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Re: Weaver FFP tactical scope
I don't see those magnification ranges anywhere on Weaver's web site. Got a link?
I don't see those magnification ranges anywhere on Weaver's web site. Got a link?
Re: Weaver FFP tactical scope
I suspect not. The specifications on all of Weaver's current tactical scopes are 1/4 or 1/8, and those adjustments are stated to be in inches at 100 yards, so they would appear to be IPHY rather than MOA.
I suspect not. The specifications on all of Weaver's current tactical scopes are 1/4 or 1/8, and those adjustments are stated to be in inches at 100 yards, so they would appear to be IPHY rather than MOA.
Re: Weaver FFP tactical scope
http://www.weaveroptics.com/optics/riflescopes/tactical.aspx
There's the link.
http://www.weaveroptics.com/optics/riflescopes/tactical.aspx
There's the link.
Re: Weaver FFP tactical scope
That link says nothing about magnification ranges, except <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Powerful 5x magnification</div></div>
That link says nothing about magnification ranges, except <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Powerful 5x magnification</div></div>
Re: Weaver FFP tactical scope
Also saw that (5x) offering
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Overview FEATURES & BENEFITS
<span style="font-weight: bold">• Powerful 5x magnification</span>
• Fully multi-coated lenses w/ extra hard coating on exterior lenses
• First focal plane reticles
• Waterproof / fogproof / shockproof
• Side focus parallax adjustment
• Reset-to-zero turrets (no caps to lose)
• Argon purged tubes to eliminate internal fogging
• One-piece construction
• 30mm tubes
• Mil Dot reticles
Also saw that (5x) offering
-
Overview FEATURES & BENEFITS
<span style="font-weight: bold">• Powerful 5x magnification</span>
• Fully multi-coated lenses w/ extra hard coating on exterior lenses
• First focal plane reticles
• Waterproof / fogproof / shockproof
• Side focus parallax adjustment
• Reset-to-zero turrets (no caps to lose)
• Argon purged tubes to eliminate internal fogging
• One-piece construction
• 30mm tubes
• Mil Dot reticles
Re: Weaver FFP tactical scope
Perhaps you saw it somewhere else. I hope so. A 5 power scope with a FFP mildot reticle is a waste of glass.
Perhaps you saw it somewhere else. I hope so. A 5 power scope with a FFP mildot reticle is a waste of glass.
Re: Weaver FFP tactical scope
Two models, info from Midsouth Shooters Supply
800360 WEAVER TACTICAL 4-20 X50 30MM SF M $745.89
800362 WEAVER TACTICAL 3-15 X50 30MM SF M $668.14
Two models, info from Midsouth Shooters Supply
800360 WEAVER TACTICAL 4-20 X50 30MM SF M $745.89
800362 WEAVER TACTICAL 3-15 X50 30MM SF M $668.14
Re: Weaver FFP tactical scope
Why in the hell are scope makers so slow to figure out that if you have a mil reticle you use a mil adjustment, and if you have moa adjustments you use a moa reticle? What is this, brain surgery?
Why in the hell are scope makers so slow to figure out that if you have a mil reticle you use a mil adjustment, and if you have moa adjustments you use a moa reticle? What is this, brain surgery?
Re: Weaver FFP tactical scope
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tman300wm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why in the hell are scope makers so slow to figure out that if you have a mil reticle you use a mil adjustment, and if you have moa adjustments you use a moa reticle? What is this, brain surgery? </div></div> They look at what they think will sell to the widest market possible; most people here in the US, even those who know how to use a Mil Dot reticle, are more comfortable with MOA adjustments.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tman300wm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why in the hell are scope makers so slow to figure out that if you have a mil reticle you use a mil adjustment, and if you have moa adjustments you use a moa reticle? What is this, brain surgery? </div></div> They look at what they think will sell to the widest market possible; most people here in the US, even those who know how to use a Mil Dot reticle, are more comfortable with MOA adjustments.
Re: Weaver FFP tactical scope
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tman300wm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why in the hell are scope makers so slow to figure out that if you have a mil reticle you use a mil adjustment, and if you have moa adjustments you use a moa reticle? What is this, brain surgery? </div></div>
Unfortunatly I would guess 80-90% of people who buy these things rarely use them as intended.Americans are used to mil reticles and 1/4 IPHY adjustments.The true users market is relatively small.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tman300wm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why in the hell are scope makers so slow to figure out that if you have a mil reticle you use a mil adjustment, and if you have moa adjustments you use a moa reticle? What is this, brain surgery? </div></div>
Unfortunatly I would guess 80-90% of people who buy these things rarely use them as intended.Americans are used to mil reticles and 1/4 IPHY adjustments.The true users market is relatively small.
