What could savage change?

[Jackomason]

Saw this post today and it kinda made me chuckle but then made me think.

What do you think the competitors that win one of these rifles are shooting? Let alone what their children are shooting? What do you think they will do with the rifle when it gets home?

So what could savage do to get their foot in the door other than the in effective means of just buying their way in?

I'm not generally a savage fan but I can recognize what they've done and what they are trying to do. I think a all new revamp, a new "custom" action with all the bells and whistles might just put them in the game. What do you think?

 

[A&8's]

So what could savage do to get their foot in the door other than the in effective means of just buying their way in?

Well, they are the "official" gas gun for the PRS. Just as Daniel Defense is the "Official" bolt gun. Although, I know of no top level competitor shooting either.

I do, however, find it odd Savage is giving away bolts guns, though.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Pay tikka to make their actions and put their name on it........

 

[Jackomason]

Well, they are the "official" gas gun for the PRS. Just as Daniel Defense is the "Official" bolt gun. Although, I know of no top level competitor shooting either.

I do, however, find it odd Savage is giving away bolts guns, though.

I guess I'm kinda embarrassed for them. Maybe I shouldn't be but I know they are paying attention.

 

[Dirty D]

If Savage would go to a better extractor and lighten the bolt lift that would go a long way.

 

[Steel head]

Better extraction and ejection and I’d be happy.
After that a really nice trigger.
accutrigger is decent if your ignorant but after running Huber’s and CG’s for a while you realize it’s not so hot.

 

[LoneWolf_052713]

I started out with Savage rifles like many. Rebuilt a bunch of them. Primary issues were always, reliable mag feeding, reliable extraction, and the primary reliable ejection. Triggers could be better, but that's not really in the court of a lower end action. Accuracy was never an issue for me with after market barrels.

 

[Kadams1563]

Just fix the extractor/ejection.

They can’t solve this problem.

Savage is like the first car your parents gave you. You really enjoyed it until you realized that they gave you a shit car for when you tear it up and learn your lesson.

Savage is like your first piece of ass. No matter how ugly or fat she was you were in love until you got into another one.

 

[A&8's]

Better extraction and ejection and I’d be happy.
After that a really nice trigger.
accutrigger is decent if your ignorant but after running Huber’s and CG’s for a while you realize it’s not so hot.

I agree with the extractor, but that's an easy fix. But, why should they sink a ton of R&D in a better trigger when the 1st thing most replace is the trigger anyway? I mean, you said it yourself with running Huber's. I know of no mass produced rifle that has a trigger that will even remotely compared to an aftermarket. Besides, their target triggers are leaps and bounds better than 700 factory bang switches, IMO.

 

[benchmstr]

they can start using good chamber reamers again instead of what I assume are wood augers.....

bench

 

[Steel head]

I agree with the extractor, but that's an easy fix. But, why should they sink a ton of R&D in a better trigger when the 1st thing most replace is the trigger anyway? I mean, you said it yourself with running Huber's. I know of no mass produced rifle that has a trigger that will even remotely compared to an aftermarket. Besides, their target triggers are leaps and bounds better than 700 factory bang switches, IMO.

Savage doesn’t have to do the trigger.
I’d like someone in the aftermarket do it.
That’s why it was a secondary request.

I agree about them being better than Remington triggers.

I’m probably gonna put my savage back together soon.
Should be interesting.

 

[Dthomas3523]

On the bright side, at least the bottom 6 shooters will have something to pick up off the table.

 

[Jackomason]

If they could make an action that wasn't your "first car". Something that would actually be used by top shooters (even if they had to be paid). They've got the swappable/floating boltheads. They just need something where they pull all the stops. Maybe get a few CNC machines running, make something with tight tolerances. It's just wrong that they use nearly the same action on a $200 as they do on a $2k production class. They need something completly un-savage like..

 

[BadAccountant]

The same thing any mass-produced rifle company should do to compete at the $1,000+ mark.

Tighten QC on their actions to ensure they're true (they already have their target actions ffs), put premium stainless barrels on their guns, work on improving the extractor and camming surfaces.

They're doing good things. They're offering features and improvements that mean that people don't have to drop extra money on a budget rifle to get it to shoot well for them.

Now take it a step further.

And ofc, make it AICS compatible.

 

[Krazy_jim]

. I know of no mass produced rifle that has a trigger that will even remotely compared to an aftermarket.

