What do you make of this?

[CNJarvis]

Here are a couple of photos of the muzzle of my rifle. Not looking for anything in particular, just your thoughts.

Some details:
Win. M70, 300 Win Mag, I'm at least the third owner of this rifle.
Approximately 75 rounds fired since last full bore cleaning.
Ammo was a mix of handloads with Sierra Pro Hunters and Federal factory 180 gr. Power Shoks.

 

[HodgdonExtreme]

I've never seen more copper; don't trash that barrel, scrap it out. Copper is valuable!

Also, appears there's a dent, dimple or rust pit on one of the lands, visible in photo 2.

I'd be amazed if you tell us this shoots well.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Holy fucking copper.

 

[Donr13]

The copper state called, they want there mascot back

 

[Ledzep]

Impressive copper collection. I've never seen a bore so solidly colored.

 

[SWRichmond]

is it too late to get your money back?

 

[CNJarvis]

I've had this thing quite a while so no, there's no getting my money back and I practically got it for a song anyway.

I've never seen anything copper foul that badly either. I did notice the pit and it doesn't surprise me. It's obvious to me that the rifle wasn't cared for as the outside of the barrel has some sort of pitting too.

Best group I've gotten out of it was around 1.6" @ 100 but I haven't done any load development with it. I don't expect much from it but it'll be interesting to try.

Of course, if I had the money I'd send it off for a new barrel.

 

[Bender]

Clean and shoot.

 

[tipper]

If you are the third owner, it is what it is, if you fell the need to shoot a 300 Win Mag you have one,

 

[Elite_KG]

Clean it all out and see how it shoots. May shoot fine once you get it all out and get the barrel back to a quasi-equilibrium state. Report back....I'm curious.

 

[leadbullet]

Two options, live with it as is or put a better tube on it. If you just hunt with it, leave it be, for more serious work a better barrel would be highly recommended
Cheers

 

[Zuul]

After the last cleaning was the bore spotless? That much copper build up in 75 rounds seems crazy. Chinese made Winchester by Sum-Ting Wong?

 

[CNJarvis]

Two options, live with it as is or put a better tube on it. If you just hunt with it, leave it be, for more serious work a better barrel would be highly recommended
Cheers

Right now, it's used for hunting out to 300 yds but it's NOT my primary hunting rifle. At some point, I do want to rebarrel it as a LR hunter/Target rifle.

After the last cleaning was the bore spotless? That much copper build up in 75 rounds seems crazy. Chinese made Winchester by Sum-Ting Wong?

Yes. I'm cleaning it now and we'll see how it does next time out.

 

[cal50]

You have a very conductive bore.....

Get the Sweets out and have at it until the blue pile of patches goes away or electronically clean it.
I would also re-crown it past the booger in the bore.

 

[MoBoost]

Time for some KG12 : https://eabco.com/KG12Copper.html

 

[CNJarvis]

I have an 8 oz bottle of Barnes CR10.

Pics of the bore in the AM.

 

[mark5pt56]

That is some serious copper! Since I don't know, are some bullet jackets made of different grades of copper to cause more transfer?

 

[wilwith1l]

If you are the third owner, it is what it is, if you fell the need to shoot a 300 Win Mag you have one,

What thought or idea are you attempting to convey here? I understand all of the words, but I do not understand them in the particular arrangement you have chosen. Your use of the comma at the end, as well as the parenthetical commas, leads me to believe you have not yet completed your sentence. Clarification would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[gatorbait308]

Tubbs final finnish ?

 

[79jeepcj5]

What thought or idea are you attempting to convey here? I understand all of the words, but I do not understand them in the particular arrangement you have chosen. Your use of the comma at the end, as well as the parenthetical commas, leads me to believe you have not yet completed your sentence. Clarification would be appreciated. Thanks.

Just tipper being tipper after a night of binge drinking. I like to binge drink too so I try not to post after number six or so, therefore avoiding all the random commas.

 

[CNJarvis]

Ok guys, here are the promised photos. I suspect that the reason for the fouling will be self evident...





Don't think there's any helping this barrel.

 

[HodgdonExtreme]

Thanks for posting.

I've wrecked a perfectly good barrel by letting it get rust pitting in the bore, also.