Re: Weaver FFP tactical scope
I will be looking at them at SHOT for sure-and if budget permits after my schools are up using this on my 300wm
I will be looking at them at SHOT for sure-and if budget permits after my schools are up using this on my 300wm
Re: Weaver FFP tactical scope
There is a lot of conflicting information out there about these scopes. One dealer said they were expecting these 2/28/09. I emailed Weaver directly and was told they won't hit the US market until August. I just bought a Rock River Arms AR and need a decent scope. I was going to give the Weaver a try but I guess I'll have to come up with a plan b. I was thinking about a busnell elite 4500 or 6500, a Super Sniper or maybe one of the Wonder Optics 4-14 x 50's Gen2. Anybody out there have experience with all 3 of these scopes?
There is a lot of conflicting information out there about these scopes. One dealer said they were expecting these 2/28/09. I emailed Weaver directly and was told they won't hit the US market until August. I just bought a Rock River Arms AR and need a decent scope. I was going to give the Weaver a try but I guess I'll have to come up with a plan b. I was thinking about a busnell elite 4500 or 6500, a Super Sniper or maybe one of the Wonder Optics 4-14 x 50's Gen2. Anybody out there have experience with all 3 of these scopes?
Re: Weaver FFP tactical scope
800362 3-15x50 Mil Dot 30mm Mil-Dot
800360 4-20x50 Mil Dot 30mm Mil-Dot
There it is.
800362 3-15x50 Mil Dot 30mm Mil-Dot
800360 4-20x50 Mil Dot 30mm Mil-Dot
There it is.
Re: Weaver FFP tactical scope
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tman300wm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why in the hell are scope makers so slow to figure out that if you have a mil reticle you use a mil adjustment, and if you have moa adjustments you use a moa reticle? What is this, brain surgery? </div></div>
Maybe they will figure it out if enough of us take our money elswhere?
I see right here on SH there are plenty of folks who will compromise.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tman300wm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why in the hell are scope makers so slow to figure out that if you have a mil reticle you use a mil adjustment, and if you have moa adjustments you use a moa reticle? What is this, brain surgery? </div></div>
Maybe they will figure it out if enough of us take our money elswhere?
I see right here on SH there are plenty of folks who will compromise.
Re: Weaver FFP tactical scope
Regarding who is "serious" and who is not:
Actually, THE bullet proof system for sniping, which is Minute Of Rib Cage hit capability, IS The Leupold M3 turret with matched cam.
Yeah, I understand the capabilities of a matched reticle to turret; but to my sensibilities and purposes they don't "matter".
I am not a game competitor, have no intent of shooting for score where I have to range a pop-up target and calc the variable and make the shot as precisely as possible. All that matters in my book is that the meat is taken. I prefer tactical gear for hunting and offhand accuracy.
Can't see that it is "worth" another $1000 or $500 to retrofit a scope to do what I can do in my head. Especially if I have time to range rather than SWAG a shot.
For the serious shooter, what is more critical than the minimum number of elevation clicks, and a standard reference for their ammunition painted right on their turret?
How many here say they are "serious", but don't dial their wind values? Probably most.
The windage is the most critical element to a longrange hit. Don't trust yourself enough to dial & dump based on your calls? Got that Kestrel working? Maybe a computer tie in calculator to convince you what is what?
I guess if I expect to be able to hit a dime at any distance from 20" to 1200yds, I'd better have The Best tech gear; but I don't expect that. Kinda like fishing ain't called catching because you can't will the fish to get on your hook. Same way with your bullet; you can't will it onto the dime at 1200yds.
In the real world, nobody attempts the hostage rescue shot beyond 100yds, too much is dynamic, moving and changing.
In the real world being able to swag the distance, dial to the nearest 100yd zero and be in some usable range of impact on the meat is all that matters.
If you know your ballistic performance over your rounds usable trajectory, you are serious.
The riflescope is a sight. About all you "need" it to do is reasonably aid you to identify your target. If, at 1000yds you have to shoot one particular subject out of a group of a family of identical Quintuplets, then maybe you need the $3500 whizbang scope that outperforms the 80mm fluoride lens spotting scope. If you have to see which subject has the mole with blonde hair at that distance, maybe. Then those rascals will move and you have to search all over again...
