Range Report Warner Tool Flat Line Projectile 122gr 6.5 Variant

[Lowlight]

Warner Tool Flat Line Projectile 122gr 6.5 Solids


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22.75” Bartlein Barrel with 1-8.5 Twist chambered in 6.5CM spun up in a stock Accuracy International AX308 shooting the 122gr Flat Line Projectile. [IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/www.snipershide.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/03\/SH_HD_122Flatline-1-2-640x427.jpg"}[/IMG2] 122gr Flat Line Projectile AX Rifle
1250 yards - 8 Mils

1440 yards - 10 Mils

1778 yards - 14.6 Mils

Do I have your attention yet ?

The more we explore the more we see how the little things can stack up. To many, the choice in the bullets they use can be a simple one. Cheapest, a specific weight, manufacturer, these short answers tell the story. As I noted, 2017 is truly the year of the bullet. As technology trickles down, the bullet is becoming a tipping point. Not just in the solid projectile market, better jacketed bullets are being released each month. Although Warner Tool has made 2017 the year of the Flat Line Projectile.

See if this sounds familiar, you pick a bullet, maybe by weight based on your twist rate, then by manufacturer. You do your very best to load it so you have the smallest possible SD. Maybe you’re annealing the brass, checking the consistency of the bullet weight, invest in the most expensive powder trickler you can suffer. You put in a ton of effort, trimming, sorting, weighing, and measuring, all to squeeze that extra 1/4” out of the group. Could be it’s not enough, we are still subject to the most mass produced, least controlled item out of the entire system. The Bullet…

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/www.snipershide.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/03\/SH_HD_122Flatline-1-4-640x427.jpg"}[/IMG2] 122gr Flatline Projectile
How many times have we seen recalls for lots of bullets ? The multi part manufacturing process is not infallible, thin jackets, inferior lead, melting tips, the microscopic nature of ballistics will exploit any flaw in the process. We tend to blame other components to our system, but we are starting to see the limitations the bullets put on us. Most people have no means to explore a bullet problem, but they definitely exist.

Enter the Monolithic Projectile.

This is the only way to make sure each bullet is always the same, using a lathe turned solid. But not all solids are created equal, the materials, designs, and twist rates required separates the good from the bad. I have seen solids do some amazing shooting, and I have seen them never reach the target regardless of how hard we tried.

My history with solids is a long one, I have gone to great lengths to work with them, even using custom made barrels that would not work with anything else. There are certain things I look for, the twist rate necessary, the material used, and of course, the cost. You have to expect at certain amount of latitude when it comes to the cost of solids. The price is not right for everyone, especially when we can stay within our Error Budget using factory ammo. But we can certainly get our monies worth when we want to jump to the next level. Welcome to the Next Level - Flat Line Projectile

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/www.snipershide.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/03\/SH_HD_122Flatline-1-640x427.jpg"}[/IMG2] 122gr Warner Tool Flat Line Projectile
Warner Tools understands solid bullets. They answer all my questions the right way,

• No Special Twist Rate
• Copper Material that can Interact with Jacketed Bullets
• 1 Piece Design
• Not over doing the weight

This is what we are seeing with the Flat Line Projectiles. We can interchange the Flat Line Projectile with any jacketed bullet without ill effect. You don’t need a special twist rate, most standard twists work within the class. This allows the design, materials, and weight to reach a higher speed. They are not going too heavy, instead letting speed rule the day. Most try to go too heavy which is a mistake. Heavier works but only if you can reach a minimum speed, I get floating them out there, but when the conditions turn sour, that slow moving bullet is not gonna give you the right response. Going to slow effects the BC too. Speed Wins the Day…

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/www.snipershide.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/03\/SH_HD_122Flatline-1-5-640x427.jpg"}[/IMG2] Small SD Numbers were found in every load
The Argument for the 122gr Flat Line Projectile right now over a heavier bullet is the speed. 3100fps is very easy to reach. A mild load with H4350 was over 2900fps, still respectable, and probably a good load for a gas gun, but when you can go over 3100fps, things change. You start to exploit the benefits of using a Flat Line Projectile.

