Wet barrel versus dry

[Snuby642]

I may get rode hard on this observation, its ok I have thick skin.

So as I get it cold bore vrs warm shifts poi, especially in my featherweight center fire hunting rifles.
Bull barrels not as much and less if shooting subsonic rounds, doesn't heat up much.
Then there is the copper fouled versus dry whereas shots 8-20 are good and then crap at distance for high powered shoots.
Lets leave out the 300blk i shoot with very similar results less the copper coated bullets, another day!

So lets get down to the 22 rimfire , match grade ammo, shooting in a bull barrel.
For arguments sake it's a 10/22 in a shaw barrel (.920) shooting cci green tag or wolf match mostley for now.
Shooting 5 shot groups it doesn't heat up past ambient much at all.
Shooting 50 rounds doesn't make for much dirt in the barrel, and no copper build up with the soft lead bullets.
I'm seeing spread after 50 rounds.
Since several ammo manufacturers use wax to lube their match ammo, and do not seem to do so for their standard loads,
I think its a lube thing!

I belive when the Hoppe's #9 runs dry my groups spread, not much past that!!

What say you?

 

[JG26_Irish]

I'll bite. The bbl should be clean n dry at the start. There should not be any appreciable solvent or oil in the bbl when shooting. Run a couple clean dry patches down the bbl first. If the bbl is OK it should not be fouling and allowing measurable spread after only 50rds. I have an old Remington that is very well worn that does not begin to shoot well until after 20 rds and if I stop for 10 min, it cools off and does not begin to shoot well again until after at least 10 more rds, but that is an extreme case. Most start to shoot well after 5-10 shots and will shoot well for at least 200rds or more before you see large variance in accuracy. That is based on experience with Remington 540XR, Win 52, Anchutz 54SM, Vostock CM2, Ishmash Biathlon, and a handful of other 22 rimfires.

Irish

 

[Snuby642]

I will try running the barrel dryer.

I have been finishing my cleaning with a patch and 3 drops of hoppes gun oil.
I think maybe that came from a storage routine rather than for a weekly shooter routine.
I was taught that method of cleaning 50 years ago, all my guns still run, bore's are brite.
So less lube less fouling, got it!

I had no idea theat the excess lube was causing an accuracy problem because I never used to shoot more than about
40 rounds of center fire at a time, and never more than 50 rounds of rimfire at an actual target.
Rounds spent plinking didn't show spread like a paper target does, especially from bags on a bench.

I'm shooting at an indoor range 0-100yd with no wind and damn few excuses for miffing a round on the 22.
Thanks for the advice

 

[jbell]

I’ll second that, dry the bore well before shooting!

 

[JG26_Irish]

I generally run an oiled patch down my bbls also prior to storage but try to make it a habit to swab the bbl with a couple of clean dry patches prior to shooting. If I am hunting, I like to foul the bore with 5 shots before I go to the field. Most of my guns will print high-right on the first cold bore shot and settle in after a few.

Irish

 

[Snuby642]

I used to set up my hunting rifles for the one cold bore shot.
Finaly I learned patience and shot once, cleaned game and gun, and repeated.
I'm just getting into sport shooting rifles and still on a learning curve.

All the guys on the hide are pretty much my mentors, thanks!

 

[natdscott]

Here comes the riding...

Why the hell are you cleaning the barrel so much?

Unless you are switching between ammo types during quantitative testing, or it's north of 500 rounds, rimfire barrels typically do NOT benefit from cleaning like a centerfire may. They NEED the wax to full coat the barrel from chamber-to-muzzle before they tighten up, and MIXING wax types and lead alloys--even between different types of the same brand (e.g. Lapua Center-X versus Lapua Polar)--will f(*&k your shit up.

Depending on the ammunition and barrel, it can take almost a BOX of ammo before it tightens up after you screwed around and cleaned all the wax out.

Leave it alone, do NOT clean out the wax, and do NOT change ammunition types unless you have found something that works better, or if you find a problem with your current ammo (e.g.: it goes supersonic below 20 degrees, so you need a summer ammo and a winter ammo).