Maybe I prove my ignorance here, but in the field; when it is all on the line, you want fast and known, precise not in terms of to the last .25" at 1000 but precisely Knowing that your dial marking corresponds to that yardage or meter distance that time and everytime. The M3 turret does this. Almost seems there should be a 2" or 2 mil per click M3 turret, and only zero the scope for the highest value of the Battle Sight Zero... Like 360yds. Hold dead on from 150 to 360 and from there you are only 20 or 30 clicks out to 900yds.
What is an inch or two between ribs anyway? It still does the job.
If you are trying to hit those dimes, I hope you can transition to fast and MORC when your ass is on the line, because competent longrange shooting isn't a game skillset, it is critical if you are out there carrying the rifle.
Regarding who is "serious" and who is not:
Actually, THE bullet proof system for sniping, which is Minute Of Rib Cage hit capability, IS The Leupold M3 turret with matched cam.
Yeah, I understand the capabilities of a matched reticle to turret; but to my sensibilities and purposes they don't "matter".
I am not a game competitor, have no intent of shooting for score where I have to range a pop-up target and calc the variable and make the shot as precisely as possible. All that matters in my book is that the meat is taken. I prefer tactical gear for hunting and offhand accuracy.
Can't see that it is "worth" another $1000 or $500 to retrofit a scope to do what I can do in my head. Especially if I have time to range rather than SWAG a shot.
For the serious shooter, what is more critical than the minimum number of elevation clicks, and a standard reference for their ammunition painted right on their turret?
How many here say they are "serious", but don't dial their wind values? Probably most.
The windage is the most critical element to a longrange hit. Don't trust yourself enough to dial & dump based on your calls? Got that Kestrel working? Maybe a computer tie in calculator to convince you what is what?
I guess if I expect to be able to hit a dime at any distance from 20" to 1200yds, I'd better have The Best tech gear; but I don't expect that. Kinda like fishing ain't called catching because you can't will the fish to get on your hook. Same way with your bullet; you can't will it onto the dime at 1200yds.
In the real world, nobody attempts the hostage rescue shot beyond 100yds, too much is dynamic, moving and changing.
In the real world being able to swag the distance, dial to the nearest 100yd zero and be in some usable range of impact on the meat is all that matters.
If you know your ballistic performance over your rounds usable trajectory, you are serious.
The riflescope is a sight. About all you "need" it to do is reasonably aid you to identify your target. If, at 1000yds you have to shoot one particular subject out of a group of a family of identical Quintuplets, then maybe you need the $3500 whizbang scope that outperforms the 80mm fluoride lens spotting scope. If you have to see which subject has the mole with blonde hair at that distance, maybe. Then those rascals will move and you have to search all over again...
Maybe I prove my ignorance here, but in the field; when it is all on the line, you want fast and known, precise not in terms of to the last .25" at 1000 but precisely Knowing that your dial marking corresponds to that yardage or meter distance that time and everytime. The M3 turret does this. Almost seems there should be a 2" or 2 mil per click M3 turret, and only zero the scope for the highest value of the Battle Sight Zero... Like 360yds. Hold dead on from 150 to 360 and from there you are only 20 or 30 clicks out to 900yds.
What is an inch or two between ribs anyway? It still does the job.
If you are trying to hit those dimes, I hope you can transition to fast and MORC when your ass is on the line, because competent longrange shooting isn't a game skillset, it is critical if you are out there carrying the rifle.
Re: Weaver FFP tactical scope
If you want to play that silliness you don't even need a tactical elevation or windage knobs, just typical covered low hunting knobs and use mildots and hold overs or holdunders, same for windage, no need for tactical turrets or dialing anything at all just use holdoffs.
Now we've not only lightened the scope, and it's easier to waterproof. Not to mention nothing is faster than holdoffs/holdovers/holdunders, no dialing needed.
Most people on here are not killing other people, so while I can understand your point of view, for most that's not the prime purpose and having adjustments that match the reticule is just good sense. I do agree that we need to get away from 1/4 MOA or .1 mil adjustments I'd much rather see at least .5 moa and .2 mil adjustments, it is faster. I even have an M3 and it's a good scope for getting you there fast for dialing but it still no where near as fast as holdoffs.
For hunting, sure pick a good zero that gets you say 0-300 or 350 in the kill zone for your zero and then dial or holdover at yardages past that. For hunting I'd prefer 1/2 moa adjustments, the humane kill zone on a deer is only 8" or so, if your range is off only a little bit at anything outside 400yds you are outside that 8" circle in a heartbeat, especially if your clicks +/- 2" already if you choose to shoot that far. Frankly, the only reason I can see for having to take a hunting shot over 400 yds is you don't know how to hunt, if you can't get within 400 yards of your prey you need to learn to hunt, not shoot better, but that's a whole different post that would offend all sorts of people that think they are cool shooting deer at 1000 yards.
