Vudoo Gun Works V-22 Rimfire Bolt Action

[4Certain]

Cant the rifle the other way and see if it corrects.

Thanks Red. Good suggestion. Simple. I like simple! Will give it a go. 4 Certain

 

[4Certain]

Have you done a scope tracking test to make sure its not skewing to the right as you increase elevation?

Well worth it for peace of mind. I followed @lowlight 's video instruction on how to do this. Worked well and I now know what my scopes do up to 10 mil in elevation.

P.S. - oops, I see I'm late to the party and also that you hold over and do not dial up...so, never mind! haha

Thanks Baron23. I do not twist my knobs. Just set the zero and leave them alone. All my drop compensation is from the 1st Focal Plane Reticle.
I do not think 'tracking' applies if you do that... If it does I am certainly curious as to how. Thank you for your thoughts. 4Certain

 

[Baron23]

Thanks Baron23. I do not twist my knobs. Just set the zero and leave them alone. All my drop compensation is from the 1st Focal Plane Reticle.
I do not think 'tracking' applies if you do that... If it does I am certainly curious as to how. Thank you for your thoughts. 4Certain

haha...yeah, like I said

" P.S. - oops, I see I'm late to the party and also that you hold over and do not dial up...so, never mind! haha"

No worries, just ignore me, nothing to see folks! LOL

 

[4Certain]

The MPA marble ball level thing I find pretty worthless... both times I've had people shoot off to the right was based on the MPA level. Not that it's any scientific evidence, but just some conjecture.

Good evening Littlepod. What Bubble Level System do you like to use or Recommend? One on the scope? Or are there better eye catching options?
Thank you. 4Certain

 

[littlepod]

Good evening Littlepod. What Bubble Level System do you like to use or Recommend? One on the scope? Or are there better eye catching options?
Thank you. 4Certain

For me I have a bubble level attached to my scope, and I level it using a plumb line out at 25 yards and line it up with my reticle. In terms of leveling my scope to a level rifle, I usually just put my rifle on an RRS tripod and lock it down with the tripod showing me it's level.

 

[AMTGMC]

Question re: Scope Adjustment or Attachment:
Good afternoon Sniperhide friends. I have a Vudoo Gen 1 in an MPA BA Chassis with a Burris XTR III 5.5-30 x 56 scope. My zero is at 50 yards. I can shoot and it stays on zero pretty well. But when I shoot at a distance the impact zone tends to move to the Right. Note attached my target today at 150 yards. (Shooting Lapua Midas +) (Holes at bottom of target, not from this session). It could be 'wind'. but I have seen it occur, like today, when there was little to no wind. Go back to 50 yards, right on. Go to 100 and it is to the right. As I try to figure that out, I only come up with two options.
1. The Scope Mounting has the scope not parallel/coterminous with the barrel. They 'point' in different directions. Or,
2. The scope is canted and not square with the barrel. So when I go up to 6.2 MOA to shoot 100 yards or 15.0 MOA to shoot 150 yards it is off because of cant.

What am I missing? What else could it be? I feel like I have looked hard at the upper two issues... Maybe not hard enough...
What would you suggest as a way to Trouble Shoot this? And make sure zero is zero on the vertical axis of the scope regardless of distance...
Thank you in advance for your help.
4Certain

Try a tall target test @ 50yds to eliminate the wind at range.
As you run the scope up it should stay on the verticle line..

Oops didn't refresh page, not twisting turrets then disregard.
Carry on

 

[srt-4_uk]

Got my gun all setup so I'm happy. Replacing the bolt knob with something shorter/heavier made cycling it easier
18" kukri profile
ARC Xylo stock
Triggertech Diamond
Brass bolt knob
Burris XTR rings
Meopta Optika6 5-30x56

 

[4Certain]

Question re: Scope Adjustment or Attachment:
Good afternoon Sniperhide friends. I have a Vudoo Gen 1 in an MPA BA Chassis with a Burris XTR III 5.5-30 x 56 scope. My zero is at 50 yards. I can shoot and it stays on zero pretty well. But when I shoot at a distance the impact zone tends to move to the Right. Note attached my target today at 150 yards. (Shooting Lapua Midas +) (Holes at bottom of target, not from this session). It could be 'wind'. but I have seen it occur, like today, when there was little to no wind. Go back to 50 yards, right on. Go to 100 and it is to the right. As I try to figure that out, I only come up with two options.
1. The Scope Mounting has the scope not parallel/coterminous with the barrel. They 'point' in different directions. Or,
2. The scope is canted and not square with the barrel. So when I go up to 6.2 MOA to shoot 100 yards or 15.0 MOA to shoot 150 yards it is off because of cant.

