels as you do not need to mil extractor slots, but the downside is the chamber is much more prone to damage dryfiring ,unless the action has firing pin backstop.

What do you think is a good snap cap for v22.some snap cap ive heard wont fit in our v22 chamber as being match tight chamber

 

[Dthomas3523]

The only cleaning mine gets is swap the chamber, wipe the bolt and breech down and it's done. My Annie has over 20k rounds though it and barrel has only been cleaned 4 times. Like others said cheap ammo can cause hell in a match 22 chamber and system.

That’s all you need. Make sure the breech face and chamber are g2g. Problem is, people don’t even do this.

 

[Dthomas3523]

What do you think is a good snap cap for v22.some snap cap ive heard wont fit in our v22 chamber as being match tight chamber

Why do you need a snap cap?

 

[bjay]

Why do you need a snap cap?

To practice my 8 yrs old daughter..in the garage loading and cycling.when not shooting shes finally showing interest and i need to give her full support

 

[Mr.BR]

Rimfire Match chambers are not 'tight' by any definition ,only in comparison with Benz type chambers used in semi auto rimfires.
The main thing that changed in regards to chamber design is they became shorter so bullets actualy start engraving the lands when chambered in many chambers bullet engraves up to last band , other thing is reduction of leade angle that used to be 5° but is nowdays ither 2° or 1.5°

Cleaning rimfires might not seem as important on PRS type rigs but in BR we see considerable drops in grouping as the lead ring in the leade grows. And only way to realy get rid of lead ring is by abrasive paste like Iosso. Without periodicaly cleaning the lead ring away you are far of rifles accuracy potential and might as well go on shooting cheap crap ammo.

Reason why lead ring kills accuracy is that it grows to a stage when its maring or even 'sizing' bullets , being that Voodoo use Bartlein barrels that are not taper lapped they have much less tolerance to lead ring than taper laped barrels like Shillen,Muller,Brougton etc. that typicaly have bores taper 0.02-0.03 from chamber to muzzle end , or Anschutz that uses a choke near the muzzle.
So cleaning shuld be even more regular to keep them at peak preformance.

Boretech and Iosso are most used in BR for bore cleaning . Only clean barels using proper bore guides and good quality cleaning rods, avoid SS rods in SS barrels (friction welding) , best rods at present are the melonited hard carbon steel Stiller/Holeshot arms rods.

Rimfire barrels do not get ruined by use of abrasive paste ,in chrome moly barrels we often see them peak at cca 60-70.000 rounds then slowly detoriate but many stay competitive past 100K , in stainless they generaly last much much less . often peaking before 10.000 and being replaced by 20.000 ,but you can cut away the chamber and rechamber them couple of times as all the damage is in leade area.

Lead ring

 

[Hoser]

Had people maintained their rifles properly and not run junk ammo, the flat breech would still be on production.

I shoot nothing but Eley TenX and Eley Match.

Do those two fit into your junk definition?

 

[shoot4fun]

At one time, long before I picked up a Vudoo, I owned a tricked out Sako Quad. When I first got the Quad I had chambering issues. Very tight bolt close for sure. On inspection, the leade had about 40 grains of lead in there from previous owner's "not-match" cheap ammo.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I shoot nothing but Eley TenX and Eley Match.

Do those two fit into your junk definition?

No, but the chamber is cut for lapua ammo unless specified. So, if you end up having issues, it’s on you unless you have them cut a chamber more geared towards eley.

I’m talking about the guys buying a $3k rifle and running 2cent ammo and wondering why their shit doesn’t work as well as they’d like.

Anyone running anything of less equivalent quality than sk standard plus is doing themselves a disservice.

 

[ScottDWallace]

Don't forget SK Magazine! Easily the best value to be had for precision shooting. SK Standard plus is my go to match ammo out to 150 (so far). Ran a KYL rack at 50yd yesterday and cleaned it, then hit the .25" two more times for extra points! Half minute target, "cheap" ammo, and a Vudoo are a lethal combination!

