I have used CCI Standard Velocity and Blazer in my Ruger 22 for quite a while. Been reading on another forum where CCI is slipping on quality. Sometime here soon I will begin shooting my 457 and will use the CCI Standard Velocity to begin with. I hope to find a brand that is affordable that shoots good, Aguila is a brand I will try, SK is one also but it is spendy for general shooting. I am looking for suggestions
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What about 22lr ammo ?
- Thread starter wonderdogroscoe
- Start date
Does it matter?
If you aren't shooting in competition, it doesn't.
If you are using it at 25 yards or less, it doesn't.
If you are looking for inexpensive ammo that goes bang and clears the muzzle, it doesn't.
If you are looking for better quality 22lr ammo, try SK or Geco products.
If you aren't shooting in competition, it doesn't.
If you are using it at 25 yards or less, it doesn't.
If you are looking for inexpensive ammo that goes bang and clears the muzzle, it doesn't.
If you are looking for better quality 22lr ammo, try SK or Geco products.
Define: shoots good
Define: affordable
These thing are unique to every individual.
If you define these you may find more precise answers to the questions you ask.
Define: affordable
These thing are unique to every individual.
If you define these you may find more precise answers to the questions you ask.
I do not shoot matches but with cci mm and blazers i can hold a 1 inch group at 100yds in my Kidd SS.I just put a Vudoo together and I picked up some center x,sk standard and sk match ammo.Hopefully the weather will go above freezing and I will get to the range this week to check it out.
Affordable would be $.06 for the revolver and $0.10 for the rifle, I know that if I shoot some form of competition then I will need a better quality ammo. Shoots good will be no bullets stuck in the barrel. I may be shooting some form of competition at 50 to 100 yards.
Buy cheap ammo to practice and good ammo for competition. Shooting matches with inferior ammo is a recipe for frustration.
SK Standard isn't bad at all and can be had around $50/500. SK Rifle Match is about $75/500 and a pretty good inside 100 yard load. Some use it past that.
SK Standard isn't bad at all and can be had around $50/500. SK Rifle Match is about $75/500 and a pretty good inside 100 yard load. Some use it past that.
I think you would be happy with this Geco. It would be on par with Norma tac22, sk standard plus, wolf match etc etc.
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Thanks for the info guys. I can only buy CCI and Aguila here anything else will be mail order which is not a problem, just a matter of pick and click. I will begin using my stash of CCI Std Vel but will pick up a few boxes of Aguila today. It is just gonna be a bit chilly for a while so shooting is not in the real near future. I like 40 deg. and rising not 34 and falling.
If your rifle cycles CCI SV, then I'd just stick with that.
When you get to shooting competitions and ammo becomes your limiting factor, then switch then. I ran CCI SV on my fiance's rifle for months, then switched over to SK+ when she started shooting better, and eventually will go to Center-X when she catches up to that ammo.
Does ammo matter? In my CZ455 in MDT chassis, it did best with a specific lot of Lapua-sourced Wolf Match Extra. When I got my Vudoo early this year, I tried about 10 different brands/labels of ammo. I could have saved myself some $ by paying attention to what just about every Vudoo owner acknowledges: buy Center-X and done.
With that said: I just bought a case of CCI SV - at $.05 a round shipped - which I've found to be completely adequate for practice inside 100 yards with one caveat: Between the long bullet skirt and thick rim, CCI SV does not feed smoothly in the Vudoo at all. I am assured by MB that the rough feeding is in no way harmful to the rifle.
But, at ranges over about 125 yards and certainly over 175-200, the consistency of Lapua Center-X / Eley Edge - class brands show their worth.
Wanna open the rimfire can o' worms a little farther? Cold weather. I shot a match yesterday where temperature was around freezing at the start and never got much above 40. In preparation for this, I tested Lapua Center-X against Lapua Polar Biathlon in a similar temp range. At 40-45 degrees F., the Center-X was showing about 1065fps, down almost 15fps from temps above 65. The Polar Biathlon gave me 1103fps at 40-45 degrees. Accuracy was identical - same bullet/lube in both as far as I know. Hmmm......
Edit: My point was not made at all... which is, CCI SV and similar can be bought cheap and can work very well for practice (my major weakness by far is moving to and getting stable in position quickly and smoothly, not marksmanship per se), but better-quality ammo is going to get you better accuracy, especially at extended range.
