Gunsmithing What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

[crumpmd]

deep and the bolt will close on the nogo?

 

[GasLight]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

you have to set it back... how far too deep did you go?

 

[crumpmd]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

Don't know exactly.

When setting back, you would take off equally from all 3 surfaces. What I mean is, where the recoil lug abuts, the end of the barrel where the threads begin and the chamber face. ?
Take 2 or 3 thousandths from each and recheck the go nogo guage?

 

[Raven 6]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

Yes that's about it in a nutshell. did you try a Field gauge?

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: crumpmd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't know exactly.

When setting back, you would take off equally from all 3 surfaces. What I mean is, where the recoil lug abuts, the end of the barrel where the threads begin and the chamber face. ?
Take 2 or 3 thousandths from each and recheck the go nogo guage? </div></div>

Insert the Go Gauge with a small piece of feeler gauge custom cut to fit, .0015" thick to start held on the back of the gauge with grease. See if the bolt will close. Continue until you have determined how much over a go you are. Take that amount off the shoulder first and check your other measurments.

 

[GasLight]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

if you take the barrel off, and put the go gauge in the chamber then put your bolt onto the go gauge, is there space between the front of the bolt lugs and the barrel? If there is a couple thou there, you should be ok just setting the barrel shoulder back, if it bottoms out, you are going to need to take some off the barrel face and the bolt recess as well as the shoulder. wnroscoe has a great way to check just how much it is too deep and how much you need to remove off the shoulder...

DD

 

[Criver600]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber t

I have an older 30-06 that will close on a no-go. Its about .001 long I have 100 pieces of fire formed brass its just fine. But I am aware of the situation and would not sell or loan the rifle out.

 

[GasLight]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber t

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: criver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have an older 30-06 that will close on a no-go. Its about .001 long I have 100 pieces of fire formed brass its just fine. But I am aware of the situation and would not sell or loan the rifle out.</div></div>

Yes that is another option, but not ideal. If you are wanting to learn how to build a tack driver, it is best to learn to do it right. I am sure deep chambering is a great lesson, I can't wait until I accidently do it too LOL...

A field gauge will give even more allowance than a no-go gauge, so it may be within useable specs, but at this point in a build, I would say make it right...

DD

 

[crumpmd]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

Help me with terminology.

The bolt face goes into the <span style="font-style: italic">bolt recess</span>
The bolt lugs butt against the <span style="font-style: italic">barrel face</span>
And the recoil lug butts against the <span style="font-style: italic">barrel shoulder</span>

Is that right? or am I fubar?

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

Check your PM's and dont take the barrel out of the lathe yet

 

[GasLight]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

you have the jist, but you don't want the front (muzzle end) of the bolt lugs to touch the barrel at all, same with the rim of the bolt face. You want a couple thou clearance there, I don't know the exact ideal spec. Other than that, you have it right with the terminology, at least how I used those terms in my post.

Dave

 

[300sniper]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

if it were me, and of course it wouldn't be because i would never accidentally ream a chamber too deep

, i'd remove .062" from the shoulder and the barrel face and change the bolt nose counterbore to match. i index my barrel so the muzzle high end points up when tightened to the receiver so i need to keep the amount i would remove in .062" increments. if you don't index the barrel, you can remove the amount you need from the shoulder, barrel face and counterbore. depending on how much unthreaded area you have for the recoil lug, you may need to chase the threads a bit.

 

[GasLight]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> depending on how much unthreaded area you have for the recoil lug, you may need to chase the threads a bit.</div></div>

Do you cut the tenon threads into a groove?

Dave

 

[300sniper]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

i don't use a thread relief with a separate recoil lug. for something like a surgeon with an integral lug, i'd probably create a thread relief.

 

[crumpmd]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

Here is an update.
Wm Roscoe of LA precision rifles talked to me on the phone and gave me instructions.

The chamber was cut too deep by 9 thou. I measured it by his feeler gauge method. So I cut 5 thou and checked and the bolt vas still a pretty easy close on Nogo. I cut another 3 thou and now it stops on the Nogo and closes ok on the GO.