I am not an anal retentive reloader. I think what turned me off, besides the time involved, or the money needed to reduce that time, is the idea of people doing endless load development. Early on, when the matches were spinning up heavy and Sniper’s Hide was a bigger part of that, you’d have members that could never attend a match because of “Load Development”. Seems you read more about the guys fiddling with their load trying to squeeze every millimeter out of it vs taking the time to go out and enjoy shooting. That bothered me, and might have turned me off to the process a bit. But for a solid, or a new bullet I no problem jumping in with both feet. The consistency of the Flat Line Projectile made it easy.

Prior to starting Josh Kunz of Patriot Valley Arms fed me some starting data. I knew most were using H4350 for their 6.5s. Josh recommended 43gr of Varget, and after visiting Mile High Shooting to pick up some fresh Varget, Adam @MHSA offered up some IMR 4166 to try out. The Load

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/www.snipershide.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/03\/SH_HD_122Flatline-1-10-640x427.jpg"}[/IMG2] Easy to Load with Great downrange results
In order to establish a starting point I used all three powders with some once fired Prime Ammo Brass. I full length sized the brass and cleaned it up. Cleaned up the necks and prepared to drop each.

• 43gr of Varget
• 41.5gr of 4166
• 44gr of H4350
• OAL - 2.820” for each
• FED GM210M Primers

With only 25 rounds of 100 loaded, I headed out to the range to give each load a try. Each load was shot over a MagnetoSpeed Chronograph alongside a LabRadar at the same time.

43gr Varget

• 3147fps
• SD 8.8fps
• Accuracy 1.25” @ 100 yards

44gr H4350

• 2918fps
• SD 8.0fps
• Accuracy 3/4” @ 100 yards

41.5gr 4166

• 3104fps
• SD 6.5fps
• Accuracy 1/2” @ 100 yards

I also took the remaining rounds to 800 yards in order to gauge the potential drop at distance.

Average Mils used was 4.0 Mils with a casual zero. I zeroed the rifle with Prime 130gr 6.5CM the handholds were within an inch of center so I just held the difference.

The easy answer rather than play with seating depth was to go with the IMR 4166 load. Based on the initial speed, accuracy and low Standard Deviation, it was the best way to get up and running without using any more of the bullets. So I loaded up 65 of the remaining 75 rounds. Long Range Laboratory

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/www.snipershide.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/03\/IMG_2739-640x480.jpg"}[/IMG2] 1 Mile Target - We scored 4 out of 5 hits using 14.6 mils
Condition:

Barometric Pressure: 25.24

Temperatures: Start 64 degrees, End 80 degrees

Humidity: 25%

Density Altitude: 6000 to 6500ft

Altitude of Range: 4500ft

Wind 3 to 5 MPH

Direction of Fire: 290

Latitude: 39

Rifle used Accuracy International AX308 (small firing pin)

22.75” Bartlein Barrel

1-8.5 Twist

Scope: S&B 3-20x Ultra Short zeroed at 100 yards

LabRadar was used to gather dope in order to have more data.

300 yards - .7

400 yards - 1.2

500 yards - 1.8

600 yards - 2.5

800 yards - 4.2

1000 yards - 6.0

1250 yards - 8.0

1440 yards - 10.0

1500 yards - 10.8

1600 yards - 12.0

1778 yards - 14.6 Mils

These were actual impacts on target. We measured an increased Muzzle Velocity of 3122fps with the load. Giving us an SD of 12.5fps across all the shots recorded. Winds were light, switching back and forth from behind and right at 3-5MPH.

This is our baseline for determining the BC for the bullet. Originally we were told Warner Tool had their bullets measured over Doppler. I know this to be true because I was in on that effort. The measured BC was around .635, which is what I used for my TRY DOPE numbers. This was my basic starting point to get me in the ballpark.

