What Caliber?

[DoubleGobble00]

I just bought a BAT 1.55 MB action with a magnum bolt face and a cheytac bolt face. What should I build for extreme long range shooting with the best wind advantage? I am thinking something like the 338 snipetac, 375 cheytac, etc. Might could trade the magnum bolt for Lapua 338 bolt. I would like to stick with the 338 bullets since they are becoming more and more available. Seems like through all my reading the 375 just gives you more thump but not more wind advantage. Velocity of the 338 seems to trump the 375.

What would you build and why? It will be built in a McMillan A5 with painkiller muzzlebrake and jewel 2oz trigger. This will be a single shot.

DoubleG

 

[Wild_Bill]

Re: What Caliber?

if you are not woried about barrel life the 338 snipe tac if you are woried about the barrel life and want to have half as much again the 375 snipe tac. the 338 will shoot flatter but the 375 can launch heavier projectiles. at the extreme ranges the 338 has an edge because of the higher velocity and a similar BC it will retain the velocity and in the end have more energy than a 375. so either will work the 338 is superior but inferior in barrel life. i would say 338 snipe tac toast in 1000 rounds.

Cant have a free lunch if you drive a race car you have to pay for the fuel and tires aswell as the servicing.

 

[little__georges]

Re: What Caliber?

I´m thinking about building a 338snipe tac my self, hope you don´t mind borrowing your tread for a question.

What is the felt recoil comparable to? (with recoil brake)
Heard it would be like a 300win mag??

 

[JC Steel]

Re: What Caliber?

Yeah you should stay with the 338 for sure. The bergers that will come out soon are going to be tough to beat. 338 lapua or sniptac

 

[Goin'Hot]

Re: What Caliber?

I vote 338 snipetac for all above stated reasons.

 

[DoubleGobble00]

Re: What Caliber?

Thanks for all the help and information. Seems like the 408 case necked down to a 338 is the way to go. I look forward to the berger 338 bullets. This will definitely be an expensive gun to shoot. I am okay with the brass cost, bullet cost, but don't know what to expect for powder, dies, or if I would need a special press. Here are a few more questions for you.

1) If I was to do a 338 snipetac, 338 Allen mag, or 338-408 improved... Would I have to send my parts to the gunsmith who designed or developed the round to get my barrel chambered? Or can you rent reamers so a local gunsmith can chamber my barrel?

2) Who makes dies for these rounds and how much do they cost?

3) What type of powder is most common? Is it more expensive than regular powders?

4) What scope would stand up to the recoil with muzzle brake? Would a NXS be my only choice?

5) I have a Rocker Chucker Supreme press.. Is that big enough?

I want to get a good idea of what I am getting myself into. Since I have the magnum bolt, I can always build a 300 win mag for now and then build a 338/408 later on down the road when more $$$ would be coming in. So before I bite the bullet, I am just trying to get my head wrapped around the cost of this bad boy. Also, the cost could determine how many guns I need to sell to complete this build.

Thanks again,

DoubleG

 

[Louis Corkern]

Re: What Caliber?

My vote is the 375/408 as it dominates everything past 2000m. Just read all the ballistic data beyond that distance. Dave would have had no reason to even bother with the 375 snipetac IF the 338 snipetac was all that and a box of cherries compared to the 375/408

Thanks

 

[TresMon]

Re: What Caliber?


I have been thinking the same subjects. Maybe old news on this board, but I just came across that the Army & Marines have started thoughts & research into a 5000m sniper rifle. The first question that popped up in my mind is why not use a rocket, mortar etc, but the article answered my question by saying it was specifically a miniumum casulty, anti personal system using HE bullets. Hit the dude, or the wall next to him and he's KIA, without bringing the wall/roof down on others...

Per A friend who is on a first name basis with SOTIC instructors "We have shot it all, people bring all kinds of systems here" ""Cheytac's are no were NEAR what they are proported to be.""

Seems to me for now the best long range stuff is the big magnum 338's.

A 5000m rifle? I'd guess it would have to be a refined cartridge based off the Soviet 14.5x114mm round or a 20mm. both DWARFING the .50 BMG.

 

[DoubleGobble00]

Re: What Caliber?

Thanks for all the help and information. I appreciate it. Looks like the 338/408 is the way to go. Now, I just have to determine if I can afford to build it.. ha.

DoubleG

 

[GasLight]

Re: What Caliber?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TresMon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I have been thinking the same subjects. Maybe old news on this board, but I just came across that the Army & Marines have started thoughts & research into a 5000m sniper rifle. The first question that popped up in my mind is why not use a rocket, mortar etc, but the article answered my question by saying it was specifically a miniumum casulty, anti personal system using HE bullets. Hit the dude, or the wall next to him and he's KIA, without bringing the wall/roof down on others...

Per A friend who is on a first name basis with SOTIC instructors "We have shot it all, people bring all kinds of systems here" ""Cheytac's are no were NEAR what they are proported to be.""

Seems to me for now the best long range stuff is the big magnum 338's.

A 5000m rifle? I'd guess it would have to be a refined cartridge based off the Soviet 14.5x114mm round or a 20mm. both DWARFING the .50 BMG.

</div></div>

Just to be clear was your buddy talking about the CheyTac systems or the calibers?

Also, everyone here is speculating a ton, where are the ballistic charts to support the claims of .338 being the go to over the .375?

