Vudoo V-22S Single Shot BR/F-Class Action

[Travelor]

I called today on my V22s. Greg talked with the Shop Foreman. Mine is awaiting a Shilen barrel. Apparently they only are getting 5 Shilen barrels at a time and my rifle is awaiting the next shipment.

 

[marks_a18138]

Who's tuner is is? I think I'd like to try one. I have a Harrell's at the moment...

I am using a Pro-X tuner. I set it up using their "harmonic method to get me close"

 

[T_Hammer]

Sorry Dude, been quite busy with a few refinements that required lots of time with my head in the CNC Mill. As I believe most are aware, the V-22S ships with a kit consisting of springs rated from 13 to 18 pound force. We noticed in testing that a few very small revisions made a huge difference in ignition, so we couldn't bring ourselves to be satisfied with shipping and not having the revisions be present.

For ignition tuning, I do not condone snipping springs, as it creates other issues, so I'd never recommend such a practice. Instead, knowing what you're working with and relating results to good data allows one to create consistency in an informed approach. What we noticed with the lesser rate springs in our kit created an opportunity to take things a step further, so, I revised models and created programming and the result is a set of revisions that require 13 seconds of machine time. The investment of time and energy are well worth it and it shows in the targets above. For the sake of our advancements, I will not openly share what we've done, so I trust you'll enjoy what you see when you shoot your V-22S.

The flood gates are now open....
MB

Thanks for taking time to sharing the information

 

[Rimfireshooter99]

With my new tuner on, here is a 20 shot group at 50 yards and 14 mph wind with Eley match ammo.

Damn Mark, that's some fine shooting in 14mph winds! A couple of questions. Are you using the spring that shipped with the rifle (16lb) as Mike describes in his posts? Were you doing hold-off for the wind for aiming, or just straight on into the center of the bull?

Also, can you let the folks know where to find the "harmonic" method of setting up the tuner? I'm interested in learning more about the new tuner.

Thanks for sharing, and hang on to your hats boys, this is gonna be a fun ride...

 

[marks_a18138]

Damn Mark, that's some fine shooting in 14mph winds! A couple of questions. Are you using the spring that shipped with the rifle (16lb) as Mike describes in his posts? Were you doing hold-off for the wind for aiming, or just straight on into the center of the bull?

Also, can you let the folks know where to find the "harmonic" method of setting up the tuner? I'm interested in learning more about the new tuner.

Thanks for sharing, and hang on to your hats boys, this is gonna be a fun ride...

I am using the 16lbs spring, zero failures with about 500 rounds down the pipe. That was shot with the best eley match I have and no i didn't hold off but I was watching my flags. I blew a lot of rounds through it watching the flags Sunday. There is definitely an Art to reading those flags and right now I am pretty much at the level of only drawing a stick figure! LOL

 

[10ring1]

With my new tuner on, here is a 20 shot group at 50 yards and 14 mph wind with Eley match ammo.

Incredible!

 

[T_Hammer]

With my new tuner on, here is a 20 shot group at 50 yards and 14 mph wind with Eley match ammo.

 

[T_Hammer]

With my new tuner on, here is a 20 shot group at 50 yards and 14 mph wind with Eley match ammo.

Here is mine 20@50 yds. This build does shoot. 35 degree no tuner

 

[T_Hammer]

Ok and yes I have one at 100 yds ,SK standard

 

[T_Hammer]

Thanks VGW , it was worth the wait, now it’s just working through the winter and the “ COVID ”
To Jill , Paul , Mike and all the team .. thanks

 

[Travelor]

Guys, I don't shoot lapua presently, so help me understand these two terms:

Midas Plus soft
Midas Plus hard

 

[AUMan]

Guys, I don't shoot lapua presently, so help me understand these two terms:

Midas Plus soft
Midas Plus hard

That has to do with how I was holding the rifle. Not the ammo.

 

[Travelor]

Thanks

 

[RAVAGE88]

Thanks VGW , it was worth the wait, now it’s just working through the winter and the “ COVID ”
To Jill , Paul , Mike and all the team .. thanks

You're quite welcome Sir, reach out anytime if you need anything....

MB

 

[Rimfireshooter99]

Here is mine 20@50 yds. This build does shoot. 35 degree no tuner

T_Ham, can you measure the spread and let us know the group size, CTC?

Thanks!

 

[GTI]

Which stocks did you guys order with your rifles, the EDGE or KESTROS. Jill says I still have a little time to change my order. I'm not one to lay my cheek heavily on the buttstock...