To answer DD yes. I cut a relief groove and machined a flat spot for the lug. When I cut the shoulder the 8 thou I felt like all the rest fit pretty well still so I did nothing else.

 

[GasLight]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

Very cool! Glad you got it... now some pictures and a range report

 

[crumpmd]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

The boss has the camera and I did not use the cell phone because it sucks. Maybe I can get it tomorrow and get pictures of the barrel threading and crowning.
Def if we get it done we will send rounds down tomorrow.

 

[Jkob60]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

You stated earlier that you "did not know" how much too deep you went. I find that hard to imagine. You should have had a set of dimensions to work on before you even put the barrel in the lathe.

 

[Victor N TN]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

Another way to file in the back of your mind. I use a lead wire and close the bolt on it. When I was making bullets I always had a box full of lead wire about 1/16" OD. That makes a better substance to mic. I have seen electrical solder used.

But if you have a way that works & you like it, stay with it.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim Kobe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You stated earlier that you "did not know" how much too deep you went. I find that hard to imagine. You should have had a set of dimensions to work on before you even put the barrel in the lathe. </div></div>

Have you ever heard the term "learning curve" or were you born perfect?

Glad you got it sorted out crumpmd!

 

[chpprguy]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim Kobe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You stated earlier that you "did not know" how much too deep you went. I find that hard to imagine. You should have had a set of dimensions to work on before you even put the barrel in the lathe. </div></div>

Have you ever heard the term "learning curve" or were you born perfect?

Glad you got it sorted out crumpmd! </div></div>


+ 1......

.009" isn't a whole lot
give a guy a break....

 

[crumpmd]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

Jim Kobe likely has all those dimensions and diagrams and a 10 grand Digital readout on his 50 grand lathe. I am Sure someone with his obvious skill and finesse could never make an error of 0.009inch

Plus look at all the helpful comments he provided to help teach the novice how to measure and correct his error. He even sent me a PM with his phone number so I could talk to him and sort it out.

No wait, my bad. It was Wm Roscoe at LA precision rifles who did all that.

All Jim Kobe did was show up and run his Man pleaser.

 

[crumpmd]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

oh I forgot,

I finished the rifle.

thanks to Mr Roscoe , DD, 300 and the others for helpful insight.

function check and test fire ok.
will post a 100 yard target shortly.

 

[SDWhirlwind]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

Jim Kobe.....Providing arrogant, self serving, narcassistic, condescending, sarcastic, informative posts one at a time on numerous internet forums.....where would gun lovers be without him and his Fairbanks, AK counterpart?????

Must not be enough shop work so internet bashing of do-it- yourselfers on 4-5 internet forums fills the voids???

......and someone said my posts were of little value......?


Good way to drum up business is with a winning personality!!!

 

[gamma]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

I have a deadly little set up on my lathe which Ill post some photos of tomorrow. Its basically a very simple but very affective digital readout system which only cost me around £18.
It works like a digital vernier and thats basically what it is,the bottom slide connects to the tailstock and the top is connected to drive ram on the tailstock which the reamer is in.
Its so effective and makes life so much easier when reaming a chamber. I can start a chamber and when I want to make a check,I just simply zero the readout,wind it back,take my measurement and wind it back in till Im on zero where I left off. I know then exactly on my readout whats left to come off. A brilliant little tool. Ill post some pictures of it tomorrow and details of where to get them.

 

[GasLight]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gamma</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a deadly little set up on my lathe which Ill post some photos of tomorrow. Its basically a very simple but very affective digital readout system which only cost me around £18.
It works like a digital vernier and thats basically what it is,the bottom slide connects to the tailstock and the top is connected to drive ram on the tailstock which the reamer is in.
Its so effective and makes life so much easier when reaming a chamber. I can start a chamber and when I want to make a check,I just simply zero the readout,wind it back,take my measurement and wind it back in till Im on zero where I left off. I know then exactly on my readout whats left to come off. A brilliant little tool. Ill post some pictures of it tomorrow and details of where to get them.</div></div>

Sounds awesome... love to get new ideas how to make life easier

 

[crumpmd]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

gamma
please do post your setup. I do not have a DRO But after talking to Mr Roscoe I set up a dial indicator on the saddle to help index the tail stock. And it helped me finish the job.

