What is wrong with manufacturers?

[George Az]

Do you ever wonder why it is so hard to get an item? I lived in California and through the AWB in the 90's, more than one of us thought how nice it would be to have a bolt action which fed off an AR magazine - so this was almost 20 years ago. If my dumb ass could think of it then and there were rumors of conversions, it took Mossberg almost 20 years to bring one to production. And no one else has done so since......... While I am at it, Could somebody please make a 5 round A/R mag and sell it for like only $20.00?!!!!

You ever wonder why manu's can't make a cheap bolt action rifle .223/5.56 rifle with a 1/7 or 1/8 twist? Yes, one can get one, but one has to hunt and it is still far more common to find the old 1/12 twist. One in 10 is a band aid, like 1 in 9 and the second tier A/R manu's who follow suit are to blame too. Why can't they fix the chamber issue and just use the 5.56 Wylde and be done with it.....

The last two Wallyworld Remington 700's were cheaper out the door with tax than gun show rejects or actions from Brownells ($375.00 from Walmart at the time complete) I sold or threw away the triggers, stocks, scopes and mounts. Then the barrels went too. Hey Remington - how about a $300 action??? Idiots.

Ruger's new bolt action .22 either feeds off the 10/22 magazine, or it doesn't. I have read it in publications it does, but I have also read it is proprietary and yet similar to the 10/22 mag. Great job there....I can't wait to go shooting with someone who screws this exchange up.....

Why no one but Savage makes a reasonably priced .22 bolt gun. Try and find a CZ - like hens teeth in my area. Even drove down to Phoenix.
How about a .22 cal bolt action rifle, no scope, adjustable trigger, wood or plastic stock - with common magazines for $400 please. Make the scope mount holes the same distance as a 10/22 or maybe a 700 short action so anything common could be used.

Hey Savage - the Axis is an OK rifle - fix the damn trigger.....Hey Remington - that plastic stock sucks...Hey Winchester give us a .22 with a 5 and 10 round magazine I am sure somewhere the blueprints are around for the old 52, with today's tech you could do it again.......

While I am at it - an American made scope, nuthin fancy 4 x 16 x 44 mildot, A/O for 1K.

I must be dreamin.

 

[BoilerUP]

I agree with 5rd magazines...shouldn't be that hard or expensive for Magpul to put a 5rd limiter in a Pmag10. I'm guessing it is exceedingly low on their priority list, however. Come to think of it, anybody with a little epoxy and some dowel rod can do it themselves in just a few minutes...

Ruger's American Rimfire bolt action takes 10/22 magazines and can be found for $250-275. If one isn't available locally, buy one online and have it shipped to a local FFL for transfer.

Savage "fixed" the Axis trigger via putting an Accutrigger on the Axis II. Which has lead to the elimination of the Stevens 200, which was actually worth a damn for people that wanted to build their own rifle...unlike the Axis which has substantially less aftermarket than even the marginal Savage centerfeed aftermarket.

Also, why would you want a "cheap" bolt action rifle that has a 1:7 twist but uses AR mags? If you wanted to run 75-90gr bullets to take advantage of a Wylde chamber and fast twist, you won't be loading them at AR mag length anyway and a 1:9 shoots 77gr SMKs (which work great at AR mag length) just fine. I guess it would be more versatile in that you could "plink" with AR mag length ammo and single-feed VLD heavies for longer range shooting...

 

[Twisted .308]

George , get your CZ here ....best prices anywhere and if you don't see what you want call him ! Whittaker Guns

 

[steve123]

Oh the assbackwardsness of it all!

I feel like griping too, LOL.

For the life of me I can't figure out why every rifle manufacturer doesn't have a 8 twist 243, 260, 6.5CM??? Or make their own bottom metal ready to accept AI mags.

Or why all scope companies don't design into their scopes 10Y parallax and a good christmas tree reticle without numbers right next to the vertical crosshair.

Or why 5.56 and 7.62 are our military cartridges. IMO, 6.5G about .200" longer and necked down to 25 cal/1/4" bore would have been perfect.

Or...

 

[milo 2.0]

You're way too practical George!

The comment about the Model 52 and it's mags cracked me up.
I had a Model 52B, the Jap made gun, it was nice, new, gave it to a young friend for his boys. I had found 1 spare mag years ago, long search, paid close to 100.00 for it. Went over to his house one day, the spare mag is sitting on his garage work bench. Not being a "gun" guy, it took some persuading for him to realize the consequences of loosing the mags.

I haven't looked for more in 12 years, but I'm sure it would be as fruitless as looking for a 788 mag!

 

[Michael]

Sounds as though you found a perfect niche in which to become " the manufacturer".

Easy to complain..........hard to do.

 

[shoot4fun]

Why can't I get a brand new Ferrari for $25,000?
Why can't I just go to my local liquor store and buy Pappy for $40 a bottle?
Why does Remington even put barrels on the R700? They know I'm just going to pay someone to take that sorry shit off and replace it.
Why can't gun makers make guns just like I want them? They know I'll buy one!
Why can't gun makers make guns for states that change their f'kn rules every time a gun can comply?
Why would anyone build it exactly like you want it so you could just get on a forum and tell them "well, at least it's close to what I really wanted"?
I guess those questions all sound logical if you a cry baby.
Sorry, but I guess my skin is just a little bit thin about this shit.

 

[shoot4fun]

Sounds as though you found a perfect niche in which to become " the manufacturer".

Easy to complain..........hard to do.

Very well said!!!