Thanks,

Bill

 

[Ozark Shooter]

Which stocks did you guys order with your rifles, the EDGE or KESTROS. Jill says I still have a little time to change my order. I'm not one to lay my cheek heavily on the buttstock...

Thanks,

Bill

I'd suggest that you base your stock choice on the discipline you intend to shoot. The two McMillan stocks that VGW is building on are a great way to explain the difference.

The Kestros stock is generally preferred by F-Class shooters who shoot prone from a bipod and a rear bag.

The McMillan Edge would be favored by benchrest shooters who typically shoot from a one-piece rest in unlimited class and a two-piece rest for classes like the "Hot Rod" Factory in Bullet Pro 150.

Also realize that there are a lot of other stock choices that are available from other manufacturers or builders. I'd bet if you've got a favorite the folks at VGW would be happy to build on your spec.

Hope this helps ...

 

[Tim7139]

I am using the 16lbs spring, zero failures with about 500 rounds down the pipe. That was shot with the best eley match I have and no i didn't hold off but I was watching my flags. I blew a lot of rounds through it watching the flags Sunday. There is definitely an Art to reading those flags and right now I am pretty much at the level of only drawing a stick figure! LOL

Try this as well IMO. There a lot of spring theories but this is one worth trying, remember, you want ignition reliable with, ideally, zero additional post ignition resonance.
First go to the light spring and try it. If you get the rare FTF that’s not an absolute deal breaker, shoot some cards with it to see....shoot several targets. see if the gun shoots “ flatter”.
If it will not work, go back to the 16lb but take 1-1 1/2 coils off, but finish it carefully and make sure it is dead flat on the end.......same tests.
Remember, springs are cheap, worst case is you buy another relatively cheap one, but it pays to try a few variations because every barreled action has a bit of it’s own personality.
you have not much to lose, few boxes of ammo, some time.

This is something a good custom smith might do, a good competitor/ end user as well With a top flight BR gun.

 

[RAVAGE88]

Try this as well IMO. There a lot of spring theories but this is one worth trying, remember, you want ignition reliable with, ideally, zero additional post ignition resonance.
First go to the light spring and try it. If you get the rare FTF that’s not an absolute deal breaker, shoot some cards with it to see....shoot several targets. see if the gun shoots “ flatter”.
If it will not work, go back to the 16lb but take 1-1 1/2 coils off, but finish it carefully and make sure it is dead flat on the end.......same tests.
Remember, springs are cheap, worst case is you buy another relatively cheap one, but it pays to try a few variations because every barreled action has a bit of it’s own personality.
you have not much to lose, few boxes of ammo, some time.

This is something a good custom smith might do, a good competitor/ end user as well With a top flight BR gun.

Timothy,
I agree with everything you're saying, but I'm not sure that you're aware the kit has 13, 14, 15, 16 and 18 lbf springs. So, @marks_a18138, definitely go to the 13 lbf spring as @Tim7139 recommended and if you get a rare FTF, bump up to the 14 and try it again. Please do not cut coils as it causes other issues....

MB

 

[Tim7139]

I'd suggest that you base your stock choice on the discipline you intend to shoot. The two McMillan stocks that VGW is building on are a great way to explain the difference.

The Kestros stock is generally preferred by F-Class shooters who shoot prone from a bipod and a rear bag.

The McMillan Edge would be favored by benchrest shooters who typically shoot from a one-piece rest in unlimited class and a two-piece rest for classes like the "Hot Rod" Factory in Bullet Pro 150.

Also realize that there are a lot of other stock choices that are available from other manufacturers or builders. I'd bet if you've got a favorite the folks at VGW would be happy to build on your spec.

Hope this helps ...

The Edge was produced initially with two piece bag rests in mind at about the same time as the one piece rests for ARA, PSL, etc., the point being it is designed with free recoil type BR shooting as primary mission.

 

[Tim7139]

Timothy,
I agree with everything you're saying, but I'm not sure that you're aware the kit has 13, 14, 15, 16 and 18 lbf springs. So, @marks_a18138, definitely go to the 13 lbf spring as @Tim7139 recommended and if you get a rare FTF, bump up to the 14 and try it again. Please do not cut coils as it causes other issues....

MB

Mike,
I am aware, and you are to be applauded for offering a comprehensive selection.
It has and can be done if done carefully but you are the MFR so my thought is to consider 1/2 steps as well.
You are probably correct, as must guys are probably somewhat ham fisted in this regard.
thanks for the update.

