So I have been doing load development for my new barrel. Sitting at a bench I haven't gotten anything less than a 1.75'" group at 100yds. Today I decided to shoot prone, and I got amazing groups. I don't get it. Both times gun shot off of bipod and rear bag.
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What gives....
- Thread starter Doc68
- Start date
someone else may know my guessing with no information could and would be pretty useless to you sorry . But regardless good luck you can do it .
Are you loading the bipod the same and puting the same body weight behind the gun like you are prone or are you relaxed and the recoil is pushing you more?
That's the thing also. Shitty groups except when prone at 100, but hitting everything else out to 1086 yards. Couldn't really tell the groups at range since they are old steel beat up targets, however was definitely hitting them with no issues.
Most likely inconsistent bench technique.
If you are interested in bench groups get sand bags and remove bipod. Great groups can be shot off bench/bipod but it requires better fundamental skill.
100 yard groups are actually quite telling but ignored due to a lot of folks not liking what they tell.
Shooting paper targets is not popular with shooters on this site. It is still the best way to determine your skill, POI and set up.
If you are interested in bench groups get sand bags and remove bipod. Great groups can be shot off bench/bipod but it requires better fundamental skill.
100 yard groups are actually quite telling but ignored due to a lot of folks not liking what they tell.
Shooting paper targets is not popular with shooters on this site. It is still the best way to determine your skill, POI and set up.
This is 100% fundamentals and lack of consistency from the bench.
Shooting from a bench has the same fundamentals as any other position. But, shooting from a bench is where we get lazy as a shooter and start to F things up. We have to be very conscious of our body position, recoil management and shooting process to see the same results as the prone position. Here are a few of the main issues:
Bipod loading or rearward pressure.
When shooting from a bench it's difficult to load the bipod like in the prone position. This means the rearward pressure of the grip is the primary controller of the rifle position as the bullet leaves the barrel. Small variances in rearward pressure can have different results down range. This is why benchrest shooters do a totally free recoil technique. Find a way consistently load your bipod or develop consistent rearward pressure with your grip hand.
Recoil management
Frank did a video about the differences in body position from A bench that can change your MV. If you are sitting vertical your MV can be slower and you have more body movement during recoil. This body movement can cause groups to open up. Try to have modified prone position from the bench. Slide your hipps more rearward, lean more forward into your rifle and use more body weight to control recoil.
Cheek weld
A lot of guys on A bench want to break their cheek weld between shots to run the bolt or because they are single feeding the rifle. Keep your face in the gun for your string of shots to maintain sight picture and sight alignment. I.e. the same view through the scope for each shot. If you break your cheek weld you will change your eye's alignment with the scope.
Natural point of aim
It's harder to maintain natural point of aim while sitting on a bench. It's very easy to flex your hips or torso to manipulate the rifle sights onto the target. Mucling the rifle. This will have effects down range. It's also easy to get the rifle off on an angle from your body like a little green army man. This will surely change your recoil path and change things down range. Make sure your shoulders and hips are square to the bore of the rifle and relax your upper body and hips to check your natural point of aim. NPA is very critical from A bench.
I hope this helps. Let us know if you find a way to get better groups from the bench and what you did to get there.
Shooting from a bench has the same fundamentals as any other position. But, shooting from a bench is where we get lazy as a shooter and start to F things up. We have to be very conscious of our body position, recoil management and shooting process to see the same results as the prone position. Here are a few of the main issues:
Bipod loading or rearward pressure.
When shooting from a bench it's difficult to load the bipod like in the prone position. This means the rearward pressure of the grip is the primary controller of the rifle position as the bullet leaves the barrel. Small variances in rearward pressure can have different results down range. This is why benchrest shooters do a totally free recoil technique. Find a way consistently load your bipod or develop consistent rearward pressure with your grip hand.
