Rifle Scopes What a scope and what the reticle shoud I choose?

[Victor_k]

Hi, guys!

Thinking of buying the first FFP rifle scope... Need your help to choose the properly one with mil turrets and mil reticle for it.
I intend to use the rifle for tactical competitions, for paper punching to train in accuracy and sometimes for hunting. The rifle is H-S Precision 2000 HTR chambered in 308 WIN.
Taking into consideration intended use of the rifle, I need a scope and a reticle that would be convenient for quick aiming and shooting at targets moving in close without rotating wind knobs, and as well as aim and accurately hit small-sized targets (e.g. such as five centimeters in diameter and sometimes distant more than three hundred meters).
Most local competitors typically use SFP Night Force scopes due to fine reticles, which do not cover the small size targets, and reasonable price. But I decided to try to choose FFP scope and the reticle, which combined together will be perfect for use mentioned above. Hope I’ll succeed. High-end scopes are really expensive and I want to make the right choice...
Since the target sometimes very small, I decided that a scope with a multiplicity of 5-25 would be the most appropriate.
So, I think that would be suitable following sights: USO SN3 T-Pal 5-25x58 and S & B 5-25x56 PMII / LP.
I’m considering these reticles: RDP Mil, Gen2 XR and Finnish MSR.

What a scope and the reticle would you recommend and why?

Thanks in advance.
SkyArrow.


P.S.: If anyone believes that there are more appropriate combinations of scope, the reticle, then I would be glad to hear their informed opinions

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: What a scope and what the reticle shoud I choose?

dude...............please complete your profile


most here use stuff they train with....and get good with it.....there is no magic pill.........some here have had their ass handed to them with folks that sport Kmart quality glass......and stock off the shelf rifles

just get something you like and can use well in most all conditions......

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Re: What a scope and what the reticle shoud I choose?

if you can afford the s&b5-25 this is a no brainer, get a ccw mil/mil with p4f and you are good to go.

I have been beat twice in matches with guys running weaver 3-10 so remember know your setup its not the car its the driver.

 

[Victor_k]

Re: What a scope and what the reticle shoud I choose?

Boltripper I agree with you that no magical scopes and the rifle is no substitute for long hours spent at the range ... I just want to choose a combination of scope and the reticle the most appropriate to me at present. Next, get a scope and continue training. Since I have no experience using FFP scopes, I ask for advice from the hide members who have used scopes and reticles that I've mentioned or have an informed opinion about them…

Diggler44 if the shooter has a great experience, he can shoot well from almost anything ... However, IMHO if the shooter uses the most suitable combination of a rifle, a scope, and the reticle, it makes shooting more comfortable for a minimum.
Why do you recommend P4F and not MSR?


Question to RDP users on what is the minimum magnification in the reticle which is convenient to use? How convenient for shooting in various settings and conditions reticle with not lit central cross?
A similar question to those who use the P4 and P4F reticles as far as is convenient for shooting in various settings and conditions reticle provides illuminated only the central cross?

 

[Victor_k]

Re: What a scope and what the reticle shoud I choose?

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[Victor_k]

Re: What a scope and what the reticle shoud I choose?

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[head2h2o]

Re: What a scope and what the reticle shoud I choose?

If you want FFP, then go with the NF F1. It has adequate magnification for the caliber and purpose of your shooting. The 3.2-17 TPAL may also be an option for you. The PMII at 5-25 just seems like a lot of scope for they intended use, but hey if you have the funds, roll with it. You have to practice and the more you do, you will realize that magnification is not always the answer to better shooting. I have experimented with this numberous times and most of the time I shoot just as good and sometimes better at lower magnifications.

 

[Rob01]

Re: What a scope and what the reticle shoud I choose?

I'd say stick with the 5-25. It's what i run on my comp guns. Not much larger or heavier than others but it's nice to have the higher power if you need it. Nothing says it has to be on 25x all the time. I can always turn my 5-25 down to 15x or 17x but try to turn the 15/17x up to 25x

Having had multiple scopes of both the other scopes mentioned, I would take the S&B 5-25 any day of the week.