 

[T_Hammer]

Timothy,
I agree with everything you're saying, but I'm not sure that you're aware the kit has 13, 14, 15, 16 and 18 lbf springs. So, @marks_a18138, definitely go to the 13 lbf spring as @Tim7139 recommended and if you get a rare FTF, bump up to the 14 and try it again. Please do not cut coils as it causes other issues....

MB

Mike , did you mean a 17 lbf spring not a 18 ?

 

[RAVAGE88]

Mike,
I am aware, and you are to be applauded for offering a comprehensive selection.
It has and can be done if done carefully but you are the MFR so my thought is to consider 1/2 steps as well.
You are probably correct, as must guys are probably somewhat ham fisted in this regard.
thanks for the update.

Thanks Tim....spring specs are an interesting thing....

MB

 

[RAVAGE88]

Mike , did you mean a 17 lbf spring not a 18 ?

No sir, I skipped 17.

MB

 

[T_Hammer]

No sir, I skipped 17.

MB

So the package is wrong.. sorry

 

[10ring1]

Ok and yes I have one at 100 yds ,SK standard

If that's SK standard at 100, I can't wait to see what top shelf ammo is going to do!

 

[RAVAGE88]

So the package is wrong.. sorry

Sorry, Grey is 18....I'll fix that.

MB

 

[Tim7139]

Thanks Tim....spring specs are an interesting thing....

MB

They sure as hell are.
I used to have extensive talks with a Canadian spring engineer that posted on another forum, this guy was good.
I was trying to get him to make some FP custom springs (expensive) but he got divorced, moved and disappeared to my regret.

 

[JimTN]

I called Vudoo and was told my rifle should be released next week. It is a complete rifle in a McMillan Edge stock.

Total price $2840.

Travelor;

Would you mind posting exactly what you ordered on your rifle??

TIA
Jim

 

[T_Hammer]

They sure as hell are.
I used to have extensive talks with a Canadian spring engineer that posted on another forum, this guy was good.
I was trying to get him to make some FP custom springs (expensive) but he got divorced, moved and disappeared to my regret.

Sorry, Grey is 18....I'll fix that.

MB

thanks I will change it on the bag.

 

[T_Hammer]

They sure as hell are.
I used to have extensive talks with a Canadian spring engineer that posted on another forum, this guy was good.
I was trying to get him to make some FP custom springs (expensive) but he got divorced, moved and disappeared to my regret.

David Tubb made some firing pin springs at one time have look at his stuff.

 

[T_Hammer]

Timothy,
I agree with everything you're saying, but I'm not sure that you're aware the kit has 13, 14, 15, 16 and 18 lbf springs. So, @marks_a18138, definitely go to the 13 lbf spring as @Tim7139 recommended and if you get a rare FTF, bump up to the 14 and try it again. Please do not cut coils as it causes other issues....

MB

Mike when you do the video on the bolt break down could give us some ideas on when or why you change spring some thing a a 500 foot level . Just another rabbit hole but I love learning about this. Thanks

 

[BillOH]

I used to get revolver spring kits from a guy who used cyrogenics to get a lighter trigger pull with the same power. I don't know if it would apply here.

 

[HuskerP7M8]

They sure as hell are.
I used to have extensive talks with a Canadian spring engineer that posted on another forum, this guy was good.
I was trying to get him to make some FP custom springs (expensive) but he got divorced, moved and disappeared to my regret.

Hey Tim,

I also visited with Emmery a few time and there isn't anyone I've talked to in decades who had the knowledge he had in engineering springs and explaining how they should and need to work for our applications. He reminded me of "Vibe" who disappeared quite a few yeas ago for personal reasons and was someone I also visited with for his expertise in all matters concerning physics that might be applicable in my testing over the years.

They may have not passed on, but we're diminished by their absence and I miss them and many others.

Landy

 

[Tim7139]

Only

David Tubb made some firing pin springs at one time have look at his stuff.

Only thing I ever saw was CF.

 

[Tim7139]

Hey Tim,

I also visited with Emmery a few time and there isn't anyone I've talked to in decades who had the knowledge he had in engineering springs and explaining how they should and need to work for our applications. He reminded me of "Vibe" who disappeared quite a few yeas ago for personal reasons and was someone I also visited with for his expertise in all matters concerning physics that might be applicable in my testing over the years.

They may have not passed on, but we're diminished by their absence and I miss them and many others.

Landy

Yep, that was him. The guy was damn sharp.
He was in lower Ontario and I wanted to drive up if he would make some for me but he simply evaporated .
I remember Vibe as well....big positive compensation guy as I recall.
Jeez, does this mean I’m getting old?

 

[T_Hammer]

If that's SK standard at 100, I can't wait to see what top shelf ammo is going to do!