Recoil management
Frank did a video about the differences in body position from A bench that can change your MV. If you are sitting vertical your MV can be slower and you have more body movement during recoil. This body movement can cause groups to open up. Try to have modified prone position from the bench. Slide your hipps more rearward, lean more forward into your rifle and use more body weight to control recoil.
Cheek weld
A lot of guys on A bench want to break their cheek weld between shots to run the bolt or because they are single feeding the rifle. Keep your face in the gun for your string of shots to maintain sight picture and sight alignment. I.e. the same view through the scope for each shot. If you break your cheek weld you will change your eye's alignment with the scope.
Natural point of aim
It's harder to maintain natural point of aim while sitting on a bench. It's very easy to flex your hips or torso to manipulate the rifle sights onto the target. Mucling the rifle. This will have effects down range. It's also easy to get the rifle off on an angle from your body like a little green army man. This will surely change your recoil path and change things down range. Make sure your shoulders and hips are square to the bore of the rifle and relax your upper body and hips to check your natural point of aim. NPA is very critical from A bench.
I hope this helps. Let us know if you find a way to get better groups from the bench and what you did to get there.
I am new to this site and have a question. Do you want to apply rearward pressure AND load the bipod or apply rearward pressure OR load the bipod?
I found a Sniper's Hide video that suggests applying the same amount of rearward pressure in pounds as the rifle weight. My rifle with bipod weighs 14.5#, so I tried picking up a 15# dumbbell before building my shooting position, but it hasn't worked well for me yet.
I tend to shoot much better if I relax and apply light rearward pressure if any when both shooting prone and off the bench. I apply just enough rearward pressure to keep the rifle from bouncing off my shoulder during recoil. It's almost as if I get behind the rifle and use what I would describe as using a free recoil technique. Sub 1-1/2" groups at 300 yards are common using this technique, but I know the rifle will do better. Applying more pressure increases my sight wobble.
I square up behind the rifle, so the muzzle doesn't move laterally during recoil which works really well. I just don't have the rearward pressure or bipod loading mastered yet.
This old iron sight rifle shooter needs a little help.
Loading the bipod should not create pressure between your shoulder and the bipod. Loading the bipod is terrible way to put it because it gives the wrong mental image. Taking the slack out of bipod, is loading the bipod. Leaning into the bipod, creating pressure against your shoulder, is not how you are supposed to load the bipod.
If its any consolation, I shoot like shit off a bench as well.
As luck would have it, I have zero need to shoot off a bench, so I never worked on my technique to fix it. I shoot everything prone or from barricades, tripods, etc for PRS.
If given a bench top or spool or similar structure at a match, I shoot a "modified prone". Essentially standing bent over. This is from the PRS Rimfire Finale in Texas a few weeks back.
As luck would have it, I have zero need to shoot off a bench, so I never worked on my technique to fix it. I shoot everything prone or from barricades, tripods, etc for PRS.
If given a bench top or spool or similar structure at a match, I shoot a "modified prone". Essentially standing bent over. This is from the PRS Rimfire Finale in Texas a few weeks back.
You just hit on what I have been doing to load the bipod. I stopped leaning into the bipod on the last trip to the range, because it was inducing more scope crosshair wobble on target.
Taking the slack out of the bipod makes more sense. I apply rearward pressure to push the rifle into my shoulder at about 1/3 the weight of the rifle. That's something else I need to work on.
I swear the biggest improvement I saw was when I started doing the "pull the rifle into your shoulder with the same amount of force it takes to hold the rifle vertically with one hand"... If the rifle weighs 15 lbs, that's how much force you use rearwards.
Frank did a video - start @ 8:30:
Frank did a video - start @ 8:30:
Go to SH Lowlight on YouTube and search "recoil management" - tons of great info from the grand poobah hisself.
And then practice practice practice - dry fire in the living room counts.
And when you're done practicing? Practice some more
Putting it all together, consistently seems to be my bugaboo. Some days I'm like "I am so freaking awesome!!!!", and the next trip out I'm ready to sell everything and take up latch hook rug crafts
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