With that said: I just bought a case of CCI SV - at $.05 a round shipped - which I've found to be completely adequate for practice inside 100 yards with one caveat: Between the long bullet skirt and thick rim, CCI SV does not feed smoothly in the Vudoo at all. I am assured by MB that the rough feeding is in no way harmful to the rifle.
But, at ranges over about 125 yards and certainly over 175-200, the consistency of Lapua Center-X / Eley Edge - class brands show their worth.
Wanna open the rimfire can o' worms a little farther? Cold weather. I shot a match yesterday where temperature was around freezing at the start and never got much above 40. In preparation for this, I tested Lapua Center-X against Lapua Polar Biathlon in a similar temp range. At 40-45 degrees F., the Center-X was showing about 1065fps, down almost 15fps from temps above 65. The Polar Biathlon gave me 1103fps at 40-45 degrees. Accuracy was identical - same bullet/lube in both as far as I know. Hmmm......
Edit: My point was not made at all... which is, CCI SV and similar can be bought cheap and can work very well for practice (my major weakness by far is moving to and getting stable in position quickly and smoothly, not marksmanship per se), but better-quality ammo is going to get you better accuracy, especially at extended range.
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I have been using CCI SV with my CZ457 VPT Manners lately with results I am good with in practice. Today at the range the wind shifted from 4 different direction at 50 yards. Additionally I made some basic mistakes that also compounded my accuracy.
Interesting to note I used Wolf Match Extra on one row, where the wind slightly subsided, and the hits were not as I thought they should be. At the end of my target shooting CCI SV were most consistent $3.69
Interesting to note I used Wolf Match Extra on one row, where the wind slightly subsided, and the hits were not as I thought they should be. At the end of my target shooting CCI SV were most consistent $3.69
I have had excellent luck with Norma match 22 in my CZ 455. Its cheap-ish, and I can almost hold 1 MOA at 100 repeatably.
www.midwayusa.com
Norma Match-22 22LR Ammo 40 Grain Round Nose Box of 500 (10 Boxes of
Norma Match-22 delivers the precision accuracy required to compete in today's popular organized rimfire competitions, at a price that makes it...
www.midwayusa.com
I will look for the Norma Match in Los Angeles, or the next time I’m in Arizona. Appreciate the recommendation for tried and true .22lr ammo. Thanks!I have had excellent luck with Norma match 22 in my CZ 455. Its cheap-ish, and I can almost hold 1 MOA at 100 repeatably.
Norma Match-22 22LR Ammo 40 Grain Round Nose Box of 500 (10 Boxes of
Norma Match-22 delivers the precision accuracy required to compete in today's popular organized rimfire competitions, at a price that makes it...
Norma match didn't shoot good in any of my .22s. .22 ammo is like that. Works on some but not in others.
There's a topic that fascinates me.
The idea that rifles like a brand of cartridge.
Interesting, as I may be one of the few that actually has taken the time to try almost every brand and type of rimfire available.
Over a year and a half, shooting across a chronograph.
What I learned was that rifles don't care about brand, only ammo quality.
Rifles don't like poorly made cartridges.
What they like are properly made cartridges with minimal defects and tight muzzle velocities.
Brand is not critical, only quality.
Use crap ammo, you get crap results.
Inspect your ammunition for visible defects before chambering.
Use a ballistic chronograph so as to determine if it was you or mv spread.
Don't go thinking it is always your fault when you get a stray.
The quality of the cartridges being sold today ranges from horrid to decent.
Use your eyes and look at those bullets.
Check for dents, dings, sloppy seating and variations in dimensions.
It will explain what is happening downrange.
The idea that rifles like a brand of cartridge.
Interesting, as I may be one of the few that actually has taken the time to try almost every brand and type of rimfire available.
Over a year and a half, shooting across a chronograph.
What I learned was that rifles don't care about brand, only ammo quality.
Rifles don't like poorly made cartridges.
What they like are properly made cartridges with minimal defects and tight muzzle velocities.
Brand is not critical, only quality.
Use crap ammo, you get crap results.
Inspect your ammunition for visible defects before chambering.
Use a ballistic chronograph so as to determine if it was you or mv spread.
Don't go thinking it is always your fault when you get a stray.
The quality of the cartridges being sold today ranges from horrid to decent.
Use your eyes and look at those bullets.
Check for dents, dings, sloppy seating and variations in dimensions.
It will explain what is happening downrange.
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To a point but an ammo that works in one rifle will not automatically work in another just because it's a quality ammo. Even differing lots can matter. That's part of the reason the test centers test different lots.
