Getting an AR put together and wondering what ammo and barrel twist is best. Leaning towards 1000 rounds of some type of M193 ammo. Please advise.
What AR bulk ammo (M193) and twist rate for SHTF gun?
- Thread starter WEATHERBY460
- Start date
I'm surprised by these answers. I would have said M193 or Wolf Gold and either 1:7 or 1:8. In my experience M193 is generally a little more accurate and .04-.05/rd cheaper. Or ADI 69 gr. or IMI Razorcore 77 gr. if you are looking for match ammo.
Why M855 over M193?
Why M855 over M193?
I’d want the penetration of the SS109. Accuracy difference is negligible for non target shooting purposes.
M855 sucks for accuracy. M193 is better, but it sucks too. I’ve been stocking 855, but not to shoot. I pull the bullets, run the case through a bushing die, and seat 55gr bullets to make a “Mexican match” load. Not “match quality,” but shrinks group diameters by 1/2 with any 55gr bullet I’ve tried. And, you can sell the pulled bullets to the tacti-Fudds that think the bullet is magical.
That said, if your SHTF plan is mag dumps into a dirt berm, then either 855 or 193 will be satisfactory.
That said, if your SHTF plan is mag dumps into a dirt berm, then either 855 or 193 will be satisfactory.
....1:8 & 1:7 will give you the greatest flexibility of using ammo loaded with bullets ranging from 55gn thru 77ng weights. For a purchasing plan to accumulate pre-SHTF, it's pretty much get what you can afford as it become available....pretty sure you will end up with a variety of brands/styles, just make sure you actually use/test some of each in your accumulating stash so you know what it's behavior is in your particular rifle(s).
1:7 twist. And as far as which M193 to pick....
M193 is M193 is M193 is supposed to be a 55gr 5.56x45mm NATO spec made to run at a certain pressure/velocity spec no matter the manufacturer; as long as they follow the specs. IMI, Federal, Winchester, MEN, Norma, PPU, CBC, Wolf Gold, PMC, whatever.
Winchester white box 223Rem 55gr does not run as fast as Winchester M193. Both will reliably function in your rifle.
I personally have an assortment of ammo. 55gr steel case for practice n shit. M855 62gr in sealed ammo cans for "OK its real", 77gr for longer range, assorted 55 and 62gr reloads for whatever, and some Gold dots for other buffonery.
If push really came to shove, ammo that reliably cycles and hits roughly where you're pointing will be the correct ammo for the situation. Assorted living tissues at 200-300 yards won't care if a 55gr has a muzzle velocity of 3050 and SD of 40 , or 3175 with a SD of 12. They both will make the receiver of that projectile have a very bad day.
But, whatever you get, BUY MORE OF IT.
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I like the Hornady Frontier 5.56 with 55s. I still have some slower twist rate barrels so these make more sense for me. Not exactly easy to find now.
I sure am glad no one posted up some super fantastic round that I didn't know about.
I just knew this thread was going to cost me a lot of $$$$
I just knew this thread was going to cost me a lot of $$$$
1:7 twist
If money and availability isn't part of the equation, 77gr tipped match kings or regular SMK. Black hills is a good choice.
But in a real SHTF scenario you take whatever you can find or afford.
If money and availability isn't part of the equation, 77gr tipped match kings or regular SMK. Black hills is a good choice.
But in a real SHTF scenario you take whatever you can find or afford.
M193 is not and never was a NATO load; there is no NATO spec for M193. There can be significant differences in the accuracy/precision of M193 from various manufacturers.
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And just when I thought I was free Molon sends me off in search of 56 gr MEN...
Damn that sounds wrong.
Damn that sounds wrong.
Good luck getting 855A1. If you find it, it’ll be >$2/round. It is radically different than ancient M855. I’m sitting on ~2K rounds of it. It likes to punch holes in 1/2” AR500 plates at 100-yards. Regular 855 just leaves a modest divot.