There is a lot of "Don't clean your rifle barrel" sentiment around this forum. Well, from first hand experience I can say that if you have a steel barrel and don't have perfect control of the humidity in your home, you really should run a few patches wet with some powder solvent through the bore before putting your rifle away.

 

[Temp9]

Tubbs final finnish ?

This. Tubb's Final Finish might just be able to bring this barrel back to serviceable condition. Honestly, the only time I've seen a bore that rough was when we pulled a bunch of rifles out of a nasty house fire.

FF Kit 308 Cal

 

[CNJarvis]

Thanks for posting.

I've wrecked a perfectly good barrel by letting it get rust pitting in the bore, also.

There is a lot of "Don't clean your rifle barrel" sentiment around this forum. Well, from first hand experience I can say that if you have a steel barrel and don't have perfect control of the humidity in your home, you really should run a few patches wet with some powder solvent through the bore before putting your rifle away.

I only know how the rifle has been cared for since I've had it and I keep bore snakes just for a quick swabbing to prevent stuff like this. I have no idea where this rifle has been but it wasn't cared for while it was there.

This. Tubb's Final Finish might just be able to bring this barrel back to serviceable condition. Honestly, the only time I've seen a bore that rough was when we pulled a bunch of rifles out of a nasty house fire.

FF Kit 308 Cal

It probably would help but it seems a bit like polishing a turd.

In a few days I may be able to buy a new barrel and then save up to have it installed.

I think I'm going to call this rifle "The Money Pit". It started life as a black shadow with a Tupperware stock and a blind box mag. I've replaced the stock and added one-piece bottom metal, now all I need is a decent barrel.

 

[RTH1800]

You have a nice action.

 

[W8-2112]

Keep us posted I am interested to see how it turns out.

 

[Elite_KG]

With out scoping it, you really dont know for sure what you have. The end could be far worse than the rest of the barrel. May get "a bit" lucky.....maybe.

 

[Mike]

Thanks for posting.

I've wrecked a perfectly good barrel by letting it get rust pitting in the bore, also.

There is a lot of "Don't clean your rifle barrel" sentiment around this forum. Well, from first hand experience I can say that if you have a steel barrel and don't have perfect control of the humidity in your home, you really should run a few patches wet with some powder solvent through the bore before putting your rifle away.

Only if you have a shitty carbon steel barrel. But you'll find when you get a custom stainless barrel like 99% of the custom barrel makers make you wont have to worry about it.

 

[HodgdonExtreme]

Only if you have a shitty carbon steel barrel. But you'll find when you get a custom stainless barrel like 99% of the custom barrel makers make you wont have to worry about it.

99% of the ~80,000 members here don't shoot fancy custom rifles with fancy stainless custom barrels.

4140 CM steel makes a fabulous rifle barrel, but is susceptible to the aforementioned rust pitting.

Call it shitty if you like, but regardless, *most* shooters must contend with this problem.

 

[Mike]

99% of the ~80,000 members here don't shoot fancy custom rifles with fancy stainless custom barrels.

4140 CM steel makes a fabulous rifle barrel, but is susceptible to the aforementioned rust pitting.

Call it shitty if you like, but regardless, *most* shooters must contend with this problem.

You don't need a "fancy custom rifle" to put a new barrel on it, as the OP stated he wants to do. And 4140 steel may make a fabulous rifle barrel but it's not more fabulous than a good SS barrel. "Most" shooters can eliminate this problem with a good barrel.

 

[delixe]

Tubbs final finnish ?

Exactly what I was thinking, if it's low enough round count to justify the cost.

 

[Pat M]

shoot lead bullets - problem solved

 

[CNJarvis]

I've been able to look down the bore from the muzzle with a bore light in the breech. Using an optivisor, I can see pitting 2-3" down the bore. It looks a bit like hail dings on a car hood.

I "could" try fire-lapping the bore but I would rather have a new barrel. Furthermore, Nosler Ballistic Tips seated to magazine lengh (3.34") have to jump 0.270" to hit the rifling. I'm certainly no benchrest level reloader but that seems a bit much.

