Walnut Stock- Strong/Durable

[Mattrmvpd]

I have a Winchester PRE 64 that has a very nice Walnut Stock... could be oak but i was told it was walnut.

I am curious on the durabilty of the wood stocks compared to the more modern kevlar/composites.

Is there anything that can be done to help the wood stock be more durable as a every day truck gun?

just curious... i kno these stocks have been around for decades on the old 64's... but was just wondering if there is anything special some of you do to help protect them.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Don't put a stock made of recycled styrofoam peanuts on that rifle!

That walnut stock is perfectly good! Want to do a stock made of old soda bottles, get a post-64 Win action and some nice snipery re-processed bondo stock and have fun. But try shooting that rifle with its original stock (walnut, oak is utterly un-suitable for rifle stocks) and you will see that there is a reason that close-grained walnut has been the choice for stocks for generations. Bet that rifle out-shoots a lot of injection-molded-Monogram Model Kit stocks... just like it is.

Post pictures. Most of us here in Vintage have a real Jones for pre-64 Model 70's.

Cheers,

Sirhr

P.S. There was a .30-06 Pre 64 at the gun show this past weekend with a crappy Bushnell scope on it... just a nice, honest deer rifle. But the guy wanted <$500 for it. I am kicking myself for not buying it, but I have a whole bunch of pre-64's. But damn that is a lot of rifle for less than a crummy Savage. BTW, one of my favorite deer rifles is a pre-64 .243 featherweight Supergrade. It's not supposed to exist... but it does! Cheers, Sirhr

 

[Mattrmvpd]

Thanks for the post. I will get pics up when my other gets in this week. I will post pictures of both of my Pre 64's.

 

[pmclaine]

Walnut?

Wont last.

This one from the early 50s is beat.... [IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i1005.photobucket.com\/albums\/af178\/pmclaine\/PC117205_zpszj28lyp8.jpg"}[/IMG2]


1950s top. 1940s bottom. Kindling. [IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i1005.photobucket.com\/albums\/af178\/pmclaine\/PA297138_zps8m7eco8e.jpg"}[/IMG2]


1930s, [IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i1005.photobucket.com\/albums\/af178\/pmclaine\/PA167113_zpsrc5go1tk.jpg"}[/IMG2]
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[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i1005.photobucket.com\/albums\/af178\/pmclaine\/P8187019_zpscdlphb5p.jpg"}[/IMG2]
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Something newer [IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i1005.photobucket.com\/albums\/af178\/pmclaine\/P8046956_zpsv8agsi44.jpg"}[/IMG2]
[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i1005.photobucket.com\/albums\/af178\/pmclaine\/P5076871_zpszduyu5wi.jpg"}[/IMG2]


One from 1943 [IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i1005.photobucket.com\/albums\/af178\/pmclaine\/P8305935_zps87b53b02.jpg"}[/IMG2]
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Sorry, I love pictures....

Walnut will serve you just fine. I use Real Milk Paint Pure Tung Oil to preserve mine and I have been accused of perhaps experiencing unnatural pleasure when rubbing it on. I plan on doing a pre WWII, new old stock, 1903 C stock in Linseed oil to try and attain that nice early red color the military walnut turned. I have another Remington M40 stock I want to build into a .223 M40.

Im not a fan of coating wood in brush on poly, liquid plastic. Its better for protecting from the elements but with hand rubbed oil any scratches, bruises or scars - a touch of oil and some handrubbing all is good again.

I do leave walnut at home in favor of fiberglass and plastic on the most rainy days but my old guns never got that break back in the day and they have come through just fine.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

^^^ Nice bunch of termite magnets there PM... you sure you don't want to just get some of them John Paster Ultimate Sniper fiberglass stocks and avoid all the headaches

Actually, I have one of those stocks on a Varmint rifle that DID have a problematic stock. A 700 ADL Varmint I bought new c. 1989. The Choate stock, while ugly, heavy and stupid looking did cure the humidity problems. I should have fiberglass bedded it... but the Choate stock was cheap and easy at the time. And it's just my woodchuck gun.