I hear ya' R1.
Let me expound a bit more.
What I found was not brand related.
What I found was entirely quality related.
Lot testing is looking for the best made batch of ammo.
The run with the least amount of cartridge defects.
I found that properly made 22lr cartridges
produced consistent trajectories no matter which rifle I used.
From CCI to Eley to Lapua to RWS, we are looking for tight mv's, uniformity in bullet shape and cartridge dimensions.
Rifles have no opinions. Was the cartridge made properly
or were the production tolerances on the assembly line
allowed to slip in order to meet corporate sales requirements?
Let me expound a bit more.
What I found was not brand related.
What I found was entirely quality related.
Lot testing is looking for the best made batch of ammo.
The run with the least amount of cartridge defects.
I found that properly made 22lr cartridges
produced consistent trajectories no matter which rifle I used.
From CCI to Eley to Lapua to RWS, we are looking for tight mv's, uniformity in bullet shape and cartridge dimensions.
Rifles have no opinions. Was the cartridge made properly
or were the production tolerances on the assembly line
allowed to slip in order to meet corporate sales requirements?
I get your testing but again the same ammo can shoot differently in two different rifles. Last week I put Fed UM22 that is sub moa and 6-7SD in my Vudoo in another rifle and it was barely moa and the SD was 20. Same ammo. Different rifles. Buying quality is good but doesn't mean that the ammo will shoot in any rifle. Rifles do have opinions.
Y'er chronograph was telling you something, R1.
You missed it. Rimfire ammo quality is not a constant.
I have chronied multiple boxes, 50 shots at a time, from the same brick of Tenex, same morning,
and recorded different high, low, avg, ES and SD for each box in my 455 Lilja.
Results on target matched the variations in chrony numbers.
Tolerances in primer/powder metering, brass dimensions, bullet shape/ weight and seating
vary over time as the machines loosen/wear and change during the run.
No two boxes of rimfire are the same.
You missed it. Rimfire ammo quality is not a constant.
I have chronied multiple boxes, 50 shots at a time, from the same brick of Tenex, same morning,
and recorded different high, low, avg, ES and SD for each box in my 455 Lilja.
Results on target matched the variations in chrony numbers.
Tolerances in primer/powder metering, brass dimensions, bullet shape/ weight and seating
vary over time as the machines loosen/wear and change during the run.
No two boxes of rimfire are the same.
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Not the same results, R1.
A rifle with a bad crown won't shoot well with any ammo.
A rifle with a rough bore won't produce consistent results.
A rifle with mechanical problems won't function as intended.
But put 2 or 3 decent rifles on the bench,
all will produce better results with properly made cartridges.
Brand is unimportant, only cartridge quality.
Not even cartridges from the same box from the same rifle produce the same results R1.
You know that. The chronograph numbers show you.
1065, 1082, 1075, 1086, 1099, you've seen that happen.
Not even from the same box of ammo produces the same results.
Cartridge quality and consistent mv's are what rifles "like".
Doesn't matter if it's a 10/22 or a custom Blieker.
A rifle with a bad crown won't shoot well with any ammo.
A rifle with a rough bore won't produce consistent results.
A rifle with mechanical problems won't function as intended.
But put 2 or 3 decent rifles on the bench,
all will produce better results with properly made cartridges.
Brand is unimportant, only cartridge quality.
Not even cartridges from the same box from the same rifle produce the same results R1.
You know that. The chronograph numbers show you.
1065, 1082, 1075, 1086, 1099, you've seen that happen.
Not even from the same box of ammo produces the same results.
Cartridge quality and consistent mv's are what rifles "like".
Doesn't matter if it's a 10/22 or a custom Blieker.
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I've shot a fair amount of Aguila, it's fine for practice but not great for accuracy. However, I've also weight sorted it and once doing so it shot very accurately.
I don't weight sort, just tried it once. My mid grades shot decent sorted or not. Now I just watch pricing and try to pick up SK Plus or something comparable when on sale.
I don't weight sort, just tried it once. My mid grades shot decent sorted or not. Now I just watch pricing and try to pick up SK Plus or something comparable when on sale.
The rifle that didn't shoot the Fed good shot a cheaper bulk brand better and with tighter SDs than the Fed. That cheaper ammo shot worse in my Vudoo with higher numbers. Amazing I change nothing but the rifle and the results change. Hmm.