I will admit my only aftermarket trigger shot is a Timney CE on a rem700.. my tikka, which is mass produced, has a trigger easily as nice as a CE.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I agree with the extractor, but that's an easy fix. But, why should they sink a ton of R&D in a better trigger when the 1st thing most replace is the trigger anyway? I mean, you said it yourself with running Huber's. I know of no mass produced rifle that has a trigger that will even remotely compared to an aftermarket. Besides, their target triggers are leaps and bounds better than 700 factory bang switches, IMO.

AI......

 

[JMGlasgow]

-Reliable extraction
-Reliable ejection
-Scope base screws that don't come loose regularly
-A tighter fitting bolt in the raceway
-Better triggers. The accutrigger is a piece of shit. A two stage option would be nice
-Easier bolt lift
-Action screw spacing that doesn't put a screw between the trigger and magazine well
-A safety that doesn't feel dead

I'd say they would have to copy a Bighorn action to make them worth a look.

I've owned 2 Savages and will never own one again. The amount of issues I had with both of them is ridiculous.

I forgot to mention a customer service team that aren't a bunch of assholes would help as well.

 

[Bender]

-Reliable extraction
-Reliable ejection
-Scope base screws that don't come loose regularly
-A tighter fitting bolt in the raceway
-Better triggers. The accutrigger is a piece of shit. A two stage option would be nice
-Easier bolt lift
-Action screw spacing that doesn't put a screw between the trigger and magazine well
-A safety that doesn't feel dead

I'd say they would have to copy a Bighorn action to make them worth a look.

I've owned 2 Savages and will never own one again. The amount of issues I had with both of them is ridiculous.

I forgot to mention a customer service team that aren't a bunch of assholes would help as well.

You could always get a Tikka!!! Lmaoooooo!

????

 

[JMGlasgow]

I will clarify that the older Tikka M695 and its short action counterpart are far better than today's T3. And the only Tikka models I would consider owning.

 

[Jackomason]

-Reliable extraction
-Reliable ejection
-Scope base screws that don't come loose regularly
-A tighter fitting bolt in the raceway
-Better triggers. The accutrigger is a piece of shit. A two stage option would be nice
-Easier bolt lift
-Action screw spacing that doesn't put a screw between the trigger and magazine well
-A safety that doesn't feel dead

I'd say they would have to copy a Bighorn action to make them worth a look.

I've owned 2 Savages and will never own one again. The amount of issues I had with both of them is ridiculous.

I forgot to mention a customer service team that aren't a bunch of assholes would help as well.

Yeah I agree %100. And maybe that's what they need to do. Bighorn makes the actions for proof. Maybe savage could outsource their custom shop? the APR G2 could work for them. They could still throw a savage barrel on there if they really wanted to.

Obviously this probably is never going to happen but I think they need to change a lot more than their chassis to get anyone's attention.

 

[Datsrboi]

After 10k plus rounds throught my savage 12 action.... The two things I hate about it is The bolt lift and the bolt throw. Everything else is aftermarket so I guess I hate everything about the factory savage minus the trigger haha

 

[hlee]

This reminds me of the "just bought a Rem 700 5r. What should I replace?" thread floating in here. I can't believe no one said "the rifle..."

 

[RogueTanker]

Primary extraction- I sent mine back twice to the factory thinking it was a chamber issue before I realized the issue was primary extraction. Savage never checked that and I had to have a gunsmith fix it for me by shortening the bolt body.

Strength of bolt parts- had the bolt head retaining pin break on my rifle after a couple thousand rounds. Doesn't inspire confidence in the platform.

Smoothness of the bolt and raceway- yeah it'd be nice if it felt better than a cheap action, but it does work. Never bound up with the loose tolerances

 

[DukeGSP]

I think people are forgetting that savage intentions were to never produce a high end custom rifle that wasn't affordable to the average weekend hunter. there are so many different custom rifle manufactures/ builders out there that it would be nearly impossible for them to strive in that market. Savage makes one of the better entry level rifles IMO.

like I've said before, I'll put a new out of the box savage rifle against any new out of the box rifle in it's class. they were designed for the blue collar hunter who deserves a accurate rifle for a very fair price.

are their actions sloppy? yes
have ghey triggers? yes
have issues? i'm sure
shoot good? yes
kill stuff? yes

300-500 rifles. let's not over look that.