Thanks

 

[Oodin]

Re: What Caliber?

This research favors the 375/408.

Link

 

[RussW1911]

Re: What Caliber?

Everyone who thinks that any 338 is better than the big .375's is smoking some good wacky tobacky and should pass it along.

 

[Augustus]

Re: What Caliber?

Yep, I would like to see someone explain how the 338 snipe-tac exceeds the longrange capability of the 375. Out of 30 in tubes I am getting around 3250 fps from the 300 gr smk 338 Snipe-tac. The standard 375 will launch a 400 gr solid to around 3150 and a 369 gr solid to above 3200. In the improved 375 cases one could expect another 100 to 150 fps. The optimum 375 projectiles are going to have higher BCs than the optimum 338 versions. Longer barrels may favor the 338 to some degree but only marginally. If you compare apples to apples with respect to barrel length and optimized projectiles out of each chambering, the 375 will kick the 338 dead in the arse.

 

[DoubleGobble00]

Re: What Caliber?

The research favors the 375/408 in that link because the BC of that 375 bullet was 1.120 and the 338 bullet had a BC of .838. The 375 bullet must have been a solid copper bullet. The highest claimed BC's I have found are from Rocky Mountain bullets. The 375 in 370 grain has a BC = 0.948 and the 338 in 325 grain has a BC = 1.017. If you ran the numbers again with these BCs there could be a big difference.

For reading.. It seems to me the 338/408 trumps the 375/408 right now due to the lack of 375 bullets. The higher BC 338 bullets pushing at higher velocities than the 375 seem to match up. The 375 does have more punch when it arrives but the 338 has plenty punch in my opinion.

Once berger delivers there 338 bullets it is going to be on!

DoubleG

 

[Louis Corkern]

Re: What Caliber?

That research favors the 375/408 due to that 1.12 BC of the 350gr solid is correct and also coming from 10s of thousands of rounds thru the various 375s that I have had over the past few years. If the RMB are the highest claimed BC you have found then you are not looking hard enough. All it takes is a phone call to Terri Shoupe at Jamison (Cheytac) and get the J40 or M40 350gr solids.

Also note that you mention velocity is higher with the 338s BUT trust me velocity is not the name of this game. In this game the projectile design, weight, rifling profile, and mv must all be matched to compliment each other and not just a lighter bullet stuck on bigger case.

Even with the Berger 338s it is not even going to be a comparison in the ELR scheme of things. If you are shooting under 2000m then do not bother with a 375.

Thanks

 

[DoubleGobble00]

Re: What Caliber?

I was mainly thinking of bullets that could be used for hunting and excluding all solid bullets. Are there other hunting style bullets with higher BCs than the Rocky Mountains? I know the HATS aluminum tips are high also. The solid bullets do have some fantastic BCs but I have always thought of them not to be hunting bullets. I don't know that for a fact cause I have never shot a solid at an animal.

Yeah, I was focusing on under 2000m and wind advantage of each round. Would the 375 have a better wind advantage with a non solid bullet under 2000m?

I now see your point... Once you get past 2000m the lbs of the 375 will come in handy but under 2000m do they make a differenc besides ft-lbs of energy?

DoubleG

 

[GasLight]

Re: What Caliber?

Lehigh 330 grain BC .941
Jamison 350 grain BC 1.12
Predator 350 grain BC .95
And Noel Carlson was/is making a selection of extreme high BC bullets for the .375.

Run the numbers on any of the above and you will see better results than the lead core Rocky Mountain bullets...

 

[GasLight]

Re: What Caliber?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DoubleGobble00</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was mainly thinking of bullets that could be used for hunting and excluding all solid bullets. Are there other hunting style bullets with higher BCs than the Rocky Mountains? I know the HATS aluminum tips are high also. The solid bullets do have some fantastic BCs but I have always thought of them not to be hunting bullets. I don't know that for a fact cause I have never shot a solid at an animal.

Yeah, I was focusing on under 2000m and wind advantage of each round. Would the 375 have a better wind advantage with a non solid bullet under 2000m?

I now see your point... Once you get past 2000m the lbs of the 375 will come in handy but under 2000m do they make a differenc besides ft-lbs of energy?

DoubleG</div></div>

Why can't you hunt with a solid? Anything hit in a kill zone with either a .338 or a .375 solid are going to die in a rapid fashion. Ask the guys hunting dangerous game in Africa how solids work

 

[DoubleGobble00]

Re: What Caliber?

I guess you can hunt with a solid. I guess they were just excluded from the equation in my mind. They do have some fantastic BCs. I will have to look into them some more.

Keep it up.. I think my eyes are starting to open. I need new ideas to play with.

DoubleG

 

[Augustus]

Re: What Caliber?

Be patient, this game is in its infancy, there are projos in the pipeline that will make you wee in your panties. If the technology lives up to expectation all calibers will see significant improvements. Also dont take me wrong, the 338/408 is a mean machine and fun to shoot. I am just partial to the standard 375/408 for a variety of reasons.

 

[strictlyRUM]

Re: What Caliber?



Why can't you hunt with a solid? Anything hit in a kill zone with either a .338 or a .375 solid are going to die in a rapid fashion. Ask the guys hunting dangerous game in Africa how solids work

Its illeagal in alot of states!

Jason