Suppressors Welded Suppressors

[SAATG]

Is it the general consensus that you want to buy a suppressor that allows the removal of the ends so that you can clean them when they inevitable get extremely dirty?

Why would you want to have a welded/sealed over a non sealed?

 

[JJones75]

Re: Welded Suppressors

If you are not shooting rim fire ammo through it their is not going to be enough "buildup" to be concerned with. amybe a paper thin layer of carbon on the first few baffles but thats it.
If it concerns you then you can always soak it with kroil then run it through an ultra sonic cleaner.

But honestly dont worry about it

 

[HTG Mike]

Re: Welded Suppressors

Everyone has their opinion on take apart cans for centerfire. It is HTG's position that centerfire cans should be able to be take apart to be cleaned. See this link to see a suppressor with over 10,000 rounds of 5.56.
http://www.htgsilencers.com/Documents%20...Why%20Clean.pdf
It became so dirty that both sound quality and accuracy were affected.

It is commonly accepted that a dirty can is a quieter can. However, if it gets too dirty, sound quality and accuracy can suffer. If you want your silencer investment to last as long as possible, it is recommended that the can be take apart.

The take apart design adds other benefits as well. It affords the user the option to shoot low power loads or rimfire ammo through the can without worry of powder or lead deposits that can't be cleaned. It also allows the suppressor to be more easily repaired in the rare instance of a baffle strike (reducing the chances of a tube replacement and the user having to pay for a new $200 tax stamp).

 

[HPLLC]

Re: Welded Suppressors

The can in the PDF was destroyed by taking it apart according to the PDF.

The suppressor pictured also has low pressure regions that act as a gas trap- where more conventional suppressors don't have the same ability to move high pressure gas through ports, into low pressure areas where contaminants are unlikely to escape. This is benefitial in the form of enhanced sound reduction, and harmful in the form of greater fouling accumulation which will eventually rob performance in lieu of cleaning.

Ultrasonic cleaning can remove carbon which is a major part of the contamination inside the suppressor. Ultra-sonic cleaning is non-destructive.

The reason to use welding <span style="font-weight: bold">(if it is necessary)</span> is to create a higher strength product that moves heat more efficiently to the outer tube for cooling. Running cooler will result in greater longevity of suppressor components. Fouling should not impact accuracy in any way that can't be resolved with a brass bore brush or a dental pick. Welding is also beneficial in it's ability to keep components from moving even thousandths of an inch, or from changing orientation that may be necessary for performance. This will increase consistency and accuracy.

For bolt gunning or light sport or recreational use, moving heat isn't important, but when you get into sustained semi-automatic fire, or a fire schedule incorporating some full auto fire, moving heat becomes really important.

Without welding, when the tube is 1100F, the components inside the tube are several hundred degrees hotter. When the tube cools 300F, the components inside might cool 100degrees, so instead of being ready for additional use, the suppressor needs more time to cool. In other words the housing becomes an oven that is baking the suppressor to death.

That's fine if you drop 60-90 rounds and then your can gets to cool for 40 minutes, but if you keep shooting, welding is going to make a big difference, and cooling will occur in 1/3 the time with welded components, cooling so rapidly at elevated temperatures that moderate use can be continued without any cooling period at all.

 

[RollingThunder51]

Re: Welded Suppressors

Griff nails it.

He mentions:

1. The can seen is a classic second core entrapment design. High pressure gas exits the primary channel and is thrown into the secondary chambers. It captures debris, it captures heat. It actually fills the area where heat transfer to the envelope has to occur. Avoid this design.

2. Ultrasonic cleaning can be used with two exceptions. The first is that it will do nothing of importance with the design shown in the pdf. Secondly, watch out with ultrasonic cleaning, on some welds with some materials.

3. Heat distribution is paramount. Alignment is paramount.

I would only add the following:

Filth=Quiet. Cans with say, well why not, 10,000 rounds through them can actually sound better because of the extra turbulence created by the slight residuals of a well designed forward purge centerfire can.

Welding alone is not enough. There are many examples of spot welding on baffles where, over time, the heat and cool cycling can break the weld clean. Look for full 360 circumferential welding, the deeper the better.

Titanium does not weld with anything else. This creates special considerations when one designs and constructs using Titanium. When one sees cans with mixed materials, say Titanium with Inconel, you can bet some considerable work went into getting the armatures perfect. There are some great cans that are not wholly welded. But they almost never open!

Again, entrapment design and this can must be able to be opened.

 

[HPLLC]

Re: Welded Suppressors

I wouldn't use avoid as it is a generalization.

The HTG design has put up good 1m mil-std numbers as well as lower (outstanding) at the ear numbers (mil-std left ear) in Silencer Research testing, and for people who aren't needing hard use, high fire schedule, military-style suppressors, I think they are fine.

As long as needing to be destroyed to come apart isn't typical, the design is a perfectly good design.

I don't believe that one take apart product means everything should come apart either- as that again is a generalization that doesn't cover 100% of applications, some of which aren't suited to a take apart suppressor.

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In a typical welded suppressor, without gas trap design features, ~30,000+ rounds is the level at which this sort of serious, performance harming fouling is more likely to occur. And when it does, a 1 hour cycle (or several 1 hour cycles) in a typical (not ultra high frequency industrial) ultrasonic cleaner with vinegar and a couple drops of dish soap should be able to markedly reduce fouling inside the suppressor. This compound will break down carbon.

I recommend people shoot them as long as they can, and when issues begin to be a drag, they then ultrasonically clean them. Repeated, dozens of ultrasonic cycles in vinegar (4-18%acetic acid) for no particular good reason can damage components, so it's better to save the cleaning wear and tear till the suppressor actually needs to be cleaned.

The one thing ultrasonically cleaning a quality suppressor on this (every 30K+ rounds) schedule won't do is destroy a suppressor.

 

[SAATG]

Re: Welded Suppressors

wow..very nice information. Thanks all who posted. Does someone have some basic graphics that illustrate the different types of suppressor systems (ie. "second core entrapment core", etc) and the pros/cons of the different types.

Thanks

 

[737shark]

Re: Welded Suppressors

By a shark

It comes apart!!

 

[MattyG]

Re: Welded Suppressors

I second the cleaning idea. My SWR in .22 works better dirty, not many things in life do that haha. My OCD makes me want to make the internals shiny again though.

 

[golowandslow]

Re: Welded Suppressors

Many thanks for such great information.