What caliber for my next bolt gun?

[Doug k 042414]

Hey all!
Pretty new here and have only been reloading for a few years. In that time I have looked to the threads here as a consigliere on matters that do not make sense at times. I am thinking of finally taking a crack at PRS and need to know where you guys thing wild cats are heading in the next year or so.

I am currently planning on running a .260 rem for Bushnell this year, but after a thorough load dev process with Lapua 136 gr scenar l’s, I fell into the .260/6.5cm-vld trap. I have bullets that are at mag length that are not getting enough lift to get to the chamber prior to hitting the barrel. I am running a Lilja 20” .260 rem barrel that does not have a forcing cone cut into it. So back to the bench!

The long and short of it is... I don’t want to have this happen again! So as of this moment I am running a bolt .308, a jp .224 valk, and a .260 rem (gas).

So what do you think? What should I build and why?

 

[mensajd]

Hey all!
Pretty new here and have only been reloading for a few years. In that time I have looked to the threads here as a consigliere on matters that do not make sense at times. I am thinking of finally taking a crack at PRS and need to know where you guys thing wild cats are heading in the next year or so.

I am currently planning on running a .260 rem for Bushnell this year, but after a thorough load dev process with Lapua 136 gr scenar l’s, I fell into the .260/6.5cm-vld trap. I have bullets that are at mag length that are not getting enough lift to get to the chamber prior to hitting the barrel. I am running a Lilja 20” .260 rem barrel that does not have a forcing cone cut into it. So back to the bench!

The long and short of it is... I don’t want to have this happen again! So as of this moment I am running a bolt .308, a jp .224 valk, and a .260 rem (gas).

So what do you think? What should I build and why?

Why pose this query in a semi-auto forum?

 

[Codiekfx400]

6.5 Creedmoor

 

[Blutroop]

.17 loudenboomer

 

[squishee]

Why pose this query in a semi-auto forum?

To kick a hornets nest?

 

[Doug k 042414]

To kick a hornets nest?

Ha!
Sorry I wasn’t paying attention to that. No not to stir stuff up

 

[Doug k 042414]

Ha!
Sorry I wasn’t paying attention to that. No not to stir stuff up

Well with all that in mind, if I were to choose gas again, is anyone running into the 6.5/.260 rem issue with VLD style bullets pushing a 6mm variant? Or (and I know this is a long shot) are there any companies out there who are milling feed ramps for barrel extensions that will lift the more narrow diameter bullets faster than the typical .308 barrel extension? I think if someone did, it would allow for a more diverse use of ammo for gas guns. Like my initial post stated, my Lilja 20” .260 barrel came without a forcing/feeding cone. I didn’t notice that until it was too late and I do not want that to ever happen again.

My bad on posting on the wrong forum... I’m a cherry on this site! But while I have someone’s attention... make my brain big!

Second pic (pretty crappy) is of my extension and barrel. The first is of my final load dev group prior to my discovery. So the barrel and occasionally myself are capable of getting around 1/4 moa. On the barrel pic, If you look closely, you can see where the meplat has been striking the barrel at the 5&7-o’clock .

 

[Midwest Optics]

6.5 crredmoor

 

[Reverie Ranges]

First question: For what purpose is this rifle filling in your arms room and range? Is it being built for distance, specific purpose, for fun shoots? I would think about working backwards from the solution to narrow what your choices should be; then propose a listing of you top 3 choices for input. $0.02

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I think that the reasoning might be able to take a small turn/detour, and come out ahead.

As I read it, the problem appears to be related to VLD's and magazine feeding. My usual suggestion in such cases has been to suggest using the 140SMK for this kind of application; but I'm changing that for me, and suggesting similar for you.

I'm redoing all of my .223/5.56, 6.5G, .260, and .308 handloads to incorporate Speer Gold Dot bullets; and just took delivery of my first batch of 6.5mm 140gr SGD's (Speer Gold Dots). Just holding them up alongside the 143 ELD-X, there's about 1/4" difference in length. I think that's a world of difference regarding magazine length feeding, and regaining some more case capacity that's normally sacrificed to get the ELD's in with the program.

Like the Lapua D Series, it has a rebated base. I think that achieves an aerodynamic benefit similar to a full length boattail. The meplat on the 'protected soft point' is slightly truncated. I think that's where the non-ELD BC loss takes place, but I'm not wringing my hands over it because the bullet design and the specific bullet seems to be getting good accuracy reviews.