The factory barrel appears to be a featherweight profile and what I think I want at this point is a Bartlein 26" #3B, light bull sporter barrel in CM. My rationale for this profile is that I'd like a barrel heavy enough to help mitigate recoil and barrel heating but not so heavy that it's a PITA to carry when hunting. The rifle will likely be equal parts target shooting and hunting. CM is just preference. The rifle will receive a cerakote or similar finish. I have a Sig rifle with their ilaflon finish that I love and much prefer over bluing.

The corrosion on this rifle occurred prior to my possession of it. Mine are stored in conditioned space with two pint can size desiccant canisters and a goldenrod type heater. I also keep bore snakes to swab the bore with CLP between cleanings and to clear the bore of any dust or grit that might get in there while hunting or shooting at the range. I try to take care of the stuff I have.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Take it to your smith, have it recrowned and deep cleaned.

Pitting is not infallible evidence of accuracy loss.

 

[HodgdonExtreme]

You don't need a "fancy custom rifle" to put a new barrel on it, as the OP stated he wants to do. And 4140 steel may make a fabulous rifle barrel but it's not more fabulous than a good SS barrel. "Most" shooters can eliminate this problem with a good barrel.

That's wonderful and all and I understand your point that SS barrels are more corrosion resistant than CM ones, though it's arguable that SS makes a "more fabulous" barrel than CM. For example, Sako specifically chooses CM, claiming SS won't meet their long term accuracy needs. There has been much talk about how SS tends to fire crack whilst CM tends not to, an advantage if true.

Regardless, there is a giant amount of shooters with great shooting rifles with CM pipes on them. I'm sure they will indeed rebarrel with SS, as most all aftermarket barrels are SS. In the meantime, I'd assume these shooters would like to keep their CM pipe shooting well.

Frankly, I'm not sure why you're arguing about this.

 

[Mike]

Frankly, I'm not sure why you're arguing about this.

Exactly, why in the hell are you arguing about it??

99% of the ~80,000 members here don't shoot fancy custom rifles with fancy stainless custom barrels.

First, let me explain you do not know this site, or what the members of this site has on their rifle so the first thing you need to do is learn your place.

Next, It's not arguable that SS makes a more fabulous barrel. Everyone who competes at any level in any discipline in LR shooting uses a SS barrel. It's not for cost, it's not for looks, it's not because it's the cool thing to do, it's because they are extremely accurate and they don't include the BS hassle of extra work to ensure you don't have pitting, rust, etc.

Next, Sako specifically chooses CM because THEIR SS barrels wouldn't meet their long term accuracy needs. They used a cheaper SS than the custom barrel makers in the US. Everyone I know that has shot a Sako (and I've owned more than one) has swapped the barrels out. SS fire cracking is no different than CM fire cracking. It's all "talk" and internet BS.

No one said CM barrels aren't accurate, they're just more of a PITA to care for to prevent crap like this from happening. Which is why all the aftermarket barrel makers use SS.

Keep shooting your CM barrel.

 

[Graham]

There are military contracts that specify CM barrels, and for good reason.

 

[Mike]

There are military contracts that specify CM barrels, and for good reason.

Whom and why?

 

[HodgdonExtreme]

Whom and why?

Because they're stupid, obviously.

 

[Mike]

Because they're stupid, obviously.

Yep, still waiting on a response.

 

[Niles Coyote]

I’ve heard really cold environments are one... scientifically why, I don’t recall.

 

[CNJarvis]

I was able to pick up a barrel locally yesterday afternoon. I had originally been thinking I'd go with a Bartlein CM but wasn't able to locate one in #3B profile however a LGS/Distributor had 3 5R rifled Krieger #5's in SS in stock so that settled it.



Next step is having it installed.

 

[Thud]

Find someone in your area with a bore scope and have the scope it out. Just looking down the bore with a light doesn't show anything.
You will find where the fouling starts. Also may see what is causing the fouling.
Yes use an aggressive cleaner like sweets and you will get a lot of blue patches. Also try Reminton 40x and JB Bore compound. Use a good solvent like break cleaner or the overpriced gun scrubber.
Then rescope the barrel and see what it looks like.
If then if not satisfied do the rebarrel.

 

[rancilio]

CNJ, "...so that settled it." Now you're talking. That Krieger will nice. Post up some pix when you are done.