Here is the result so far.

It is in a youth stock and needs a Karstan cheek. Then I get a 20 moa base and low rings for the little USO. Tested at 50 to zero newly mounted scope then 100. It will easily be sub moa .

 

[GasLight]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

Looking good man! amazing how quick you can put something together when you do the work yourself...

DD

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

I believe Dave Tooley uses such a set up. Like a cheap DRO for tail stocks.

 

[gamma]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: crumpmd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">gamma
please do post your setup. I do not have a DRO But after talking to Mr Roscoe I set up a dial indicator on the saddle to help index the tail stock. And it helped me finish the job.

</div></div>
I certainly will,its 23.00pm here in Ireland at the moment so Ill have to do it tomorrow some time as the shop is locked up and alarmed. Ya I was all on for a big expensive DRO until I came onto this little piece of kit. It really beats the crap out of using a dial indicator on the saddle and the great thing is,you can fit them to all your axis,tailstock,cross slide,longslide etc. Great for the novice or even the pro. Im going to fit one to my Bridgeport soon. Its got a 3 axis DRO already but I want one for the manual drilling arm.

 

[300sniper]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

i have seen pictures posted somewhere where a person used a cheap digital dial caliper and made a clamp to tailstock quill to measure travel. it was pretty trick. i have no idea if i saw it on this site or not. i go analog with a dial indicator on a magnetic base.

edit: and good job on your project. it looks nice!

 

[Jkob60]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SDWhirlwind</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jim Kobe.....Providing arrogant, self serving, narcassistic, condescending, sarcastic, informative posts one at a time on numerous internet forums.....where would gun lovers be without him and his Fairbanks, AK counterpart?????

Must not be enough shop work so internet bashing of do-it- yourselfers on 4-5 internet forums fills the voids???

......and someone said my posts were of little value......?


Good way to drum up business is with a winning personality!!! </div></div>

I guess what I tried to say was the guy had no idea what he was doing and was way beyond help. He was trying to do a job that was beyond his capabilities. Rather than continue on his own, he should have asked for help before going ahead with it. It sounded like he wanted to do the job on his own but did not have the resources available (brain power)

 

[Duc]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

"did not have the resources available (brain power)"

Guess that makes wnroscoe a Healer of the weak.

Some people just need a tip or hand to help them down the road, and when that is shared with Us all We all get better because of it

Never handled one of Mr Roscoe's Rifles, but when a man who makes His living building Rifles tries to help out others with His hard earned knowage and time he deserves the thanks and respect from Our commuinity.

Crumpmd had the tools, just needed an answer not a put down. End product shows that. Nice job on Your Rifle Sir.

Need to add thanks to all that HELPED..

Duc

 

[gamma]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

This is my set up that I said Id post here to show you how I made life that bit easier. These can be got on ebay for a few dollars. If you go into ebay under business and industrial and search digital readouts,you'll see them.

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

Crumpmd's dilemma was a minor issue as some smiths ream deeper than needed anyway and make the correction by cutting the shoulder for correct headspace. This was the case with the Dr. and he just needed a way to measure the distance "over" the go he was. I suggested using small pieces of feeler gauge held on the rear of the go gauge with grease. One piece at a time until he determined the amount over the go had gone. I suggested starting with .010" since that’s what he thought he was. He ended up +.009" over the go and was able to make cuts to the shoulder until his headspace was set/corrected.

Sometimes, we just need a little push in the right direction to get us going. I guarantee you this, he learned something on this chambering job and that’s always a good thing.