2 MOA per click is way too much for even combat use over 600 yards, At 800 yards 2 MOA is just shy of 17" per click, +/- on that is well outside a ribcage of anything shy of a canadian moose. Holdovers will get you closer than that.
If you want to play that silliness you don't even need a tactical elevation or windage knobs, just typical covered low hunting knobs and use mildots and hold overs or holdunders, same for windage, no need for tactical turrets or dialing anything at all just use holdoffs.
Now we've not only lightened the scope, and it's easier to waterproof. Not to mention nothing is faster than holdoffs/holdovers/holdunders, no dialing needed.
Most people on here are not killing other people, so while I can understand your point of view, for most that's not the prime purpose and having adjustments that match the reticule is just good sense. I do agree that we need to get away from 1/4 MOA or .1 mil adjustments I'd much rather see at least .5 moa and .2 mil adjustments, it is faster. I even have an M3 and it's a good scope for getting you there fast for dialing but it still no where near as fast as holdoffs.
For hunting, sure pick a good zero that gets you say 0-300 or 350 in the kill zone for your zero and then dial or holdover at yardages past that. For hunting I'd prefer 1/2 moa adjustments, the humane kill zone on a deer is only 8" or so, if your range is off only a little bit at anything outside 400yds you are outside that 8" circle in a heartbeat, especially if your clicks +/- 2" already if you choose to shoot that far. Frankly, the only reason I can see for having to take a hunting shot over 400 yds is you don't know how to hunt, if you can't get within 400 yards of your prey you need to learn to hunt, not shoot better, but that's a whole different post that would offend all sorts of people that think they are cool shooting deer at 1000 yards.
2 MOA per click is way too much for even combat use over 600 yards, At 800 yards 2 MOA is just shy of 17" per click, +/- on that is well outside a ribcage of anything shy of a canadian moose. Holdovers will get you closer than that.
Re: Weaver FFP tactical scope
Yeah, hold-offs are fast; but unless you are wearing a Leather Shooting Coat, Cuffed-up in a Very Stout shooting sling, and have a stout Free-Float tube or full-length aluminum ribbed forearm in your stock; no one can shoot with much accuracy that way.
Can any here shoot 1moa 5rd grps at 300-500yds offhand and using big-ass mil-dot instead of crosshair?
I have owned a Mark 4 M3 with target dot, very accurate but too tiny to be visible in the field.
Is 2moa per click "too much"?
Look at the Sierra ballistics. At 2700FPS for the 168matchking, the pointblank zero is 315yds with zero at 275yds. Bullet drop from 315 to 400yds is about ten or eleven inches. From 300 to 500yds, bullet drop is about 40".
Okay? So, for a Real longrange battlefield scope, which will deliver a round within 2.5" of reticle from muzzle to 300yds, Why not use 2moa clicks and improve the field performance? Are you really shooting to put 5rds into a .3moa circle or make the hit? Not talking gaming or match scope here, but Field Practical.
What actually IS "Field Practical"???
Maybe you take your new scope, a variety of rings, bases and shims and shoot it in at 1,000yds so that the bullet delivery is perfect in elevation adjustment and WORK BACKWARDS>?
The Big Deal for fine reticle adjustment scopes is to have that precision adjustment for longrange, right? If you could (theoretically) adjust the scope to perfect elevation at your max distance, and had a ballistic matched cam, the "perfect scope mount" would yield the perfect bullet tracking setup; all things being equal.
So, instead of spending $3500 on an optic, why not spend $500 instead of $300 on scope mounts? Get the scope mount that enables Precise Location of instrument and the Battlefield Scope can have maybe 5moa per turn? Doesn't matter if 5moa is finest once you are dialing from 500-600yds because you have 70in of elevation to dial, which is about 10moa or mils which are roughly equivalent in MORC terms. The Battlefiled optic doesn't need to differentiate between mole color of identical quint subjects at 1200yds or allow such total .1mil precision turret movement. The tiny precision has to cost way more than more gross movements would, even if just as precise.
Why aren't turret dials capable of being "sleeved". The turret doesn't need to change or be reset, but the dial ought to allow placing a thicker erek type fatboy over the standard. The larger dial indexes on the present one and voila! You have all turret movement in one or two rotations without a trip back to the factory.
A rifle scope is primarily a sight not an optic.
Maybe this is chicken/egg kind of perspective.