Using this BC and the MV of 3100fps, I was going over most of the targets and had to use the data above vs what JBM gave me. Spotting alone can be tough when you drop over the top of target, especially beyond 1000 yards. Lucky for me it has been dry, and I was able to pick up the splash and adjust. Wind was really a Non-Issue, I only used 1.5 Mils at 1 Mile. Better BCs

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/www.snipershide.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/03\/IMG_4002-640x480.jpg"}[/IMG2] recorded dope for the 122gr Bullet
Using the condition above, which are very favorable to long range shooting, we measured the BC for our shots to be .670 G1. I used G1 and the numbers are lining up perfect. I did attempt to get a G7 number and what I came up with is .335 G7. That should work perfect given my conditions.

BCs are subject to the speed and conditions, as well as the rifle used. So this BC is uniquely mine. I believe the Doppler data to be based on a speed of 2900fps. It’s a great starting point, G1 = .635 to .650. It can depend on your system.

The Flatline Projectile BC often comes into question, but let me assure you, the numbers published by Warner Tool are within 2% of your results at the given average speed. No doubt your results will vary, they will not be off by much. You want to determine your own BC based on your system. By matching the BC used in a ballistic computer to your system the end results will be more accurate. But the numbers for the Flat Line Projectiles have been very good.

I know the 30 cal bullets were tested, as well as this 6.5 Flatline. So you have a Doppler determined numbers which will be updated shortly.

My range is laid out and measured via the most expensive Vectronix Laser Range Finder available. We have calibrated wind flags, as well, our experience at this range must be taken into account too. It gives us a great way to measure the values used. These numbers are solid, you can take them to the bank. My trial numbers all went over the targets, and I used .650 as a G1 BC to start me off. The Benefits of Monolithic Solids

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/www.snipershide.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/03\/Screenshot-2017-03-23-11.21.01-404x640.png"}[/IMG2] JBM Dope Chart with .670 BC
In all honesty, Solid Bullet are not for everyone. They are for those who want an edge over the next guy. Furthermore they are there to push the envelope. The problem with most solids are the designs, and materials. They can be finicky to load, and often require an aggressive twist range. Consider this, I have a 338 solid that uses a gain twist barrel of 13-5.4, you can’t even use a jacketed bullet behind it. By the same token, with brass based solids you have to almost dedicate the rifle to just shooting those bullets. Those you see that are a gold color have a high brass content and don’t mix well with jacketed bullets. You have to clean the barrel completely when moving between a solid and jacketed bullet. This extra effort combined with the higher cost make them less popular.

Solids done right, like the Flatline Projectiles, work in your standard rifles and can be mixed. This is important. The design is not so aggressive as to require a unique twist rate, so you can fill them in between your standard loads. I zeroed with Prime Ammo, and then shot the Flatline Bullets. Where do I see the 122gr Flat Line Projectile fitting in,

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/www.snipershide.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/03\/SH_HD_122Flatline-1-11-640x427.jpg"}[/IMG2] 41.5gr of IMR 4166
This is an easy question because it does more than you might realize? For sure the competition shooter, the smaller bullet going faster is gonna help you in a PRS type competition. The Speed will not only help with positional shooting, it’s pretty close to what guys are seeing with the 6mm. Over 3100fps with a 122gr bullet you balance that speed with better wind drift vs the much lighter 105. As well if the match has targets beyond 1000 yards you are at a definite advantage.

Into ELR Distances, if you want to explore shooting targets beyond 1000, 1250 yards, etc, here you can do it without needing to invest in a big expensive magnum. The investment in the Flatline Projectile is all you need. If you are traveling to a location that has targets beyond 1000, you are still viable. Supersonic flight for me is beyond 2000 yards. At least 2150 yards, if you are at sea level you are supersonic to 1900 yards. Your 6.5 chambered rifle is now easily 1 mile capable. I hit 4 out of 5 shots at 1778 yards using 14.6 mils. That is insane.

Extend the capability of a gas gun. This bullet like the 160gr .30 Cal Flatline will work in a semi auto. I think the 2900fps load is about perfect to run in a gasser. This will push this rifle to the next level especially if you want to compete with it.