I've been shooting the .260 since 2001, and it's the solid favorite for my LR 6.5mm class firearm chambering. I am also doing load development on the 6.5 Grendel for distances significantly less than 1000yd. I've been doing my SGD development with the 120SGD and 6.5G and it's looking like it's coming around in a quite conventional and logical manner. The next few outings will tell me if the design is a true winner.

With a G1 BC of .571, the 140SGD's not the slickest kid on the block, but it's not really doing all that bad in the BC department, either. Back when I was starting out; it was the 140SMK or bupkis, we were very happy with a G1 BC of .535 then, and it did just fine at 1Km out of a 24" factory barrel at Whittington. These days its a 28" Lothar-Walther, and I'm going to add H-4831SC to the powder list alongside H-4350.

Since then, some years of F Open 1000yd comps in the rear view, and some odder truths have come to mind. BC is nice, but it's seldom utterly crucial. As long as the round arrives above transsonic (I use 1300fps), and the dope is good; it's all about wind skills and nobody's perfect on that score when the stress wick is turned up.

IMHO, there are more important factors; and in the gas gun, feeding is a must. Optimizing case capacity is also useful; and even if you don't use the space for more powder, it can reduce pressure spikes to become a better mannered Semi load.

I suggest you try the 140SGD and work up a load before you go down the garden path looking at bringing a whole new gun and chambering into the picture with a new season looming.

Oh...; and it's got some pretty decent terminal performance too, I hear...

And finally, I just mounted up a Bushnell AR Drop Zone 6.5CM BDC scope on the 260 bolt gun. It won't be perfect, but it'll be close; and any BDC scope firing solution is going to vary with altitude anyway.

Greg

 

[ChitownCopper]

Get the new 500 blackout

 

[deersniper]

22 Creedmoor

 

[Doug k 042414]

First question: For what purpose is this rifle filling in your arms room and range? Is it being built for distance, specific purpose, for fun shoots? I would think about working backwards from the solution to narrow what your choices should be; then propose a listing of you top 3 choices for input. $0.02

Great question. I ran my first major comp this last weekend, and found that i need more of that in my life. There are certain things that the military is “stuck in a rut” when training. I want to compete more, but with the environment for this last comp, it will need to be something that can buck the wind either by mass or speed. I was looking at the 6mm area and am currently stuck between dasher and the GT. Got any experience with either, or whit a case that will preform similarly? Thanks

 

[Doug k 042414]

I think that the reasoning might be able to take a small turn/detour, and come out ahead.

As I read it, the problem appears to be related to VLD's and magazine feeding. My usual suggestion in such cases has been to suggest using the 140SMK for this kind of application; but I'm changing that for me, and suggesting similar for you.

I'm redoing all of my .223/5.56, 6.5G, .260, and .308 handloads to incorporate Speer Gold Dot bullets; and just took delivery of my first batch of 6.5mm 140gr SGD's (Speer Gold Dots). Just holding them up alongside the 143 ELD-X, there's about 1/4" difference in length. I think that's a world of difference regarding magazine length feeding, and regaining some more case capacity that's normally sacrificed to get the ELD's in with the program.

Like the Lapua D Series, it has a rebated base. I think that achieves an aerodynamic benefit similar to a full length boattail. The meplat on the 'protected soft point' is slightly truncated. I think that's where the non-ELD BC loss takes place, but I'm not wringing my hands over it because the bullet design and the specific bullet seems to be getting good accuracy reviews.

I've been shooting the .260 since 2001, and it's the solid favorite for my LR 6.5mm class firearm chambering. I am also doing load development on the 6.5 Grendel for distances significantly less than 1000yd. I've been doing my SGD development with the 120SGD and 6.5G and it's looking like it's coming around in a quite conventional and logical manner. The next few outings will tell me if the design is a true winner.

With a G1 BC of .571, the 140SGD's not the slickest kid on the block, but it's not really doing all that bad in the BC department, either. Back when I was starting out; it was the 140SMK or bupkis, we were very happy with a G1 BC of .535 then, and it did just fine at 1Km out of a 24" factory barrel at Whittington. These days its a 28" Lothar-Walther, and I'm going to add H-4831SC to the powder list alongside H-4350.

Since then, some years of F Open 1000yd comps in the rear view, and some odder truths have come to mind. BC is nice, but it's seldom utterly crucial. As long as the round arrives above transsonic (I use 1300fps), and the dope is good; it's all about wind skills and nobody's perfect on that score when the stress wick is turned up.

IMHO, there are more important factors; and in the gas gun, feeding is a must. Optimizing case capacity is also useful; and even if you don't use the space for more powder, it can reduce pressure spikes to become a better mannered Semi load.