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[pmclaine]

If conditions require I have some alternatives to wood....




although I haven't fell into the latest in ergonomics I did accept a space age material - fiberglass.

and if conditions get real ugly there are lots of options in this flavor

short range


medium range


Functional but they lack a soul.

 

[Ledzep]

Only made it 119 years so far.

It will last. Depends on what finish is on it (varnish, lacquer, oil).. Most of the old military stuff is an oil finish of some sort, and rubbing the stocks down every few months with a rag and boiled linseed oil keeps the wood from drying out and cracking. Some older commercial stuff have oil finishes, too.

Wood responds to humidity and temp more than modern composites. No getting around it unless you glue in an aluminum mini-chassis or something. It's not the end of the world, though. Typically doesn't cause huge shifts.

 

[pmclaine]

Only made it 119 years so far.

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/img.photobucket.com\/albums\/v257\/Erkorene\/krag_zpsypsanpoz.jpg"}[/IMG2]

It will last. Depends on what finish is on it (varnish, lacquer, oil).. Most of the old military stuff is an oil finish of some sort, and rubbing the stocks down every few months with a rag and boiled linseed oil keeps the wood from drying out and cracking. Some older commercial stuff have oil finishes, too.

Wood responds to humidity and temp more than modern composites. No getting around it unless you glue in an aluminum mini-chassis or something. It's not the end of the world, though. Typically doesn't cause huge shifts.

Nice musket! My local shop has a Kraig carbine and I almost jumped on it. Its one of the NRA versions, a cut down rifle, with a 1903 sight installed up front. I understand the shoot real soft. The bolt run like they are ice on ice. Nice gun but I don't need another caliber.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

NICE Krag! I wish I had bought several when they were $50 up here... in the 1980's. So many got destroyed to make crappy deer rifles. Amazing gun!

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[Old Soldier]

What you really need to do is sell me that old piece of crap for enough to get you a good Ruger American. I've used a pre 64 in 06 for a moose gun for the last dozen years or so. The last 3 years it seemed to either rain or snow each of the 20 days I was in camp. I hunt rain or shine. Each night before I bag it, I touch her up with WD-40 on the steel and Linseed on the stock. She will out last me my Son and my Grandson. Good Luck with your find.

 

[kraigWY]

Soldiers have been beating on other soldiers with wood (walnut) stocks for hundreds of years.

Not to mention its sacrilegious to put a plastic stock on a Pre-64 or any other Model 70, and its illegal, or should be.

 

[sandwarrior]

Beautiful pics guys!

So, the real question herre is, "What's wrong with walnut?" You asked if it was durable and strong. It is durable and strong enough to last centuries. There is a problem with it though. Like all wood stocks they warp to varying degrees when humidity changes a lot. This does not deter from their strength or durability, but it does affect your point of impact each time you take the rifle out. Consequently, it is standard practice in the military to re-zero a precision rifle before each mission where it is intended to be used.

Those crafty Germans came up with a plan that not only conserved walnut, it made the stock more stable. The laminate stock. The glue holds the moisture out better than straight oil on wood. And, 1/8" wide strips don't warp as bad as 2" wide forends and butts. You can therefore, also use smaller pieces of wood, that would have had to be discarded.

Here in America, our military skipped the laminate phase in favor of fiberglass composite, as shown by pmclaines beautiful examples of the M40A1. We found the original M40 warped like a sumbitch between rainy and dry seasons in Viet Nam.. The rifle would still shoot the required accuracy, it just didn't do it in the same place. The 1903's had the same problem as well as the M1A4 Garands. The U.S. didn't want to mess with wood anymore militarily. Between WWII and now, we've come a long way with laminate stocks in the civilian side.

So, in short, unless you have an already modified pre-'64 Model 70 Winchester, don't go throwing some pos stock on there for beating around the bush. Then again, if you want to take care of your pre-'64 stock and not beat it up in the bush, put a decent B&C or Choate stock on there. You can also get decent laminates today. If the stock already has some "personality", leave it on there. It will still serve you well. Unless of course, this is your basis of a precision rifle. Then put a good composite on there. But, like sirhr said, get a push feed post-'63, they are a lot easier to deal with in that regard.