6.5x47 chambering, where this can certainly shine. I find the 6.5x47 to be very good, but most people opt for the 6mm variant, because it fixes the speed problem. Normally with the heavier high bc bullets, the 6.5x47x is slower than it's more common counterparts. The Warner Tool Flat Line Projectile can get you the speed with a super high BC out of a 122gr bullet. This projectile in a 6.5x47 would be deadly across the board. You'll not only gain that lost 50fps you'll add to it. Conclusions - 6.5 Flat Line Projectile

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/www.snipershide.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/03\/IMG_0297-640x480.jpg"}[/IMG2] 122gr Warner Tool Flat Line Projectile
I am super impressed with what Warner Tool and Josh Kunz is doing with the Flat Line Projectile line. They are embracing the technology, have hit on a great design, and are using materials that don’t require you to clean the rifle when switching loads.

Warner Tool Company is well established and is supporting the Flat Line Projectile with data, load information, and supply.

What this did to my 22” AX is nothing short of amazing. I read an article about the 6.5CM replacing the 300WM. Using the right bullet, it’s very easy to see. I know the Facebook crowd like to bag on the 6.5CM but it’s a very good round. It’s accurate, well supported with inexpensive factory match ammo, and it’s being included by most of the big manufacturers. I also understand the price puts this bullet out of the reach for a lot of people. But this is not designed for plinking, you have to put it in the context for it is designed. Precision Rifle shooting is not cheap, this is for guys who understand that and want an edge.

The nice thing, you can shoot a course of fire using standard, jacketed bullets inside 800 yards and then switch to Flatline Solids for every thing beyond. If you determine the difference you can easily do it, and most Ballistic Apps will adjust for the offsets. Zeroing with 130gr Prime 6.5CM ammo, the Flatline was within an Inch. I can work with that.

To illustrate my point, take the Ruger Precision Rifle crowd. For example, the ability to accurately shoot your Ruger Precision Rifle to 1 mile, opens the door for people to understand the skill level necessary to engage targets beyond 1000 yards. Because it’s supersonic it’s not a fight when it comes to wind. It’s predictable in the wind. Sure floating certain rounds into the subsonic region can work, but it’s a less predictable. We want to stay within supersonic flight and at 1778 yards I was still going 1390fps, truly the year of the bullet.

Use Caution when Handloading the numbers I am using may not work in your rifles.

Give Warner Tool a Call Directly as they have the bullets in Stock but the website will not be 100% updated until after this posts.

Warner Tool Company

201 Old Homestead Hwy.

N. Swanzey, NH 03431

603-352-9521

[email protected]

For Links Hit:


Warner Tool Website

Patriot Valley Arms

Exterior Ballistics Sniper's Hide

Ballistic Solvers on Sniper's Hide

Sniper's Hide Reloading Section

JBM Ballistics

 

[Dan Warner]

A very big thank you to Frank for another awesome review. Our website is brand new, and the 6.5 is in the process of being added. It should be there in the next few hours, if not tomorrow morning. If you'd like to place an order before the website catches up, please give us a call or email us. Prices are $62.40 for a box of 50, $574.08 for 500

You can now order them on our website: https://warner-tool.com/collections/flat-line-projectiles/products/6-5-mm-121gr

 

[Timo Turl]

What does 2.82 COL translate to in terms of jump ? Guessing they aren't sensitive but just curious how far off the lands that puts them ?

 

[Lowlight]

What does 2.82 COL translate to in terms of jump ? Guessing they aren't sensitive but just curious how far off the lands that puts them ?

I have no idea to be honest, that is a pretty new barrel and I just spun it on right before the review. I have no insight on this part, but I can say, these bullets are not picky at all

I probably should have gone shorter, but it worked the out of the gate and I ran with it.

Full disclosure, I had misplaced my Seating Depth Gauge in a move and I never replaced it.

 

[NovaHunter]

Great info. Very interesting bullets.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[lash]

I just got hooked on the .338 Warner Flatlines and now, here's a chance to viably shoot my .260 out past a mile. It's both awesome and devastating to my wallet at the same time. What's amazing is that these could shoot almost the same dope as my .338 LM at 1 mile. And both would have plenty of speed left to get out to 2000+, even at almost sea level Florida.