Just a small tip for you guys. Look at the rear of most if not all chamber reamers, there’s a scribed line there. Stop reaming your chamber when this line is almost at the breech. Blow chamber out, insert go gauge, install recoil lug and screw the receiver on with bolt closed. Stop when you feel the bolt hit the go gauge. Measure the distance/gap between the receiver face and recoil lug with a feeler gauge. Cut this amount +.001” out and you’ll be golden. In order for this to work, use the carriage as a positive stop for your tail stock to go against. Do not move the carriage until your chamber is complete. This gives you a “Standard” to work against and allows you to pull the tail stock back and out of the way. When you stop reaming, remember the number on your tail stock hand wheel. When you go back in with the reamer/tailstock, it’ll start cutting on that number.

 

[oneeyedmac]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

You gotta love Roscoe.

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneeyedmac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You gotta love Roscoe. </div></div>

I'm just a shooter helping other shooters

 

[crumpmd]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

And I truly appreciate it.

I had no idea what I was doing. I only barely passed grammar school and high school was impossible. I learned you could become a doctor over the internet and so I lied my way into an MD degree. I managed to bluff my way into being a surgeon because of all the deer and housecats I've skinned. Jim Kobe called me out and I am guilty. I lack brain power. I have a room temperature IQ, in Celsius no less. I should have just called Jim and he could have done just a brilliant job. Then we would have not had to waste all this internet bandwidth in talking about how to measure an over cut.

But I digress.

Again, thanks Mr Roscoe!
And thanks Gamma for posting your setup. I will be doing that modification.

oh, and Jim Kobe, thanks for pointing out what a complete moron I am. Without people like you around people like me might actually begin to think we have a clue. My name address and phone number are in the public domain. Listed in my profile in fact. If you ever have a chance to come to South Mississippi look me up. I always like the opportunity to meet my intellectual betters.

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

Your more than welcome. Keep my number and call anytime you hit a snag, unless you in the OR and hit that snag, then you're on your own skippy

Man........I could have been a surgeon if I would have just looked at the right web sites. Oh well, live and learn.

 

[Greywolf36]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

I have a .284Win from Mr Roscoe and she is a tack driver, the Man knows what he's talking about...........and he really takes care of his customers.

Thanks again William

Brian K Vance
Aka(Greywolf36)

 

[eddybo]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

Once again WNRoscoe shows great character and shares his knowledge. He exemplifies southern gentleman. I appreciate not only the help you have given me directly, but also all of the tid bits I have picked up from posts where you helped others.

BTW guys with the DROs on your tailstock...same method I use, just a warning. Be sure and park your carriage before you zero your DRO if you are moving you tailstock back and forth. I know someone who mistakenly cut a friend's 7mm/08 chamber so deep that it became his personal 280AI. Yea for some reason I moved the carriage and did not re zero my little DRO. On the upside I love the .280

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

Parking the carriage will solve many problems before they arrise.

 

[Country]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: crumpmd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Help me with terminology.

The bolt face goes into the <span style="font-style: italic">bolt recess</span>
The bolt lugs butt against the <span style="font-style: italic">barrel face</span>
And the recoil lug butts against the <span style="font-style: italic">barrel shoulder</span>

Is that right? or am I fubar? </div></div>
The bolt nose goes into the bolt recess . The face is back inside the nose of the bolt.
The bolt lugs don't but up against the barrel face .
They engauge the action lugs and there is space between the end of the lugs and the chamber face.
The recoil lug on a Rem 700 and other seperate lug designs goes between the barrel tenon shoulder and the action front ring face.

 

[crumpmd]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

thank you Country!
I will make a diagram with that nomenclature to refer to.

 

[nashlaw]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

Great thread! It ran off the rails no less than three times and still came back.

Gotta love it!

 

[Bryan27]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

Good thread, I got to learn something new.

Off the topic of this thread, but being from lucedale do you know the Brannans?

 

[crumpmd]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

You bet. I've hunted out there and I have taken care of some of them, and their oldest daughter is a nurse I work with.
Good people all around.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Re: What do you do when you have cut the chamber too

Crump, Roscoe, et (most) al

Ya'll have a great thread here, and what was accomplished and exchanged is awesome. Good to see.

Nice way to 'overcome' as well.