Not just chrono differences as no ammo has a 0 SD. It's good on one but not another rifle. Plain and simple. Sorry if it goes against your years of testing but I might be newer to rimfire but not to rifles and ammo. My results tell me something.
Not just chrono differences as no ammo has a 0 SD. It's good on one but not another rifle. Plain and simple. Sorry if it goes against your years of testing but I might be newer to rimfire but not to rifles and ammo. My results tell me something.
As I said R1, the topic interests me.
Doesn't mean I'm an authority.
I don't have access to a ballistics lab to be able to quantify my conclusions.
Just pointing out that the supposed "like" theory
has a few holes in it.
The biggest one being brand.
If brand were true, I'd still be shooting Wolf ME.
Why? Had a brick once that was phenomenal.
ES was less than 30 fps per 50.
Consistent sub moa at 100 yards. Amazing.
The next brick.... couldn't hold 2 inches.
ES over 80 fps, low quality ammo.
Doesn't mean I'm an authority.
I don't have access to a ballistics lab to be able to quantify my conclusions.
Just pointing out that the supposed "like" theory
has a few holes in it.
The biggest one being brand.
If brand were true, I'd still be shooting Wolf ME.
Why? Had a brick once that was phenomenal.
ES was less than 30 fps per 50.
Consistent sub moa at 100 yards. Amazing.
The next brick.... couldn't hold 2 inches.
ES over 80 fps, low quality ammo.
Justin ,R1
Have you notice one gun likening a certain ammo one day then with slightly different weather conditions say 5-10 degrees , humidity etc nothing drastic , that the groups change ? Say go from a nice pleasant day to a hot humid day and the gun opens up or tightens up or group shifts a few inches ?
Have you notice one gun likening a certain ammo one day then with slightly different weather conditions say 5-10 degrees , humidity etc nothing drastic , that the groups change ? Say go from a nice pleasant day to a hot humid day and the gun opens up or tightens up or group shifts a few inches ?
Hoyt, it wasn't until I started using a chronograph every time I set up at the bench
and began doing visual inspections before chambering, that I began to make sense of what was happening.
Vertical spread relates to mv spread, Random dispersion relates to bullet asymmetry.
Temperature change affects not only the burn rate of the primer/powder, air density
but also the mechanical fit of the rifle components. Change air temp 10 degrees,
you change the metal dimensions of the barrel/receiver, you now have a different rifle in your hands.
It's going to produce different results. Throw in wind and changes in the shooter's body mechanics,
it's a wonder any of us can stay on paper day to day. I make a big deal of visual inspection now,
due to watching what happens with poorly made cartridges while trying all the brands at 200 yards.
If every cartridge has a different shape, how can you expect it to fly a similar trajectory?
Another thing is spinning projectiles don't fly in a clean vertical arc from muzzle to impact.
They spiral around the theoretical arc, as the rotation and tilt/wobble change the angle of attack
relative to direction of travel. Depending on time of flight, point of impact shifts depending
where in the spiral the bullet is as it hits the target.
Video of deliberately misshaped 22lr and it's effects on bullet flight
and began doing visual inspections before chambering, that I began to make sense of what was happening.
Vertical spread relates to mv spread, Random dispersion relates to bullet asymmetry.
Temperature change affects not only the burn rate of the primer/powder, air density
but also the mechanical fit of the rifle components. Change air temp 10 degrees,
you change the metal dimensions of the barrel/receiver, you now have a different rifle in your hands.
It's going to produce different results. Throw in wind and changes in the shooter's body mechanics,
it's a wonder any of us can stay on paper day to day. I make a big deal of visual inspection now,
due to watching what happens with poorly made cartridges while trying all the brands at 200 yards.
If every cartridge has a different shape, how can you expect it to fly a similar trajectory?
Another thing is spinning projectiles don't fly in a clean vertical arc from muzzle to impact.
They spiral around the theoretical arc, as the rotation and tilt/wobble change the angle of attack
relative to direction of travel. Depending on time of flight, point of impact shifts depending
where in the spiral the bullet is as it hits the target.
Video of deliberately misshaped 22lr and it's effects on bullet flight
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You would be surprised. As cheap as rimfire is most people that are seeking the best accuracy will buy 40 different brand/variations to try. Lapua Polar Biathlon shot the best out of my 455, .8 MOA @100 over 10 shots. But for the games I play I am not willing to pay 30+ cents a round for ammo. I would have a hard time believing pretty much any rifle would not shoot it's best groups with Lapua ammo. They have done the research and continue to invest in developing a better all around cartridge.