 

[AIAW]

Glad to see the numbers on this, and the results of the IMR 4166 we were all talking about in the other thread! Awesome stuff. I definitely want to try some of these in my 260 soon.

 

[Dan Warner]

Just in case folks are reading from the bottom of the thread, these are now live on our website:

https://warner-tool.com/collections/flat-line-projectiles/products/6-5-mm-121gr

 

[Timo Turl]

I have no idea to be honest, that is a pretty new barrel and I just spun it on right before the review. I have no insight on this part, but I can say, these bullets are not picky at all

I probably should have gone shorter, but it worked the out of the gate and I ran with it.

Full disclosure, I had misplaced my Seating Depth Gauge in a move and I never replaced it.

Thanks. You seriously aren't OCD

Game changer ! Thx

 

[Lowlight]

Actually i took an online OCD test and scored 100% lol, just not ocd when it comes to reloading.

Regarding tbose 4166 results, lol ya no good hitting 4 out of 5 at a mile

 

[steve123]

Yes that review is exciting. 6.5 Saum, maybe 3400 fps, crazy!

 

[Bacarrat]

Yes that review is exciting. 6.5 Saum, maybe 3400 fps, crazy!

I would love to see this!

Any kind of speed limit on the lathe turn bullets?

 

[Scarface26]

This is awesome!! Makes me feel like an even bigger fool for building the 300WM. Watch the PX or PM me, gents.

Question: How does a regular dose of these (say 20%) affect barrel life? (Assuming that you're pushing them over 3100FPS like Frank).

Same question, but for the .308 - since I might do a switch-barrel rig once I unload some stuff.

Awesome shooting - 4 out of 5 at a mile using only 20X magnification. Rock on, and thanks, Frank.

God bless America

 

[jbailey]

I would love to see this!

Any kind of speed limit on the lathe turn bullets?

In theory, a solid can be driven at a much faster twist because there is no jacket to separate from the lead core.

 

[jbailey]

This is awesome!! Makes me feel like an even bigger fool for building the 300WM. Watch the PX or PM me, gents.

The guys at Warner can help you with your 300WM too... they have a 198gr 30cal that absolutely dominates - 0.8+ G1 BC and you could drive it at 3100fps w/o problem. You just need the twist. At least 9, 8 better.

 

[the_accuser]

Awesome write up!! Any chance you'll do a similar test with your Tikka T3x project gun?

 

[Lowlight]

the Tikka is in getting a barrel change from the guys at Mile High Shooting

 

[littlehendrick]

Awesome to see. I enjoy the fact you are not super crazy on reloading, as shooting is the purpose versus shrinking the group that last 1/10".

Can't wait to see someone put this in a 6.5 SAUM.

 

[Supersubes]

Thanks for the info!

 

[Qazwsx]

What alloy are these made from? Would it make sense to use heavier alloys with the same bullet profile for even greater bc's?

From what I remember in the litz book, using speed to try and overcome wind drift became an exercise in diminishing returns.

I understand these bullet profiles increase the bc at a lighter weight so you're getting the best of both worlds, but is heavier possible?

 

[jbailey]

What alloy are these made from? Would it make sense to use heavier alloys with the same bullet profile for even greater bc's?

I asked the question on the alloy.

Actual mix is proprietary, but its overwhelmingly Copper, well into the high 90%. I don't know if there is some small amount zinc in there (making it brass) or tin/aluminium (making it bronze), but for working purposes, its copper. This is what makes it friendly with jacketed bullets. In addition to making it barrel friendly, its easier to machine.

Many of the past solids had too much zinc, screwing up the barrel. Because copper, zinc and tin are all essentially same molecular weight, there is no impact to density from changing the alloy mix. You could drive the costs down but it will mess your barrel up.

So the short answer is, copper is the best material, at the center of the current cost and performance considerations.

 

[devldogs55]

Wow, this is really impressive. I fall into the category where this is beyond what my needs are... but I always love seeing impressive innovations like this!

 

[Lowlight]

What alloy are these made from? Would it make sense to use heavier alloys with the same bullet profile for even greater bc's?