It’s not always about Top Shelf ammo,
I feed it a lot of different ammo that day . Some high dollar to budget I’m not going to go into everyone I did 3 cleaning and about 300 to 400 hundred rounds. I cleaned before the range and bore scoped before and after.
Pretty please with things.. thanks VGW you got you stuff together, I’m thinking about slugging the barrel tonight .
I would shoot at lest 10 rounds per box 3 or 4 to season and the other to see if they would track most of the time they would do “minute of squirrel” but some would be touching and even clover leafing , but the SK would be stacking so I took it that the favorite that day for weather 40 degrees dampness in the air not best weather but I was going to do some real world testing , I didn’t think Mike and team only made this for sunny and 65 to 70 degree days. I do plan to get out when it’s below zero also.

I was looking for practice ammo for glass and trigger time that doesn’t cost me also what I could shot a card with or groups with a 50 or 100 if I was looking to challenge myself. I will go to 200 and 300 yards also . The long range ammo that I been using that runs above 1200 fps , the V22S wasn’t real happy with . But it did run it ,

My bench mark is my 1960 52C which alway shot for me not matter what I feed it . It my throw one off but most of the times it’s me , how do I know it’s me will I would shot 2 more shots and most times they fall into other hole , so now look at the shooter and fire one more and back to line point of aim the shot would go , could have been rear bag..to much cheek.. trigger pull.. but I worked it out it wasn’t the ammo or the rifle it was the one behind the trigger. Ok wind and stuff are allowed but you should be able to tell that.

So way spent this type of money on V22S , the 52C was made as real world trainer very little after market things and hard to find parts look for 5 or 10 round magazine or a single shot adapter or pic rail for model scope .I wanted something I could work with a model chassis or stock and trigger and stuff , I have some grandkids that I will be starting to shot with if things don’t get to crazy.

Weather looks good for this weekend so I’m going to get back out again, the only problem my Sightron Siii 10 by 50 was in a shop accident so I shopping for a replacement, so for right now I’m using my March fixed 40 power.
Not sure why I’m writing all this but people want to know what we are finding as we get out with this new VGW creation.

So if you can “ Get out and shot “

Thanks All

 

[Travelor]

Tim my order is for a right bolt left port Shilen ratchet barrel, 90 degree sear, Flavio 90 degree trigger, pillar bedding, and a McMillan Edge Stock painted.

 

[T_Hammer]

Tim my order is for a right bolt left port Shilen ratchet barrel, 90 degree sear, Flavio 90 degree trigger, pillar bedding, and a McMillan Edge Stock painted.

You going to love it , what barrel length

 

[Travelor]

Tim, barrel length will be governed by where the "tight" spot, but I have asked for the longest. According to their website that would be 24".

 

[RAVAGE88]

Mike when you do the video on the bolt break down could give us some ideas on when or why you change spring some thing a a 500 foot level . Just another rabbit hole but I love learning about this. Thanks

Yessir, I'm all set to do the video on the 9th and will include a bit of extra detail.

Just for some general info (and I'll include this dialogue in the video), the important thing to note is the springs in the kit are an engineered part of the fire control system (no different than our repeaters, but next level). Frankly, the kit is one of the couple reasons we held shipping because there was something I didn't like, so a small revision was made to bring everything into the realm of providing what we say we provide. We work very hard at controlling the variables because doing so is the essence of consistency, and as many of you know, there are lots of variables in rimfire. We don't like guessing and we won't BS anyone into believing what's not true. We also won't haphazardly approach something (like snipping off coils) that we ask top dollar for when this community deserves our very best.

MB

 

[Sgeorge]

Quick question, how does the new Flavio trigger attach to the receiver. Thanks

 

[RAVAGE88]

Quick question, how does the new Flavio trigger attach to the receiver. Thanks

By way of the typical pinned interface used in the Rem700 style triggers....no trigger hanger.

MB

 

[T_Hammer]

Yessir, I'm all set to do the video on the 9th and will include a bit of extra detail.

Just for some general info (and I'll include this dialogue in the video), the important thing to note is the springs in the kit are an engineered part of the fire control system (no different than our repeaters, but next level). Frankly, the kit is one of the couple reasons we held shipping because there was something I didn't like, so a small revision was made to bring everything into the realm of providing what we say we provide. We work very hard at controlling the variables because doing so is the essence of consistency, and as many of you know, there are lots of variables in rimfire. We don't like guessing and we won't BS anyone into believing what's not true. We also won't haphazardly approach something (like snipping off coils) that we ask top dollar for when this community deserves our very best.