 

[Veer_G]

 

[George Az]

Why can't I get a brand new Ferrari for $25,000?
Why can't I just go to my local liquor store and buy Pappy for $40 a bottle?
Why does Remington even put barrels on the R700? They know I'm just going to pay someone to take that sorry shit off and replace it.
Why can't gun makers make guns just like I want them? They know I'll buy one!
Why can't gun makers make guns for states that change their f'kn rules every time a gun can comply?
Why would anyone build it exactly like you want it so you could just get on a forum and tell them "well, at least it's close to what I really wanted"?
I guess those questions all sound logical if you a cry baby.
Sorry, but I guess my skin is just a little bit thin about this shit.

Questions answered in order-

1. A Ferrari is a work of art and state of the art. Not comparable. One can get a Corvette which is a really nice car for a lot less and yet comparable in performance. I can buy great tires from several manu's readily and they are not hard to find, like certain magazines and bottom metal. I know a Cooper and Anshutz are works of art - I wasn't griping about their price.

2. Pappy is arguable. I know a guy with a still - its pretty good after the second glass..... Some of Pappy's issue is it got popular.

3. I don't know why Remington won't sell an action - seems like a reasonable profit maker especially on their less expensive 700's

4. I am not asking for them. I like building them. My primary complaint about rifles is barrel twist and .22 cal rifles which would seem a no brainer.

5. The Game Wardens are going to want to check the magazines where I am. A 5 rounder will stop the issue in place.

Not crying brother - everybody is building AR's and 1911 - one can finally get magazines!

The Winchester 52 is one awesome .22. Last I checked, Winchester went through Chapter 11 or some shit. I realy felt bad to see them go, but I don't own a Winchester less than 50 years old. Is it that hard? They own the blueprints and the name - they could do it again!

If you can't get parts for something, I ain't bitchen, you either make it yourself, have it made or it don't work. I love Brownells for stepping up. I love Wilson Mags for my 1911's icluding 9mm mags and .45 mags - they work.

I get it, I do. I support those who support us. I am really trying to buy Made in the USA. White Boots cost more than Chinese boots - but the product is really good. And here is the deal - they aren't that much more than the Chinese copies.

 

[pawprint2]

Bud's Gun Shop has CZ 22 starting at $370.00, they publish their prices and have "in stock" or "out of stock" with each weapon. I for one, hate the "call for price and availability" type sellers. In todays world, if you're going to be an online seller, get a program that can keep up with your inventory and pricing.....

 

[yellowXJ]

Because most consumers just flat out don't care about that stuff and manufacturers are optimizing efficiency, profitability, and pumping out products that meet the needs of 80%+ of the masses?

 

[shoot4fun]

George,
Your response makes little sense.
The only way to truly know the answers to your questions/complaints is to, as Michael states above, become a manufacturer. I worked for a manufacturer for the last seven years and, although recently retired, I still do some work for them. Until you have then you don't know how things are. Mine was a publicly traded company and that made how new concepts were treated even more difficult (stock holders & board members).

 

[nashlaw]

Because most consumers just flat out don't care about that stuff and manufacturers are optimizing efficiency, profitability, and pumping out products that meet the needs of 80%+ of the masses?

Exactly. I doubt regular Hide members make up much of the firearms market. I have many friends a couple of counties away that have oodles of nice factory guns, but probably have no idea what the twist rate is on the 22-250 their father left them. They do their own S&W trigger jobs and put a dab of Accraglass behind a recoil lug, but that is about it. They cringe when i tell them there are scopes besides Leupold and would crap a hot brick if i told them how much i paid for that McMillan A3.

In popular parlance, we are the 1%.

 

[KYpatriot]

Why can't I get a brand new Ferrari for $25,000?
Why can't I just go to my local liquor store and buy Pappy for $40 a bottle?
Why does Remington even put barrels on the R700? They know I'm just going to pay someone to take that sorry shit off and replace it.
Why can't gun makers make guns just like I want them? They know I'll buy one!
Why can't gun makers make guns for states that change their f'kn rules every time a gun can comply?
Why would anyone build it exactly like you want it so you could just get on a forum and tell them "well, at least it's close to what I really wanted"?
I guess those questions all sound logical if you a cry baby.
Sorry, but I guess my skin is just a little bit thin about this shit.

Not the same. What the op is talking about is in many cases the manufacturers could have just as easily made a product the right way to their own advantage.

The problem is a failure to understand their own products and how they are used. The engineers are often not gun people and don't understand what their own customers need and why.

Another example....it took years to get Leupold to match the turrets to the reticles in their tactical scopes. Why? Isn't it obvious that it is inconvenient to have two different measuring systems on the same scope?

Every R&D department would be well advised to cut one engineer and hire an enthusiast to tell the remaining engineers when they miss the point.

 

[shoot4fun]

Every R&D department would be well advised to cut one engineer and hire an enthusiast to tell the remaining engineers when they miss the point.

My company does not have an engineer that is NOT an enthusiast. I have shot some pretty intense matches with most of these guys and they are hard core. It would be offensive to them to read your statement. We need more engineers to get those new products that you do want to market in a more expedient fashion. My company has many new and exciting products laying on a shelf for lack of engineering.
The real issue, perhaps, is at the BOD table. most of those guys are LAWYERS and play golf.

As for your Leupold example, many optic companies mismatched turrets/reticles for years and many still do. That is beyond me except to say that most people outside this forum don't know the F'n difference and it has to be cheaper to build mismatched scopes.