From what I remember in the litz book, using speed to try and overcome wind drift became an exercise in diminishing returns.

I understand these bullet profiles increase the bc at a lighter weight so you're getting the best of both worlds, but is heavier possible?

They are not just using speed they are using design as well,

The alloys need to work within the context of your barrel and twist rate. Most solids use a heavy brass content and you can ONLY shoot those out of the barrel. They do not mix with copper jacketed bullets and any material in the barrel, either copper or brass alloy has to be removed before shooting one or the other. If you read the article I explained the benefit of having a solid that can interact with jacketed bullets. This is important, and why I support these efforts.

Other solids that don't interact well or try to go too heavy never survive beyond the niche market.

The copper content is right here in this case, and you don't have to opt for heavier all the time. Diminishing returns on speed... where at 2000 yards ? I am sure Bryan was talking in the context of 1000 yards and in with his books. You need speed that is what helps establishes the BC as much as weight.

The elements needed are:

Shape
Area
Mass
Velocity

Clearly velocity and mass are here together, if we look at Shape, Area, and Velocity we have taken care of 3 out of the 5, all that is left is mass and air density.

The numbers don't lie, the supersonic nature of these bullets speak for themselves. The idea you need to go heavier will only skew the twist rate to something non-standard.

I am sure they can make a heavier bullet, but out of the gate it's unnecessary, heavier will probably mean longer.

 

[Sheldon N]

Very interesting option for PRS competitors using a 6.5 platform. Work up a load to complement your existing match load for the long range stages at a competition. Bring maybe 50 loaded rounds to the match with you. When it comes time to shoot a 1000 yard plus stage, load up your mag with some flatline rounds, adjust your settings in your ballistic calculator for the new load and go to town. Way flatter trajectory, arrives on target with 25% more energy, and realistically you see a 0.5 mil or 20% reduction in wind holds in a 10mph breeze.

Figure the cost difference between Bergers and these is about $0.80 per round, so we're not talking about much money per match if you just shoot a couple stages with them.

 

[Hondo64d]

Frank,

Been thinking about optimal powders for this bullet in the x47 or Creed. Thinking that something with burn rates similar to 4350 but more dense would be the ticket. Thinking 414/760 or Big Game might be just right.

John

 

[Scarface26]

The guys at Warner can help you with your 300WM too... they have a 198gr 30cal that absolutely dominates - 0.8+ G1 BC and you could drive it at 3100fps w/o problem. You just need the twist. At least 9, 8 better.

Alas,

I built it with a 10 twist. I'll shoot it till the barrel's done and then re-investigate. Thanks for the tip.

Does the speed at which these solids are run have an adverse effect on barrel life as opposed to traditional bullets? Assuming pressure is equal.

Thanks

God bless America

 

[Longshot85]

Great write up and info Frank

Hats off to Josh and WTC for developing this

These literally may keep people from having to build a new rig just to shoot past 1500 accurately

 

[Jeffvn]

I pretty sure Flat Line is not even considering a potential shift in bullet material to increase the relative mass and keep the same designs. If they stay with the current material, then Frank is correct. Making a Flat Line heavier means making it longer, which in turn means a faster twist is required. So far the Flat Line bullets have been aimed at the majority of the rifle markets, with some limited exceptions (the 155.5 30 cal is for Palma, the 162 30 cal. is for magazine feeding from a .308) even these bullets are designed to be used from a standard twist in that area. They are great pills, and they have shot pretty darn good to great in my rifles.

Jeffvn

 

[jbailey]

As these solids get more popular, it will be interesting to see if they are welcome at matches. I know of a few that have said "no solids" - Spring '16 ASC for example (308 only match)... and some F-class matches have rules against. Other MDs have initially said no but then changed their minds after testing them on their steel. For example, Q Creek ELR match was 'no solids' last year but Scott Scatterlee changed his mind this year after testing them.

A 300 WM throwing the 198 at 3200fps speed limit has a lot of KE at 100yds ...

