Night Vision What IR Illuminator/White Light for Carbine? + Dual switch

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Scwalker83

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Sep 13, 2019
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#1
If this is the wrong forum for this, sorry. It seemed like the most relevant.

I've been looking at a few and I'm not sure my Google stuff is up to snuff. I'm pretty new to NV stuff. Picked up WP PVS-23 and trying to get a carbine configured for it.

So far I have the carbine w/ Trij MRO & DBAL I2 & YHM Turbo K DT. I'd like to round it out with a white light & IR light. Being quite new to NV, I should not shoot unsuppressed while NV is on?

Any opinions - Surefire M720V & Surefire 640V? Something else? Something better? Something that's less money but as good?

Surefire Dual plug switch vs TAPS SYNC?

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
 
#2
You can shoot unsuppressed, it's just nicer not too. What kinda stuff do you want this rifle for? Knowing that will change my suggestion for lights and switches. Generally I prefer very standard pressure switches. They are consumable products with hard use and break so spending less money is nice. Additionally, I like to be able to activate both at the same time, or one or the other. You can kinda do that with the TAPS Sync, but I feel more comfortable managing a laser switch at the 12 o clock and a light switch at the 430.
 
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#4
If it's just for close range, something like the surefire 640v is fine. I misread and thought you said pvs 27, but if you were hunting at longer ranges, a nicer illuminator would be nice.

The surefire is definitely the gold standard, but i liked the insight lights a lot because the white setting was in the middle. Made it really hard to ND a white light, whereas the SF lights you have to remember if white is clock wise or counter clockwise (i still can't remember) cause off is in the middle
 
#5
@Scwalker83 Yeah you can shoot away your heart content with NV and no suppressor. No issues there.

Ok, so your Dbal I2. Is it a Vis Point and IR Point or is it an IR Point and IR Illuminator version. Makes some difference as to how I would advise your options.
 
#6
WhereNow&How said:
@Scwalker83 Yeah you can shoot away your heart content with NV and no suppressor. No issues there.

Ok, so your Dbal I2. Is it a Vis Point and IR Point or is it an IR Point and IR Illuminator version. Makes some difference as to how I would advise your options.
Click to expand...

It's a Visible laser, IR Laser, and I want something that has a white light option and IR option.

@jeffl838 Could you give me some examples of what role you think certains units would be optimal and what their downsides in other roles might be?
 
#7
Scwalker83 said:
It's a Visible laser, IR Laser, and I want something that has a white light option and IR option.

@jeffl838 Could you give me some examples of what role you think certains units would be optimal and what their downsides in other roles might be?
Click to expand...
It wouldn't be crazy to want a super bright IR illuminator with far throw for your head mounted nvg's. You would need one if you had something like a pvs27 or pvs30. The Luna ELIR 3 I think is the commercially available gold standard for this right now. I've never used it, but am kinda interested in getting one since you can get them to work with SF pressure switches.

There are some crazy bright white lights out there that'll let you positively identify targets out to several hundred meters. I've never needed this, so I haven't read into this. I think the super bright surefires will do this, and I've read the name modlite around the forums before.

Some people run two lights on their gun, one IR one white, because they want both to be super strong. It sounds like you'll be fine with a combo light though

Having a helmet mounted illuminator is super nice. I personally like the surefire m1 a lot, but the insight WML is nice too since the vis/ir switch is a lever and it has a tacticle lock out lever.

I don't know if there are any downsides to having it and not needing it, I just don't like having a ton of stuff on my gun. The less the merrier ha
 
#8
So on a Civi LAM such as the Dbal's I am partial to taking a "tuned" Luna Elir-3 (on left in picture) and slaving it to the Dbal so that you basically have a full power Laser based Diode Illuminator that will get on out there like it should. It is perfectly matched power wise to work perfect with you 0.7 mW IR Point on the Dbal I2.

To slave a Luna ELIR-3 all you need is a Luna/Surefire Adapter, Surefire Socket Tailcap and make the marriage via a Unity Taps Sync. One press of the Unity Taps Sync will activate your IR Point and Full Power Luna IR Illuminator.