I'm easily entertained.
This is what has kept me out of trouble for the past year and a half.
www.rimfirecentral.com
This is what has kept me out of trouble for the past year and a half.
50 at 200
I think I've come up with a useful scenario...maybe. :rolleyes: 50 shots at 200 yards, rimfire, whatever setup makes you happy. 22lr, 17 hmr, 22wmr, 17hm2, 17wsm, all brands, all types. Full benchrest setup, bipod, bags or one-piece test rest, it doesn't matter. Grab a chunk of cardboard, about...
www.rimfirecentral.com
Your theories have holes too. I took out all the variables but the rifles. You break it down to try and prove your point that every bullet is different. No really? LOL Just like a centerfire but the small variables don't effect it as much if the rifle's barrel harmonics respond to the round. No ammo has a 0 SD or is exactly alike from round to round but some shoots better in certain rifles. Just is what it is and I don't need to spend years of my life and test hundreds of types of ammo to know it but if that is your gig and it makes you happy then go for it.
As for brand that wasn't part of this conversation but just muddying the water more and the circle speak is continuing. LOL
Thanks for taking the time to read my opinions R1.
I appreciate the counter points you took the time to offer.
If nothing else my thoughts provided you with some humor.
As my forum handle indicates, not a professional, just an amateur.
I appreciate the counter points you took the time to offer.
If nothing else my thoughts provided you with some humor.
As my forum handle indicates, not a professional, just an amateur.
I think that the .22 RF Ammo testing has become a bit cliché to the average guy looking for accurate ammo.
Someone should lay down some basics. I think Justin has done so.
Some thoughts.
Crap ammo will not become accurate in some "special" or "lucky" rifle. The chrono does not lie. If SD's are high accuracy will suffer at range.
Damaged bullets will no go into tiny groups at range due to "your rifle liking it." No rifle will make up for poor quality ammo. I think this is the largest fallacy of the amateur ammo tester.
No ammo will make a poorly made rifle shoot like a well made rifle.
Lots of even top end ammo will vary. The better the ammo, the less the variation.
It's harder to get good groups in cold weather. This is mostly related to ammo temp. Warm ammo fired in cold conditions is similar to warm ammo fired in warm conditions.
Your rifle will have a velocity range it prefers. Once you find that much of the mystery will go away.
Ammo cost very closely tracks accuracy level.
Some rifles seem to be less picky about ammo and velocity nodes than others.
I try to work the equation backwards. What are my accuracy requirements? At what range? What is my budget? I then select ammo based upon that criteria.
I am sure there are some things I am missing. This just off the top of my head.
Someone should lay down some basics. I think Justin has done so.
Some thoughts.
Crap ammo will not become accurate in some "special" or "lucky" rifle. The chrono does not lie. If SD's are high accuracy will suffer at range.
Damaged bullets will no go into tiny groups at range due to "your rifle liking it." No rifle will make up for poor quality ammo. I think this is the largest fallacy of the amateur ammo tester.
No ammo will make a poorly made rifle shoot like a well made rifle.
Lots of even top end ammo will vary. The better the ammo, the less the variation.
It's harder to get good groups in cold weather. This is mostly related to ammo temp. Warm ammo fired in cold conditions is similar to warm ammo fired in warm conditions.
Your rifle will have a velocity range it prefers. Once you find that much of the mystery will go away.
Ammo cost very closely tracks accuracy level.
Some rifles seem to be less picky about ammo and velocity nodes than others.
I try to work the equation backwards. What are my accuracy requirements? At what range? What is my budget? I then select ammo based upon that criteria.
I am sure there are some things I am missing. This just off the top of my head.
Sounds great. Please clarify how ammo with high ES will group well at 100 yards and beyond because "your rifle likes it"?. Physics says it wont. My target results say it wont. Are we getting ballistic miracles?
CCI .22 LR Velocitor shoots well in my little 16" Pac-Lite 10/22. But of course I only need squirrel hunting accuracy.
ballistic miracles?
Whoa! Is it possible?
Place y'er hands upon the cartridges and let them be healed.
Have faith my brethren and lo it shall come to pass.
Wize adze? Me? Oh yeah.
Whoa! Is it possible?
Place y'er hands upon the cartridges and let them be healed.
Have faith my brethren and lo it shall come to pass.