But longrange shooting and riflery is fast evolving, and the scope evolution is working at odds with that evolution in my opinion.
Yeah, hold-offs are fast; but unless you are wearing a Leather Shooting Coat, Cuffed-up in a Very Stout shooting sling, and have a stout Free-Float tube or full-length aluminum ribbed forearm in your stock; no one can shoot with much accuracy that way.
Can any here shoot 1moa 5rd grps at 300-500yds offhand and using big-ass mil-dot instead of crosshair?
I have owned a Mark 4 M3 with target dot, very accurate but too tiny to be visible in the field.
Is 2moa per click "too much"?
Look at the Sierra ballistics. At 2700FPS for the 168matchking, the pointblank zero is 315yds with zero at 275yds. Bullet drop from 315 to 400yds is about ten or eleven inches. From 300 to 500yds, bullet drop is about 40".
Okay? So, for a Real longrange battlefield scope, which will deliver a round within 2.5" of reticle from muzzle to 300yds, Why not use 2moa clicks and improve the field performance? Are you really shooting to put 5rds into a .3moa circle or make the hit? Not talking gaming or match scope here, but Field Practical.
What actually IS "Field Practical"???
Maybe you take your new scope, a variety of rings, bases and shims and shoot it in at 1,000yds so that the bullet delivery is perfect in elevation adjustment and WORK BACKWARDS>?
The Big Deal for fine reticle adjustment scopes is to have that precision adjustment for longrange, right? If you could (theoretically) adjust the scope to perfect elevation at your max distance, and had a ballistic matched cam, the "perfect scope mount" would yield the perfect bullet tracking setup; all things being equal.
So, instead of spending $3500 on an optic, why not spend $500 instead of $300 on scope mounts? Get the scope mount that enables Precise Location of instrument and the Battlefield Scope can have maybe 5moa per turn? Doesn't matter if 5moa is finest once you are dialing from 500-600yds because you have 70in of elevation to dial, which is about 10moa or mils which are roughly equivalent in MORC terms. The Battlefiled optic doesn't need to differentiate between mole color of identical quint subjects at 1200yds or allow such total .1mil precision turret movement. The tiny precision has to cost way more than more gross movements would, even if just as precise.
Why aren't turret dials capable of being "sleeved". The turret doesn't need to change or be reset, but the dial ought to allow placing a thicker erek type fatboy over the standard. The larger dial indexes on the present one and voila! You have all turret movement in one or two rotations without a trip back to the factory.
A rifle scope is primarily a sight not an optic.
Maybe this is chicken/egg kind of perspective.
But longrange shooting and riflery is fast evolving, and the scope evolution is working at odds with that evolution in my opinion.
Re: Weaver FFP tactical scope
The Battlefiled optic doesn't need to differentiate between mole color of identical quint subjects at 1200yds or allow such total .1mil precision turret movement. The tiny precision has to cost way more than more gross movements would, even if just as precise.
Quoting myself, pretty obnoxious; but...
Optics, erectors and other lens group hardware aside; much of the remaining cost of a S&B, USO etc Top-Of-The-Line scope is in the finely ground precise threaded machine work in the turret system. Much easier, less expensive to machine coarse threads/gears, internals than those of such fine precision.
Or maybe not, just seems you could probably have your cake and eat it too if the reticle elevation movements were 1moa/1mil or maybe 2 or more.
How much more effective is a longrange scopesight that has 1/10th or 1/20th of the movements to dial, count, keep track of?
How much better is a scope dialed-in exactly at whatever max range the user chooses? Of course, ammunition must match the cam as well.
Anyway, just some thoughts.
I have never seen the applicability of heavy scopes in the field.
The Battlefiled optic doesn't need to differentiate between mole color of identical quint subjects at 1200yds or allow such total .1mil precision turret movement. The tiny precision has to cost way more than more gross movements would, even if just as precise.
Quoting myself, pretty obnoxious; but...
Optics, erectors and other lens group hardware aside; much of the remaining cost of a S&B, USO etc Top-Of-The-Line scope is in the finely ground precise threaded machine work in the turret system. Much easier, less expensive to machine coarse threads/gears, internals than those of such fine precision.
Or maybe not, just seems you could probably have your cake and eat it too if the reticle elevation movements were 1moa/1mil or maybe 2 or more.
How much more effective is a longrange scopesight that has 1/10th or 1/20th of the movements to dial, count, keep track of?
How much better is a scope dialed-in exactly at whatever max range the user chooses? Of course, ammunition must match the cam as well.