You do that and your Dbal I2 Civi unit will walk all over a MAWL distance wise for performance. Much cleaner Illuminator beam than the MAWL also.

That is a Dbal A3 in the picture. I like for my white light to be a separate item unless it is on rig running a Dbal A3 and I slave it into the Vis Point Override Port such that with one press of a button I have instant white light and Green Vis Point.


1586924096089.png
 
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#9
WhereNow&How said:
So on a Civi LAM such as the Dbal's I am partial to taking a "tuned" Luna Elir-3 (on left in picture) and slaving it to the Dbal so that you basically have a full power Laser based Diode Illuminator that will get on out there like it should. It is perfectly matched power wise to work perfect with you 0.7 mW IR Point on the Dbal I2.

To slave a Luna ELIR-3 all you need is a Luna/Surefire Adapter, Surefire Socket Tailcap and make the marriage via a Unity Taps Sync. One press of the Unity Taps Sync will activate your IR Point and Full Power Luna IR Illuminator.

You do that and your Dbal I2 Civi unit will walk all over a MAWL distance wise for performance. Much cleaner Illuminator beam than the MAWL also.

That is a Dbal A3 in the picture. I like for my white light to be a separate item unless it is on rig running a Dbal A3 and I slave it into the Vis Point Override Port such that with one press of a button I have instant white light and Green Vis Point.


View attachment 7298935
Click to expand...
Do you have the ELIR on an offset mount? Or is it just picatinny on your 9 o clock rail? I've been wanting one and I think talking about it like this is gonna make me pull the trigger lol
 
#10
Without getting too off in the weeds. Understanding what a real Illuminator should be capable of doing is lighting up targets in all kind of Photonic situations such as Photonic Barriers etc etc. The Luna ELIR-3 with its Variable Power Rheostat Nob lets you quickly adjust the power of the Illuminator from 0 mW to 70 mW and combined with the ability to quickly adjust the beam width from narrow to wide, will enable a user to handle every situation you will realistically encounter out there and is the single biggest thing that will make a system really perform at night under NODS.
 
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#12
jeffl838 said:
Do you have the ELIR on an offset mount? Or is it just picatinny on your 9 o clock rail? I've been wanting one and I think talking about it like this is gonna make me pull the trigger lol
Click to expand...
I have cheap ass Chinese 45 degree mounts that I put on my DD Ris II rails that will lay the Luna's and Surefire Scouts right up nice and tight beside the Dbal A3's. Makes for a pretty snug and clean setup.


1586926646442.png


1586926741128.png
 
#13
Scwalker83 said:
@WhereNow&How Thanks! Luna ELIR3 looks like the way to go. Little confused about the technicals of slaving it via TAPS SYNC but that seems like the way to go and obviously you've done it.
Click to expand...
Be SURE to get an elir3 not an eir3, easy to do. One is led based, the first is laser. I just hot an elir3 and about to play with it. I also have a $60 led ir flashlight off Amazon that lights up better then the eir3 and way more focusable beam. Real wide to real narrow. Ill see if i can find it online.

real world testing starts tomorrow, maybe i can get pics? That’ll be tough for me.
 
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#14
#15
Here is a Luna ELIR-3 doing its thang at 1,000 yards.

Its good for much further than that if need be. Or it is great at 50 yards dialed back. However, it is always nice to have an Illuminator that will let you see what is going on in the next County if you want to.

Get a 3x or better yet 5x Magnifier for your NODS and if you want to positive ID something slap the 5X Magnifier on your NODS and light that sucker up with a Luna.

1586927251408.png
 
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#16
Jgunner said:
I also have a $60 led ir flashlight off Amazon that lights up better then the eir3 and way more focusable beam. Real wide to real narrow. Ill see if i can find it online.
Click to expand...