What am I missing? What else could it be? I feel like I have looked hard at the upper two issues... Maybe not hard enough...
What would you suggest as a way to Trouble Shoot this? And make sure zero is zero on the vertical axis of the scope regardless of distance...
Thank you in advance for your help.
4Certain

Good morning Guys. Thank you for your thoughts. I answered my query this morning. I had NOT set my scope properly. It was NOT square with the world. On this set up I used an old system from the past that worked fine with less magnification Second Plane scopes. That inside the house door jam was not far enough away... I set up this morning with a 55 yard Plumb Line. My Vertical Cross Hair was NOT vertical. That, I believe, explains my shooting to the right...

I had four different machinist levels on the chassis. Made sure the scope was aligned with the Plumb Line as I tightened the Top Scope Ring Screws. Then I readjusted my Burris On Scope Bubble Level. Gee was it off!! The little BB Ball Level on the MPA Chassis was pretty close. Checked all levels and plumb line again...

Now to go find a time to get back to the range and do some more shooting. But I believe this will have remedied the "Goes Right" situation. Yes, I need to account for wind. And a little can still move it a fair amount at distance. And I need to make sure my gun is level when firing. And I need to do my trigger control part... But all those things I can do.

I thank you all for thinking and posting. You were helpful. And I appreciate it.
Grateful. 4Certain...

And may we all pray for our Military and First Responders and our Country on this 9-11 Anniversary.
Stay Strong and Resolute USA. Stay with the Constitution. Live out High Moral Ideals...

 

[Dthomas3523]

Go back and shoot it again. It would have to be extremely canted to account for that much lateral movement. Also, our brains tend to keep the reticle pretty level while we shoot. So, even though the reticle was canted in relation to the rifle, you likely had the reticle fairly level naturally.

I think you’ll find it was a combination of several things still.

 

[4Certain]

Go back and shoot it again. It would have to be extremely canted to account for that much lateral movement. Also, our brains tend to keep the reticle pretty level while we shoot. So, even though the reticle was canted in relation to the rifle, you likely had the reticle fairly level naturally.

I think you’ll find it was a combination of several things still.

I appreciate your words, Dthomas3523. I am an old surveyor and am pretty sensitive to out of level. It is easy for me to see a Rod that is not being held vertical. On the other hand, the reticle was out more than I care to admit. So it will be interesting to see. I normally avoid the range on Saturdays (especially right at deer season!) unless I am going to a match. But I may make an exception tomorrow. Get there before dawn and see if I can get set up for a shoot at 50, 100 and 200 yards... Thanks for your thoughts.
4Certain

 

[Tomiboy]

I agree with DThomas that you naturally hold the reticle pretty straight but he could have had the rifle pretty well canted, to get it nice and plumb,and not noticed

 

[Dthomas3523]

I agree with DThomas that you naturally hold the reticle pretty straight but he could have had the rifle pretty well canted, to get it nice and plumb,and not noticed

It’s fine to not have the reticle plumb with the rifle as many people have to do this to fit the rifle to themselves properly. As long as when you break the shot, the reticle is level to gravity, that’s 95% of it. The error of having a canted rifle but plumb reticle is extremely minor.

 

[Tomiboy]

I never knew that. I always start with my rifle level and then plumb my reticle to the level rifle. My objective is to have everything lined up plumb. I usually find the reticle is a bit off from the scope turrets by a tiny bit

 

[Dthomas3523]

I never knew that. I always start with my rifle level and then plumb my reticle to the level rifle. My objective is to have everything lined up plumb. I usually find the reticle is a bit off from the scope turrets by a tiny bit

I level mine to the rifle as well as I don’t have an issue.

But some people need to. Buttstocks like the AX that is adjustable for cant negate the need to. But there aren’t that many stocks with that amount of adjustability.

 

[rnaylor2]

Happy Camper today. I received Jill's email. Its on the way!