Wize adze? Me? Oh yeah.
What a long thread... I only have personal experience. I bought a brick of Tenex, Match, Target, Contact, SK+, SK LRM so all in the same lot #. I ran 6x5's with my factory T1X. Pretty loose chamber, don't know what it was reamed it, but it showed very consistent results. I have 3 6x5's in Match, Tenex, Target, Contact, etc with it... shot a ton.
Tenex, Average 6x5 - .8" at 100 yards
Match, Average was .9"
Target, Average was 1.15"
SK+, Average was 1.15"
SK LRM, Average was 1.2"
I then bought a new IBI barrel and repeated the 6x5's with the rest of the ammo I had from the same brick.
Target, Average was 1.2"
Match, Average was 1.05"
Tenex, Average was .9"
SK+, Average was .95"
SK LRM, Average was .9"
So quality of the ammo and the ES/SD were the same, but groups widened up and shrunk by about 15% when switching barrels. When people say ammo likes a certain rifle I think there are a few factors.
Headspace - someone had done a few 5x5's with headspacing going from .039 to 0.43 and there was a significant change per thousands of an inch.
Chamber / Feeding - different ammo/lube feed differently. There are some differences in the size, controlled feed V22, great, it goes right in, if my feed angle is from a magazine, and I'm constantly scraping the top of my soft lead bullet into the barrel, that could be a big difference. CCI SV has somewhat longer noses or something. Rim is slightly thicker?
So yeh CCI SV, Lapua, and Eley do have different measurements on their rim thickness and lead bullet. And then when you combine that with rifle's headspace, chambering, and feed angle - I do believe certain ammos can perform better in certain rifles.
I had headspaced my new IBI barrel on the SK ammo, maybe that's why it shoots better than Eley. I could've probably headspaced on Eley, and maybe the reverse would happen. Even though the SK ammo is catching on my barrel and scraping the bottom edge, it still is shooting much better than my T1X factory was shooting it. But I can't get below .9" averages with Tenex, where I was consistently pulling that on my factory barrel. And I've never shot .9" averages on SK+ and I can do that now on my new IBI barrel. So $5 vs $15 a box, I'm happy.
Tenex, Average 6x5 - .8" at 100 yards
Match, Average was .9"
Target, Average was 1.15"
SK+, Average was 1.15"
SK LRM, Average was 1.2"
I then bought a new IBI barrel and repeated the 6x5's with the rest of the ammo I had from the same brick.
Target, Average was 1.2"
Match, Average was 1.05"
Tenex, Average was .9"
SK+, Average was .95"
SK LRM, Average was .9"
So quality of the ammo and the ES/SD were the same, but groups widened up and shrunk by about 15% when switching barrels. When people say ammo likes a certain rifle I think there are a few factors.
Headspace - someone had done a few 5x5's with headspacing going from .039 to 0.43 and there was a significant change per thousands of an inch.
Chamber / Feeding - different ammo/lube feed differently. There are some differences in the size, controlled feed V22, great, it goes right in, if my feed angle is from a magazine, and I'm constantly scraping the top of my soft lead bullet into the barrel, that could be a big difference. CCI SV has somewhat longer noses or something. Rim is slightly thicker?
So yeh CCI SV, Lapua, and Eley do have different measurements on their rim thickness and lead bullet. And then when you combine that with rifle's headspace, chambering, and feed angle - I do believe certain ammos can perform better in certain rifles.
I had headspaced my new IBI barrel on the SK ammo, maybe that's why it shoots better than Eley. I could've probably headspaced on Eley, and maybe the reverse would happen. Even though the SK ammo is catching on my barrel and scraping the bottom edge, it still is shooting much better than my T1X factory was shooting it. But I can't get below .9" averages with Tenex, where I was consistently pulling that on my factory barrel. And I've never shot .9" averages on SK+ and I can do that now on my new IBI barrel. So $5 vs $15 a box, I'm happy.
So just my 2 cents but with my CZ455/Boyds Stock I tried, SK Ammo, Eley, Lapua, CCI Standard and went to the range to not only measure groups but chrono velocity because I wanted the same thing. Basically I found that with my rifle I shoot CCI Standard Velocity ($0.04 cents rd) 90% of the time and it shoots extremely consistent groups and velocity, if I shoot a Match I use SK Standard Plus ($0.11 cents rd) as it shot better groups than anything in my particular rifle. IMO this is a hole that you can go as deep as you want to in with Action Torque LBS, Barrels, Ammo, etc...
