Want to get a AR style 308 and have some questions

[TDT]

Hi - I'm really new to AR's in general, only have a LMT 16" piston as my first AR with a Trijicon 3.5x TA11F-G on top but would like something with better terminal velocity and accuracy like .308 and decent scope provides for. So many options maybe y'all can help so I have a baseline where to start looking.

I like the AR platform so I want to stick with that.

- Would like accurate
- 18-20" barrel
- on the lighter side
- ambi controls preferred (bolt catch, mag release, etc)
- 20 RD Pmag ready (I read some AR 308's don't take them?)

I read a review of a LMT MWS and it's 13+ lbs. Way too heavy to lug around IMO. I like lightweight firearms in general. I'm a big dude but still carry a Benelli Ultra Light when bird hunting all day. Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

Edit - Also Any comments on Remington R25 would be appreciated - I saw one for $1100 and it's only 9 lbs.

 

[JSTARSZ]

Re: Want to get a AR style 308 and have some questions

first off welcome to the Hide - there is lots of information on this topic. One thing that helped me when I started here is this link: Search Tool

I have two semi 308's - One is a GAP SASS (18" barrel) and the other is a DPMS 308 AP4 - 16" barrel. I use the AP4 for hunting as it is a M4 in a 308 body. It packs a lot of punch in a small body.

The Remington R25 is a good platform as it is a DPMS platform and built by the same people but camo'ed. Cerberus, their parent company, owns Bushmaster, DPMS, Remington, and Marlin.

Pretty much any of the 308 platforms all duded up will be in the 12-13 pound range. Heck, most of my AR's with all of their stuff on them (optic, light, ammo) go in the 9# range so it is isn't that much more that we are talking to get the 308 round. The situation that you have to look our for is what platform is in on - DPMS or Armalite - they use different magazines.

You can also look at the 6.8mm round depending on what you want to do with the rifle. I personally hunt with my 6.8mm and with scope it weighs in at 9#'s. Just food for thought.

Good luck in your search.

 

[TDT]

Re: Want to get a AR style 308 and have some questions

Thanks and Thank you for the welcome. Yeah mass is a PITA with AR15 too, I sent off my barrel to ADCO and had it turned to reduce it... too front heavy... I guess I could buy the LMT MWS, turn barrel, cut 2-3" off hand guard, ditch the BUIS, etc to get mass down...

Is 16" enough to get full velocity out of 308?

 

[JSTARSZ]

Re: Want to get a AR style 308 and have some questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TDT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is 16" enough to get full velocity out of 308?</div></div>
not sure full velocity is the right wording. I am more then sure you can take a 16" out to 800 with no problem and others have gone to a 1000 with it. The owner of this site has a video on here discussing a 16" 308 semi (POF 308).

You won't get as much velocity as a 22" barrel but velocity is not everything as I can be as accurate at 2500 fps as I am at 2700 fps. The only difference is when it loses its supersonic flight.

A LMT MWS I hear is a nice weapon but I don't have one but there are reviews on here. One nice thing about AR's is if you don't like your barrel length - change it.

I am a small guy and carry one with no issue. I use a Vikings Tactics sling and it carries well. When I am carrying the rifle I don't really feel the weight. And, where I hunt, it is in the hills of Virginia so I am constantly up and down and the weight is no issue.

 

[Strangedays]

Re: Want to get a AR style 308 and have some questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSTARSZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TDT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is 16" enough to get full velocity out of 308?</div></div>
not sure full velocity is the right wording. I am more then sure you can take a 16" out to 800 with no problem and others have gone to a 1000 with it. The owner of this site has a video on here discussing a 16" 308 semi (POF 308).

You won't get as much velocity as a 22" barrel but velocity is not everything as I can be as accurate at 2500 fps as I am at 2700 fps. The only difference is when it loses its supersonic flight.

A LMT MWS I hear is a nice weapon but I don't have one but there are reviews on here. One nice thing about AR's is if you don't like your barrel length - change it.

I am a small guy and carry one with no issue. I use a Vikings Tactics sling and it carries well. When I am carrying the rifle I don't really feel the weight. And, where I hunt, it is in the hills of Virginia so I am constantly up and down and the weight is no issue. </div></div>
Do you have the link of frank shooting the steel? I thought he was shooting an 18" barrel from what I remembered.

 

[ORD]

Re: Want to get a AR style 308 and have some questions

Barrel length has little to do with accuracy...but it has a lot to do with max range (and of course...MV). Depending on the ammo you want to run from your rifle, a 16" barrel will perform extremely well at extended ranges and still have the terminal ballistics to take some North American game animals. I think the vid of Frank ringing steel was with him shooting the POF P-308 with a 16.5" barrel. I run 155gr Lapua Scenars out of my shorter barreled 308 rifles for longer ranges to make up some of the ground lost in velocity you get with the heavier, 175gr bullets. They are hell at long range and I also run 168gr Barnes TTSX hunting bullets with them for WV whitetail that have yet to let me down.