For legit SHTF ammo, pay for some MK262, IMI Razorcore, or other reputable 75/77gr 5.56 OTM. It’s SO much better than 90% of 193 or 855, especially beyond 300 yards. You can actually score effective hits at 500+ reliably.
Also, the newer stuff is WAY better out of shorter barrels.
Lastly, as everyone has already said, 1:7 twist. Always.
For legit SHTF ammo, pay for some MK262, IMI Razorcore, or other reputable 75/77gr 5.56 OTM. It’s SO much better than 90% of 193 or 855, especially beyond 300 yards. You can actually score effective hits at 500+ reliably.
Also, the newer stuff is WAY better out of shorter barrels.
Lastly, as everyone has already said, 1:7 twist. Always.
M855A1
Shark Arms
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Allow me to rephrase, since I was not precise enough.M193 is not and never was a NATO load; there is no NATO spec for M193. There can be significant differences in the accuracy/precision of M193 from various manufacturers.
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M193 is a US Military small arms cartridge designation for use in 5.56x45mm NATO chambered weapons.
And obviously every manufacturer is gonna have differences. Thats a foregone conclusion.
OP was asking for a M193 suggestion for SHTF, and my OPINION was they're all made roughly around the same spec, so pick one and buy a lot of it.
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I think for SHTF you would probably be better off with a case of M855. You can get better accuracy out of a good flavor or M193 but the armor defeating capabilities of M855 makes me lean that way. Or maybe do a 1/2 and 1/2 - 500 rounds M855 and 500 round M193. Your gtg with 1:7 and 1:8 twists. Some variants of M855 like PMC can be fairly accurate.
M855 is on of the most piss poor choices you can make. M855 is not an armor piercing round. M855 doesn’t penetrate as well as a quality barrier blind load such as the 62 grain TBBC, Nosler 64 grain BSB, Speer 62/64/75 grain Gold Dots or monolithic bullets such as the Barnes TSX. M855 doesn’t fragment as well as a heavy OTM bullet. The accuracy of M855 is lame compared to most any OTM bullet.
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1000% percent agree with all that. But it does zip right through level 3 armor like a hot knife through butter. After spending lots of time in gun stores where the rep is telling them to get level 4 plates they opt for level 3 because no one will have green tip or AP rounds. Because of this I always believe it's good to have 3 or 4 mags of M855 laying around. Personal favorite is 50 gr TSX but stocking up on that is a bit of a slow roll.M855 is on of the most piss poor choices you can make. M855 is not an armor piercing round. M855 doesn’t penetrate as well as a quality barrier blind load such as the 62 grain TBBC, Nosler 64 grain BSB, Speer 62/64/75 grain Gold Dots or monolithic bullets such as the Barnes TSX. M855 doesn’t fragment as well as a heavy OTM bullet. The accuracy of M855 is lame compared to most any OTM bullet.
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Here's your MEN ammo from Germany that Molon mentioned .
www.sgammo.com
510 Round Case - 5.56mm M193 56 Grain FMJ Military Ammo Made by MEN in Germany - MEN556A | SGAmmo.com
510 Round Case of 5.56mm M193 56 Grain FMJ Boat Tail Military Ammo for same, Made by MEN in Germany,SKU number MEN556ARecent manufacture - Brass case, copper jacket non-magnetic bullet, boxer primer, non-corrosive, ball powder. Great ammo, limited supplies. 30 rounds per box, 17 boxes per case
This. M855A1 and don't look back. That's the easy button.
If you reload, or have money, then the OTM solution above is viable.
If you reload, or have money, then the OTM solution above is viable.
So, Hornady Frontier 5.56 with 75's. The XM193's shoot awful from a 1:7 twist usually so that's what I've got stockpiled for SHTF. My thinking is it's great as anything else 5.56 up close, but in my gun it shoots better than .5 MOA at 300, and I easily ring an 8" gong everytime at 500, wind willing of course.
I purchased the "MEN." Seems liken the best option for the money out of my current 1x9 M4 gun.