MB

Thanks Mike , To much has be lost over time by gate keepers that never pass on knowledge. With the way thing are happening young people are not getting in the art of smithing , part of the reason I put my money with VGW because I listen to you on YouTube and believe you had something special . So keep it up and try to bring us along so we can bring other into a better shooting experience.
22LR isn’t for plinking anymore !

 

[GTI]

Tim my order is for a right bolt left port Shilen ratchet barrel, 90 degree sear, Flavio 90 degree trigger, pillar bedding, and a McMillan Edge Stock painted.

And mine is just the opposite! GOOD CHOICE

 

[GTI]

Thanks Mike , To much has be lost over time by gate keepers that never pass on knowledge. With the way thing are happening young people are not getting in the art of smithing , part of the reason I put my money with VGW because I listen to you on YouTube and believe you had something special . So keep it up and try to bring us along so we can bring other into a better shooting experience.
22LR isn’t for plinking anymore !

Couldn't agree more!
I've been a serious shooter since I retired from the railroad in '08. I've been exposed to and learned more on this forum regarding precision shooting in the past 2 weeks than I have in the past 12 years! What a great time of life this is for me I must say! This is an entirely new level. So glad I found this place! Can't wait to get my gun! I even found a 50yd INDOOR range in the area!!

 

[ELR researcher]

Oh well, since seems few folks here shoot ARA unlimited, or have failed to notice the configuration of their blue stock image closely, I'll note that the Edge version of the McMillan stock Vudoo is depicting is NOT the one that is typically used for ARA benchrest. Please see all the stocks on the Killough/KSS site. ALL the McMillans are "Straightline Edge" - see the embedded pic on each product page. ALL the other brands of benchrest stocks shown on that site also use the same buttstock. design. [If you don't know KSS, very high probability you do not shoot ARA benchrest.] Suffice it to say, this was brought to Vudoo's attention, repeatedly, months ago. KSS' benchrest stock page - https://www.killoughshootingsports.com/136-benchrest-rifle-stocks If you are planning on shooting ARA benchrest - or any discipline where the standard Edge's angled buttstock is not a requirement, consider asking Vudoo to provide it instead. Sorry, Mike, I just keep seeing people going the (IMHO) "wrong" way.

 

[GTI]

Oh well, since seems few folks here shoot ARA unlimited, or have failed to notice the configuration of their blue stock image closely, I'll note that the Edge version of the McMillan stock Vudoo is depicting is NOT the one that is typically used for ARA benchrest. Please see all the stocks on the Killough/KSS site. ALL the McMillans are "Straightline Edge" - see the embedded pic on each product page. ALL the other brands of benchrest stocks shown on that site also use the same buttstock. design. [If you don't know KSS, very high probability you do not shoot ARA benchrest.] Suffice it to say, this was brought to Vudoo's attention, repeatedly, months ago. KSS' benchrest stock page - https://www.killoughshootingsports.com/136-benchrest-rifle-stocks If you are planning on shooting ARA benchrest - or any discipline where the standard Edge's angled buttstock is not a requirement, consider asking Vudoo to provide it instead. Sorry, Mike, I just keep seeing people going the (IMHO) "wrong" way.

I just sent a note off to Jill asking to change my order AGAIN to the Straightline EDGE

 

[marks_a18138]

Oh well, since seems few folks here shoot ARA unlimited, or have failed to notice the configuration of their blue stock image closely, I'll note that the Edge version of the McMillan stock Vudoo is depicting is NOT the one that is typically used for ARA benchrest. Please see all the stocks on the Killough/KSS site. ALL the McMillans are "Straightline Edge" - see the embedded pic on each product page. ALL the other brands of benchrest stocks shown on that site also use the same buttstock. design. [If you don't know KSS, very high probability you do not shoot ARA benchrest.] Suffice it to say, this was brought to Vudoo's attention, repeatedly, months ago. KSS' benchrest stock page - https://www.killoughshootingsports.com/136-benchrest-rifle-stocks If you are planning on shooting ARA benchrest - or any discipline where the standard Edge's angled buttstock is not a requirement, consider asking Vudoo to provide it instead. Sorry, Mike, I just keep seeing people going the (IMHO) "wrong" way.

If you are only shooting BR off a one piece rest I would definitely suggest straight line stock, but if you are shooting a game like smallbore f-class using a bag or even shooting factory hotrod in Bullet Pro 150 with a 2 piece rest the angled stocks will work just fine.

 

[GTI]

I would think that a parallel forend and buttstock would work better regardless, no?