Anyway, just some thoughts.
I have never seen the applicability of heavy scopes in the field.
Re: Weaver FFP tactical scope
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swamper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Actually, THE bullet proof system for sniping, which is Minute Of Rib Cage hit capability, IS The Leupold M3 turret with matched cam.
</div></div>
Damn, with that I think we can isolate scopes for sniping right out of Snipers Hide Optics!
I guess we can discuss what's left over. Target and hunting etc. even though this is Snipers Hide. Oh well!
I bought a Leupy. If it's good enough for me, it's good enough for you! Got it?!!
I vote any/all questions about sniper optics get an auto response, the one in the quotes.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swamper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Actually, THE bullet proof system for sniping, which is Minute Of Rib Cage hit capability, IS The Leupold M3 turret with matched cam.
</div></div>
Damn, with that I think we can isolate scopes for sniping right out of Snipers Hide Optics!
I guess we can discuss what's left over. Target and hunting etc. even though this is Snipers Hide. Oh well!
I bought a Leupy. If it's good enough for me, it's good enough for you! Got it?!!
I vote any/all questions about sniper optics get an auto response, the one in the quotes.
Re: Weaver FFP tactical scope
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swamper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Can any here shoot 1moa 5rd grps at 300-500yds offhand and using big-ass mil-dot instead of crosshair?
</div></div>
If you are saying you can shoot 1moa 5rd groups at 300-500yd offhand I'll be the first to say it: <span style="text-decoration: underline">BULLSHIT!!! </span>I don't care what reticle you're using.
NRA's been sanctioning HP Silhouette for decades and last year was the first time ANYONE (and Mr Tubb used to shoot sillywet) EVER shot 40/40 and thats 10 shots at targets that are 12ish square MOA at each distance, 200, 300, 385 and 500 meters.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swamper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Can any here shoot 1moa 5rd grps at 300-500yds offhand and using big-ass mil-dot instead of crosshair?
</div></div>
If you are saying you can shoot 1moa 5rd groups at 300-500yd offhand I'll be the first to say it: <span style="text-decoration: underline">BULLSHIT!!! </span>I don't care what reticle you're using.
NRA's been sanctioning HP Silhouette for decades and last year was the first time ANYONE (and Mr Tubb used to shoot sillywet) EVER shot 40/40 and thats 10 shots at targets that are 12ish square MOA at each distance, 200, 300, 385 and 500 meters.
Re: Weaver FFP tactical scope
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swamper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually, THE bullet proof system for sniping, which is Minute Of Rib Cage hit capability, IS The Leupold M3 turret with matched cam.</div></div>
Although I do not share Swamper's devotion to leupold as the maker of the "End All" of sniper optics. I think Swamper is pointing out that some people think money spent directly correlates to better performance whether it is measured in kills/game points/etc. Capable gear is necessary but doesn't replace range time.
I think it is nice to see another american (I think???) company listening to customer demands or copying other companies marketing strategies, whichever it may be, to bring another option to the firearms industry. I'd rather see another new mid-range priced scope than a going out-of-business sale at Weaver's expense. Just a thought.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swamper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually, THE bullet proof system for sniping, which is Minute Of Rib Cage hit capability, IS The Leupold M3 turret with matched cam.</div></div>
Although I do not share Swamper's devotion to leupold as the maker of the "End All" of sniper optics. I think Swamper is pointing out that some people think money spent directly correlates to better performance whether it is measured in kills/game points/etc. Capable gear is necessary but doesn't replace range time.
I think it is nice to see another american (I think???) company listening to customer demands or copying other companies marketing strategies, whichever it may be, to bring another option to the firearms industry. I'd rather see another new mid-range priced scope than a going out-of-business sale at Weaver's expense. Just a thought.
Re: Weaver FFP tactical scope
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swamper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Regarding who is "serious" and who is not:
Actually, THE bullet proof system for sniping, which is Minute Of Rib Cage hit capability, IS The Leupold M3 turret with matched cam.
Yeah, I understand the capabilities of a matched reticle to turret; but to my sensibilities and purposes they don't "matter".
I am not a game competitor, have no intent of shooting for score where I have to range a pop-up target and calc the variable and make the shot as precisely as possible. All that matters in my book is that the meat is taken. I prefer tactical gear for hunting and offhand accuracy.
Can't see that it is "worth" another $1000 or $500 to retrofit a scope to do what I can do in my head. Especially if I have time to range rather than SWAG a shot.
For the serious shooter, what is more critical than the minimum number of elevation clicks, and a standard reference for their ammunition painted right on their turret?