 

[4Certain]

Good morning Guys. Thank you for your thoughts. I answered my query this morning. I had NOT set my scope properly. It was NOT square with the world. On this set up I used an old system from the past that worked fine with less magnification Second Plane scopes. That inside the house door jam was not far enough away... I set up this morning with a 55 yard Plumb Line. My Vertical Cross Hair was NOT vertical. That, I believe, explains my shooting to the right...

I had four different machinist levels on the chassis. Made sure the scope was aligned with the Plumb Line as I tightened the Top Scope Ring Screws. Then I readjusted my Burris On Scope Bubble Level. Gee was it off!! The little BB Ball Level on the MPA Chassis was pretty close. Checked all levels and plumb line again...

Now to go find a time to get back to the range and do some more shooting. But I believe this will have remedied the "Goes Right" situation. Yes, I need to account for wind. And a little can still move it a fair amount at distance. And I need to make sure my gun is level when firing. And I need to do my trigger control part... But all those things I can do.

I thank you all for thinking and posting. You were helpful. And I appreciate it.
Grateful. 4Certain...

And may we all pray for our Military and First Responders and our Country on this 9-11 Anniversary.
Stay Strong and Resolute USA. Stay with the Constitution. Live out High Moral Ideals...

Good afternoon Sniperhide friends. Well, I got quite an education this morning. The angle of my scope as it is mounted on the rifle and the cant of the rifle when sending a round make a Huge difference in lateral placement of the bullet. More than I had assumed.

I was set up well before dawn this am. Shooting my Gen 1 Vudoo in a MPA Competition Chassis. I was shooting off www.TargetShooting.com Rests Model 2400 and Mini 9. I had a good level 3" wide Front Rider Plate mounted to the ARCA Type rail on the forend of the Chassis. Conditions were essentially calm. A breath of a breeze later. But not much. Quartering from the left.

The thing I see is that any movement out of plumb has a significant impact on the lateral placement of the shot. As I played with the rifle, intentionally canting it, I could see where the bullet was going to go. All, or at least the vast majority, of my Error to the Right in my earlier post was due to rifle cant and or the scope mounted off normal with a built in cant to the right. This is especially true for those of us who use the marks on the Reticle as the means of selecting the proper hold over for a particular distance. (I would assume this would affect Knob "Twisters" as well, but that is above my pay grade. And not the method I use.)

My 100 yard shots were right on the centerline. There may have been a breath of wind later when I shot 200 yards. But the thing I clearly see is my Scope MUST be mounted properly with the Vertical Crosshair dead on Vertical. And my rifle needs to be held so the Vertical Crosshair is truly vertical as I break the shot. I "knew" this was true. What I saw today was almost 'shocking' to this old engineer/surveyor. I "knew it". Today I saw it. And it is a BIG lesson for me. My gun has to be level. And the Longer the Shot, the more critical it will be. (The pink inside most circle on the three targets is 1" Diameter.)

Thanks for your thoughts and ideas. 4Certain

 

[littlepod]

Good afternoon Sniperhide friends. Well, I got quite an education this morning. The angle of my scope as it is mounted on the rifle and the cant of the rifle when sending a round make a Huge difference in lateral placement of the bullet. More than I had assumed.

I was set up well before dawn this am. Shooting my Gen 1 Vudoo in a MPA Competition Chassis. I was shooting off www.TargetShooting.com Rests Model 2400 and Mini 9. I had a good level 3" wide Front Rider Plate mounted to the ARCA Type rail on the forend of the Chassis. Conditions were essentially calm. A breath of a breeze later. But not much. Quartering from the left.

The thing I see is that any movement out of plumb has a significant impact on the lateral placement of the shot. As I played with the rifle, intentionally canting it, I could see where the bullet was going to go. All, or at least the vast majority, of my Error to the Right in my earlier post was due to rifle cant and or the scope mounted off normal with a built in cant to the right. This is especially true for those of us who use the marks on the Reticle as the means of selecting the proper hold over for a particular distance. (I would assume this would affect Knob "Twisters" as well, but that is above my pay grade. And not the method I use.)

My 100 yard shots were right on the centerline. There may have been a breath of wind later when I shot 200 yards. But the thing I clearly see is my Scope MUST be mounted properly with the Vertical Crosshair dead on Vertical. And my rifle needs to be held so the Vertical Crosshair is truly vertical as I break the shot. I "knew" this was true. What I saw today was almost 'shocking' to this old engineer/surveyor. I "knew it". Today I saw it. And it is a BIG lesson for me. My gun has to be level. And the Longer the Shot, the more critical it will be. (The pink inside most circle on the three targets is 1" Diameter.)