Interesting thread, we've been doing the long-range rimfire game a long time and have been running long-range rimfire matches at my house/range for a few years. See some crazy unexplainable stuff that keeps us scratching our heads.
With my personal assortment of precision rimfires some are way less picky such as my Remaining 40X which will shoot $2.06/50 Geco well enough to compete with but wil also shoot the high end stuff. My Russian guns love the cheap Geco and will pound a 3" plate at 197 yards but in some of the others couldn't hit a cow standing broadside at that distance.
My Win 52D will shoot about anything but the 52C is ultra picky and hates anything Eley or RWS. Someone previously mentioned a gun liking a certain velocity and will shoot about anything in that given range well which I find interesting. My better shooting, less picky guns also seem to be less finicky with temp range change than others.
Some ammo I've tried such as the new "LongvRange" stuff didn't impress me much out to 200 yards but it did do well on targets at 400 and 450 yards at Rayner's on a practice day. Could have been a fluke but still makes you wonder.
I don't get into the constant testing and search for lot numbers, I still think a good shooting ammo that will group into 1/2" or better consistently at 50 yards is plenty good enough for our long-range matches. I do like to always have a nice ragged one hole group at 50 yards and that isn't as hard as it sounds with a decent gun and ammo it likes. Most matches will be won by the shooter that can place their shots on target in varying conditions even if t isn't a one hole rig.
Occasionally a match will have targets smaller than the capability of a really good shooting rimfire but then the luck factor comes into play, some might hit it and some will miss but the shooter that pays attention to conditions shot to shot and spends quality trigger time at practice sessions will consistently place higher than someone that thinks it takes a certain lot or ammo brand to win.
Another weird thing I've run into with the upper mid-priced ammo versus the cheaper Geco. The better ammo will shoot tighter groups as far as verticle dispersion but that occasional dropped round falling below a target can make the less tight grouping than the cheaper Geco but I've had far less extreme dropped rounds with it. So, which is better, larger more predictable groups or the hope the dropped shot isn't at a smaller target with the better stuff a better choice? If we get lucky and no dropped rounds then it's better........ So many decisions but that is what shooting rimfires make it so fun and frustrating.
Just my thoughts on it and has no scientific backing other than a lot of trigger and spotting time watching rounds go downrange.
Topstrap
With my personal assortment of precision rimfires some are way less picky such as my Remaining 40X which will shoot $2.06/50 Geco well enough to compete with but wil also shoot the high end stuff. My Russian guns love the cheap Geco and will pound a 3" plate at 197 yards but in some of the others couldn't hit a cow standing broadside at that distance.
My Win 52D will shoot about anything but the 52C is ultra picky and hates anything Eley or RWS. Someone previously mentioned a gun liking a certain velocity and will shoot about anything in that given range well which I find interesting. My better shooting, less picky guns also seem to be less finicky with temp range change than others.
Some ammo I've tried such as the new "LongvRange" stuff didn't impress me much out to 200 yards but it did do well on targets at 400 and 450 yards at Rayner's on a practice day. Could have been a fluke but still makes you wonder.
I don't get into the constant testing and search for lot numbers, I still think a good shooting ammo that will group into 1/2" or better consistently at 50 yards is plenty good enough for our long-range matches. I do like to always have a nice ragged one hole group at 50 yards and that isn't as hard as it sounds with a decent gun and ammo it likes. Most matches will be won by the shooter that can place their shots on target in varying conditions even if t isn't a one hole rig.
Occasionally a match will have targets smaller than the capability of a really good shooting rimfire but then the luck factor comes into play, some might hit it and some will miss but the shooter that pays attention to conditions shot to shot and spends quality trigger time at practice sessions will consistently place higher than someone that thinks it takes a certain lot or ammo brand to win.
Another weird thing I've run into with the upper mid-priced ammo versus the cheaper Geco. The better ammo will shoot tighter groups as far as verticle dispersion but that occasional dropped round falling below a target can make the less tight grouping than the cheaper Geco but I've had far less extreme dropped rounds with it. So, which is better, larger more predictable groups or the hope the dropped shot isn't at a smaller target with the better stuff a better choice? If we get lucky and no dropped rounds then it's better........ So many decisions but that is what shooting rimfires make it so fun and frustrating.
Just my thoughts on it and has no scientific backing other than a lot of trigger and spotting time watching rounds go downrange.
Topstrap
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