 

[KWilson]

A very big thank you to Frank for another awesome review. Our website is brand new, and the 6.5 is in the process of being added. It should be there in the next few hours, if not tomorrow morning. If you'd like to place an order before the website catches up, please give us a call or email us. Prices are $62.40 for a box of 50, $574.08 for 500

You can now order them on our website: https://warner-tool.com/collections/flat-line-projectiles/products/6-5-mm-121gr

Any plans to ship these to Australia?

 

[Dan Warner]

There have been some conversations with a few folks from Australia about importing, but nothing has come together as of yet. I know a couple of them frequent this forum, so perhaps this will help move things forward.

 

[Timo Turl]

There have been some conversations with a few folks from Australia about importing, but nothing has come together as of yet. I know a couple of them frequent this forum, so perhaps this will help move things forward.

And the UK please

 

[KWilson]

There have been some conversations with a few folks from Australia about importing, but nothing has come together as of yet. I know a couple of them frequent this forum, so perhaps this will help move things forward.

I think a few folks here would be hesitant in regards to pricing. Berger, Hornady and Nosler are reasonably priced over here, but Lapua and Sierra are almost $1 per bullet for a 6mm 105gr. There would be a few shooters here prepared to shell out the coin though. Otherwise Reloading International could be a good option for you to distribute to in order for international sales to occur.

 

[Dan Warner]

We have pointed several folks already third part exporters, including Reloading Intl, as a means to export small quantities to the individual, and we are happy to continue doing so, until such time where we have direct export.
As to the costs, we can point back to the same conversation that has been right here on the Hide since we started making these bullets; how much are you willing to pay for a 20% gain in performance? We know they are not for plinking or even short range, but matches are won and lost at the longs. Why not give yourself the edge? You've already spent thousands on the rifle, optics/sights, gear, travel and accommodations to get to the shooting event. What is that 20% gain worth to you?

 

[acourvil]

When I run the loads listed above through Quickload, the Varget and 4166 loads look very hot, well above the recommended max pressure. Were there any pressure signs? Did these shoot like hot loads?

Is there any other load information available for these bullets?

 

[Dan Warner]

Quick Load is a different animal when it comes to solids and especially the Flat Lines. It is notorious for over estimating pressure and under estimating velocity. This is a safety issue and I understand why they did that. But unless you manipulate the start pressure and weight of the bullet, you will not get accurate numbers with quick load and Flat Line bullets. This is the main reason I will not share our bullet file as of yet, because I don't want folks to be mis-lead. And if you are hesitant to believe this faux about QL, I offer you this. Take a load we (Frank or I or any other shooter here) have reported to be using behind the Flat Lines and enter it in QL just purely based on the actual numbers. It will tell you every time that you are way over safe pressure. We know that this is untrue because primers are not being blown, there is no sticky bolt lift. Hence, that load that QL said was over the top is perfectly safe in the real world application. What's the reason for this? I don't know for sure, but I think there are a few reasons for it. One is that start pressure. QL defaults to a really high number with solids, higher than that of jacketed pills. I don't have proof of what the Flat Lines really have for a start pressure value, but I use roughly half to a third of the jacketed bullet default. Two is the weight/bearing surface/coefficient of friction properties. QL takes nothing into directly account for the coefficient of friction. It does include bearing surface length in the bullet file, but it is not enough. Thus, we can get there by lying to the master, so to speak, by reducing the weight by about 20%. Now that we have done this, we get numbers that are much more in line with real world practices. Again, if you don't believe it, take a load already proven to be safe and try this yourself and you will see. The fact that it generates load data with the appropriate powders (faster than those for jacketed bullets) is further proof.

I have avoided putting this out there because of the panic it might cause, but I am happy to share what we know. It goes back to what we have been saying since we started making these: You need to forget/throw away/burn or destroy most of the jacketed bullet principals that we are all so comfortable with because they simply do not apply to solids! Once you can digest the fact that one needs faster powder with these than you would with the same weight jacketed bullet and that what might seem to be over pressure is not, then you are on your way to Flat Line success. All of the above is exactly why I do not publish load data on a forum, but am happy to supply what I believe to be good starting data via QL directly to you once I know your cartridge & barrel length.

