What are your techniques for muzzle device removal?

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Pseudohero

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Minuteman
Sep 10, 2018
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22
#1
I have removed at least 20 muzzle devices. I use Chamber lug block or barrel vice and a butane torch with great success….. until I came across my 16” sig spear LT. Removed my sig spear 300 blk easily then came tried this dirty #%##. Have put way more heat and torque than usual on 3 attempts. Haven't tried boiling because I have a torch. Going to give it a try because lower and slower may do it but I doubt it based on my limited understanding of metallurgical stuff. I figure a torch expands the muzzle device circumerentially as you appy more heat to the outside making it “looser” and breaking down the rocksett. The advantage of boiling would be breaking down the rocksett more? I could also use a better barrel clamp as a next step.


Here is a pic of my spear 300 blk for proof I am not a total moron.
IMG_4811.jpeg
 
#6
I would start with the boiling water method, a very strong vise (or shop press) with barrel blocks, the correct sized open end wrench, then whack down with a heavy hammer at the end of the wrench to unscrew.
 
#8
For muzzle device work, I always clamp the barrel with jaw inserts.

I don’t like the idea of applying any torque to the barrel extension. Makes no sense to me at all.

The only 2 components that should have force applied to them are the muzzle device and the barrel.

For muzzle devices that won’t budge like this, it’s usually because they are meant for suppressed use and the manufacturer installed with Rocksett. That requires soaking in water to release.
 
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#9
Don't get pissed off at the range and use a channel locks and vice grips on it like I did my last one, that's my advice. :)

Once I got home I put the induction heater around it for just a few seconds and it spun right off. (grumble grumble)
 
#10
i had a sig virtus that the boiling water worked on. 5-10mins and it came off fairly easy.

i read somewhere that guys where sending back to sig for removal because NOTHING worked. thats a fucked up deal too. shame on sig.
 
#12
Butane torch? Do you mean one of those mini torches? I've never had success with those. A propane torch, or MAP gas, has always worked for me. Usually 30 seconds of direct heat is all it has ever taken.
 
#16
I stuck the end in water and left it for two days to soften up the Rocksett. If you haven't removed the barrel and put it in a vice, do so. You can ruin the receiver where the extension pin slots in and indexes as it's aluminum. A few unfortunate owners have ruined their upper receiver.
 
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#18
Ape_Factory said:
I stuck the end in water and left it for two days to soften up the Rocksett. If you haven't removed the barrel and put it in a vice, do so. You can ruin the receiver where the extension pin slots in and indexes as it's aluminum. A few unfortunate owners have ruined their upper receiver.
Click to expand...

on that topic, i recently looked into the geiselle reaction rod. bought one and have barreled a few things with it and used it for flash hider work

is the much of a down side to using the barrel extension this way and putting force on it?
 
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#19
It's actually the preferred way. I have one for my Sig Cross and need to pick up one for the AR's.

Edit: It's important to know what thread locker is being used. If it's Rocksett, heat doesn't work, only water. So heating it and torquing on it like a gorilla and determining that's not working and then moving onto water just increases the chance you'll damage something.
 
#20
Reaction rod is a waste of money. Its a rip off of the KAC wrench and Brownell ar action wrench. The Brownell is a fraction of the cost. I had a buddy mill flats on either side to give you another option than the 1/2" drive.
 
#21
tucaz said:
on that topic, i recently looked into the geiselle reaction rod. bought one and have barreled a few things with it and used it for flash hider work

is the much of a down side to using the barrel extension this way and putting force on it?
Click to expand...
I would not use any reaction rod for muzzle devices. They might be fine for MD installation at 20-35 lb-ft , but for removal where considerably higher torque is sometimes required, you run the risk or unthreading the barrel from the extension. Barrel blocks are the preferred method, and you can get them for under $20 including shipping.

edit: sp
 
Last edited:
#23
this KAC wrench? thats different than the geiselle reaction rod. it goes into the barrel extension and locks up on the splines.

i needed it for doing a left handed upper. not many options for lefty shit.

how can using not using for high force applications though.
 

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#25
Kroil, boiling, torch. Still no luck. Have a heavy duty barrel vice en route.

I heard 80 grit sand paper grit on barrel side in the vice works well. Going to give it a shot soon.
 
#26
I only use rocksett because it holds up to high heat, but very easily removed with a long soak in water…or a short dip in boiling water.