As to your particular build/rifle wants:

1) Define what you mean by "Would like accurate"? (do you mean sub-MOA, MOA, 1.5MOA??)

2) Use of unmodified LR-20 PMAGs limits you to the KAC/DPMS pattern rifles, which includes DPMS, Remington R-25, POF, KAC, LWRC, LMT, Fulton Armory, JP, etc. (More or less...any 308 semi-auto on the market save Armalite, but they can be modified to work in the Armalite pattern rifles).

3) As for ambi-ctrls...don't get too caught up on this as a factory feature. There are numerous companies making ambi selectors. Ambi bolt releases and mag releases are in the works, but the AR-15 stuff on the market doesn't work well.

4) As for the R-25...they are DPMS rifles through and through rebranded by Remington. I have found them to be acceptable rifles both in terms of function and accuracy with quality ammo/shooter (MOA or better capable) and they meet most of the criteria listed on your OP except for ambi ctrls. When comparing weights on 308 AR type rifles don't get too caught up on the mfg listed weights because they are almost always sans mag/ammo/rings/mounts/options/anything else. Depending on your finalized setup, you can expect to add at least 2-3lbs min to the base number.

 

[JSTARSZ]

Re: Want to get a AR style 308 and have some questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: strangedays</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TDT</div><div class="ubbcode-body"></div></div>
Do you have the link of frank shooting the steel? I thought he was shooting an 18" barrel from what I remembered. </div></div>

POF

I believe this is it and I think it was a 16" POF

 

[AXEMAN]

Re: Want to get a AR style 308 and have some questions

i still need a BCG for the one pictured in the signature but with a full 20 rnd Pmag, its 12.75 pounds. thats with the 1-4x but no sling as of yet.

 

[TDT]

Re: Want to get a AR style 308 and have some questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ORD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Barrel length has little to do with accuracy...but it has a lot to do with max range (and of course...MV). Depending on the ammo you want to run from your rifle, a 16" barrel will perform extremely well at extended ranges and still have the terminal ballistics to take some North American game animals. I think the vid of Frank ringing steel was with him shooting the POF P-308 with a 16.5" barrel. I run 155gr Lapua Scenars out of my shorter barreled 308 rifles for longer ranges to make up some of the ground lost in velocity you get with the heavier, 175gr bullets. They are hell at long range and I also run 168gr Barnes TTSX hunting bullets with them for WV whitetail that have yet to let me down.

As to your particular build/rifle wants:

1) Define what you mean by "Would like accurate"? (do you mean sub-MOA, MOA, 1.5MOA??)

2) Use of unmodified LR-20 PMAGs limits you to the KAC/DPMS pattern rifles, which includes DPMS, Remington R-25, POF, KAC, LWRC, LMT, Fulton Armory, JP, etc. (More or less...any 308 semi-auto on the market save Armalite, but they can be modified to work in the Armalite pattern rifles).

3) As for ambi-ctrls...don't get too caught up on this as a factory feature. There are numerous companies making ambi selectors. Ambi bolt releases and mag releases are in the works, but the AR-15 stuff on the market doesn't work well.

4) As for the R-25...they are DPMS rifles through and through rebranded by Remington. I have found them to be acceptable rifles both in terms of function and accuracy with quality ammo/shooter (MOA or better capable) and they meet most of the criteria listed on your OP except for ambi ctrls. When comparing weights on 308 AR type rifles don't get too caught up on the mfg listed weights because they are almost always sans mag/ammo/rings/mounts/options/anything else. Depending on your finalized setup, you can expect to add at least 2-3lbs min to the base number. </div></div>

Thanks pointed me in right direction for sure on models to look at.

1. I'd like to be able to hit shoulders of a deer/hog at ~500 yards. I'm not sure what MOA that is...I plan to use a accupoint 2.5x10 type of scope off my remington 270 win bolt gun after I sell it which does do this.

2. Thanks - I've been checking out the suggestions and names you posted... hard to beat $20 mags and want to be sure to have a rifle that takes them without issue.

3. Cool..did not know you could get after market ambi stuff. I shoot both left and right.. Im left eye dominate and right handed..in other words confused.

4. So what do you get spending 2x as much for a POF/LMT over DPMS/Remington or 4x as much in a KAC? I won't be spending $4500 on a rifle but the POF/LMT route is doable.

 

[TDT]

Re: Want to get a AR style 308 and have some questions

I was just reading this article on 308 and they said 20" is all you need as longer barrels are infinatesmal changes in velocity . And 18" only loses 32 fps to 20". They did not cover 16" unfortunatly though.

 

[ORD]

Re: Want to get a AR style 308 and have some questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TDT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks pointed me in right direction for sure on models to look at.

1. I'd like to be able to hit shoulders of a deer/hog at ~500 yards. I'm not sure what MOA that is...I plan to use a accupoint 2.5x10 type of scope off my remington 270 win bolt gun after I sell it which does do this.

2. Thanks - I've been checking out the suggestions and names you posted... hard to beat $20 mags and want to be sure to have a rifle that takes them without issue.