Not sure if the MSR reticle is being sold yet but it's a good option as well as the P4F. The MSR is basically the P4F with some additions and slightly heavier lines. If you can't get the MSR then the P4F is the next best option in that scope.

 

[EventHorizon]

Re: What a scope and what the reticle shoud I choose?

If you're worried about fine reticles then the Premier heritage scopes are probably your best bet although they are heavy in regards to hunting - but then so is USO and SB. For the distances you've mentioned and the size of target you don't need to have the Gen2 XR. You can make do with the Premier Gen 2 Mil-dot in the 3-15X50. At 500 meters you will be able to see a 5cm target with this reticle on this magnification range.

The premier also will be your best value for money and you can pick up second hand scopes at great deals (although I don't know about exports to Russia). I wouldn't recommend the P4F reticle for hunting especially if you do any low light hunting where you'd need the reticle illumination. The SB P4F only illuminates a very small section of the cross hair where as the Premier the whole of the reticle is lit. Having said that, I've personally never hunted with either so I'm just passing on second hand info there.

Good luck.

 

[ranger1183]

Re: What a scope and what the reticle shoud I choose?

S&B with the Finnish MSR reticle. Excellent quality glass, scope internals and reticle.

http://www.finnaccuracy.com/sb_pm2_MSR_special_reticle_en.html

 

[Rob01]

Re: What a scope and what the reticle shoud I choose?

As for the reticle, he said and sometimes hunting so I took that as the majority of the shooting would be comps and range time which he mentioned first. I would pic the scope as to what I was doing the most with it.

OP, I have a P4F in my 5-25 and like it alot. Works great for everything and the thickness works fine on any power. It's a little harder to pick up at lower than 8x but I rarely go that low. Only the center out to 1 mil does light up but as you can see it's enough to be able to make a shot. I have used it on night movers without much problem so I don't see it as a big problem. Would I like the whole reticle illuminated? Sure but it's not enough to drive me away from this scope.

Here are some pics I took at a 400 yard target. Left target is about 12"x17" and the round target is 8". The hashmarks at 5x are a little easier to see in person than on the pic. I am not good at taking pics through the scope.
5x

10x

15x

25x

 

[Victor_k]

Re: What a scope and what the reticle shoud I choose?

Rob01, head2h2o, EventHorizon, ranger1183 thanks for your helpful answers!

I think I'll stop my choice for S & B 5-25x56 PMII / LP with MSR At first glance, it seems really good. One only confuses that lit is not the whole reticle, but only the central cross...
Yesterday I sent a letter to the Finnaccuracy to find out when exactly the scopes with that reticle will go on sale. Here is their answer: “The proto series scopes scheduled to arrive late Dec / early Jan. The first commercial batch of scopes is scheduled to be in during Feb 2011”.
I decided I was ready to wait, because even if I order the assembly of USO scope by my specs right now it still will not be brought to me earlier than two, maybe three months, taking into account the need to obtain an export license by vendor. So because I can get S&B without VAT tax, it would cost me about $ 3000 dollars. Cheaper than USO…

What do you think about S&b’s optional elevation knob with MTC, compared with double turn knob with colored windows? Is it worth the extra money?

 

[Victor_k]

Re: What a scope and what the reticle shoud I choose?

Rob, I posted my message only after that I saw your new message with photos. Thank you very much! Excellent illustration capabilities of the reticle!

What size is a red circle on a paper target, which is attached to the shield?
Like I said above, some targets in the tactical competition have really small diameter. For example, to simulate what is visible only a small part of a bad guy or scoring will only hit a certain point on him. For example, the location of the target simulates a bad guy with a grenade launcher, hiding behind a wall. It is understood that the shooter sees only a few centimeters from head pressed to his grenade launcher ammunition. One must not miss, and not to touch the munition by a bullet.
For this reason, I tried to pick up a reticle that would not obstruct small size targets at relatively long distances, but it would be quite clearly seen at slight magnification, against dark background and against tree branches.
But most of the targets in standard sizes and are usually located at distances of no more than one kilometer.
In competitions where I'd have to shoot longer distances it makes no sense to participate in with a rifle chambered in 308 WIN
Rob, you're right opportunity to hunt is at the bottom.
Hope MSR is the reticle that I need

 

[Victor_k]

Re: What a scope and what the reticle shoud I choose?