Always use a reaction rod in the vice too so rhe torque is transmitted to the strongest part of the upper (the barrel extension) vs the lugs on the receiver.
 
#27
91Eunozs said:
I only use rocksett because it holds up to high heat, but very easily removed with a long soak in water…or a short dip in boiling water.

Always use a reaction rod in the vice too so rhe torque is transmitted to the strongest part of the upper (the barrel extension) vs the lugs on the receiver.
Click to expand...
I use a reaction rod also on ARs but it doesn’t fit the spear lt. I haven’t seen one for the spear in the commercial market but I am sure they would sell well given my experience with this barrel.
 
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#28
I’ve removed 4 Spear LT hiders without issue.
1. 2hr soak with boiling water
2. Midwest Industries barrel ext bar
3. Correct muzzle device tool
4. 18” breaker bar
 
#29
I just used a MAP torch on the flash hider for about 15 seconds (rotating barrel) and used an 8inch adjustable wrench and it just spun off with a muffled pop when the hot locktite met the air.
 
#30
mrtoyz said:
I’ve removed 4 Spear LT hiders without issue.
1. 2hr soak with boiling water
2. Midwest Industries barrel ext bar
3. Correct muzzle device tool
4. 18” breaker bar
Click to expand...
Does midwest make a reaction rod which fits the spear? That would be key.

2 hour boil? I tried 45 minutes and that didn’t do it.

I did 2 spear lts with just the real avid vice and clamps with no issue but this one has been a bitch.
 
#33
Hit it three times hard with a dead blow hammer on the face of the MD. On Sigs, you need to break through both the rockset and the barrel's taper mount.
 
#34
Is Sig using Rockset confirmed? Must be recent, cause the two Sig rifles I own (516 and 716) had nothing on the threads from factory. They were tight, but a little heat and a big wrench and they spun right off.
 
#36
Arc Light said:
Is Sig using Rockset confirmed? Must be recent, cause the two Sig rifles I own (516 and 716) had nothing on the threads from factory. They were tight, but a little heat and a big wrench and they spun right off.
Click to expand...
the monk said:
Rattlers I have worked on the last year or so have
Click to expand...

I called SIG about my MPX carbine. I wanted the muzzle brake off to suppress it. I confirmed that it was left-hand threads but they did not use any Rockset or LocTite.

I told them that I was having a heck of a time removing the muzzle-brake and was assured that they didn't use anything on the threads.

So I used a blow-torch on it for darn near 5 minutes or more, it finally popped loose.
 
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#37
msgriff said:
I would not use any reaction rod for muzzle devices. They might be fine for MD installation at 20-35 lb-ft , but for removal where considerably higher torque is sometimes required, you run the risk or unthreading the barrel from the extension. Barrel blocks are the preferred method, and you can get them for under $20 including shipping.

edit: sp
Click to expand...
Nah. Bad call.

A reaction rod is the way to go; any properly installed barrel extension can handle it (they're installed between 100-150 ft-lb* depending who made it, and often with red locktite too). If the barrel extension comes loose, it needed to be re-installed correctly anyway.

The reaction rod doesn't put any stress on the upper receiver the way vise blocks do, and doesn't mar the barrel the way barrel blocks do when people just put them in a vise. If you have a proper barrel vise, great, but that requires removing the handguard most of the time. A reaction rod eliminates all of that and can apply more than enough torque.

I have seen and fixed a couple of barrel extensions that unscrewed when someone tried to remove a muzzle device - they were all low end barrels that needed to have the extensions re-installed anyway. Some red 243 Loctite and torque in a barrel vise made them better than new. Personally if one of my barrels was in that condition, I'd rather know and fix it. A barrel extension torqued down right won't be hurt by using a reaction rod for muzzle devices. FWIW the Brownells version of a reaction rod is the way to go IMO - the long one not their short one. Made of good steel and lasts forever. A breaker bar mounted in the vise with the reaction rod on top makes it easy; the upper never needs to be clamped down to anything.

*I make my own barrels for some of my ARs, so not just guessing at this.
 
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#38
On the 3 sig's I've popped off, zero evidence of anything on the threads. Not knowing what they did or didn't put on, I soaked with boiling water, adding more once, about 30 mins, large adjustable wrench and one whack with a mallet. I think it's the torque they apply in addition to the taper friction. Now the one MPX I saw a guy beating on, I had to remind him it's LH!:oops:
 
#41
RTH1800 said:
Wondering if it could be pinned and welded?
Click to expand...