How many here say they are "serious", but don't dial their wind values? Probably most.
The windage is the most critical element to a longrange hit. Don't trust yourself enough to dial & dump based on your calls? Got that Kestrel working? Maybe a computer tie in calculator to convince you what is what?
I guess if I expect to be able to hit a dime at any distance from 20" to 1200yds, I'd better have The Best tech gear; but I don't expect that. Kinda like fishing ain't called catching because you can't will the fish to get on your hook. Same way with your bullet; you can't will it onto the dime at 1200yds.
In the real world, nobody attempts the hostage rescue shot beyond 100yds, too much is dynamic, moving and changing.
In the real world being able to swag the distance, dial to the nearest 100yd zero and be in some usable range of impact on the meat is all that matters.
If you know your ballistic performance over your rounds usable trajectory, you are serious.
The riflescope is a sight. About all you "need" it to do is reasonably aid you to identify your target. If, at 1000yds you have to shoot one particular subject out of a group of a family of identical Quintuplets, then maybe you need the $3500 whizbang scope that outperforms the 80mm fluoride lens spotting scope. If you have to see which subject has the mole with blonde hair at that distance, maybe. Then those rascals will move and you have to search all over again...
Maybe I prove my ignorance here, but in the field; when it is all on the line, you want fast and known, precise not in terms of to the last .25" at 1000 but precisely Knowing that your dial marking corresponds to that yardage or meter distance that time and everytime. The M3 turret does this. Almost seems there should be a 2" or 2 mil per click M3 turret, and only zero the scope for the highest value of the Battle Sight Zero... Like 360yds. Hold dead on from 150 to 360 and from there you are only 20 or 30 clicks out to 900yds.
What is an inch or two between ribs anyway? It still does the job.
If you are trying to hit those dimes, I hope you can transition to fast and MORC when your ass is on the line, because competent longrange shooting isn't a game skillset, it is critical if you are out there carrying the rifle.</div></div>
Can you condense this into something shorter, less rambling and that actually gets some kind of point across?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swamper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Regarding who is "serious" and who is not:
Actually, THE bullet proof system for sniping, which is Minute Of Rib Cage hit capability, IS The Leupold M3 turret with matched cam.
Yeah, I understand the capabilities of a matched reticle to turret; but to my sensibilities and purposes they don't "matter".
I am not a game competitor, have no intent of shooting for score where I have to range a pop-up target and calc the variable and make the shot as precisely as possible. All that matters in my book is that the meat is taken. I prefer tactical gear for hunting and offhand accuracy.
Can't see that it is "worth" another $1000 or $500 to retrofit a scope to do what I can do in my head. Especially if I have time to range rather than SWAG a shot.
For the serious shooter, what is more critical than the minimum number of elevation clicks, and a standard reference for their ammunition painted right on their turret?
How many here say they are "serious", but don't dial their wind values? Probably most.
The windage is the most critical element to a longrange hit. Don't trust yourself enough to dial & dump based on your calls? Got that Kestrel working? Maybe a computer tie in calculator to convince you what is what?
I guess if I expect to be able to hit a dime at any distance from 20" to 1200yds, I'd better have The Best tech gear; but I don't expect that. Kinda like fishing ain't called catching because you can't will the fish to get on your hook. Same way with your bullet; you can't will it onto the dime at 1200yds.
In the real world, nobody attempts the hostage rescue shot beyond 100yds, too much is dynamic, moving and changing.
In the real world being able to swag the distance, dial to the nearest 100yd zero and be in some usable range of impact on the meat is all that matters.
If you know your ballistic performance over your rounds usable trajectory, you are serious.
The riflescope is a sight. About all you "need" it to do is reasonably aid you to identify your target. If, at 1000yds you have to shoot one particular subject out of a group of a family of identical Quintuplets, then maybe you need the $3500 whizbang scope that outperforms the 80mm fluoride lens spotting scope. If you have to see which subject has the mole with blonde hair at that distance, maybe. Then those rascals will move and you have to search all over again...
Maybe I prove my ignorance here, but in the field; when it is all on the line, you want fast and known, precise not in terms of to the last .25" at 1000 but precisely Knowing that your dial marking corresponds to that yardage or meter distance that time and everytime. The M3 turret does this. Almost seems there should be a 2" or 2 mil per click M3 turret, and only zero the scope for the highest value of the Battle Sight Zero... Like 360yds. Hold dead on from 150 to 360 and from there you are only 20 or 30 clicks out to 900yds.
What is an inch or two between ribs anyway? It still does the job.