 

[RogueTanker]

I think people are forgetting that savage intentions were to never produce a high end custom rifle that wasn't affordable to the average weekend hunter. there are so many different custom rifle manufactures/ builders out there that it would be nearly impossible for them to strive in that market. Savage makes one of the better entry level rifles IMO.

like I've said before, I'll put a new out of the box savage rifle against any new out of the box rifle in it's class. they were designed for the blue collar hunter who deserves a accurate rifle for a very fair price.

are their actions sloppy? yes
have ghey triggers? yes
have issues? i'm sure
shoot good? yes
kill stuff? yes

300-500 rifles. let's not over look that.

And all the issues outlined are what they are. But basics functions shouldn't be an issue. Should a hunting rifle be able to extract a round so they can follow up with another? I think so. Should a hunting rifle not drop the case as it's extracting so they can follow up with another shot? I think so. But a lot of savages struggle with that.

 

[Jackomason]

are their actions sloppy? yes
have ghey triggers? yes
have issues? i'm sure
shoot good? yes
kill stuff? yes

300-500 rifles. let's not over look that.

They are clearly trying to muscle their way into PRS, your point doesnt stand when you are looking at a $2k savage in an MDT ACC. You can't even upgrade the barreled action later.

I can see they are trying but it's kinda sad to watch. They need to change something big. I dont even think if they changed their extraction/ejection issues that they would start popping up in high level competition. What do you think they are trying to do by putting rifles on the prize table and offering a BA in the best chassis out there? Surely they arent aiming for blue collar hunters.

 

[buffybuster]

Shilen DGR addresses about all of the Savage issues.

 

[A&8's]

AI......

AI's are, by no means, mass produced as I mentioned. Not even remotely close to the numbers of major manufacturers.

 

[BoilerUP]

Imagine if Remington offered all the features of the Bergara B-14 action...

But nope.

Savage was my gateway drug into this hobby, factory barrels have shot very well but magazine feeding, bolt lift and ejection is a disaster.

Fine for a hunter, “couple boxes of shells per year” shooter or benchrest, but too unreliable and aggravating on the whole for many serious practical hobbyists.

 

[Dirty D]

This reminds me of the "just bought a Rem 700 5r. What should I replace?" thread floating in here. I can't believe no one said "the rifle..."

Unlike Remington whose QC is absolutely shit and getting worse combined with product offerings 25 years behind the rest of the market Savage is usually the first to offer rifles in new calibers and offering stock and chassis options years before their competitors. Savages are far from perfect but unlike Remington they are actually trying AND they are making an effort to support PRS.

 

[JMGlasgow]

If you think Savage QC is any better than Remington you are way off base. Sure Remington has a few issues, but they are nowhere near as bad as Savage. And as Chad at LRI stated in another thread, Remington QC is getting better quickly.

 

[Dirty D]

If you think Savage QC is any better than Remington you are way off base. Sure Remington has a few issues, but they are nowhere near as bad as Savage. And as Chad at LRI stated in another thread, Remington QC is getting better quickly.

In my empirical observation there has been a 10 to 1 ratio of posts bitching about Remington QC vs. Savage (plenty of bitching about shit extraction design that I agree with). As far as Remington QC getting better quickly I’m not a Remington guy but am genuinely glad to hear/read that.

 

[264win]

Just fix the extraction issues.

Doesn’t seem practical for savage to try and push its way into the already over crowded high end rifle/action market.

 

[Steel head]

Just fix the extraction issues.

Doesn’t seem practical for savage to try and push its way into the already over crowded high end rifle/action market.

I agree.

 

[Datsrboi]

I got a savage 10 years ago because it look promising and at that time the 700 was getting all these complaints and recalls. The tikka was amazing but back then had nothing aftermarket much. The savage was reliable and shoots amazing. Just the little luxuries were not there. The only thing left original of my 800 dollar 12 series is the action and the bolt and the trigger.

 

[JMGlasgow]

In my empirical observation there has been a 10 to 1 ratio of posts bitching about Remington QC vs. Savage (plenty of bitching about shit extraction design that I agree with). As far as Remington QC getting better quickly I’m not a Remington guy but am genuinely glad to hear/read that.

Probably because people on this site have owned more Remingtons on a scale of 10-1 as that is the entry level platform for precision rifles and aftermarket parts. When they decide to upgrade to a custom (I just ordered a Defiance Deviant Tactical) the parts interchangeability is there in most cases. Whereas a Savage you're starting over completely.

 

[Changed]

Quite frankly, both Remmington and Savage have legacy systems that have not been improved upon, aside from bolting on accessories/chassis. None of which improve on the operation. I don't dislike Savage, but without true innovation on their part, and I don't mean and MDT chassis, I'm not interested in their rifles.