 

[Mr.BR]

SK Magazine is stuff that is left over in production ,biggest issue is that there is everything mixed in so far from consistent ,one tin can have bunch of lots and buch of grades in it from SK Standard + to X-act

My go to ammo for Rimfire PRS is SK Rifle Match or SK Long Range Match but nothing less .

I have been in Lapua Shonebeck plant couple of times and have seen production first hand.Have also been lot testing for past 7 years , first in Eley tunnels but last 3 years in Lapua. Tested my guns in March i got to batch test midas+ ,center x and as first customer ever SK Long Range Match , i have to say there is qute a noticable difference between diferent grades particulary steping down from Lapua Center X to SK Rifle Match or Long Range Match.

 

[ScottDWallace]

That's funny, because I had bigger groups and higher SD's with both Rifle Match and Long Range Match. Luck of lot I guess.

Until I'm through the 2k of Magazine and Standard Plus, or we get access to more than 150yd range, I'm done with ammo testing. The Vudoo has quickly become my favorite gun in the safe!

 

[Mr.BR]

Its luck of the draw as in some cases there can be number of high grade rounds in the tin (if for example a lot of much higher grade ammo is finished at 20.340 rds , 340rds end up in magazine tins but of course not in one tin as its bulk packing) but its newer pure it mixed with any and all ammo that doesn't make it in QC , so your experience with said tin is ither good luck on Magazine or bad luck on Rifle Match and LR Match ,drawing any conclusions out of a small sample is nonsense. You have to know that much of the ammo is made on the same machines with same components to same specs and which color box it ends up is only depending how it does on QC , so idea that somehow SDs are larger is nosense ,this are only variations from lot to lot.

 

[BigJimFish]

What do you think is a good snap cap for v22.some snap cap ive heard wont fit in our v22 chamber as being match tight chamber

My practice, by way of snap caps for dry fire in .22lr's in the past is to just use spent .22lr casings. I find them more durable than the crap plastic .22lr snap caps that are made which, unlike their centerfire brethren, are not spring loaded long lasting things but just molded plastic. Of course, spent .22lr casings are free as well. Obviously, the spent casings do not feed so well so I tend to put one in by hand and use it for several pulls before ejecting it and rotating it to use it again.

This is not a practice I have seen recommended by any rifle maker so it may not be the bestest idea ever. I just thought of it one day and have been doing since with no problems.

 

[bjay]

My practice, by way of snap caps for dry fire in .22lr's in the past is to just use spent .22lr casings. I find them more durable than the crap plastic .22lr snap caps that are made which, unlike their centerfire brethren, are not spring loaded long lasting things but just molded plastic. Of course, spent .22lr casings are free as well. Obviously, the spent casings do not feed so well so I tend to put one in by hand and use it for several pulls before ejecting it and rotating it to use it again.

This is not a practice I have seen recommended by any rifle maker so it may not be the bestest idea ever. I just thought of it one day and have been doing since with no problems.

This will not work teaching beginners how to cycle,feed and eject.rounds

 

[Mr.BR]

Empty cases without being stuffed shut at the front are no go , to much toxic and abrasive crap flys into the barrel when you 'dryfire' on them.

Could always stick some 3d printed 'bullets' into spent cases and have a useful snapcap.

 

[ScottDWallace]

so your experience with said tin is ither good luck on Magazine or bad luck on Rifle Match and LR Match ,drawing any conclusions out of a small sample is nonsense.

Regardless, my current lots perform at a level that is acceptable to my precision needs. I'm not going to argue with the chrony and groups, then shoot less precise ammo because it is supposed to be better. THAT would be nonsense.

My sample size is dictated by the ammo quantity I have on hand. The best shooting lots/brand go to the match, anything less is practice ammo. I'm a competitor, not an ammo testing lab.