...

 

[Rob01]

Re: What a scope and what the reticle shoud I choose?

Sorry I missed your post from the other day as i was at a match.

Sky I would stick with the standard dual turn knob unless you feel a need for the MTC which I don't. The standard knob works very well.

The orange dot is in the center of an 8" target so it looks about 2". It wasn't my target so I am not sure. Sorry.

I totally understand the target sizes at competitions as that's what we do, shoot sniper/tactical comps. The 5-25 has never let me down and that's why I can recommend it so highly. It has all the features needed in one package. You won't be disappointed.

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: What a scope and what the reticle shoud I choose?

Has anyone fitted the P4F to a 3-12x50 PMII?

I'm in the process of changing the reticule on mine and like the idea of a thineer reticule wire but don't want to make the scope unusable at lower mag settings.

 

[Victor_k]

Re: What a scope and what the reticle shoud I choose?

Don’t mind Rob! I am very grateful to you for the detailed answers to my questions!
And I’ve just decided that I pre-order this December the scope of the party that is to arrive from the factory in February

Wish you good luck in the matches!

With respect to you,
SkyArrow.

 

[Rob01]

Re: What a scope and what the reticle shoud I choose?

Glad to help Sky. Good luck to you as well.

Basra I have never had it in a 3-12x but the pics above will give you some ideas as to what it will look like.

 

[TDECK]

Re: What a scope and what the reticle shoud I choose?

Barsa Boy, Zak Smith has the P4F for his 3x12x50 and highly recommends it. I have the P4F for my 4x16x42 and am very pleased.

If I did it over I would probably take Rob01's advise and buy the 5x25x56 with the P4F. I like the idea of having a more magnification. It gives you some nice options.

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: What a scope and what the reticle shoud I choose?

Rob, TDECK - thanks guys.

I was just a little worried I'd lose the reticule at low mag in the 3-12 looking at Rob's pics above.

 

[TDECK]

Re: What a scope and what the reticle shoud I choose?

You will lose a usable reticle picture at lower magnification! This is the down side to FFP scopes. My 4x16x42 is very usable 8 through 16 power. I think 12 is my preferred all around setting. I do not use my scope below 8 so it is a non issue for me. I simply view my scope as a 8x16 variable. You could always add a short range compact optic on the right mount for close in shots.

 

[Chiller]

Re: What a scope and what the reticle shoud I choose?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ranger1183</div><div class="ubbcode-body">S&B with the Finnish MSR reticle. Excellent quality glass, scope internals and reticle.

http://www.finnaccuracy.com/sb_pm2_MSR_special_reticle_en.html </div></div>

Unobtanium...???

 

[Victor_k]

Re: What a scope and what the reticle shoud I choose?

BasraBoy just because of the fact that the P4F is too thin at low magnifications in my opinion, I am to buy an S&B 5-25x56 with the new MSR reticle. MSR is not as thin as P4F and not as thick as the P4. If you are ready to wait you can order 5-25x56 with that reticle. Perhaps the MSR is exactly what you need in.

Moreover the MSR is equipped with an additional mil based scale graduated by 0.1 mil for very accurately milling distances to targets.

 

[hk9176251]

Re: What a scope and what the reticle shoud I choose?

others have seid the us optics mil-mpr is to (crowded) but i think most that have seid this have only seen the diagram i think it's the best most useful that i have looked through and deffinetly dont regret my purchase!

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: What a scope and what the reticle shoud I choose?

Thanks guys - looking at Rob's pics and talking to Graeme at Sporting Services I've decided to put in the P4F.

Realistically I do not use the scope at less than x5 and I do not want (or need) to replace it with a newer/higher mag version.

And...if the P4F doesn't work out....I guess I can always swap it to an MSR somewhere down the road.