The purpose of testing a rimfire is to find what it likes, and by what it likes I mean you are basically reverse handloading. We CAN'T handload to tune a rimfire, so we have no choice but to do it that'a way.

But once you find something that it really REALLY likes--in your 10/22 example, probably something that shoot 3/4" or less at 50m, and close to 2 MOA at 100...buddy, leave 'er alone. Buy a 5,000 round case, and enjoy shooting the rifle instead of d*(&^ing with ammo.

Final tip: a lot of rimfires are not particularly wonderful at coldbore shots, even provided that all of the above conditions have been satisifed. They WILL throw the first round, so don't adjust off of it. If it's been longer than a minute or two since your prior round, don't adjust off of it either, and it's best to leave the bolt shut on the spent casing until you are ready-to-go with the next round.

Ride over.

-Nate

 

[Snuby642]

I tried the shoot dirty route with one of my ar's last year.
Was shooting weekly for several hundred rounds lost track.
It kept shooting tight groups for me so I let it run.

Took the ar deer hunting (culling) for 50-100yd head shots as specified by the land owner.
Second day of looking for a spike got cold and I could not chamber a round.
The chamber got so fouled with gunk congealed by the cold the bolt wouldn't lock up.
Went back to cleaning (over cleaning and lubing ) by default.

So the wax is replacing the copper fouling that i used to remove only occasionally,
I'm learning . Will start a wax conservation routine.
When do we know it's time to strip it out of the barrel?

Thanks

 

[natdscott]

Oh, that's the trouble with the thing. It's kinda like a CM barrel...accuracy kinda slowly degrades as a rimfire gets too dirty. All I can tell you is that you have to shoot the rifle quantitatively, and do it long enough to figure that out. I wish it were more simple, but it just isn't. As a rule of thumb, once every brick or so isn't too often.

The same is NOT true of the actions and triggers, and even the barrel faces. DOOOO clean them early and often. Just don't put anything down the barrel. You can even scrub out the chamber a little bit (and you SHOULD if you change ammunition lengths), btu just be aware of how short a rimfire chamber really is; they're tiny.

Onliest other thing for now: stop making comparisons between CF cleaning and barrels and .22LR cleaning and barrels. 22LR does not copper foul, even with the copper-washed projectiles that are available. It's only ever going to be mainly lead, wax, and powder/primer residue. (Now .22 WMR and the various .17's are to be treated as CF...those bullets are actually jacketed, and fast.).

-Nate

 

[Snuby642]

Guess I can take a new brush, cut it off to chamber length and work it by fingertips.
That way I wont disturb the bore.
It's a semi.
Think I will strip the action clean it, dry the bore it was just cleaned and start a round count.
I suppose the wax will protect the bore?
Think a round count till fail to fire is eminent, or till noticeable spread ensues.
A track of grouping though the project may be a chore and the worst part is,

It will show my poor skills! Lol

 

[natdscott]

Yep. Wax does a good job of protecting the steel. Powder fouling is not wonderful, but if allowed to do so, rimfire barrels wear out in 35-50,000 rounds from the combination of wax + silicates in the primer residue being pushed down the bore repeatedly. That abrasive compound does indeed wash out the throat, and even the lands, given enough rounds. Close as I can tell, my Annie is about 10,000 rounds from death, and you can see it on the bullets...they are engraving less than half of what they were when it was new.

But most rimfire barrels are damaged first by poor cleaning methods. If it's a really accurate rifle, they're really sensitive to things that centerfire barrels may not show.

But if you're worried, a bore snake is a safer option, and you can soak the tail end in oil. It just means you can't count on the rifle to shoot where you point for a little while.

-Nate

 

[RTH1800]

Snuby,

There is a big difference between cleaning the action and chamber of an AR and cleaning the bore. An AR will shoot hot for a huge number of rounds. When it cools off, it gums up. Even with a few rounds fired and at normal temps. Shooting suppressed magnifies this effect. I clean action and chamber every time I shoot. I clean the bore when accuracy falls off. Often several hundred rounds suppressed.