 

[usmcchet9296]

Wood sucks ..it has no character
M40 by John Hermesmeyer, on Flickr

sidebyside by John Hermesmeyer, on Flickr

1858 Remington Carbine(8) by John Hermesmeyer, on Flickr

CZ452V (4) by John Hermesmeyer, on Flickr

IMG_0163 by John Hermesmeyer, on Flickr

IMG_7318 by John Hermesmeyer, on Flickr

M1Garand (3) by John Hermesmeyer, on Flickr

M1903A3 (2) by John Hermesmeyer, on Flickr

 

[buffalowinter]

Really...which is prettier

This

or this

or even this

 

[pmclaine]

Really...which is prettier

This

or this

or even this

Tell me whats the weather doing before I give my answer.

 

[buffalowinter]

Oh, and USMCChet9296...I have a revolving carbine...I use it for CMSA Mounted Shooting competition
[video=youtube_share;-chzTfLcV-c]https://youtu.be/-chzTfLcV-c[/video]

 

[pmclaine]

Oh, and USMCChet9296...I have a revolving carbine...I use it for CMSA Mounted Shooting competition
[video=youtube_share;-chzTfLcV-c]https://youtu.be/-chzTfLcV-c[/video]

What are you shooting wax bullets or some such?

I thought getting hit by a foul ball at a baseball game could be risky....

 

[buffalowinter]

We shoot .45LC black powder blanks...the only thing leaving the muzzle is hot gas. If you are more than 20 feet away, you won't break the balloon. Makes it challenging as you really have to have the horse in the correct position at all times. And these horses are going full out...it's like driving a racing car with bad brakes, bad steering, and a mind of its own.
[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i.imgur.com\/OoW4qwIm.jpg"}[/IMG2]

 

[pmclaine]

We shoot .45LC black powder blanks...the only thing leaving the muzzle is hot gas. If you are more than 20 feet away, you won't break the balloon. Makes it challenging as you really have to have the horse in the correct position at all times. And these horses are going full out...it's like driving a racing car with bad brakes, bad steering, and a mind of its own.
[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i.imgur.com\/OoW4qwIm.jpg"}[/IMG2]

That video is impressive. Great skills sir! I imagine the music pumped you up a little bit also.

 

[sandwarrior]

You know there is another wood that you should go to, and that is curly maple. It's light and pretty unlike that dark nasty walnut with no character. It has little curly-cues that are so much prettier than anything walnit ever was. AAA Claro, who cares,. French, English, fine Turkish Circasian? So what. They are all too dark and not exquisite enough to belong on rifles:

 

[sandwarrior]

I just love it when the vintage forums become show-and-tells

 

[Quarter Horse]

Wood and blued steel are a world of their own. I appreciate the utility of the materials, finishes and construction used for precision rifles but for years my interest focused on SxS shotguns. Part of that world is understanding the properties of various types of walnut and why they are best suited for various types firearms applications. The reason walnut is used is that it is best suited for firearms applications. Walnut has a balance of strength to weight, workability with tools, stability after proper aging, grain structure, availability and beauty that make it best suited for gunstocks.

Forgive me for rambling but I love this stuff. Most of the walnut we see on U.S. sporting and martial firearms is Juglans Nigra. This is not generally considered to be the ideal species which is Juglans Regia. Nevertheless, it is strong, stable and examples have outlasted anybody alive today. My MS computer is down and I am on my wife's Apple. Consequently I can't post pictures. If I could you would see a Dickson best hammer gun with wood that, after almost a century and a half, is still perfectly fitted to it's metal and so beautifully figured that it would melt your heart.

 

[ktaylor]

I love seeing pictures of my stocks in this thread!

 

[Blueoval56]

Walnut seems to work pretty decent for me,

I have a few composite rifles as well like a Sako TRG, which I love, but it just doesn't have the same soul that walnut and blued steel does.