Thanks for your thoughts and ideas. 4Certain

Thanks for updating back on the thread! So I think BigJimFish and I checked it and it does look like about 4.x degrees to get that 1.5-2" shift at 150 yards. I know I listened to lowlight's video about how we can tell when we're canted, I'm curious how much 4 degrees is in practice. When I'm shooting targets that are not set level, like t-posts spiked into the ground canted, I wonder how much of my vestibular stuff tells me I'm canted and to what degree.

 

[SourGrapes]

When you guys are ordering these, are you getting a trigger with it to get timed? Or will it work fine if I just put on a TT on at home? Thanks for any info!

 

[4Certain]

When you guys are ordering these, are you getting a trigger with it to get timed? Or will it work fine if I just put on a TT on at home? Thanks for any info!

Good afternoon SG. I ordered my Vudoo with a Timney Trigger. It worked fine, but was not what I was used to. I changed to a Bix'n Andy TacSport Pro 2 stage and love it. The gun worked both ways. At this point I would order either way, if they offer the trigger you want. The Vudoo is a great piece of equipment. The Vudoo guys have been very helpful in assisting me as needed.
All the Best. 4 Certain.

 

[SourGrapes]

@4Certain thanks!

 

[littlepod]

Question - today I was running drills on different barricades. Put my rifle resting ontop of a 50 gallon drum, and was putting down a mat so I could not kneel on concrete. Was flattening out the mat, hit the 50 gallon drum and rifle came falling down onto the concrete. Caught part of it with my shoe, muzzle bounces off the concrete.

Yikes. Thank goodness for muzzle protectors. I immediately check the crown/muzzle, looks good. I go and shoot it to see if the zero got knocked off and now I'm shooting .1 mils high and like .7mils to the right. Groups are consistent and fine.

I go back to 50 yards to rezero, readjust the zero and then ran a bunch of groups at 50, 100, and ran groups out to 200, dope is fine, tracking seems fine and spot on for the 7.2 mils I dialed for 203 yards. Seems to shoot a little tighter too. I think everything is good? I checked all the torque on the action screws, and scope rings / scope base. So not sure what caused that .7mil shift on the drop, but I hope it just holds at the new zero now.

Thoughts?

Thanks.

 

[Tomiboy]

Yikes! I hope all is good! Sounds okay. Maybe the scope rings just got jarred a tiny bit on the rail?

 

[StrayDog]

If that happened to me and that kind of zero shift occurred, I'd take down the rifle to the barrelled action, rings, and scope. Then check scope rail torque, then remount action, then rings, then scope. Also a good chance to deep clean and rebuild confidence in the components. I'm sure you're fine, but I would want to remove any stress from impacted components and get another fresh start! Been there...

 

[Kisssofdeath]

My thoughts are, I'd look it over for any obvious visual signs of damage or alignment issues "fix if needed" then I'd shoot it and if it performed to my expectations with confidence I'd keep on shooting it. If you do find a problem simply address it and keep rockin and rollen.

 

[4Certain]

Thanks for updating back on the thread! So I think BigJimFish and I checked it and it does look like about 4.x degrees to get that 1.5-2" shift at 150 yards. I know I listened to lowlight's video about how we can tell when we're canted, I'm curious how much 4 degrees is in practice. When I'm shooting targets that are not set level, like t-posts spiked into the ground canted, I wonder how much of my vestibular stuff tells me I'm canted and to what degree.

LittlePod, one thing for sure (and 4Certain too!) that it does not take much! I was both shocked that my reticle was off when I looked at a Plumb Line at 54 yards. And I was surprised at how little it was off to make that much difference. I just 'knew' it before. I am a BELIEVER now! ... Playing with various levels to see which is best for my set ups...
Shoot well. 4Certain

 

[littlepod]

I got super excited with the Manners PRS-TCS stock arriving and hoped it would balance the Vudoo, but sadly it is way too butt heavy.

This is with the rear weight removed, all 7 weights added to the Area 419 arca rail, and the MDT Ckye Pod up front, and it barely balanced in front of the mag well. No bolt or magazine in either. No way to add more weights :/ So just not going to work. I need to I guess build a Manners PRS1 setup if I want it to work out on a Manners.

