Well this is interesting...

[Sooter76]

So I just got PCS’d to Rock Island Arsenal a few days ago and I just finished walking thru the museum. It’s a small museum but if you ever have a chance to walk thru it I recommend doing so. Despite its small size they have a lot of interesting variants and pieces, including the first ever 1903 to come off the line.

Anyway, I walking thru the military rifles displayed and I come across a couple of 1903a4’s and one in particular caught my attention because it’s topped with a Weaver K4. As far as I was tracking no K4 scopes were ever used with a4 rifles. The museum has binders with the documents on each rifle and sure enough it’s cataloged as a 1943 built a4 with a K4.

Probably means nothing since it was acquired in 1977 but I still found it interesting.

 

[sandwarrior]

It don't mean nuthin'? It means a helluva lot!. Weaver started in 1934 as a scope builder. Hard to say when, but he no doubt equipped a few rifles with 1" tubes. That combination could have easily been used in Viet Nam. Possibly even as early as Korea. Then again, there were a lot of "hot-spots" between Korea and Viet Nam. Not like A4's meant much in the 1960's to collectors or even custom builders. So, turning them into "more useful" sniper rifles could have been what was going on there. I'm one who wishes that rifle could really talk. Thank you for sharing Sooter.

 

[D_TROS]

this thread is worthless without pics. ha. (hint hint) esp the documentation.

The optics threw on rifles in times of need...


Regrards,
DT

 

[cplnorton]

Whenever you read the actual sniper documents, you see a trend. Anytime a war starts, they basically order every commercially available scope there is, and trial them as a sniper scope. They choose one and run with it during the war. Then when the war ends, the rifles usually became surplus and they used them in whatever ways they could be used that served a purpose. But usually the sniper programs as a whole were discontinued at wars end. A lot of the rifles would became training rifles after the wars, or were used as target rifles for ranges. Some even went to the shooting teams. Which many times especially for the Marines, that is what they were before the war.

In these down times after their intended purpose was over, anything and everything can happen to them. I even have evidence of them sporterizing sniper rifles in the 50's.

For instance the 03A4 was obsolete and replaced in 1945 by the M1C. So anytime after that, the rifles were outdated and surplus located in storage. So if anyone could think of a legitimate reason to pull these rifles, modify them, and use them for something. It was just a simple request to do so.

I think we as collectors think they never modified this stuff, this was the furthest from the truth. New scopes, cut down stocks, commercial stocks, new mounts. If they thought a new redesigned rifle might be put to good use for something, they did it.

 

[Random Guy]

I don't know about Weaver K4s on 1903A4s per se, but I do know that the U.S. Army bought 1,800 Weaver K4 scopes and special 1" diameter M1D scope brackets in 1964. They were delivered by 1965. So the US Army did a limited procurement of these scopes in the mid-1960s, and a few reportedly made it to Vietnam, but I think most were reportedly for National Guard use. (Best reference on this topic is Bruce Canfield's book, The M1 Garand)

In the mid-1990s DCM/CMP sold off all their surplus obsolete sniper scopes, including the somewhat hard to find 1" M1D mounts and matching Weaver K4 scopes. I got my example from an older collector who was disposing of his collection, who had purchased it from the DCM back in that hey-day. (I think he paid $175 for the scope and bracket back in 1995, but today this optic combo is a good bit more pricey).

So, with 1800 of these scopes "in the supply system" as of 1965, it doesn't surprise me if a few were put on old 1903A4s, along with 1" rings. My 2cts.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

I know we all like our dial-a-target scopes, but it is good occasionally to rediscover just what kind of work can actually get accomplished with what amounts to a hunting scope and a 300 yard zero.