If you are trying to hit those dimes, I hope you can transition to fast and MORC when your ass is on the line, because competent longrange shooting isn't a game skillset, it is critical if you are out there carrying the rifle.</div></div>
Can you condense this into something shorter, less rambling and that actually gets some kind of point across?
Re: Weaver FFP tactical scope
Weaver already has a reputation for repeatable mechanics. I know many top-level silhouette shooters that $400 T24's on top of their high dollar custom rigs. They are light and very repeatable.
I hope their glass consistency is better in their new line. I have one T24 that is crystal clear and another that reminds me of looking through a glass of salt water (but for steel animals offhand out to 500m, repeatability trumps clarity every time in my book).
I'd still love to see a 500yd offhand 5 shot group that measures less than 2 moa ctc, from ANYONE!
Weaver already has a reputation for repeatable mechanics. I know many top-level silhouette shooters that $400 T24's on top of their high dollar custom rigs. They are light and very repeatable.
I hope their glass consistency is better in their new line. I have one T24 that is crystal clear and another that reminds me of looking through a glass of salt water (but for steel animals offhand out to 500m, repeatability trumps clarity every time in my book).
I'd still love to see a 500yd offhand 5 shot group that measures less than 2 moa ctc, from ANYONE!
Re: Weaver FFP tactical scope
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swamper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Actually, THE bullet proof system for sniping, which is Minute Of Rib Cage hit capability, IS The Leupold M3 turret with matched cam.
</div></div>
Ha! I'm still laughing about that one.
Check this out.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1119938&nt=2&page=1
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swamper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Actually, THE bullet proof system for sniping, which is Minute Of Rib Cage hit capability, IS The Leupold M3 turret with matched cam.
</div></div>
Ha! I'm still laughing about that one.
Check this out.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1119938&nt=2&page=1
Re: Weaver FFP tactical scope
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Was on Weavers web page and see they are introducing a 30mm tubed FFP tactical scope in 3-15x50 and 5-25x50 with etched reticles. More and more mid priced FFP options. </div></div>
Last post was about 9 months ago. Has anyone tried one of these?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Was on Weavers web page and see they are introducing a 30mm tubed FFP tactical scope in 3-15x50 and 5-25x50 with etched reticles. More and more mid priced FFP options. </div></div>
Last post was about 9 months ago. Has anyone tried one of these?
Re: Weaver FFP tactical scope
Yes. I did a review a few weeks ago. They have great glass and very positive adjustments. They are not mil/mil though. I could care less as I have gotten used to the inch adjustments and it works fine for me. I am very pleased with this scope.
Yes. I did a review a few weeks ago. They have great glass and very positive adjustments. They are not mil/mil though. I could care less as I have gotten used to the inch adjustments and it works fine for me. I am very pleased with this scope.
Re: Weaver FFP tactical scope
When is the mil/mil one supposed to come out? if I recall someone said it was going to come out.
When is the mil/mil one supposed to come out? if I recall someone said it was going to come out.
Re: Weaver FFP tactical scope
There is already one out but its not FFP. Its a 3-10 mil/mil. Midway has them, they look good for a sub $350 scope.
They are not the same as the ones mentioned in this thread.
There is already one out but its not FFP. Its a 3-10 mil/mil. Midway has them, they look good for a sub $350 scope.
They are not the same as the ones mentioned in this thread.
Re: Weaver FFP tactical scope
The mil/mil adjustment is model #: 800363
<span style="font-weight: bold">Weaver Tactical Rifle Scope 30mm Tube 3-15x 50mm 1/10 Mil Adjustments Side Focus First Focal Illuminated Enhanced Mil-Dot Reticle Matte</span>
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=911627
$749 there.
The mil/mil adjustment is model #: 800363
<span style="font-weight: bold">Weaver Tactical Rifle Scope 30mm Tube 3-15x 50mm 1/10 Mil Adjustments Side Focus First Focal Illuminated Enhanced Mil-Dot Reticle Matte</span>
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=911627
$749 there.
Re: Weaver FFP tactical scope
Long time lurker and finaly decided to register.
I just ordered one of these from Mike at CS Tactical (great guy to do business with) and will let you guys know my impressions once I get to try her out.
Everything I have read has been positive and calling it a great bang for your buck scope. Hoping that is the case!
Long time lurker and finaly decided to register.
I just ordered one of these from Mike at CS Tactical (great guy to do business with) and will let you guys know my impressions once I get to try her out.
Everything I have read has been positive and calling it a great bang for your buck scope. Hoping that is the case!
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