 

[spife7980]

If you ask me its what could savage stop changing...


Stop changing your naming conventions!

 

[DukeGSP]

They are clearly trying to muscle their way into PRS, your point doesnt stand when you are looking at a $2k savage in an MDT ACC. You can't even upgrade the barreled action later.

I can see they are trying but it's kinda sad to watch. They need to change something big. I dont even think if they changed their extraction/ejection issues that they would start popping up in high level competition. What do you think they are trying to do by putting rifles on the prize table and offering a BA in the best chassis out there? Surely they arent aiming for blue collar hunters.

my point is you're setting your own self up for disappointment when you see Savage release a rifle in this Class and then bash them when it doesn't hold up to the "PRS world" standards.

let me first say that I'm in no means a savage fan boy nor am I trying to defend them. I simply agree with everyone else that savage gives a sour taste when it comes to quality and performance. with that said, I believe Savage got where they are today because of what they have to offer to the "everyday hunter" basic functionally is of course a must in any rifle but I don't believe every savage is having these issues. they target the hunting market more than most IMO.

why they thought releasing a "PRS Ready" rifle was a good idea? hell if you or I know. the only benefit I can think of is if someone who was really wanting to get into PRS shooting and didn't want to track down parts/gunsmith/etc and piece a gun together and compete, then this was a one stop shop kinda deal.

have you shot one? handled one? how do you know the tolerances on this model wasn't fixed or addressed? I'm willing to bet though that this rifle will stand up to any other "PRS Class" with accuracy. but I also know that accuracy isn't the only thing needed out of a rifle of this kind.

at the end of the day, nobody is making you buy this rifle so why you're so upset over it beats me. if you don't like the gun, simply don't buy it. I doubt they are going to take over the precision shooting industry with this rifle anyways. but the "threat" seems to be ruffling some peoples feathers.

if Savage fails in this Market I doubt this will make or break them. as fast as this sport is growing, why not give it a shot? cant blame them or bash them for trying. what other mass produced rifle company out there is trying?

 

[lte82]

B

what other mass produced rifle company out there is trying? I'll wait.

Remington, Tikka, Ruger, Daniel Defense, Rock River, Seekins, Bergara... just off the top of my head.

 

[DukeGSP]

B


Remington, Tikka, Ruger, Daniel Defense, Rock River, Seekins, Bergara... just off the top of my head.

that are making a "production Division PRS" rifle?

 

[JMGlasgow]

The APO Snipershide rifle is production class for PRS. It uses a factory Remington barreled action.

 

[lte82]

that are making a "production Division PRS" rifle?

Bergara, Remington, ruger, tikka, all make rifles that qualify.

 

[DukeGSP]

well now we can add savage lol

 

[Jackomason]

Who said I was upset?

The whole point I'm trying to make is that with the bold moves savage is trying to make I think they have great potential. But it seems that they are swinging and missing every time. Wouldn't you want to see more competition?

The only emotional connection I have to savage is wanting to see them succeed and I dont think that's wrong. They need to change a lot to keep up with the others mentioned brands.... just a conversation, that's all.

 

[DukeGSP]

Who said I was upset?

The whole point I'm trying to make is that with the bold moves savage is trying to make I think they have great potential. But it seems that they are swinging and missing every time. Wouldn't you want to see more competition?

The only emotional connection I have to savage is wanting to see them succeed and I dont think that's wrong. They need to change a lot to keep up with the others mentioned brands.... just a conversation, that's all.

I can agree with you. if their actions functioned 100% I believe they would hurt a lot of feelings in the industry. if there is no risk, then there is no reward. they're an established company that I don't will sink if this marketing strategy fails. IMO they have so much to gain and nothing to lose.

 

[BrentlyWhite]

I saw several post on extraction. I have owned 4 savages so far over 15 years and have never had an extraction problem. I guess I am lucky. what I would like to see is control round feed for all calibers, mechanical ejection to improve the feel of closing the bolt not to mention you don't have to remove the ejection pin to change the barrel, improved bolt lift timing, proper (for their design) firing pin spring tension and firing pin protrusion.

 

[JMGlasgow]

Control round feed is overrated

 

[BrentlyWhite]

Control round feed is overrated

I appreciate your statement but for a hunting rifle I prefer the control round feed. That one is a personal preference.

 

[sid]

They should create a new brand for the more expensive rifles, like Toyota did with Lexus.. same shit but different name, so people wouldn't be rediculed that they payed 2000$ for a Savage, then they should change the design of that dildo boltend...