Yeah I have plenty of them as well. However, they are not purpose driven to pair up with a Dbal or LAM anywhere near like a Luna ELIR-3. A Luna ELIR-3 combined with the Luna/Surefire Adapter is the only viable Illuminator to properly slave to a LAM. It is small, powerful, relatively low cost and can run off of rechargeable CR 123 batteries which will extend the run time of your Dbal tremendously because all your Dbal is powering is the IR Point dot.

However, those Chinese LED IR Illuminators make one of the best helmet lights for general illumination and if you put a 950 nm Pass Filter in front of them you can kill that huge red glow they throw out and turn it into a true stealth light that cannot be seen via human or animal eyes.

I personally really like this one. Excellent helmet light. Put a 950 nm Pass Filter on it and it is the Cats Meow for stealth IR light with Zero red emitter glow for animals or humans to be able to see.

Evolva T20

Amazon.com: EVOLVA FUTURE TECHNOLOGY T20 IR 850nm IR Light Illuminator Infrared Led Flashlight 38mm Lens IR Torch for Long Rang Night Vision Scope Hunting (Torch and Tail Switch Package): Sports & Outdoors

Amazon.com: EVOLVA FUTURE TECHNOLOGY T20 IR 850nm IR Light Illuminator Infrared Led Flashlight 38mm Lens IR Torch for Long Rang Night Vision Scope Hunting (Torch and Tail Switch Package): Sports & Outdoors
www.amazon.com
 
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#17
WhereNow&How said:
Yeah I have plenty of them as well. However, they are not purpose driven to pair up with a Dbal or LAM anywhere near like a Luna ELIR-3. A Luna ELIR-3 combined with the Luna/Surefire Adapter is the only viable Illuminator to properly slave to a LAM. It is small, powerful, relatively low cost and can run off of rechargeable CR 123 batteries which will extend the run time of your Dbal tremendously because all your Dbal is powering is the IR Point dot.

However, those Chinese LED IR Illuminators make one of the best helmet lights for general illumination and if you put a 950 nm Pass Filter in front of them you can kill that huge red glow they throw out and turn it into a true stealth light that cannot be seen via human or animal eyes.

I personally really like this one. Excellent helmet light. Put a 950 nm Pass Filter on it and it is the Cats Meow for stealth IR light with Zero red emitter glow for animals or humans to be able to see.

Evolva T20

Amazon.com: EVOLVA FUTURE TECHNOLOGY T20 IR 850nm IR Light Illuminator Infrared Led Flashlight 38mm Lens IR Torch for Long Rang Night Vision Scope Hunting (Torch and Tail Switch Package): Sports & Outdoors

Amazon.com: EVOLVA FUTURE TECHNOLOGY T20 IR 850nm IR Light Illuminator Infrared Led Flashlight 38mm Lens IR Torch for Long Rang Night Vision Scope Hunting (Torch and Tail Switch Package): Sports & Outdoors
www.amazon.com
Click to expand...
Ha! Thats the light i have! And I didn’t even have to hunt for the link. Thanks!

funny you say its not suited for a weapon light but better for a helmet. Thats what ive been sourcing parts to do!

What pass filter did you use? The red glow is killing me!
 
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#19
#20
Jgunner said:
How does it adhere or stay on the front of the light?
Click to expand...

So you unscrew the slip on adapter off the back of a USGI 3X Magnifier. Screw the filter into the front of the adapter where the threads are. Then take a small piece of bicycle inter-tube and put around the back piece for a shim which will now slip very snugly in the inside bezel of the Evolva. Then take another bigger piece of Bicycle inter-tube and put over the whole front assembly and you are good to go. Works perfect. And if you want to you can unscrew the Zomei 950 pass filter in and out if you want to unleash the full power of the Evolva.

For me, I always leave the 950 Pass Filter installed. I can still get out to 300 yards and illuminate very well that a Gen 3 tube can see. Theoretically you are getting at the end of the wave lengths that a Gen 3 device is supposed to see, but like I said, it does very well for me with Omni 7 Gen 3 tubes.

With this set up there is Zero visible red glow able to be seen from the LED emitter. :)

1586962316727.png
 
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