3. Cool..did not know you could get after market ambi stuff. I shoot both left and right.. Im left eye dominate and right handed..in other words confused.

4. So what do you get spending 2x as much for a POF/LMT over DPMS/Remington or 4x as much in a KAC? I won't be spending $4500 on a rifle but the POF/LMT route is doable.

</div></div>

1) MOA = Minute of Angle. 1 MOA accuracy equates to a 1.047" at 100yds...2.1" at 200yds...and so on. So at roughly 500yds, a rifle that is capable of MOA accuracy should be able to hold approximately 5" groups (or so). That equates to more than adequate accuracy for a kill-zone shot on the game you are interested in taking assuming that you are able to equal the level of accuracy that your rifle is capable of.

2) I run the LR20 PMAGs in my POF and DPMS rifles with zero problems. They are extremely well-made, reliable, durable mags that are typical of Magpul's quality. They also work better than other mags for the platform that I have tried, including DPMS factory mags and C-Products. MidwestPX, a site sponsor here, is also making a blocked/cut-down version of the LR20 for limiting capacity which is required by many state for use while hunting (5-round max).

3) There are several companies that do ambi controls, but the newest (and arguably one of the best options right now) is a company called Battle Arms Development...see here: http://www.battlearmsdevelopment.com/badass.php

4) The POF is my go-to rifle now for a semi-auto 308. It is utterly reliable and very accurate. Mine is getting solid 3/4 MOA accuracy and getting closer to 1/2 MOA with some of my reloads (it probably would get solid 1/2 MOA if the shooter was a little better). The POF rifles use high quality Rock 5R barrels which account for at least some of the high degree of accuracy achievable with the POF. It is also an excellent rifle if you have a suppressor or plan to get one down the road. Because of the adjustable gas system and piston drive, they run much smoother and much cleaner than similar DI gas system rifles like the DPMS, etc. You also get a better trigger, 100% ambi controls, DPMS/KAC mag compatibility, a monolithic rail for mounting optics, on and on and on. POF is also a great company to work with. They have a lot of folks that participate on this site and are always trying to provide pre- and post-sale service to customers. I could go on...but to make a long story short...they are an excellent company building some of the best rifles in the industry right now! Here is a link to their site if you want to read more on their rifles, the results that they (and others) are obtaining with them, etc.: http://www.pof-usa.com/main.htm

 

[TDT]

Re: Want to get a AR style 308 and have some questions

Wow thanks lots of good info! POF is is then. Seems to have everything I'm after including 20" barrel. I can cut it later if I feel it's too long which is way cheaper than buying a new barrel. Any good vendors you suggest for POF?

Will I be able to paint rifle with it's teflon coating? One thing I like about the Remington is it comes cammo and would like MAX4 or something on POF. They offer a black one and a silver N3 coated one on lower/upper... Which is the way to go here?

 

[ORD]

Re: Want to get a AR style 308 and have some questions

The NP3 coated POF rifles have a matte grayish/bronzish finish. I don't know about putting any sort of coating on over top of NP3...because it is so "slick" I don't know how well it would adhere (I'm betting not well). If you have any plans of coating your rifle, I'd go with the plain black anodized finish (the internals of the rifle are still NP3 coated).

Rainier Arms has them for $2499 and they are in stock ready for immediate shipment. http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=1875

I'm not sure who else has them available right now with no wait (these rifles can take a little time to get if you have to order direct), but check out GunBroker as there are usually some available from stocking dealers and you may be able to find a deal from somewhere like AV Guns in Florida, etc.

 

[jakermeister]

Re: Want to get a AR style 308 and have some questions

If its just deers your after why not go with a 243 or 260? Its a bit flatter shooting than the 308.

You can get either in the AR10 platform.

 

[dangerdan87]

Re: Want to get a AR style 308 and have some questions

I built my own .308 AR.

Video:
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[greentimber]

Re: Want to get a AR style 308 and have some questions

Good looking rifle Dan. Specs?

 

[dangerdan87]

Re: Want to get a AR style 308 and have some questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: greentimber</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good looking rifle Dan. Specs? </div></div>
SPECS:

Upper:
- SI Defense GEN II upper (really tight specs, had to lap the charging handle to slide freely)
- BCM Gunfighter 7.62 Mod 4 charging handle
- Noveske 7.62 16" bbl w/ KAC style dimples and Cerakoted graphite black (Armalite carbine length gas tube)
- KAC SR-25 URX rifle length
- KAC taupe handguards (stippled)
- KAC micro 2-600m BUIS
- Surefire compensator
- DPMS chrome BCG

Lower:
- POF-USA P-308 lower
- Geissele SSA trigger
- KAC rear sling mount endplate
- LMT buffer tube
- "SLASH" XH .308 buffer w/ modified Armalite spring
- Magpul MIAD FDE
- Magpul ACS FDE
- LMT ambi slector (right side milled)

I applied the Cerakote (FDE and graphite black) myself.