 

[Kisssofdeath]

What happened to the MDT? Can you return the Manners?

 

[littlepod]

What happened to the MDT? Can you return the Manners?

It's back in the MDT. I'm super happy with it now that I have it tweaked. I put the Manners on the Terminus Zeus 308/6GT.

I do want to try to trade my other ACC for a Manners PRS1 though. I know the Manners PRS1 w/ Arca Rail balances really well on the Vudoo.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Few things, 4 degrees is a huge amount of cant. You should be able to easily see this amount and know you’re not plumb.

“Mounted properly” isn’t the same for everyone. Some people will have level rifle/level optic. Some will have not level rifle/level optic. Just depends on the person and their setup.

Rifles are tools. We pay a lot of money for them. You should be able to drop them and beat them around without worry. Also, this is when bedding rifles shines. The zero doesn’t move much or at all when it takes a hit (that’s actually how you can to see if bedding a chassis will help.....beat on rifle and check zero shift).

 

[4Certain]

Few things, 4 degrees is a huge amount of cant. You should be able to easily see this amount and know you’re not plumb.

“Mounted properly” isn’t the same for everyone. Some people will have level rifle/level optic. Some will have not level rifle/level optic. Just depends on the person and their setup.

Rifles are tools. We pay a lot of money for them. You should be able to drop them and beat them around without worry. Also, this is when bedding rifles shines. The zero doesn’t move much or at all when it takes a hit (that’s actually how you can to see if bedding a chassis will help.....beat on rifle and check zero shift).

Mr. David Tubbs says on his website that 1 Degree of Cant Equals 6" Lateral at 1000 yards. So 1 Degree of Cant at 100 yards is 0.6", at 150 yards 0.9". The group was about 2" right. So just over 2 degrees of cant.

When I saw the angle the scope was off on my Vudoo, I was surprised that the small amount of cant revealed by the plumb line resulted in a 2" error.

Makes me want to pay very close attention to keeping my Vertical Crosshair, vertical. 4Certain

 

[Dthomas3523]

Mr. David Tubbs says on his website that 1 Degree of Cant Equals 6" Lateral at 1000 yards. So 1 Degree of Cant at 100 yards is 0.6", at 150 yards 0.9". The group was about 2" right. So just over 2 degrees of cant.

When I saw the angle the scope was off on my Vudoo, I was surprised that the small amount of cant revealed by the plumb line resulted in a 2" error.

Makes me want to pay very close attention to keeping my Vertical Crosshair, vertical. 4Certain

You’re comparing apples to oranges.

Also if you’re unable to resolve 2deg of cant with your eye and reticle, you need to re-evaluate your setup and how you perceive level/plumb.

 

[4Certain]

You’re comparing apples to oranges.

Also if you’re unable to resolve 2deg of cant with your eye and reticle, you need to re-evaluate your setup and how you perceive level/plumb.

Sir, Mr. Tubbs was discussing angles and proportions when he made the statement. Proportional Geometry applies to the optics of both. Both Oranges and Apples both have seeds. And the kernel of math does not change. Has nothing to do with the difference of Centerfire and Rimfire. And as I looked thorough the scope and did the checking I was indeed surprised that that small of cant made as big of a difference as it did. And I am sure I need to be more sensitive to scope cant. The increased need for appropriate sensitivity occurs in a number of critical areas.

 

[MDrimfirerookie]

@littlepod - that Terminus / TCS combo is a thing of beauty!

 

[AMTGMC]

Sir, Mr. Tubbs was discussing angles and proportions when he made the statement. Proportional Geometry applies to the optics of both. Both Oranges and Apples both have seeds. And the kernel of math does not change. Has nothing to do with the difference of Centerfire and Rimfire. And as I looked thorough the scope and did the checking I was indeed surprised that that small of cant made as big of a difference as it did. And I am sure I need to be more sensitive to scope cant. The increased need for appropriate sensitivity occurs in a number of critical areas.