 

[Jeffvn]

Dan is correct about QL and the Flat Lines. You need to do a couple of things before the system will give you anything close to a realistic answer. Reduce the weight of the bullet, turn on molly / barrel friction reduction (40%), and get yourself a faster powder then you might normally consider, you can also manually reduce the start pressure.

Jeffvn

 

[acourvil]

Thanks, that all makes sense. I know quickload isn't perfect, and can give unrealistic results in some cases, and I did have to make some significant assumptions when inputting data. It would be very helpful to get some real world load data with min/max for common powders.

 

[Dan Warner]

Like I said before, send me your cartridge and barrel length details, and I'll send you a recipe chart.

 

[Dan Warner]

Let me take a second to address inventory. These are moving out the door quite rapidly, so we are a couple of days behind on shipments. I have just added more inventory to the online store, so get them while they are hot. They won't last long, but don't worry, we're making more all day long.

 

[blacknwhite11]

Is there a recommended amount of jump for these projectiles? The start load data thatIi received for .260 remington seemed to be way off. I ask about the jump because thats the only big difference, I was loading the rounds a lot longer than the 2.83 coal. I also wasn't getting near the speed out of my .260 as one might expect. I'm going to continue to work on the load, only shot 8 rounds today.

 

[Dan Warner]

So most folks want to mag feed when it comes to a 260, so that is where i start by default. And since i have no way to know what your lead and freebore measure, i have to start somewhere. But by all means, load em long; more room for powder. What powder are you using? It is possible that i made a mistake with the data, but it should be pretty close.

 

[blacknwhite11]

I sent you a pm dan but for everyone else

savage 12 lrp
260 remington
26in barrel
lapua brass
cci br primer
.030 off the lands
41gr of varget

blew the primer out on the first shot

EDIT: the 41gr of varget mentioned above registered 3099fps on labradar

 

[Dan Warner]

So it seems I was a little over the top on a couple of my starting load charts. I will review and update the QL data sheets as soon as possible and re-send. My apologies to all for this oversight.

 

[Walker TR]

Dan,

Does the bullet require any special seating die or can you use just the standard IE (Redding, Lee). I thought I noticed on your website it stated it requires a certain seating stem. Thanks

 

[blacknwhite11]

Walker, if you do a search I believe this was been covered in a little more detail, but my redding premium dies work perfectly fine.

 

[Dan Warner]

Please read Here:

https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...08-flat-line-seating-requirements-please-read

 

[Dan Warner]

I sent you a pm dan but for everyone else

savage 12 lrp
260 remington
26in barrel
lapua brass
cci br primer
.030 off the lands
41gr of varget

blew the primer out on the first shot

EDIT: the 41gr of varget mentioned above registered 3099fps on labradar

I have looked over the numbers and am awaiting for a 2nd expert opinion, but nothing I see shows that you should be anywhere near pressure with those loads. I've run them a few times and cannot see numbers that come even close to pressure. I am wondering if there isn't something else going on with your setup, like an exceptionally tight bore or neck. Another question is how many firings are on the brass; ie is it possible that the primer pockets are getting loose? I'm drawing straws in the dark there since I cannot see your setup, but it certainly seems that something is a miss because the load doesn't seem to account for the blown primer according to QL.

 

[Jeffvn]

I just ran QL, most recent update,w/ the 122 Flat Line loaded into a .260 with 41 gr. of Varget (since you didn't offer a COAL, I used 2.90" (55K) and then 2.83" (58K); you didn't state the case capacity for your brass - so I used default of 53.5 gr H2O). My stated velocities were over 3,100 fps. w/ 26" tube. Neither result should pop a primer.

If I dial case capacity down to 52.0, pressure jumps to 62K+ (when loaded to 2.830"), but that shouldn't blow primers... no bueno on the brass, but primers should still be there unless they are on their last loading or two before being too loose to hold a primer.

I'm inclined to think like Dan there is something else going on here... no idea what it is.

Jeffvn

 

[blacknwhite11]

The whole deal has me scratching my head as well, I'm going to hold of loading anymore rounds until there is some more published data. I'm patiently waiting to see what others get as far as speed, pressure, and results.