Possibly, but IME usually a pinned & welded muzzle device will start to move slightly before stopping hard against the pin (or sometimes continuing to unthread, with more resistance, depending on the pinning method). If it's stuck tight and won't budge at all even with heat, it's probably a combo of torque and Rockset. Boiling water and lots of torque should do it.

FWIW to the broader thread - I prefer using blue Loctite #243 because of the muzzle devices I've encountered like this thread is discussing. Water can't always penetrate into the threads well enough, and if someone used a lot of Rockset it can be a real bear to remove. Loctite on the other hand can always be broken down with heat, but not so easily as to come loose with any kind of normal shooting. (I don't do full auto or bubba bump fire gravel pit kid stuff though.) I've removed muzzle devices I installed with #243 years later, and still had to apply heat to get them off even after thousands of rounds. Of course if you like to rapid fire until your barrel smokes and changes colors, maybe stick with Rockset.
 
#42
Finally got it. I tried to boil it multiple times. Propane torch multiple times. Lead shims, and leather shims in the barrel vice. Had a 3 foot breaker bar with a real avid adapter for three prong muzzle devices. For what was going to be my final and last attempt i put the endnof the barrel in an ultrasonic cleaner with a small amount of kroil and a bag duct taped to seal at the end of the barrel. This may have loosened it, but it still wouldn’t budge. I heated the piss out of it with the propane torch to the point where flame was shooting out of the end from kroil. Destroyed the muzzle device but fuuucckk that piece of shit.
IMG_6098.jpeg
 
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#45
Wow, I think you own the record for the longest attempted muzzle device removal in SH history ;)

Glad you finally got it off, and WTF with Sig not knowing what kind of thread locker they use? My rifles had nothing, others had loctite, and yet others Rockset.
 
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#47
Yondering said:
Nah. Bad call.

A reaction rod is the way to go; any properly installed barrel extension can handle it (they're installed between 100-150 ft-lb* depending who made it, and often with red locktite too). If the barrel extension comes loose, it needed to be re-installed correctly anyway.

The reaction rod doesn't put any stress on the upper receiver the way vise blocks do, and doesn't mar the barrel the way barrel blocks do when people just put them in a vise. If you have a proper barrel vise, great, but that requires removing the handguard most of the time. A reaction rod eliminates all of that and can apply more than enough torque.

I have seen and fixed a couple of barrel extensions that unscrewed when someone tried to remove a muzzle device - they were all low end barrels that needed to have the extensions re-installed anyway. Some red 243 Loctite and torque in a barrel vise made them better than new. Personally if one of my barrels was in that condition, I'd rather know and fix it. A barrel extension torqued down right won't be hurt by using a reaction rod for muzzle devices. FWIW the Brownells version of a reaction rod is the way to go IMO - the long one not their short one. Made of good steel and lasts forever. A breaker bar mounted in the vise with the reaction rod on top makes it easy; the upper never needs to be clamped down to anything.

*I make my own barrels for some of my ARs, so not just guessing at this.
Click to expand...
SOTAR put out an excellent video on this recently and demonstrated all of the reaction rods, receiver clamshells, receiver inserts, and fixtures for doing barrel nut installation or removal.

The Geissele reaction rod had some of the issues that most of the other fixtures had.

 
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#48
Arc Light said:
Wow, I think you own the record for the longest attempted muzzle device removal in SH history ;)

Glad you finally got it off, and WTF with Sig not knowing what kind of thread locker they use? My rifles had nothing, others had loctite, and yet others Rockset.
Click to expand...
Lol. Is been like 6 months. Was going through my project drawer today and saw that barrel. A surge of anger overcame me and I was like “this mfer is coming off today no matter what!” I was going to cut the muzzle device to the end of where I thought the threads were in the barrel and then cut it longitudinally from two sides and crack it open like a rock.
 
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#49
Pseudohero said:
Lol. Is been like 6 months. Was going through my project drawer today and saw that barrel. A surge of anger overcame me and I was like “this mfer is coming off today no matter what!” I was going to cut the muzzle device to the end of where I thought the threads were in the barrel and then cut it longitudinally from two sides and crack it open like a rock.
Click to expand...
I, being the old codger I am would just send it to D.Wilson to have them take care of it.
 
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