For that Engineer in you, might be interesting to put a digital protractor on the side of your rifle and see what 1-5 degrees left and right at 50 and 100 yards looks like on target.
Going left and right will negate wind and other ballistic factors.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Sir, Mr. Tubbs was discussing angles and proportions when he made the statement. Proportional Geometry applies to the optics of both. Both Oranges and Apples both have seeds. And the kernel of math does not change. Has nothing to do with the difference of Centerfire and Rimfire. And as I looked thorough the scope and did the checking I was indeed surprised that that small of cant made as big of a difference as it did. And I am sure I need to be more sensitive to scope cant. The increased need for appropriate sensitivity occurs in a number of critical areas.

Fine dummy. Keep spinning your gears and over analyzing shit to the nth degree. You’re going down the wrong path and attributing what was a combination of things as 2 degrees of cant.

The rest of us will worry about what matters and winning/placing well.

 

[Sixgunjeff]

Ever since I have been shooting Long Range Silhouette at Kettlefoot in Bristol Virginia I have been shooting to the right at the farther targets even with a left wind. After reading this I installed a scope level and set it plum to gravity using a brick on a rope. I shot a match Thursday and my extra left hold was not needed, problem fixed. The turkeys and rams are set on rails that are not level causing me to cant the rifle without realizing it. Thanks for the insight 4Certain.

 

[tonykharper]

Fine dummy. Keep spinning your gears and over analyzing shit to the nth degree. You’re going down the wrong path and attributing what was a combination of things as 2 degrees of cant.

The rest of us will worry about what matters and winning/placing well.

This is an interesting concept. Don't sweat the small stuff just go out and win.

Wonder why it has taken so long for this to catch on?

TKH

 

[4Certain]

Fine dummy. Keep spinning your gears and over analyzing shit to the nth degree. You’re going down the wrong path and attributing what was a combination of things as 2 degrees of cant.

The rest of us will worry about what matters and winning/placing well.

Does this relational style represent the professional decorum approved by the leadership of this forum?

Is this the approved teaching method help new folks grow and improve their skills?

Is this the community that Mike Bush so praised for its openness and willingness to learn?

Sure makes me wonder....

 

[Dthomas3523]

Ok, cleaned up the last few posts. Get back on topic.

Also, don’t be an askhole. When you clearly need advice, don’t be the guy that then attempts to educate people on what you didn’t understand 10 min ago.

 

[JohnTheFisherman]

Ok...we’ll I’ll try to get us back on topic.

anyone get their vudoo ina mpa matrix chassis?
I ordered mine through vudoo as a complete build but was told I only get one grip. Mpa says you get 2 grips and a thumb rest. Should I just order the barreled action and trigger and go direct through MPA for the chassis or do you suppose vudoo was mistaken and get back to me?

 

[Dthomas3523]

Ok...we’ll I’ll try to get us back on topic.

anyone get their vudoo ina mpa matrix chassis?
I ordered mine through vudoo as a complete build but was told I only get one grip. Mpa says you get 2 grips and a thumb rest. Should I just order the barreled action and trigger and go direct through MPA for the chassis or do you suppose vudoo was mistaken and get back to me?

No idea on the grip situation. I’m sure @RAVAGE88 can get that answer.

As far as the matrix, it’s awesome. I have had my centerfire and vudoos in them.

 

[RAVAGE88]

Ok...we’ll I’ll try to get us back on topic.

anyone get their vudoo ina mpa matrix chassis?
I ordered mine through vudoo as a complete build but was told I only get one grip. Mpa says you get 2 grips and a thumb rest. Should I just order the barreled action and trigger and go direct through MPA for the chassis or do you suppose vudoo was mistaken and get back to me?

This would be a question for Greg or Paul, I'm not back in St George until the end of October.

MB

 

[myers129]

Anyone get their vudoo recently and care to share their order date? I’m starting to get excited.

 

[17rupert]

Anyone get their vudoo recently and care to share their order date? I’m starting to get excited.

Not yet!!!, ordered last of June.

 

[rnaylor2]

Ordered mine on June 10th and it arrived last week.

 

[Timberhound]

Ordered May 27th. received email August 10th. it was on the way. May have taken a little longer as I had a special paint order for the chassis. Interestingly I got the shipper notice before Vudoo.

 

[jbonnie]

my two shipping today! Ordered June 23. V excited!!

 

[Tomiboy]

Two! Now that's just greedy. There won't be any left for the rest of us!

 

[jbonnie]

Hah! One is for my boy....

 

[Tomiboy]

Now that is a great dad!