I suggest you try the 140SGD and work up a load before you go down the garden path looking at bringing a whole new gun and chambering into the picture with a new season looming.

Oh...; and it's got some pretty decent terminal performance too, I hear...

And finally, I just mounted up a Bushnell AR Drop Zone 6.5CM BDC scope on the 260 bolt gun. It won't be perfect, but it'll be close; and any BDC scope firing solution is going to vary with altitude anyway.

Greg

Nice! I will have to check them out. I ran the 123 ELDs which were good, but the wind was hell on that projectile at range. I like Reloader 16 over 4350 (only went away from 4350 because of pressure signs). I made a huge error getting a 20” barrel, but on some of my stages this last weekend, having less weight was better than the alternative. I will look into 4831 sc. Thanks!

 

[oldfatguy]

Must be a reason the 6.5 Creedmore is so popular.

OFG

 

[Reverie Ranges]

I pretty much deal with .308 175 SMK due to previous profession. I would think of moving up to 338LM or 300WM as that is the other rounds I have personally observed good results out of. I'm not sure of your match restrictions or personal needs of the round. IMO, I would reduce choices by working backward from the problem to get your answer. Use, restrictions, best individual bullet, best casing results, and best rifle for round.

 

[Matt_3479]

I’d play with a few options;

in the 6mm category
-6mm creed, excellent speed, excellent brass, shoots very well (mines in the .2’s-.3’s)
-6dasher or new 6gt, good speed, excellent brass just not as many options, suppose to be easier to tune, larger nodes and accurate as hell
25 category
- new 131 blackjacks are making wave with higher then norm bc’s. Larger then both 6 and most 6.5 offerings
- 25 creed lower recoil then a 6.5, significant increase in bc of 6mm plus better barrel life
- 25 sst adg brass and smoking speads!!! Something to strongly consider
6.5 category
-6.5 creed is tough to beat. Better feeding from mag with heavies over 260 (personally shoot a 260 and love it)
-6.5x47 Lapua good brass, super accurate, can be finicky
-6.5 prc additional speeds can help with wind calls but higher recoil!!

 

[Doug k 042414]

I’d play with a few options;

in the 6mm category
-6mm creed, excellent speed, excellent brass, shoots very well (mines in the .2’s-.3’s)
-6dasher or new 6gt, good speed, excellent brass just not as many options, suppose to be easier to tune, larger nodes and accurate as hell
25 category
- new 131 blackjacks are making wave with higher then norm bc’s. Larger then both 6 and most 6.5 offerings
- 25 creed lower recoil then a 6.5, significant increase in bc of 6mm plus better barrel life
- 25 sst adg brass and smoking speads!!! Something to strongly consider
6.5 category
-6.5 creed is tough to beat. Better feeding from mag with heavies over 260 (personally shoot a 260 and love it)
-6.5x47 Lapua good brass, super accurate, can be finicky
-6.5 prc additional speeds can help with wind calls but higher recoil!!

Sweet! Thanks! I was looking at the GT, but died laughing at the forum on it. My .260 ran pretty well at Bushnell. It needs work though. It’s fun to shoot and easy to load for. I picked up a 50% off a jj rock action. So that gets me back on a bolt gun while I revamp the .260 gas gun. Now I just need a side hustle to pay for it all

 

[Supersubes]

You should definitely go gay!

 

[Doug k 042414]

You should definitely go gay! View attachment 7263582

Holy crap that’s amazing!!!!

 

[natdscott]

I think you should buy, then shoot, more ammo in the rifles you have.

 

[Doug k 042414]

I think you should buy, then shoot, more ammo in the rifles you have.

Fair point! I think I should too.

 

[FjallJager]

8mm PRC with a 1 in 18 inch barrel for 8mm Nambu bullets, at 3800 FPS.

 

[hunter1959]

what ever is a common round that you can pick up off the ground after a fire fight

 

[bfoosh006]

Have you tried a variety of magazines ? A different brand may present the cartridge at a slightly "better" angle.... ( maybe )

 

[Doug k 042414]

8mm PRC with a 1 in 18 inch barrel for 8mm Nambu bullets, at 3800 FPS.

yeah the best mags I found so far are the DMI steel mags. Feed angle is something I can look into. I think the real issue is that 6.5 and 6mm bullets of a more tangent style will not feed properly in a gas gun until someone smarter designs large frame ar barrel extensions designed to feed smaller diameter bullets. The .308 ramps are too wide for these calibers

 

[aggiez28]

300 prc

 

[mtnhunter22]

Love the 6.5 but have also really enjoyed the 6GT this year.

as stated above, the smaller creeds could also be a good choice.